HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:10:51 AM

You misunderstood in comment 2.
In a solid container, where the wall doesnt move, you pushing on it also doesnt move it.
The wall is solid enough to resist.
But youre still pushing.

Yep, as long as the pressure is positive, meaning contained or added to. Not when a valve is opened. Make this clear or you are arguing the same thing and you'll get the same answer.

Quote from: Themightykabool

If the wall were to suddenly crumble, you would bust outwards.

Yep, because the expansion would be immediate for that full area, pushed by the gradual but quick expansion of the gas behind and around it.

Quote from: Themightykabool

If you werent pushing, and the wall were to suddenly crumble, youd be standing there not moving.

Yes no?

If you weren't pushing even when the wall wasn't crumbling you're still not pushing when it does, which means you would be in an empty tank or an equalised tank with external atmosphere.

You need to clarify whatever it is you're trying to get across.

Ugh
If you were leaning on a wall for support.
Youre leaning very happily.
The wal were to suddeningly crumble.
You fall through.
Because you wwre leaning and then suddwnly lose support.

If you werent leaning
You wouldnt magically fall through unless you decided to lean.
So the gas, pressing on the gauge, even though the back is open is false accordig to you.
The is moving out the back, is NOT pressing on the gauge - however, in movies and in realife, whne the internal pressure exceeds the container you see rivets popping off, gauges hissing and busting off, actual tears in solid metal forming as the gasses rush out.

Guess what point im trying to make.
Possibly the same point everyones been arguing with you for the last 10pg.

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:20:31 AM

In the case of the airfilled crazy arm thing.
The fan provides a continuous supply if new air and maintains pressurization.
This pressure is seen by the fact the flexible tube is expanded.
When tge fan momentarily turns off, rhe tube rapidly loses the pressure as it equalizes with the outside air.
This proves you wrong and proves what stash is saying - gasses exerrt pressure in all directions, always.

It actually proves me right.
Where is the air loss?

The air is flying out the top of his head and ends of his arm.
It proves you wrong because its an open end yet the sides/ body are pressurized - they hold shape, they are puffed out.
You lose.

Ok then
So you failed to make the logical connection.
Lets finish the thought.

The stack pushes the rocket up.

Nope.
The expanded gas from the rocket (the burn in this case) compresses the stack down by that burning thrust and the resulting super compression now expanding back against what was expanded into it to compress it, crates the gas fight that the rocket sits atop of.

There is a force on the bottom side of the rpcket created by the gas.

A force emanating from the nozzle by expansion (burn).

That means the gas is oushing on the rocket even though the bottom is open.

No. The gas is pushing on and into the external stack resistance by expanding into it to super compress it.

That means the gas IS PUSHING on the rocket even though...
That means the GAS IS PUSHIN UP, the oppoiste direction of the hole.
That menas theres pressure on the opposite side of the hole.
That means...?

It means it's a gas on gas fight with consistent action and reaction of  compression to expansion from the rocket, to super compression and expansion of the atmosphere.
The rocket merely sits on this gas fight.

The presure gauge is not sentient either.
It doesnt know its moving in a specific direction.
Unless you claim otherwise?

You keep mentioning sentient. Try and leave it out so you don;t waste your time.

"Failure to shut down a valve renders the gauge as a negative, pressure wise. No gas is pushing positively into that gauge."

So althoug in reality a gauge shows positive vlaues in a set (aka negative rate 100, 99, 98...) in your statement above there is no gas pushing on the gauge.

It's now resisting the gauge piston and spring. It is not applying positive pressure.

In order for the rocket to sit on this fight, to point out the obvious that avoids you - rocket be sitting on the gas!?
Yes no?
The rocket is sitting on sometjing?
That soemthing is made up of gas?
The gas you say isnt pushing agaiinst the inside of the tube because the bottom is open?

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:32:08 AM

The presure gauge is not sentient either.
It doesnt know its moving in a specific direction.
Unless you claim otherwise?

You keep mentioning sentient. Try and leave it out so you don;t waste your time.

Quote from: Themightykabool

"Failure to shut down a valve renders the gauge as a negative, pressure wise. No gas is pushing positively into that gauge."

So althoug in reality a gauge shows positive vlaues in a set (aka negative rate 100, 99, 98...) in your statement above there is no gas pushing on the gauge.

It's now resisting the gauge piston and spring. It is not applying positive pressure.

You keep telling us that the gas chooses between going out the back and only pushing when a door becomes available.
But - pushing does not equal moving.

In this case
You say the gauge knows when the rate is increasing or decreasing.
Positive rate vs negative rate.

So it is your theory that keeps promoting sentient gas/ pressure gauges.
Sorry.
If you want us to stop saying it, fix your theory.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 20, 2019, 04:16:33 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:20:31 AM

In the case of the airfilled crazy arm thing.
The fan provides a continuous supply if new air and maintains pressurization.
This pressure is seen by the fact the flexible tube is expanded.
When tge fan momentarily turns off, rhe tube rapidly loses the pressure as it equalizes with the outside air.
This proves you wrong and proves what stash is saying - gasses exerrt pressure in all directions, always.

It actually proves me right.
Where is the air loss?

The airbis flying iut the top of his head and ends of his arm.
Ut proves you wrong because its an open end yet the sides are pressurized.
You lose.

I am interested to hear from sceptimatic how this is possible.

Hah
I will have to go back and fix my typos.

Hah
I will have to go back and fix my typos.

That was pretty dyslexic, yes

Quote from: Macarios on November 19, 2019, 12:01:46 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 19, 2019, 10:01:34 AM

At around 10:20 it fills with smoke. Do you know what that means?

It means the same as existence of the exhaust behind the rocket engine in Moon orbit.
If rocket can push off air, it can also push off that exhaust.

No it can't.

How exiting gas makes the decision to push against one gas and not against another gas?

Yep, as long as the pressure is positive, meaning contained or added to.

No, meaning note negative.
Again, the rate has no effect on if the value is positive or negative.
Stop pretending it does and start speaking English.

You need to clarify whatever it is you're trying to get across.

No clarification is needed, it is really quite simple.
If you stand next to a wall doing nothing and the wall collapses, you stay standing there (unless you decide to run).
But if you push or lean against a wall, and the wall falls, you move towards where the wall was.

Without pushing against (or towards) the wall, you have no reason to move towards it when it breaks.
The same applies to your gas.
If the gas is all moving away from a wall and not pushing against it, if that wall breaks there is no reason for the gas to suddenly start moving out.

But if the gas was always pushing outwards in all directions, pushing against the wall, then when it breaks, it will move outwards.

Hence the real model of gases which includes the fact that they push outwards in all directions at all times can explain this simple scenario, while your nonsense does not.

Where is the air loss?

Out the multitude of openings.
They will typically have at least 3, 1 for each arm and 1 for the head.
At no point was it ever enclosed, yet the pressure still acts on it to keep it "inflated".

So no, it proves you wrong.
You not liking that and claiming it proves you right doesn't mean it does. It just means you are rejecting reality yet again.

The expanded gas from the rocket (the burn in this case) compresses the stack down by that burning thrust and the resulting super compression now expanding back against what was expanded into it to compress it, crates the gas fight that the rocket sits atop of.

Again, this is pure nonsense.
How do you magically get the gas below more compressed?
The most compressed it will be is in the throat of the nozzle.

The rocket merely sits on this gas fight.

If the rocket merely sat on top, it would sit there going no where.
In order for the rocket to go upwards there must be a force acting on it pushing it up.

You keep mentioning sentient. Try and leave it out so you don;t waste your time.

The only waste of time here is you.
The simple fact is the way you have described your gas makes it appear sentient.
Normally gas tries to move outwards in all directions, pushing outwards in all directions.
But you claim for some reason it just magically stops doing that and instead just peacefully moves towards an opening.
But then if a new opening forms, without even pushing against it it somehow knows that it should turn around and move towards that opening.
This requires the gas to be sentient or be a highly advanced program.

Back in reality, the gas is not sentient. Instead it s just always pushing outwards in all directions.
And that works fine at explains so much, without contradicting itself or appealing to nonsense like sentient gas.

It's now resisting the gauge piston and spring

HOW?
Is it applying a force to the gauge? If so, that is applying a positive pressure to it.
Otherwise, it can't resist.
Again, speak English.
It is providing a decreasing, positive pressure.
The pressure being decreasing does not mean the value is not positive.

Again, there is no actual conundrum.
There is just you blatantly rejecting reality and making up new meanings for words.

The simple fact is all the available evidence shows that gases push outwards in all directions.
You have literally nothing to indicate otherwise.
Instead all you have is wild speculation based upon nothing, which requires so many contradictions and insane nonsense to try and prop up your fantasy.
And all of it is based upon a rejection of reality. You want Earth to be flat, so you feel a need to reject the reality of rockets working in a vacuum which clearly shows Earth is round, so you need to invent a whole new branch of physics with sentient gas to try and stop rockets working in a vacuum. But all you have done is gone down a path of pure insanity claiming positive numbers aren't positive and repeatedly contradicting yourself.

All while avoiding very simple questions which directly expose these contradictions.
Until you have consistent answers for all these questions which actually address the issue, you have nothing.
Again:
What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move (which isn't the rocket and which the rocket can't push against)?
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?

And as a bonus question, just what evidence at all do you have that gas works the way you claim rather than the way mainstream science has shown it does?

Ok Boomer. The Earth is Round. Begone THOT!

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:32:08 AM

The presure gauge is not sentient either.
It doesnt know its moving in a specific direction.
Unless you claim otherwise?

You keep mentioning sentient. Try and leave it out so you don;t waste your time.

Quote from: Themightykabool

"Failure to shut down a valve renders the gauge as a negative, pressure wise. No gas is pushing positively into that gauge."

So althoug in reality a gauge shows positive vlaues in a set (aka negative rate 100, 99, 98...) in your statement above there is no gas pushing on the gauge.

It's now resisting the gauge piston and spring. It is not applying positive pressure.

Unfortunately for your theory that is not how pressure gauges are designed, manufactured and used. Pressure reading on a gauge is there because pressure is being applied. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0. In other words, pressure gauges the world over would have to be redesigned to work with your theory. They would have to be redesigned to show a pressure reading when no pressure is applied. So, sorry, the world's gauges do not currently support your theory.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 20, 2019, 04:37:55 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:32:08 AM

The presure gauge is not sentient either.
It doesnt know its moving in a specific direction.
Unless you claim otherwise?

You keep mentioning sentient. Try and leave it out so you don;t waste your time.

Quote from: Themightykabool

"Failure to shut down a valve renders the gauge as a negative, pressure wise. No gas is pushing positively into that gauge."

So althoug in reality a gauge shows positive vlaues in a set (aka negative rate 100, 99, 98...) in your statement above there is no gas pushing on the gauge.

It's now resisting the gauge piston and spring. It is not applying positive pressure.

You keep telling us that the gas chooses between going out the back and only pushing when a door becomes available.
But - pushing does not equal moving.

In this case
You say the gauge knows when the rate is increasing or decreasing.
Positive rate vs negative rate.

So it is your theory that keeps promoting sentient gas/ pressure gauges.
Sorry.
If you want us to stop saying it, fix your theory.

Nothing wrong with my theory. Fix your own answers because it's only you that's creating your own issues in arguing for sentient.
You're told time and time again that the gas is compressed and just like a spring or a sponge or a ball or anything else that's compressed....it will decompress if allowed to. Not because it's sentient.

Understand this and you can then omit it from your typing and save yourself the extra pointless waste of your own time. Unless you're happy to keep typing it. I'm fine if you do but I will not be answering to it from this point on.

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 04:23:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 20, 2019, 04:16:33 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:20:31 AM

In the case of the airfilled crazy arm thing.
The fan provides a continuous supply if new air and maintains pressurization.
This pressure is seen by the fact the flexible tube is expanded.
When tge fan momentarily turns off, rhe tube rapidly loses the pressure as it equalizes with the outside air.
This proves you wrong and proves what stash is saying - gasses exerrt pressure in all directions, always.

It actually proves me right.
Where is the air loss?

The airbis flying iut the top of his head and ends of his arm.
Ut proves you wrong because its an open end yet the sides are pressurized.
You lose.

I am interested to hear from sceptimatic how this is possible.

The question was answered in the question.

How exiting gas makes the decision to push against one gas and not against another gas?

Compression by applied energy and decompression by allowing that energy to be released again to allow expansion.
See above.

If the rocket merely sat on top, it would sit there going no where.

And it would go nowhere if it didn't lose mass, which is does in abundance, allowing it to sit higher and higher until it has no more mass to lose.

In order for the rocket to go upwards there must be a force acting on it pushing it up.

There are two forces.
The force created by the exiting gas which is burned to create the massive expansion into atmosphere to super compress that atmosphere in that stack and for the decompression of that stack to regain it's equilibrium but can't regain it wholly because of the consistent expansion of those rocket gases burning/thrusting into it, so it becomes a gas fight.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 20, 2019, 04:37:55 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:32:08 AM

The presure gauge is not sentient either.
It doesnt know its moving in a specific direction.
Unless you claim otherwise?

You keep mentioning sentient. Try and leave it out so you don;t waste your time.

Quote from: Themightykabool

"Failure to shut down a valve renders the gauge as a negative, pressure wise. No gas is pushing positively into that gauge."

So althoug in reality a gauge shows positive vlaues in a set (aka negative rate 100, 99, 98...) in your statement above there is no gas pushing on the gauge.

It's now resisting the gauge piston and spring. It is not applying positive pressure.

Unfortunately for your theory that is not how pressure gauges are designed, manufactured and used. Pressure reading on a gauge is there because pressure is being applied. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0. In other words, pressure gauges the world over would have to be redesigned to work with your theory. They would have to be redesigned to show a pressure reading when no pressure is applied. So, sorry, the world's gauges do not currently support your theory.

My theory is pretty sound, as far as I'm concerned.
All you've just done is state the obvious of applied pressure and zero pressure. I'm not arguing applied or zero pressure.
Look back as to what I am arguing.

Quote from: Stash on November 20, 2019, 06:59:17 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 20, 2019, 04:37:55 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:32:08 AM

The presure gauge is not sentient either.
It doesnt know its moving in a specific direction.
Unless you claim otherwise?

You keep mentioning sentient. Try and leave it out so you don;t waste your time.

Quote from: Themightykabool

"Failure to shut down a valve renders the gauge as a negative, pressure wise. No gas is pushing positively into that gauge."

So althoug in reality a gauge shows positive vlaues in a set (aka negative rate 100, 99, 98...) in your statement above there is no gas pushing on the gauge.

It's now resisting the gauge piston and spring. It is not applying positive pressure.

Unfortunately for your theory that is not how pressure gauges are designed, manufactured and used. Pressure reading on a gauge is there because pressure is being applied. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0. In other words, pressure gauges the world over would have to be redesigned to work with your theory. They would have to be redesigned to show a pressure reading when no pressure is applied. So, sorry, the world's gauges do not currently support your theory.

My theory is pretty sound, as far as I'm concerned.
All you've just done is state the obvious of applied pressure and zero pressure. I'm not arguing applied or zero pressure.
Look back as to what I am arguing.

Again, the world's gauges aren't designed to work the way you want them to. They NEED to have pressure applied to the gauge to register a reading no matter whether the pressure is going up, going down, or stable. If there is no pressure applied, the reading is 0. The gauges won't work under your theory.

Quote from: rvlvr on November 20, 2019, 06:26:16 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 04:23:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 20, 2019, 04:16:33 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:20:31 AM

In the case of the airfilled crazy arm thing.
The fan provides a continuous supply if new air and maintains pressurization.
This pressure is seen by the fact the flexible tube is expanded.
When tge fan momentarily turns off, rhe tube rapidly loses the pressure as it equalizes with the outside air.
This proves you wrong and proves what stash is saying - gasses exerrt pressure in all directions, always.

It actually proves me right.
Where is the air loss?

The airbis flying iut the top of his head and ends of his arm.
Ut proves you wrong because its an open end yet the sides are pressurized.
You lose.

I am interested to hear from sceptimatic how this is possible.

The question was answered in the question.

Was it about the air loss? The air comes out of his arms and head. If that is what you wanted to know.

Again, the world's gauges aren't designed to work the way you want them to. They NEED to have pressure applied to the gauge to register a reading no matter whether the pressure is going up, going down, or stable. If there is no pressure applied, the reading is 0. The gauges won't work under your theory.

The gauges work exactly as you say, with pressure applied or pressure applied and held and contained.

So clearly I have zero issue with this.

The issue is in the gauge having negative pressure applied to it once there is a breach to the container or a valve opened, to me specific.

From that point on the gauge becomes the pusher against a resistant gas to that push, not the gas applying positive pressure to the actual gauge piston and spring.
This results in the piston and spring simply causing the needle to continually show a negative reading because it reads no definitive set number and not a number run to the positive.

Quote from: Stash on November 21, 2019, 12:28:43 AM

Again, the world's gauges aren't designed to work the way you want them to. They NEED to have pressure applied to the gauge to register a reading no matter whether the pressure is going up, going down, or stable. If there is no pressure applied, the reading is 0. The gauges won't work under your theory.

The gauges work exactly as you say, with pressure applied or pressure applied and held and contained.

So clearly I have zero issue with this.

The issue is in the gauge having negative pressure applied to it once there is a breach to the container or a valve opened, to me specific.

From that point on the gauge becomes the pusher against a resistant gas to that push, not the gas applying positive pressure to the actual gauge piston and spring.
This results in the piston and spring simply causing the needle to continually show a negative reading because it reads no definitive set number and not a number run to the positive.

"Resistant gas" is simply a euphemism for pressure. So when you close the valve, how does your "resistant gas" magically turn back into pressure? What's the difference?

A "negative reading" would be less than zero. Like a thermometer, "It's negative 10 degrees out, better bundle up..."

The world over relies on pressure gauges to tell them how much pressure there is in a given system, often times critical systems, whether it's going up or going down. So gauge watchers around the world should really be saying when a needle is going down, "We've got a resistant gas negative reading of 50 PSI..."? And when they slam the valve shut, "Okay, we have a positive pressure reading of 50..."?

Nothing wrong with my theory.

It is quite clear from your behaviour in this thread that there are massive problems with your theory.
You need to completely reject the meaning of words to pretend that a positive number is actually negative.
You need to repeatedly contradict yourself.
You are completely unable to answer extremely simple questions.
And you are completely unable to provide anything to back up your insane claims.

You're told time and time again that the gas is compressed and just like a spring or a sponge or a ball or anything else that's compressed....it will decompress if allowed to. Not because it's sentient.

If it was like them it would be pushing outwards in all directions.
You can easily see this with sponge balls as they push out against the wall of the container creating significant friction.
What you are claiming, where the gas magically stops pushing out in all directions and instead just marches towards the opening requires the gas to be sentient.

Understand this and then you might start to realise just how nonsensical your nonsense is.

The question was answered in the question.

Only if you admit you are wrong, as it goes directly against your explanation.
According to your pile of nonsense, the gas is just moving towards the opening and shouldn't be pushing outwards on the tube.

And it would go nowhere if it didn't lose mass

That is only an argument if you accept reality where it throwing mass backwards means it needs to move forwards, but that applies in a vacuum to.
If we instead reject reality and accept your nonsense with the rocket just sitting on top of the gas without the gas pushing it up, it should just sit there. In fact, it should actually fall to the ground.

The force created by the exiting gas which is burned to create the massive expansion

Which would also work in a vacuum.

Also, you never seemed to say what the force is.
Do you mean there is high pressure gas beneath the rocket pushing it up?

My theory is pretty sound, as far as I'm concerned.

Your fantasy having your fantasy be sound means nothing.
We have shown numerous problems with your fantasy.
It is not sound in the slightest.

If your model was correct and the gas stops pushing outwards in all directions and instead just pushes towards the opening then the gauge will extremely quickly return to 0. The fact that it doesn't shows your model is wrong.
The only way for the gauge to not extremely quickly return to 0 is for the gas to continue to exert pressure on it to balance the force from the spring.

Instead of just accepting this reality, you go down a path of pure insanity where you conflate rate and value, pretending that a negative rate somehow magically makes the value negative, and that the gas instead of applying a force to the piston is instead just "resisting" the piston, i.e. applying a force to it. It is pure insanity.

And of course, yet again you avoid very simple questions which show you are wrong. Care to answer them or admit you are wrong, or just remain silent and stop spamming your nonsense?

What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move (which isn't the rocket and which the rocket can't push against)?
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?

And as a bonus question, just what evidence at all do you have that gas works the way you claim rather than the way mainstream science has shown it does?

"Resistant gas" is simply a euphemism for pressure. So when you close the valve, how does your "resistant gas" magically turn back into pressure? What's the difference?

Think of a sink and plug hole. The plug is in and the sink is full of water.
At the top of that sink is a pressure gauge and it shows full.

You know the water is pushing against the sides of the sink and also against the bottom of the sink and also the mass of it is causing the pressure gauge to read full, for that sink.

There is positive pressure all around that sink.
Ok, now you take out the plug and you are now allowing that water to overcome the resistance to it below that plug hole and equally you know that all the water is flowing in the direction towards that plug hole.

Instead of the water pushing against the sides, it is now simply moving towards the hole as is the water from the gauge, which now sees the gauge simply following the water down by the diaphragm decompressing to lower the needle because there is now no pressure pushing against it enough to effect positive pressure.
All the positive pressure is going out of the plug hole leaving the pressure in the opposite direction, only a resistant pressure to the gauge drop.

A "negative reading" would be less than zero. Like a thermometer, "It's negative 10 degrees out, better bundle up..."

A negative reading in a sealed pressure vessel would not exist, as long as there was a pressure inside of it.

The world over relies on pressure gauges to tell them how much pressure there is in a given system, often times critical systems, whether it's going up or going down.

Yep and it works.

So gauge watchers around the world should really be saying when a needle is going down, "We've got a resistant gas negative reading of 50 PSI..."?

Nope. If it's going down there is no definitive reading until it ceases.

And when they slam the valve shut, "Okay, we have a positive pressure reading of 50..."?

Yep. That's when the pressure shows gauge positive.

Think of a sink and plug hole.

You mean where the water is still exerting pressure, even while draining?

Instead of the water pushing against the sides

No, it is still pushing against the sides.
It doesn't magically stop just because it is flowing out.
All you are doing now is replacing one false assertion with another.

Yep and it works.

Yes, based upon real physics, not your fantasy.

That's when the pressure shows gauge positive.

Again, it doesn't matter what the rate is, if the value is positive, it is positive. The rate has no effect on that.
If it shows 50 psi, it is positive.

Do you understand that?
There have plenty of examples to show that.
Why do you refuse to admit that a positive value is positive, regardless of the rate?
Do you understand the meaning of the words being used?

And again, you avoid very simple questions. These questions aren't hard to answer for mainstream physics, probably because it doesn't have a deep seeded need to deny the reality of rockets working in a vacuum.
Yet they seem impossible for you.
Again:
What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move (which isn't the rocket and which the rocket can't push against)?
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?

And as a bonus question, just what evidence at all do you have that gas works the way you claim rather than the way mainstream science has shown it does?

Quote from: rvlvr on November 20, 2019, 06:26:16 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 04:23:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 20, 2019, 04:16:33 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 20, 2019, 12:20:31 AM

In the case of the airfilled crazy arm thing.
The fan provides a continuous supply if new air and maintains pressurization.
This pressure is seen by the fact the flexible tube is expanded.
When tge fan momentarily turns off, rhe tube rapidly loses the pressure as it equalizes with the outside air.
This proves you wrong and proves what stash is saying - gasses exerrt pressure in all directions, always.

It actually proves me right.
Where is the air loss?

The airbis flying iut the top of his head and ends of his arm.
It proves you wrong because its an open end yet the sides are pressurized.
You lose.

I am interested to hear from sceptimatic how this is possible.

The question was answered in the question.

Dafuq?

Quote from: Stash on November 21, 2019, 12:57:54 AM

"Resistant gas" is simply a euphemism for pressure. So when you close the valve, how does your "resistant gas" magically turn back into pressure? What's the difference?

Think of a sink and plug hole. The plug is in and the sink is full of water.
At the top of that sink is a pressure gauge and it shows full.

You know the water is pushing against the sides of the sink and also against the bottom of the sink and also the mass of it is causing the pressure gauge to read full, for that sink.

There is positive pressure all around that sink.
Ok, now you take out the plug and you are now allowing that water to overcome the resistance to it below that plug hole and equally you know that all the water is flowing in the direction towards that plug hole.

Instead of the water pushing against the sides, it is now simply moving towards the hole as is the water from the gauge, which now sees the gauge simply following the water down by the diaphragm decompressing to lower the needle because there is now no pressure pushing against it enough to effect positive pressure.
All the positive pressure is going out of the plug hole leaving the pressure in the opposite direction, only a resistant pressure to the gauge drop.

Quote from: Stash

A "negative reading" would be less than zero. Like a thermometer, "It's negative 10 degrees out, better bundle up..."

A negative reading in a sealed pressure vessel would not exist, as long as there was a pressure inside of it.

Quote from: Stash

The world over relies on pressure gauges to tell them how much pressure there is in a given system, often times critical systems, whether it's going up or going down.

Yep and it works.

Quote from: Stash

So gauge watchers around the world should really be saying when a needle is going down, "We've got a resistant gas negative reading of 50 PSI..."?

Nope. If it's going down there is no definitive reading until it ceases.

Quote from: Stash

And when they slam the valve shut, "Okay, we have a positive pressure reading of 50..."?

Yep. That's when the pressure shows gauge positive.

Water is a fluid but it is not a gas.
Water cant expand up.

And this is nesrly exactly my example of the water jug which so "confused you" earleir.
You gauge needs to be on the bottom ot sidss of the sink/ jug.

And still shows you wrong.
The water doesnt cease to have weight just because theres a hole opened.

If you built a tower of slonges and sat a book on top.
The book would stay up in the air.
If the sponges expanded the book would rise up.
That means the sponges are pushing on the underside of the book.

PointA
If the water rocket has air leaving its bottom.
And the rocket is shown to fly up.
The rocket is - sitting on expanding air sponges?

PointB
If so, then yoy have to admit that as air is leaving the butt end, there is presaure exeeted on the inside end of the rocket to be pushing it up.
And if we put a gauge on there it would show positive values even if there was a negative rate/ declining set.

So how do you reconcile poont a with b and claim no contradiction?

And still shows you wrong.
The water doesnt cease to have weight just because theres a hole opened.

I never said it did. You're saying it all.

If you built a tower of slonges and sat a book on top.
The book would stay up in the air.
If the sponges expanded the book would rise up.
That means the sponges are pushing on the underside of the book.

Nope.
If the sponges expanded the book would fall.
If they were compressed more the book would then rise.

PointA
If the water rocket has air leaving its bottom.
And the rocket is shown to fly up.
The rocket is - sitting on expanding air sponges?

The water rocket doesn't have air leaving its bottom, until all the water is expelled.

PointB
If so, then yoy have to admit that as air is leaving the butt end, there is presaure exeeted on the inside end of the rocket to be pushing it up.
And if we put a gauge on there it would show positive values even if there was a negative rate/ declining set.

Nope. If air is leaving then there cannot be an opposite push on a closed end inside a bottle/rocket.

So how do you reconcile poont a with b and claim no contradiction?

Just as I explain.