HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #660 on: August 21, 2019, 01:03:57 PM »
Ok, one good thing I have gotten out of this so far is there needs to be a scale at the top of the plastic slide. That was we can see the comparison of vacuum vs none.

I started drawing up some ideas on solid works for the slide, but will need to figure out the dimensions of the rocket before finishing. Will need to send that off to my friend to make, as all my machinery is designed for metal works.

The rocket is the only thing that is the hold up currently

Here's another experiment that shows two things, how it can be difficult to keep the model rocket engine burning up to full capacity. And for two, how a rocket does, in fact, work in a vacuum. (The successful test starts at around 4:30):


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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #661 on: August 21, 2019, 02:24:02 PM »
Since combustion is impossible in a vacuum how you can get the following result (a flame - exhaust trail) in a vacuum chamber assuming that all air has been sucked out of this "vacuum" chamber? :

ACCOMPANYING VIDEO :
ROCKET ENGINE IN A VACUUM CHAMBER IN SLOW MOTION :
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gugbj
COMBUSTION IS IMPOSSIBLE IN A VACUUM - VIDEO :
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gzl3f

Edit: Who uses 'sonny boy'? Were you born in the teens of the last century?




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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #662 on: August 21, 2019, 02:43:25 PM »
Since combustion is impossible in a vacuum how you can get the following result (a flame - exhaust trail) in a vacuum chamber assuming that all air has been sucked out of this "vacuum" chamber?
As stated repeatedly, the rocket carries its own fuel and oxidiser, which are combined and reacted, creating pressurised gas. This results in a flame and exhaust trail.
Do you know what that means?
It means that exhaust needs to be accelerated.
That means the exhaust needs a force applied, and a second body to interact with which itself will be forced and accelerated.
And if the only thing there is the exhaust and the rocket, the rocket has to be the second body which means the rocket will have a force applied by the exhaust. So rockets will work in a vacuum.
This will happen in space as well.

Unlike what some people claim, the gas doesn't magically vanish instantaneously.

Does this mean if you see a flame or exhaust you will reject the test just like I assumed?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:45:24 PM by JackBlack »

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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #663 on: August 21, 2019, 03:41:36 PM »
Since combustion is impossible in a vacuum how you can get the following result (a flame - exhaust trail) in a vacuum chamber assuming that all air has been sucked out of this "vacuum" chamber?
As stated repeatedly, the rocket carries its own fuel and oxidiser, which are combined and reacted, creating pressurised gas. This results in a flame and exhaust trail.
I suppose this "firecracker" carries it's own fuel and oxidiser, also :
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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #664 on: August 21, 2019, 03:46:49 PM »
I suppose this "firecracker" carries it's own fuel and oxidiser, also :

Yes.
Gunpowder, also known as black powder to distinguish it from modern smokeless powder, is the earliest known chemical explosive. It consists of a mixture of sulfur (S), charcoal (C), and potassium nitrate (saltpeter, KNO3). The sulfur and charcoal act as fuels while the saltpeter is an oxidizer.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #665 on: August 21, 2019, 04:17:50 PM »
I suppose this "firecracker" carries it's own fuel and oxidiser, also :

Yes.
Gunpowder, also known as black powder to distinguish it from modern smokeless powder, is the earliest known chemical explosive. It consists of a mixture of sulfur (S), charcoal (C), and potassium nitrate (saltpeter, KNO3). The sulfur and charcoal act as fuels while the saltpeter is an oxidizer.

Although this video apparently proves your point, in fact (after more detailed analysis regarding the differences between two explosions within two different environments (air vs vacuum)), this video actually does away with your false argument :

Have you watched this video :
COMBUSTION IS IMPOSSIBLE IN A VACUUM : https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gzl3f
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sokarul

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #666 on: August 21, 2019, 04:50:46 PM »
You do know there are three conditions for combustion right?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #667 on: August 21, 2019, 11:17:07 PM »
I suppose this "firecracker" carries it's own fuel and oxidiser, also :

Yes.
Gunpowder, also known as black powder to distinguish it from modern smokeless powder, is the earliest known chemical explosive. It consists of a mixture of sulfur (S), charcoal (C), and potassium nitrate (saltpeter, KNO3). The sulfur and charcoal act as fuels while the saltpeter is an oxidizer.

Although this video apparently proves your point, in fact (after more detailed analysis regarding the differences between two explosions within two different environments (air vs vacuum)), this video actually does away with your false argument :

Have you watched this video :
COMBUSTION IS IMPOSSIBLE IN A VACUUM : https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gzl3f

I don't know if this one has come up before, but there's a mythbusters rocket in a vacuum video. Is there anything in this one that you would find objectionable from your standpoint and if so what? It would help to know so that when Bom is putting his together, he doesn't repeat the same things that would just make someone say, "Oh, well that happened just because of..."

https://go.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/its-rocket-science

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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #668 on: August 22, 2019, 02:51:02 AM »
I suppose this "firecracker" carries it's own fuel and oxidiser, also :
Yes, that is how they are able to burn so well.
Pretty much all pyrotechnics these days have their own fuel and oxidiser.
A common oxidiser for such applications is a nitrate salt.

If you want to claim combustion is impossible in a vacuum, that is an entirely different argument and you will need a lot more evidence than a video.
Note: showing one type of combustion doesn't work doesn't mean none can.

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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #669 on: August 22, 2019, 03:30:02 AM »
I suppose this "firecracker" carries it's own fuel and oxidiser, also :
Yes, that is how they are able to burn so well.
Pretty much all pyrotechnics these days have their own fuel and oxidiser.
A common oxidiser for such applications is a nitrate salt.

If you want to claim combustion is impossible in a vacuum, that is an entirely different argument and you will need a lot more evidence than a video.
Note: showing one type of combustion doesn't work doesn't mean none can.

Firstly, in the first part of this video you can clearly see how the model rocket engine (firecracker) can't burn in a vacuum :


After Cody encapsulated firecracker (which was surrounded by air contained inside the capsule) then it burned because the rocket was NOT in a vacuum. The burn was created by the air inside the capsule.
In consequence, the rocket moved because of the PRESSURE BURST (the bullet and the gun recoil analogy) of the capsule, nothing else!

Secondly, what has been shown in this very video proves without the doubt that the experiment to which i am referring was severely corrupted (too much air left (or produced in the very beginning of the experiment) in that "vacuum" chamber)! :


ACCOMPANYING VIDEO :
ROCKET ENGINE IN A VACUUM CHAMBER IN SLOW MOTION :
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gugbj

Thirdly, as i pointed out in my previous reply : Although the next (conducted by Cody, as well) video apparently proves your point, in fact (after more detailed analysis regarding the differences between two explosions within two different environments (air vs vacuum)), this video actually does away with your false argument :

Have you watched this video :
COMBUSTION IS IMPOSSIBLE IN A VACUUM : https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gzl3f

These experimenters debunk each other and themselves, isn't that awesome?
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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #670 on: August 22, 2019, 04:30:26 AM »
Firstly, in the first part of this video you can clearly see how the model rocket engine (firecracker) can't burn in a vacuum :
You mean we can see how this specific firecracker and setup wont work.
Not that it wont work in general.
You have done nothing to show it is impossible.

Secondly, what has been shown in this very video proves without the doubt that the experiment to which i am referring was severely corrupted (too much air left (or produced in the very beginning of the experiment) in that "vacuum" chamber)! :
i.e. you will make up whatever excuse you can to dismiss rockets working in a vacuum.

Now, do you have anything to actually show it is impossible in a vacuum, or just examples showing times that it failed?
Do you think a video of someone failing to a get a 3-pointer in basketball proves that is impossible?

Alternatively, have you thought of an answer to my question yet, one which actually addresses the question, by identifying the other body?

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Yes

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #671 on: August 22, 2019, 05:22:51 AM »
Secondly, what has been shown in this very video proves without the doubt that the experiment to which i am referring was severely corrupted (too much air left (or produced in the very beginning of the experiment) in that "vacuum" chamber)! :
So, you're already hedging against the results of Bom's experiment.  You actually know that it will work, so you're trying to come up with excuses ahead of time to dismiss it.

You not only lie to us, you lie to yourself.
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turtles

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #672 on: August 22, 2019, 06:28:11 AM »
Secondly, what has been shown in this very video proves without the doubt that the experiment to which i am referring was severely corrupted (too much air left (or produced in the very beginning of the experiment) in that "vacuum" chamber)! :

Ha, didn't I say? You're so predictable :)
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #673 on: August 22, 2019, 06:33:12 AM »
Secondly, what has been shown in this very video proves without the doubt that the experiment to which i am referring was severely corrupted (too much air left (or produced in the very beginning of the experiment) in that "vacuum" chamber)! :
So, you're already hedging against the results of Bom's experiment.  You actually know that it will work, so you're trying to come up with excuses ahead of time to dismiss it.

You not only lie to us, you lie to yourself.

My reply to JackBlack is going to serve as a perfect response to all other liars and cowards (as well), so feel free to read the following quotes very carefully, it is going to be like one time life experience a.k.a. mystical, unexpected, sudden encounter with Jesus, or better to say : sudden encounter with the reflexion of your soul (her wickedness) in a mirror... If you survive such revelation, i will be left with no option but to conclude that you haven't even read my extensive post (let alone read it carefully - with due attention), in the first place...Enjoy the truth!!!...Oh, i almost forgot it : Stop panicking, sunny boy!!! You can't fight the facts, it's a futile battle, but even if you could (theoretically, at least) win this battle, you can't win the war, since it's the lost war (in advance) just like you are a lost cause!

Firstly, in the first part of this video you can clearly see how the model rocket engine (firecracker) can't burn in a vacuum :
You mean we can see how this specific firecracker and setup wont work.
Not that it wont work in general.
You have done nothing to show it is impossible.

Next few quotes will be the best way to reply to such classical JB stupidity :

A notorious facts - No 1 :

No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.

The toil of thousands of exasperated researchers, in the extremely varied experiments of Arago, De Coudre's induction, Fizeau, Fresnell drag, Hoek, Jaseja's lasers, Jenkins, Klinkerfuess, Michelson-Morley interferometry, Lord Rayleigh's polarimetry, Troughton-Noble torque, and the famous 'Airy's Failure' experiment, all conclusively failed to show any rotational or translational movement for the earth, whatsoever."

You can search all 29 volumes of this final authority on all scientific matters (Encyclopedia Britannica) but you will look in vain for any PROOF for this revolution of the earth around the sun and its spinning on its axis every 24 hours. It is simply stated as DOGMA and to doubt is to be damned to a spinning hell forever by the "scientific" community.

Many "astronomers" cite the Foucault pendulum experiment that was carried out in Paris in 1851 as PROOF that the earth turns. It's a pity that the NASA space program has not provided them with more recent proof.

FOUCAULT DEBUNKED by Rob Durham :


FOUCAULT DEBUNKED by me :


A notorious facts - No 2 :

David Berlinski an author academic, agnostic, secular Jew got it spot on In his book 'The devil's delusion'...

Has anyone provided a proof of God’s inexistence? Not even close.

Has quantum cosmology explained the emergence of the universe or why it is here? Not even close.

Have the sciences explained why our universe seems to be fine-tuned to allow for the existence of life? Not even close.

Are physicists and biologists willing to believe in anything so long as it is not religious thought? Close enough.

Has rationalism in moral thought provided us with an understanding of what is good, what is right, and what is moral? Not close enough.

Has secularism in the terrible twentieth century been a force for good? Not even close to being close.

Is there a narrow and oppressive orthodoxy of thought and opinion within the sciences? Close enough.

Does anything in the sciences or in their philosophy justify the claim that religious belief is irrational? Not even ballpark.

Is scientific atheism a frivolous exercise in intellectual contempt? Dead on.

Francis Crick, one of the co-discoverers of the double helix structure of DNA, lamented:
An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have been satisfied to get it going.

Abiogenesis is not only unproven, it is mathematically impossible. No wonder both Orgel and Crick called it a miracle. Other scenarios have therefore been suggested. Hoyle and others postulate life was transplanted from outer space — which moves the origins problem to another time and place. The multiverse hypothesis, proposed by leading origin-of-life researcher Eugene Koonin, is currently in vogue—it replaces infinite time with an infinity of universes to account for the extraordinarily improbable existence of at least one life-sustaining planet.

Behe quotes Klaus Dose:
More than 30 years of experimentation on the origin of life in the fields of chemical and molecular evolution have led to a better perception of the immensity of the problem of the origin of life on Earth rather than to its solution. At present all discussions on principal theories and experiments in the field either end in stalemate or in a confession of ignorance.

Biologists J. T. Trevors and D. L. Abel conclude:

"The argument has been repeatedly made that given sufficient time, a genetic instruction set and language system could have arisen. But extended time does not provide an explanatory mechanism for spontaneously generated genetic instruction. No amount of time proposed thus far, can explain this type of conceptual communication system. It is not just complex. It is conceptually complex."

These probability arguments are irrefutable. Some evolutionists offer hand-waving contrary arguments, but even Richard Dawkins admits "the probability of life having arisen by chance is as vanishingly small as the likelihood of a Jumbo Jet having being constructed by a hurricane sweeping through a scrap yard."

"This is the evidence which has evolutionists completely stymied, and it is perfectly obvious why: anyone
considering the degree and quality of the complexity found in biological systems will recognize, based on logic and unvarying experience, that such complexity cannot and does not arise accidentally. Nor have scientists suggested how it could have happened. "[N]one of the papers published in JME [the Journal of Molecular Evolution] over the entire course of its life as a journal," says Behe, "has ever proposed a detailed model by which a complex biochemical system might have been produced in a gradual, step-by-step Darwinian fashion."

Behe lists several biochemical systems which might be candidates for such studies; then he continues:

"The very fact that none of these problems is even addressed, let alone solved, is a very strong indication that Darwinism is an inadequate framework for understanding the origin of complex biochemical systems. . . . The reason for this appears to be similar to the reason for the failure to explain the origin of life: a choking complexity strangles all such attempts."

The problem is so insuperable that Stanley Crick, Nobel prize winner and co-discoverer of the structure of the DNA molecule, was driven to speculate that life did not originate on earth at all, but that the earth was "seeded" by extraterrestrials. The magnitude of the complexity of living things is difficult to convey in simple, short sentences. Perhaps it may merely be said that living things are typified by a chain of complexity within complexity, almost endlessly, beyond this observer's capacity for amazement. There can be no substitute for a more detailed description.

Of course people will differ on the point at which they decide to break rules. But at least with the realistic criterion there could be evidence against the unfalsifiable. At least then people like Doolittle and Miller would run a risk when they cite an experiment that shows the opposite of what they had thought. At least then science would have a way to escape from the rut of unfalsifiability and think new thoughts. (Michael Behe, “Answering Scientific Criticisms of Intelligent Design,” Science and Evidence for Design in the Universe, Proceedings of the Wethersfield Institute, Vol 9:146-147 (Ignatius Press, 2000).)

    Mere possibility is not an adequate basis for asserting scientific plausibility. A precisely defined universal bound is needed beyond which the assertion of plausibility, particularly in life-origin models, can be considered operationally falsified. … But at some point our reluctance to exclude any possibility becomes stultifying to operational science. Falsification is critical to narrowing down the list of serious possibilities. Almost all hypotheses are possible. Few of them wind up being helpful and scientific ally productive. Just because a hypothesis is possible should not grant that hypothesis scientific respectability. More attention to the concept of “infeasibility” has been suggested. Millions of dollars in astrobiology grant money have been wasted on scenarios that are possible, but plausibly bankrupt. The question for scientific methodology should not be, “Is this scenario possible?” The question should be, “Is this possibility a plausible scientific hypothesis?” One chance in 10^200 is theoretically possible, but given maximum cosmic probabilistic resources, such a possibility is hardly plausible. With funding resources rapidly drying up, science needs a foundational principle by which to falsify a myriad of theoretical possibilities that are not worthy of serious scientific consideration and modeling. (David L. Abel, “The Universal Plausibility Metric (UPM) & Principle (UPP),” Theoretical Biology and Medical Modelling, Vol. 6:27 (Dec. 3, 2009).)

To the question, “Many prominent scientists - including Darwin, Einstein, and Planck - have considered the concept of God very seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the existence of God?” Christian Anfinsen replied: “I think only an idiot can be an atheist. We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place.” (Anfinsen, as cited in Margenau and Varghese, ‘Cosmos, Bios, Theos’, 1997, 139).

Darwin said of his theory, that there would be ample evidence (in the future) of transitional forms to prove his theory.  Evidence of tens of thousands of fossils of transitional 'species' should have been found by now, but archeologists have not found one that's not heavily disputed.

Youtube exchange of thoughts No 1 :

segun shona
The complexity in biological life forms cannot be by chance. The DNA is a programme that guides so many activities within the cell and not only that it can replicate itself. It is as though it is a living organism on its own. The numerous codes it has cannot align by chance. My only problem is  just that those who push for intelligent design are usually religious scientists with an  obvious agenda i.e. to show validity for the belief in their God. Richard Dawkins did agree to the possibility of an intelligent design but it does not mean that that designer is God as presented in the bible or Quoran. It simply means there is an intelligence behind biological life period.?

 odiupicku
Yes, but the question is this : How exactly high such intelligence should be in order to be capable to create such a complex life within such a complex universe? Could it be any lower type of intelligence than we supposed to be an intelligence of God himself??

Youtube exchange of thoughts No 2 :

DaddyKitty Daddykitty
The probability that your great great great great grandparents would meet was likely somewhere around 1 in a million. The probability that your great great great grandmother's sperm cell would win the race and meet with her ovule, would be somewhere around 1 in 2,000,000,000. Let's add the same pattern of chances from your great great great grandparents' chances of meeting and coming up with the corresponding ancestor all the way to you... How is it possible that you're here??!!?

odiupicku
You just can't get any smarter than you already are, unless you also use one another nick (JackBlack), isn't that so?

IN ADDITION :

Atheists in fact hate the Scientific Method and refuse to employ it. Example: 100 years of random genetic mutation experimentation provides consistent results demonstrating that random mutations are destructive and negative to organisms, both biochemically and anatomically, and does not add anything incrementally to the anatomy of organisms. Conclusion? Mutation cannot be a mechanism for accruing change that results in macroevolution. But what does the atheist conclude despite the evidence? They continue believing that random mutation IS a mechanism for accruing change that results in mind-bending complexity, microscopic interdependent machinery, and macroevolution, not because of science, but because their worldview requires it to be, since if evolution were true, random mutation would have to be the base mechanism for evolution, since genetic information defines organisms. In this way, they refuse to come to the correct conclusion because of their paradigm, tossing out the Scientific Method and the conclusion it would require them to accept.

Examples of how atheists refuse to comply with the Scientific Method are nearly countless, and found in all fields of science. I would say that based upon this fact, atheists are incapable of being objective, responsible scientists in any field of science which relates to the universe, organic life, or history.

Anthony Flew, once the word's foremost atheist academic who's former arguments are the posters upheld by atheists today, converted to a theist and creationist because of the biological evidence.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 07:30:27 AM by cikljamas »
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Yes

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #674 on: August 22, 2019, 06:52:41 AM »
No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.
I know you think this is true, but this is not true.  What you're saying is false.  You have believed a lie and now are repeating a lie.  Are you interested in knowing why it's false?  Do you want to know how rotation can be demonstrated?  Do you want to see how Earth rotates?  Are you interested in technologies that depend on the rotation of earth to be useful?

unrelated ranting
Divine creation is not continent upon a flat earth.  Did you know that?  Did you know that God can create a round planet?

PS, what does this have to do with the physics of rockets in a vacuum?  I know sidetracks and tangents are the normal mode of discussion with you, but I would like to know the answer anyway.
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Tommyocean

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #675 on: August 22, 2019, 07:27:53 AM »
Why do you say that combustion cannot take place in a vacuum?  If it's because of lack of oxygen then how do you explain welding torches that work underwater?

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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #676 on: August 22, 2019, 07:32:34 AM »
Why do you say that combustion cannot take place in a vacuum?  If it's because of lack of oxygen then how do you explain welding torches that work underwater?
Underwater is pretty much the exact opposite of a vacuum.  The increased water pressure allows the fuel and oxidizer to stay together long enough to ignite.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #677 on: August 22, 2019, 07:56:11 AM »


It's Bom Tishop's turn to conduct his experiment...Until then, keep comforting yourself...

In the meantime, feel free to watch this video :

« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 08:07:15 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #678 on: August 22, 2019, 10:13:11 AM »
In the meantime, feel free to watch this video :


He's assuming that Skylab itself is not precessing at the same rate as the gyro.  Don't forget that Skylab was free floating too and used control moment gyros for stabilization and maneuvering as needed.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Romp

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #679 on: August 22, 2019, 10:15:06 AM »
As mentioned previously, I am not sure whether you are posting what you post for giggles or you actually do believe it. I've got a feeling that you do, and the above posts indicate you tend to be a conspiracy theorist which explains a lot.

Others on this and other threads deal with your mistaken assertions quite well, but just picking up on one of your links, the 'Challenger crew are still alive and well' conspiracy theory is one of the many which are just plain illogical. But who said logic plays any part in a conspiracy theorist's reasoning. There are many debunks of the 'crew is still alive CT' as I'm sure you are aware, this being one of them:

http://www.sciencedenierhallofshame.com/debunked/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/

I doubt though that this and other similar debunks of the other CTs you've posted will ever make you stop and think again. As mentioned previously, CTers don't view the world rationally and the belief system is usually unshakeable given that CTism is hard wired into their thought process, as it seems to be with you. 

Still tipping my hat to those taking their time to shoot down your arguments and so called evidence and logic.

 You’re All Just a Bunch of Conspiracy Kooks

Keating:  page  80:  Quoting  Wood:  “Characterizing  scientist  as  arrogant,   deceptive,   or   purely   driven   by   philosophical   bias   doesn’t help your case at all. It makes you sound like conspiracy kooks.”

Sungenis: We don’t characterize scientists in that way, except when they clearly reveal they are that way. Let me give you two examples. One regarding  a  philosophical  bias  against  creationism and one regarding a philosophical bias toward  geocentrism, in spite of what the evidence shows. Here is evolutionist, Richard Lewontin:

We  take  the  side  of  science  in  spite  of  the  patent  absurdity  of  some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of  the  scientific  community  for  unsubstantiated  just-so  stories,  because   we   have   a   prior   commitment,   a   commitment   to   materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow  compel  us  to  accept  a  material  explanation  of  the  phenomenal  world,  but,  on  the  contrary,  that  we  are  forced  by  our a-priori  adherence  to  material  causes  to  create  an  apparatus  of  investigation  and  a  set  of  concepts  that  produce  material  explanations,  no  matter  how  counterintuitive,  no  matter  how  mystifying  to  the  uninitiated. Moreover,  that  materialism  is  absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.

Here is physicist Stephen Hawking

...all  this  evidence  that  the  universe  looks  the  same  whichever  direction  we  look  in  might  seem  to  suggest  there  is  something  special  about  our  place  in  the  universe.  In  particular,  it  might  seem  that  if  we  observe  all  other  galaxies  to  be  moving  away  from us, then we must be at the center of the universe.16 There is, however,  an  alternate  explanation:  the  universe  might  look  the  same in every direction as seen from any other galaxy, too. This, as we have seen, was Friedmann’s second assumption. We have no  scientific  evidence  for,  or  against,  this  assumption.  We  believe   it   only   on   grounds   of   modesty:   it   would   be   most   remarkable  if  the  universe  looked  the  same  in  every  direction  around us, but not around other points in the universe.


Not sure how your post is meant to show that you're not a conspiracy theorist, but take it from me, it doesn't.

I am also sure that you are aware of all the debunks to the CTs you may believe in. You showed one of WTC and the BBC reporter and she gave a perfectly reasonable explanation of why she reported what she did. But of course you are not likely to believe this or any other perfectly reasonable explanation of any other event which conspiracy theorists think suspicious, funny, doesn't look right, it's the illuminati, etc., etc., and whatever other reason causes them be incredulous at 'stuff just happens to happen'.

And the same goes for your 'rockets don't work in a vacuum' belief.

You are arguing against a fact and a body of plainly obvious everyday evidence that they do. Ultimately, given this is your assertion it's up to you to provide the evidence that they don't. And you will of course fail.


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cikljamas

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #680 on: August 22, 2019, 10:55:46 AM »
In the meantime, feel free to watch this video :


He's assuming that Skylab itself is not precessing at the same rate as the gyro.  Don't forget that Skylab was free floating too and used control moment gyros for stabilization and maneuvering as needed.

Who is he? Bob Knodel (the narrator) or are you referring to the author of the original video ("odiupicku" that is to say : me myself)? He (Bob) got it right, and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about! Since Skylab should have been always (allegedly) aligned (top-up and bottom-down) with the surface of the earth (while precessing wrt absolute (fixed) spatial orientation) it means that Skylab had to use some device(s) (control moment gyros) for stabilization in order to remain constantly in the same position with respect to the earth, and that was exactly what the author of the original video (me myself) and Bob Knodel assumed while pointing out this spectacular NASA's giveaway. The core of my argument is this : Since we assume that Skylab (while hurtling 27600 km/h around the earth) constantly changed it's spatial orientation in space (while precessing wrt absolute (fixed) spatial orientation) why there was no indication of that spatial change with respect to a rigid gyro (toy) presented in that fraudulent experiment conducted by NASA astronut? What would induce/cause a rigid gyro (toy) to follow (to keep the pace with) Skylab's constant orientation/spatial adjustment wrt Earth's surface (in it's orbit around the earth) which Skylab allegedly managed to keep by using so called control moment gyros (as you pointed out)? What? Magic? I won't continue on this, or any other derailing sub-topic, because we have to constrain ourselves from further blabbing and ranting (in this particular thread) in order to show due respect to our experimenter Bom Tishop and his exceptional work in progress...



It's Bom Tishop's turn to conduct his experiment...Until then, keep comforting yourself...
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #681 on: August 22, 2019, 11:12:30 AM »
Who is he? Bob Knodel (the narrator) or are you referring to the author of the original video ("odiupicku" that is to say : me myself)? He (Bob) got it right, and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about!

Yep, Bob got it right:



And my personal favorite cikljamas oxymoron to date is the phrase: "Youtube exchange of thoughts"
Is there really such a thing?

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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #682 on: August 22, 2019, 11:16:17 AM »
I won't continue on this, or any other derailing sub-topic...
Then why did you bring it up in the first place? ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #683 on: August 22, 2019, 02:10:02 PM »
My reply to JackBlack is going to serve as a perfect response to all other liars and cowards (as well),
So it serves as a response to you?

i will be left with no option
No you still have the option of admitting you are spouting a load of crap and not bothering to honestly address the issues.
After all, that is the vastly more likely option given you are completely incapable of unwilling to answer a very simple question:
What force is acting on the gas that is exiting the rocket to make it go in a particular direction and what is the other body involved in this interaction?

A notorious facts - No 1 :
You seem to have mistyped. What followed was not a fact, it was a blatant lie.
A lie which has been repeatedly refuted, and which has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread.

Likewise, your religious nonsense with shifting of the burden of proof has nothing to do with the thread either.

So yes, I think the far more likely conclusion is that you are the one panicking sonny boy.
Your arguments are repeatedly being destroyed so you are resorting to the same pathetic spam all to avoid admitting you were wrong/continue the trolling.

So care to actually address what has been asked?
So far there are 2 key points relating to rockets in a vacuum/space:
1 - Just what requirements do you have for a demonstration that rockets work in a vacuum? So far you reject every experiment that shows you are wrong, because you come up with some excuse to invalidate it.
So, why not actually tell us just what it is you require? If you cared about the truth, it would be easy. If you are just wanting to reject everything, then you likely wont tell us (or set up impossible standards) so you can then dismiss it when it shows you are wrong.

2 - What force is acting on the gas that is exiting the rocket to make it go in a particular direction and what is the other body involved in this interaction?
We know that because the gas starts stationary relative to the rocket, and ends up moving relative to it, it (or the rocket, or both) needs to be accelerated.
We know that as it has a mass, it needs a force to do so.
We know that all forces require an interaction with a second body.
We know that the only other thing near the gas in the vacuum is the rocket.
So it sure seems like the rocket is the only option for the second body.
That would mean that the rocket would be forced by the gas, and thus accelerate.
That would mean that rockets do work in a vacuum, at the very least, cold gas thruster versions.
So can you answer the question and provide an alternative, or can you admit you were wrong and admit that rockets do in fact work in a vacuum?

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Joecool

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #684 on: August 22, 2019, 05:31:28 PM »
"Do you have an explanation how the operation continued while the survival operation temperature limit was 60 degrees celcius but 107 degrees exist on the moon? Your tears can not cool down the temperature."
Answer:
4-12 layers of aluminumized Mylar, in the outer vacuum layers of the suit.
It works like having 4-12 Thermoses inside each other.
They do have a internal heat issue, so they slowly evaporate a gallon of water off a sublimation plate on the back of the back pack. Which is attached to lots of small water caring tubes against their skin. I saw one image of the steam on an image of them on the moon.
Astronomer, photographer, and astro-photographer for 51 years. Satellite observer for 3 years, satellite builder in the 80's. Telescope maker and familiar with optical theory and designs. Machinists and machine tool programmer.

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sokarul

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #685 on: August 22, 2019, 07:38:01 PM »
In the meantime, feel free to watch this video :


He's assuming that Skylab itself is not precessing at the same rate as the gyro.  Don't forget that Skylab was free floating too and used control moment gyros for stabilization and maneuvering as needed.

Who is he? Bob Knodel (the narrator) or are you referring to the author of the original video ("odiupicku" that is to say : me myself)? He (Bob) got it right, and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about! Since Skylab should have been always (allegedly) aligned (top-up and bottom-down) with the surface of the earth (while precessing wrt absolute (fixed) spatial orientation) it means that Skylab had to use some device(s) (control moment gyros) for stabilization in order to remain constantly in the same position with respect to the earth, and that was exactly what the author of the original video (me myself) and Bob Knodel assumed while pointing out this spectacular NASA's giveaway. The core of my argument is this : Since we assume that Skylab (while hurtling 27600 km/h around the earth) constantly changed it's spatial orientation in space (while precessing wrt absolute (fixed) spatial orientation) why there was no indication of that spatial change with respect to a rigid gyro (toy) presented in that fraudulent experiment conducted by NASA astronut? What would induce/cause a rigid gyro (toy) to follow (to keep the pace with) Skylab's constant orientation/spatial adjustment wrt Earth's surface (in it's orbit around the earth) which Skylab allegedly managed to keep by using so called control moment gyros (as you pointed out)? What? Magic? I won't continue on this, or any other derailing sub-topic, because we have to constrain ourselves from further blabbing and ranting (in this particular thread) in order to show due respect to our experimenter Bom Tishop and his exceptional work in progress...



It's Bom Tishop's turn to conduct his experiment...Until then, keep comforting yourself...

Like markjo already said, objects in free fall won’t show precession.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #686 on: August 22, 2019, 08:19:28 PM »
In the meantime, feel free to watch this video :


He's assuming that Skylab itself is not precessing at the same rate as the gyro.  Don't forget that Skylab was free floating too and used control moment gyros for stabilization and maneuvering as needed.

Who is he? Bob Knodel (the narrator) or are you referring to the author of the original video ("odiupicku" that is to say : me myself)? He (Bob) got it right, and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about! Since Skylab should have been always (allegedly) aligned (top-up and bottom-down) with the surface of the earth (while precessing wrt absolute (fixed) spatial orientation) it means that Skylab had to use some device(s) (control moment gyros) for stabilization in order to remain constantly in the same position with respect to the earth, and that was exactly what the author of the original video (me myself) and Bob Knodel assumed while pointing out this spectacular NASA's giveaway. The core of my argument is this : Since we assume that Skylab (while hurtling 27600 km/h around the earth) constantly changed it's spatial orientation in space (while precessing wrt absolute (fixed) spatial orientation) why there was no indication of that spatial change with respect to a rigid gyro (toy) presented in that fraudulent experiment conducted by NASA astronut? What would induce/cause a rigid gyro (toy) to follow (to keep the pace with) Skylab's constant orientation/spatial adjustment wrt Earth's surface (in it's orbit around the earth) which Skylab allegedly managed to keep by using so called control moment gyros (as you pointed out)? What? Magic? I won't continue on this, or any other derailing sub-topic, because we have to constrain ourselves from further blabbing and ranting (in this particular thread) in order to show due respect to our experimenter Bom Tishop and his exceptional work in progress...



It's Bom Tishop's turn to conduct his experiment...Until then, keep comforting yourself...

Like markjo already said, objects in free fall won’t show precession.
No, that isn't what I said.  I was saying that it's entirely possible that Skylab and the gyroscope were precessing at the same rate relative to the earth, but not relative to each other.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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sokarul

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #687 on: August 23, 2019, 01:00:00 AM »
Yes. I miss worded what I said.
Yes.


I guess the claim I just wanted to make is a gyroscope will never show precession in actual free fall relative to another body in the same free fall. (Like the camera man.) Since the earth’s surface isn’t freefall precession can be seen.


I’m also assuming skylab’s orientation was controlled and the ISS is controlled. Wouldn’t want them to tumble.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

turtles

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #688 on: August 23, 2019, 03:13:41 AM »
Since combustion is impossible in a vacuum how you can get the following result (a flame - exhaust trail) in a vacuum chamber assuming that all air has been sucked out of this "vacuum" chamber? :

Combustion is not impossible in a vacuum.

I linked to an article here https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82434.msg2196043#msg2196043 which explains rocket fuel chemistry. You don't have to read it, but if you don't then don't make wild proclamations about what rocket fuels can or can't do.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #689 on: August 23, 2019, 02:43:04 PM »
Since combustion is impossible in a vacuum how you can get the following result (a flame - exhaust trail) in a vacuum chamber assuming that all air has been sucked out of this "vacuum" chamber? :

Combustion is not impossible in a vacuum.
I would go so far as to say that a vacuum is not possible when there is combustion.  Once a fuel and oxidizer are introduced to the flow restricted combustion chamber and ignited, it's no longer a vacuum in the chamber.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.