HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #300 on: July 28, 2019, 04:54:18 AM »
Hey, NASA paid shills, how many of you are freemasons?
I know for an absolute certainty that I get no pay from NASA or anybody for this and don't even know anyone who might be a freemason!

But I also know that you are such a blatant hypocrite that you refuse to even acknowledge your proven guilt!

Here have another go at defending yourself!

You dare post accusations like this when you prove your own deception by using "Photoshopped" photos and refusing to even admit to it when pointed out:
I have demonstrated my honesty by admitting (every single time) that i was wrong whenever i noticed a mistake that i had made. However, this simple concept (of admitting your obvious mistakes) is totally strange and incomprehensible to you and to Jack Black. Whenever it comes to my mind to tell you "shame on you", the next thought comes to my mind in a nanosecond : They have no idea what the word "shame" designates, and they have no idea what "a shame" is, because they haven't got a clue what the word "honesty" means.
Now firstly please point out where either JackBlack or I made mistakes we should admit to and then answer why you, yourself, are so deceptive!.

But it would appear that you do not simply "make mistakes" you used at least two obviously "Photoshopped" images in one of the few of your videos I've bothered to watch, the EIFFEL TOWER PROOF:
EIFFEL TOWER PROOF :

It starts with the question, "How would earth look from the moon?" And at 0:30 in that video we find this image:

How would earth look from the moon by cikljamas

The inset in the lower right is obviously a composite of two NASA photos.

Photoshopped "Earth from Moon", by odiupicku
       Then at 5:56 in that video I find the following image which I know is a composite of two NASA photos

Of course the light comes from different directions! That is not a genuine NASA photo.

Now, Mr Cikljamas, you have two options either:
  • YOU show me the originals of those photos in the official NASA archives (with AS numbers) or

  • admit to your deception in using fake photos in which you deceive people in you vain attempt show that NASA are liars.

Your continual ignoring of this just goes to show that you know you are being deceptive in your own videos!

Your response and apology would be greatly appreciated!

You are a proven deceiver and if you expect anyone to take you seriously you will admit your guilt and takedown that and other videos that might have similar faked photos.

PS You titled this thread "HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)" and
      it looks as though you have neither proven taht the lunar landings were a  hoax or that "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum"! What a loser!

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rabinoz

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  • Real Earth Believer
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #301 on: July 28, 2019, 05:33:22 AM »
I am here to laugh at you!!!
Well that seems to be one of the few things you are capable of.
You are certainly yet to present any rational argument to back up your nonsense.

This one question destroys your position:
What force causes the gas to leave the rocket and what other body is involved?

The only options are to reject physics or accept rockets work in space.
You forgot half of JackBlack's post so I restored it! No need to thank me I do these little things just to be helpful.

But I must have missed the bit where you gave a rational answer to "What force causes the gas to leave the rocket and what other body is involved?"

Would you care to enlighten us again as to "What force causes the gas to leave the rocket and what other body is involved?"

Come to think of it, I've never seen you give a rational answer as to why "Rockets can't fly in a vacuum" so I must assume that you have no idea!

Quote from: cikljamas
Last time you destroyed me at page 11 (remember?) :
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=80229.300
You mean this post:
Get use to this :
Get used to this:
Stop spamming the thread with irrelavent nonsense.
Stop making completely false claims about the HC model.
Start dealing with the refutations of your claims.

If you are unwilling to defend your claims then stop making them.

Now what do you have to say about the stellar day vs sidereal day?

These points seem just as relevant to your behaviour in this thread:
Stop spamming the thread with irrelevant nonsense.
Stop making completely false claims about the supposed lunar mission hoaxes and rockets flying in a vacuum.
Start dealing with the refutations of your claims.

If you are unwilling to defend your claims then stop making them.

Because here you just ignore all the solid reasons that your claims are pure nonsense and seem totally unwilling or unable to defend them.

And you refuse to even acknowledge, let alone apologise for, including proven "Photoshopped" images in at least one video you posted on YouTube.

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boydster

  • Assistant to the Regional Manager
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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #302 on: July 28, 2019, 06:20:22 AM »
Please keep the mocking, attacking, and low content portions of your commentary out of the upper boards everyone.

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cikljamas

  • 2432
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #303 on: July 28, 2019, 06:59:08 AM »
Something I have noticed in various forums discussing the subject of space propulsion is exemplified by this other comment - by "alancalverd", a supporter of PmbPhy's arguments on the Naked Scientists forum. At one point, alancalverd says :

"Have you ever fired a rifle? The recoil force is exactly the same whether you fire it under water or in air. Recoil force is independent of the surrounding medium. Conservation of momentum is demonstrated in many ways: billiard balls, "Newton's Cradle", spinning tops and skaters.... and in no case is there any requirement of "something to push against". Rockets work by conservation of momentum, nothing else. You chuck stuff out of the back and the rocket moves forward so that the net change in momentum is zero."

In fact, I have often seen this 'bullet-recoil' argument being brought up by folks convinced by the feasibility of space propulsion - and I remember reading on some other forum that burning rocket fuel basically works like the flow of bullets fired out of a machine gun: what propels a spacecraft, it is argued, is the mass of the exploding fuel recoiling against the combustion chamber coupled with the momentum of the exhausts rapidly expelled out of the nozzle, yet - ( and this is clearly / strongly argued ) - these same, supersonic exhausts do no work whatsoever as they impact the atmosphere (not even at sea-level). As it is, the consensus among these people seems to be that rockets work exclusively by 'recoil effect' and 'rapid mass / momentum transfer' - and that no analogy whatsoever can be made between a jet engine and a rocket engine - as far as the very nature of their propulsion forces is concerned.

Fair enough. So with this theory in mind, I have decided to set up an experiment. On the beach.

THE MIDGET-SOLDIER ROCKET PROJECT

I have this midget soldier (my little Italian trooper only weighs in at 50kg or so) that I wish to launch and briefly propel upwards (in the atmosphere, that is - i am not even thinking of reaching the 'vacuum' of space for now!). Looking around for the 'world's fastest machine gun' I have also found this remarkable Russian machine gun, the "SKHAS Ultra" used in WWII - capable of firing 3000 (yes, three-thousand) rounds per minute - i.e. 50 rounds per second.

ShKAS machine gun specifications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShKAS_machine_gun



Now, the basic specifications of the Ariane 5 rocket :



Weight of Ariane 5 rocket: 760.000 kg
Mass of fuel ejected per second : 2000 kg / s
Ratio of fuel-weight expelled per second / vs vessel weight: 1/380
(in other words, 0.263 % of total vessel weight is expelled every second)
Exhaust velocity (at sea level) : 2749 m/s

As compared to :

Weight of midget soldier + machine gun + 650 rounds of ammunition: 50+10+40 = 100 kg
Mass of 50 rounds (of 24g each) fired per second : 1.2 kg
Ratio of rounds expelled each second / vs soldier+gun assembly: 1/83
(in other words, 1.2 % of total vessel weight is expelled every second)
Muzzle exit velocity : 825 m/s

So, let's see: my 'vessel' (i.e. the midget soldier and his machine gun & ammunition) is :

About 4.5 X superior (more efficient) in terms of mass expelled per second / vs vessel weight
About 3.3 X times inferior (slower) in terms of 'muzzle / exhaust exit velocity'.

By the looks of it - and since my mass-ejected-per-second-ratio is 4.5 X superior to that of the Ariane rocket - this looks promising, yet I'm a bit worried that my exit velocity (of my 'rocket fuel' - i.e. the bullets of my machine gun) is inferior to the Ariane rocket's.

I'm currently stuck at a more profound / momentous question:

Will my midget soldier take off at all - and briefly soar up in the skies? If not - WHY NOT?
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #304 on: July 28, 2019, 07:18:45 AM »
I am here to laugh at you!!!
Well that seems to be one of the few things you are capable of.
You are certainly yet to present any rational argument to back up your nonsense.

This one question destroys your position:
What force causes the gas to leave the rocket and what other body is involved?

The only options are to reject physics or accept rockets work in space.
No, the options aren't to reject physics. The option is to reject explanations that are not based on genuine physics but bullied into the psyche of the masses.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #305 on: July 28, 2019, 07:43:38 AM »
The Flat Earth Society is a controlled opposition group that mixes lies with satire to discredit genuine geocentric, anti-NASA research, a job they have been doing for a long time now.  Founded in 1970 by Leo Ferrari, a suspected Freemason and philosophy professor at St. Thomas' University, Leo spent his life making a mockery of the legitimate subject of our geocentric Earth. Though he passed away in 2010, his Flat Earth Society still exists today online as a website/forum which, still true to form, purports extremely stupid flat-Earth arguments (in contrast to somewhat less stupid flat-Earth arguments) and treats the entire subject  of geocentric truth (disguised in flat-earth theory), as well as of anti-NASA SPACE TRAVELLING FRAUD truth, anti-BIG BANG COSMOLOGY truth, anti-EINSTEINIAN PHYSICS truth, anti-DARWINISTIC truth, anti 9/11 OFFICIAL STORY truth, anti GLOBAL WARMING truth, etc... as a dead-pan joke.

The above is so convoluted that I actually cannot tell whether you support or deny Darwin, Einstein, 9/11, and climate change.

I get it that you believe in a geocentric universe, and you don't like the Flat-Earth Society, but I cannot figure out now whether you believe that the Earth is flat or a ball.

Would you please clarify your positions for me?:

Is the Earth flat or is it a ball?
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you believe in Relativity physics?
Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?
And while I'm asking, how old do believe the Earth to be? Either exact or approximate is fine.

Thanks in advance for clarifying your views.

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cikljamas

  • 2432
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #306 on: July 28, 2019, 09:14:35 AM »

1. Do you believe in evolution?
2. Do you believe in Relativity physics?
3. Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?
4. And while I'm asking, how old do believe the Earth to be? Either exact or approximate is fine.
5. Is the Earth flat or is it a ball?

Thanks in advance for clarifying your views.

1. No, i know it's bullshit
2. No, i know it's bullshit
3. No, i know it's bullshit
4. Approximately 10 - 20 000 years
5. It's a ball!!!

How do i know all this???

Feel free to read the pinned comment below this video :


« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 09:17:20 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #307 on: July 28, 2019, 10:35:50 AM »
Whats it like to live with so much paranoia?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #308 on: July 28, 2019, 01:11:55 PM »
The Flat Earth Society is a controlled opposition group that mixes lies with satire to discredit genuine geocentric, anti-NASA research, a job they have been doing for a long time now.  Founded in 1970 by Leo Ferrari, a suspected Freemason and philosophy professor at St. Thomas' University, Leo spent his life making a mockery of the legitimate subject of our geocentric Earth. Though he passed away in 2010, his Flat Earth Society still exists today online as a website/forum which, still true to form, purports extremely stupid flat-Earth arguments (in contrast to somewhat less stupid flat-Earth arguments) and treats the entire subject  of geocentric truth (disguised in flat-earth theory), as well as of anti-NASA SPACE TRAVELLING FRAUD truth, anti-BIG BANG COSMOLOGY truth, anti-EINSTEINIAN PHYSICS truth, anti-DARWINISTIC truth, anti 9/11 OFFICIAL STORY truth, anti GLOBAL WARMING truth, etc... as a dead-pan joke.

The above is so convoluted that I actually cannot tell whether you support or deny Darwin, Einstein, 9/11, and climate change.

I get it that you believe in a geocentric universe, and you don't like the Flat-Earth Society, but I cannot figure out now whether you believe that the Earth is flat or a ball.

Would you please clarify your positions for me?:

Is the Earth flat or is it a ball?
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you believe in Relativity physics?
Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?
And while I'm asking, how old do believe the Earth to be? Either exact or approximate is fine.

Thanks in advance for clarifying your views.

Would you also be so kind to clarify your position, mage?

Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #309 on: July 28, 2019, 01:29:08 PM »
Cikljamas, your toy soldier is going nowhere, except maybe to the emergency department with a dislocated shoulder or bullet wound to the face from a ricochet.

The individual mass of each expelled round is simply too small compared to the size of your midget. Type in "Rocketman" on YouTube and have a look at how rockets strapped to a person's back can carry an average sized adult up into the sky, and look closely at how those rockets work. 

Does being a government employee qualify a person being a "NASA shill", in your view?

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JackBlack

  • 21703
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #310 on: July 28, 2019, 03:02:32 PM »
I see you still failed to address the question.
Why?

What force causes the gas to leave the rocket and what other body is involved?

The only options are to reject physics or accept rockets work in space.

So, let's see: my 'vessel' (i.e. the midget soldier and his machine gun & ammunition) is :
About 4.5 X superior (more efficient) in terms of mass expelled per second / vs vessel weight
About 3.3 X times inferior (slower) in terms of 'muzzle / exhaust exit velocity'.
You mean the Ariane is 3.3 times faster.

As a simple approach you can use the rocket thrust equation and ignore the pressure term.
So just taking your numbers for the machine gun, the force will be 1.2 kg/s * 825 m/s = 990 N.
Assuming it is going straight up, then the force it needs to provide just needs to counter gravity, and thus for a 100 kg load needs to be roughly 980 N.

But quickly checking, your numbers are off. The bullet weight isn't 24 g. That is the weight of the entire round, including the gas and cartridge which would be ejected at much slower speeds.
The actual bullet, which is what leaves at the quoted speed is only 9.6 g, or 0.4 times the mass you used. That means the thrust would be roughly 0.4 times the previously calculated thrust or 396 N.
That isn't even enough to lift your 50 kg person.

If you have a correct percentage you can also simplify it a bit.
If the percentage mass flow rate multiplied by the velocity is greater than g (roughly 9.8 m/s^2), it can fly.
Sticking in the original numbers you gave for the gun person that gives 9.9. Correcting it to the actual bullet (0.48%) you only get 3.96. So you aren't going to fly.

As for the Ariane, that is quite a bit more complex. It has 2 boosters and a core, each throwing out some mass at some velocity. And there are different models. I hate it when companies do that.
The 2 boosters give a collective 3429 kg/s mass flow rate.
The core gives 315 kg/s.

So that is already quite different to what you have said. That is 3744 kg/s, or 0.49% of the mass of the rocket.

So when both numbers are corrected, you end up with the Ariane ejecting a slightly larger fraction of its mass per second than the gun is (at least when focusing on the quickly moving ejected parts).

So in reality your comparison would be:
Ariane is about 1x the fractional mass flow rate.
Ariane is about 3x the velocity.

But I can't find the numbers for the velocity anywhere.
But if I just take your word for it, then we end up with a thrust of 10292256 N, enough to lift a ~ 1 million kg object.


The option is to reject explanations that are not based on genuine physics but bullied into the psyche of the masses.
No, the physics being discussed are based firmly upon reality and confirmed by mountains of evidence.
You not liking these laws of physics doesn't mean they aren't real.
So the option remain the same:
Reject physics, or accept rockets work in space.

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magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #311 on: July 28, 2019, 04:14:30 PM »

1. Do you believe in evolution?
2. Do you believe in Relativity physics?
3. Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?
4. And while I'm asking, how old do believe the Earth to be? Either exact or approximate is fine.
5. Is the Earth flat or is it a ball?

Thanks in advance for clarifying your views.

1. No, i know it's bullshit
2. No, i know it's bullshit
3. No, i know it's bullshit
4. Approximately 10 - 20 000 years
5. It's a ball!!!

Thank you for the clarification.


Would you also be so kind to clarify your position, mage?

Is the Earth flat or is it a ball?
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you believe in Relativity physics?
Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?
And while I'm asking, how old do believe the Earth to be? Either exact or approximate is fine.

Happy to clarify my views on the same subject. (Though I will not engage in arguments over them, since I have no agenda to convince you or anyone else.)

1. It's flat.

2. All life on Earth evolved from earlier forms by the process of natural selection. I lean towards Stephen Jay Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium, that most evolution occurs during geologically brief episodes, separated by relatively long periods of stasis.

3. Relativity physics is correct, though incomplete since it breaks down at quantum length scales. For the very big, the very fast, and the very massive, it correctly describes how stuff works.

4. The climate is changing in ways that are disastrous for humans, and human activity is responsible for nearly all of it.

5. The Earth is around 4.5 billion years old, give or take a few hundred million.

And while I'm at it, Neil Armstrong and several others over the course of the latter Apollo missions, walked on the moon. Considering that they and NASA thought that their chances of making it back alive were around 50/50, I would not have wanted to go in their place. These were brave men indeed, as are all the men and women who have gone into space.

Happy to state my views. I know you regard them as incompatible. I feel no need to defend them. I respect everybody's views.

P.S. And clearly rockets work in space because otherwise Armstrong and the others could not have gotten to the moon.

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Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #312 on: July 28, 2019, 04:21:41 PM »
There is absolutely NO WAY you can believe in a flat earth and NASA moonlandings!

You are, of course, free to SAY you believe these things, but no, you are wrong.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #313 on: July 28, 2019, 06:22:36 PM »
Something I have noticed in various forums discussing the subject of space propulsion is exemplified by this other comment - by "alancalverd", a supporter of PmbPhy's arguments on the Naked Scientists forum. At one point, alancalverd says :

"Have you ever fired a rifle? The recoil force is exactly the same whether you fire it under water or in air. Recoil force is independent of the surrounding medium. Conservation of momentum is demonstrated in many ways: billiard balls, "Newton's Cradle", spinning tops and skaters.... and in no case is there any requirement of "something to push against". Rockets work by conservation of momentum, nothing else. You chuck stuff out of the back and the rocket moves forward so that the net change in momentum is zero."

In fact, I have often seen this 'bullet-recoil' argument being brought up by folks convinced by the feasibility of space propulsion - and I remember reading on some other forum that burning rocket fuel basically works like the flow of bullets fired out of a machine gun: what propels a spacecraft, it is argued, is the mass of the exploding fuel recoiling against the combustion chamber coupled with the momentum of the exhausts rapidly expelled out of the nozzle, yet - ( and this is clearly / strongly argued ) - these same, supersonic exhausts do no work whatsoever as they impact the atmosphere (not even at sea-level). As it is, the consensus among these people seems to be that rockets work exclusively by 'recoil effect' and 'rapid mass / momentum transfer' - and that no analogy whatsoever can be made between a jet engine and a rocket engine - as far as the very nature of their propulsion forces is concerned.

Fair enough. So with this theory in mind, I have decided to set up an experiment. On the beach.

THE MIDGET-SOLDIER ROCKET PROJECT
I have this midget soldier (my little Italian trooper only weighs in at 50kg or so) that I wish to launch and briefly propel upwards (in the atmosphere, that is - i am not even thinking of reaching the 'vacuum' of space for now!). Looking around for the 'world's fastest machine gun' I have also found this remarkable Russian machine gun, the "SKHAS Ultra" used in WWII - capable of firing 3000 (yes, three-thousand) rounds per minute - i.e. 50 rounds per second.

ShKAS machine gun specifications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShKAS_machine_gun
<< No need for a picture: RUSSIAN-SOLDIER-ROCKETRUSSIAN-SOLDIER-ROCKET >>

Now, the basic specifications of the Ariane 5 rocket :
<< No need for a picture: ARIANE-5 >>

Weight of Ariane 5 rocket: 760.000 kg
Mass of fuel ejected per second : 2000 kg / s
Incorrect! The Arianne 5 has a central core and two booster with a total Mass of fuel ejected per second 3658 kg/sec.
Quote from: cikljamas
Ratio of fuel-weight expelled per second / vs vessel weight: 1/380
(in other words, 0.263 % of total vessel weight is expelled every second)
Exhaust velocity (at sea level) : 2749 m/s
Incorrect!
Quote from: cikljamas

As compared to :
Weight of midget soldier + machine gun + 650 rounds of ammunition: 50+10+40 = 100 kg
Mass of 50 rounds (of 24g each) fired per second : 1.2 kg
Incorrect! The mass of the 7.62 mm projectile is only 9.6 grams.
Quote from: cikljamas
Ratio of rounds expelled each second / vs soldier+gun assembly: 1/83
(in other words, 1.2 % of total vessel weight is expelled every second)
Muzzle exit velocity : 825 m/s

So, let's see: my 'vessel' (i.e. the midget soldier and his machine gun & ammunition) is :

About 4.5 X superior (more efficient) in terms of mass expelled per second / vs vessel weight
About 3.3 X times inferior (slower) in terms of 'muzzle / exhaust exit velocity'.

By the looks of it - and since my mass-ejected-per-second-ratio is 4.5 X superior to that of the Ariane rocket - this looks promising, yet I'm a bit worried that my exit velocity (of my 'rocket fuel' - i.e. the bullets of my machine gun) is inferior to the Ariane rocket's.

I'm currently stuck at a more profound / momentous question:

Will my midget soldier take off at all - and briefly soar up in the skies? If not - WHY NOT?
No, your midget soldier will not take off at all because the thrust generated, (mass ejected per second) x (velocity of that mass), is insufficient to lift him!
But the Arianne 5 rocket will take off because the thrust generated is greater than the lift-off mass of the rocket.

First we'll check on your soldier. I looked up your ShKAS machine gun specifications and found that
Quote
7.62 mm ammunition specifications
  • Bullet weight: 148 grains (9.6 grams)
  • Round weight: 370 grains (24 grams)
So NOT  of "of 24g each" but only of 9.6 grams each - quite a difference I'd say!
You claim this:
Mass of 50 rounds (of 24g each) fired per second : 1.2 kg
Ratio of rounds expelled each second / vs soldier+gun assembly: 1/83
(in other words, 1.2 % of total vessel weight is expelled every second)
Muzzle exit velocity: 825 m/s
     But I find that:
Mass of 50 rounds (of 9.6g each) fired per second:  0.48 kg
Ratio of mass-expelled each second/soldier+gun assembly: (0.48 kg/100 kg) = 1/83 - not that it means anything!
(in other words, 1.2 % of total vessel weight is expelled every second)
Muzzle exit velocity: 825 m/s
So the ratio of mass ejected per second/total mass: 0.48/100 = 208 not that it means anything here!
And the average thrust on the soldier would be (mass per second) x (Muzzle exit velocity) or (0.48 kg) x (825 m/s) = 396 Newtons or about 40 kg.

Your soldier might isn't going anywhere!

Then let's look at a real Arianne 5:, including it's two solid rocket boosters that provide most of the lift-off thrust
Quote
Ariane 5 utilizes two solid boosters, each standing more than 30 meters tall with 237.8 metric tons of propellant. The boosters are ignited on the launchpad once the main cryogenic stage’s Vulcain engine has stabilized its thrust output. They deliver more than 90 percent of the launcher’s total thrust at the start of flight and burn for 130 sec. before they are separated over a designated zone of the Atlantic Ocean.
Each burns "237.8 metric tons of propellant" in "130 sec" or an average total fuel burn rate of (2 x 237.8/130) = 3658 kg/sec with an effective exhaust velocity of 2459 m/s.
So the thrust of each booster is about 4,497 kN or 457,308 kg.

In addition, the Arianne 5 has a core stage which at sea-level burns about 315 kg/sec and has an effective exhaust velocity of about 3049 m/s.
So the thrust of the core stage is about 960 kN or 97,593 kg.

The Arianne 5 burns a total of 3658 kg/sec for the boosters plus about 315 kg/sec for the core or a total mass burn rate of 3658 kg/sec.
And the ratio of fuel-mass expelled per second / vs vessel mass: (3658 kg/752,260 kg) = 1/205 - not that it means anything!

Hence the total thrust is about 2 x 457,308 + 97,593 = 1,012,208 kg.
And the launch mass is about 2 x 278,330 (boosters) + 184,700 (core stage) + 10,900 (second stage) = 752,260 kg.
Maybe I'm a bit out but it seems reasonable and the mass falls off at 3658 kg/sec.

So you soldier with 40 kg thrust and a total mass of 100 kg is going nowhere!
But the Arianne 5 with a total thrust of 1,012,208 kg and a total mass of 752,260 kg is headed for orbit!

I fail to see the point of your whole post! You've shown that a burst from a machine gun causes a force insufficient to lift the person firing it and
the exhaust gas expelled from an Arianne 5 causes a force on the rocket quite sufficient to send it into orbit - congratulations!

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magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #314 on: July 28, 2019, 09:37:29 PM »
There is absolutely NO WAY you can believe in a flat earth and NASA moonlandings!

If this is what you think, you do not understand the workings of the human brain.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #315 on: July 29, 2019, 12:32:12 AM »
There is absolutely NO WAY you can believe in a flat earth and NASA moonlandings!

It’s a tragic and cautionary tale.

Once there was a regular flat earther and a regular regular person.  No one remembers their original names.

They tried to combine their knowledge of science and pseudo science together to create a matter transporter.  All was looking good until they stepped into the pods themselves.

What came out were scrambled versions of their former selves.

cikljamas belives everything flat earthers believe, except the bit about the earth being flat.

magellanclavichord belives the earth is flat, but none of the other stuff.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #316 on: July 29, 2019, 01:43:07 AM »
There is absolutely NO WAY you can believe in a flat earth and NASA moonlandings!

If this is what you think, you do not understand the workings of the human brain.

Ok, cool. So, you are happy man walked on the moon, but that all the photos taken from the moon of the earth which unmistakably shows the earth in all it's roundness, is fake. Am I on the right track?


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JackBlack

  • 21703
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #317 on: July 29, 2019, 01:54:26 AM »
Ok, cool. So, you are happy man walked on the moon, but that all the photos taken from the moon of the earth which unmistakably shows the earth in all it's roundness, is fake. Am I on the right track?
You misunderstand him.
He thinks Earth appears to be round in every way, but is flat.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #318 on: July 29, 2019, 06:55:14 AM »

1. Do you believe in evolution?
2. Do you believe in Relativity physics?
3. Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?
4. And while I'm asking, how old do believe the Earth to be? Either exact or approximate is fine.
5. Is the Earth flat or is it a ball?

Thanks in advance for clarifying your views.

1. No, i know it's bullshit
2. No, i know it's bullshit
3. No, i know it's bullshit
4. Approximately 10 - 20 000 years
5. It's a ball!!!

Thank you for the clarification.


Would you also be so kind to clarify your position, mage?

Is the Earth flat or is it a ball?
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you believe in Relativity physics?
Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?
And while I'm asking, how old do believe the Earth to be? Either exact or approximate is fine.

Happy to clarify my views on the same subject. (Though I will not engage in arguments over them, since I have no agenda to convince you or anyone else.)

1. It's flat.

2. All life on Earth evolved from earlier forms by the process of natural selection. I lean towards Stephen Jay Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium, that most evolution occurs during geologically brief episodes, separated by relatively long periods of stasis.

3. Relativity physics is correct, though incomplete since it breaks down at quantum length scales. For the very big, the very fast, and the very massive, it correctly describes how stuff works.

4. The climate is changing in ways that are disastrous for humans, and human activity is responsible for nearly all of it.

5. The Earth is around 4.5 billion years old, give or take a few hundred million.

And while I'm at it, Neil Armstrong and several others over the course of the latter Apollo missions, walked on the moon. Considering that they and NASA thought that their chances of making it back alive were around 50/50, I would not have wanted to go in their place. These were brave men indeed, as are all the men and women who have gone into space.

Happy to state my views. I know you regard them as incompatible. I feel no need to defend them. I respect everybody's views.

P.S. And clearly rockets work in space because otherwise Armstrong and the others could not have gotten to the moon.

Thats not really what was asked.


"Would you also be so kind to clarify your position, mage?

Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?"

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magellanclavichord

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #319 on: July 29, 2019, 07:08:21 AM »
What was asked was to clarify my position on five points. I did.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #320 on: July 29, 2019, 07:14:53 AM »
Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?

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Rayzor

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #321 on: July 29, 2019, 10:40:13 AM »
Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?

Subjective reality?

Anyway,  some have the view that the it's space itself that is curved giving the appearance of being spherical  ( oblate or otherwise ) when it's really flat. 

Something to do with orbiting satellites travelling in straight lines,  if I recall correctly.   I probably explained that wrong.

On another note,  silk pajamas has more than a few problems coping with reality,  I'd suggest,  go easy on him he's trying to understand the world in terms that he can relate to. He's allowed to be wrong if he wants to,  likewise I'm sure none of us is ever "right" all the time. 

« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 10:43:25 AM by JerkFace »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Crutchwater

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #322 on: July 29, 2019, 10:43:54 AM »
I'll stick with the hundreds of people who have traveled to space, and the many thousands who did the calculations and engineering to get them there.

Their words mean much more than a random internet dude!
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #323 on: July 29, 2019, 11:53:55 AM »
Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?

We've been through this before: I'm happy to state my position. I have no interest in arguing or justifying it to anyone.  :)

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #324 on: July 29, 2019, 02:56:04 PM »
Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?

We've been through this before: I'm happy to state my position. I have no interest in arguing or justifying it to anyone.  :)

aahya but you haven't stated anything.
and no we haven't even got to the debating part which of course you're free to ignore which clearly the others have jumped on without knowing anything about your actual position.

you've stated it's flat.
you've stated "they" (scientists) are right.

can we claim that's a position?
possibly i guess.
answer your on position questions that reveal nothing.
troll on then.

kind of funny you feel you can call out other FEs and debate the merits of their POV.
too bad so sad they are brave enough, on an anonymous forum, to actually tell all their views and face ridicule.
hypocrite on then.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #325 on: July 29, 2019, 02:57:17 PM »
Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?

Subjective reality?

Anyway,  some have the view that the it's space itself that is curved giving the appearance of being spherical  ( oblate or otherwise ) when it's really flat. 

Something to do with orbiting satellites travelling in straight lines,  if I recall correctly.   I probably explained that wrong.

On another note,  silk pajamas has more than a few problems coping with reality,  I'd suggest,  go easy on him he's trying to understand the world in terms that he can relate to. He's allowed to be wrong if he wants to,  likewise I'm sure none of us is ever "right" all the time.

after mage...pajamas isn't interesting.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #326 on: July 29, 2019, 02:58:00 PM »
What was asked was to clarify my position on five points. I did.

those five points were not what was asked.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #327 on: July 29, 2019, 02:59:11 PM »
There is absolutely NO WAY you can believe in a flat earth and NASA moonlandings!

It’s a tragic and cautionary tale.

Once there was a regular flat earther and a regular regular person.  No one remembers their original names.

They tried to combine their knowledge of science and pseudo science together to create a matter transporter.  All was looking good until they stepped into the pods themselves.

What came out were scrambled versions of their former selves.

cikljamas belives everything flat earthers believe, except the bit about the earth being flat.

magellanclavichord belives the earth is flat, but none of the other stuff.

haha


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PS:
how to get image to be imbedded vs link?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 03:00:55 PM by Themightykabool »

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #328 on: July 29, 2019, 03:01:11 PM »
Why do you feel the earth to be flat when you also claim all (mainstream) science is correct EXCEPT when it comes to the shape of the planet?

We've been through this before: I'm happy to state my position. I have no interest in arguing or justifying it to anyone.  :)

Your position reminds me of all the straight people in the 90's who pretended to be gay because it was fashionable. I hope your strategy is working well for you in increasing your social status..... ;)

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cikljamas

  • 2432
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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #329 on: July 30, 2019, 03:20:28 AM »
There is absolutely NO WAY you can believe in a flat earth and NASA moonlandings!

It’s a tragic and cautionary tale.

Once there was a regular flat earther and a regular regular person.  No one remembers their original names.

They tried to combine their knowledge of science and pseudo science together to create a matter transporter.  All was looking good until they stepped into the pods themselves.

What came out were scrambled versions of their former selves.

cikljamas belives everything flat earthers believe, except the bit about the earth being flat.

magellanclavichord belives the earth is flat, but none of the other stuff.

Well, believing and knowing are two different things. If you are a believer, then you are gullible, and you can fall into the trap of many scams. For a believer, if something sounds good, he or she will believe it instantaneously. So, it is extremely important that you feed your mind with the right information.

In order to illustrate the difference between knowing and believing i am going to quote here one very interesting short exchange of thoughts :

MacAndrew: ...that it doesn’t “react with baryonic matter” but with “electromagnetic and gravitational activity” (seeGWW, Vol 1, page 263).[6] How can he possibly know these things? His claims are vague, unquantified and entirely unsatisfactory to physicists, they arise without rhyme or reason, and he never explains how he has come by them. Their empirical and mathematical foundation remains a mystery. The undeniable fact is that he’s just making it up. His kind of knowledge is like that of a child who just knows her imaginary friend is wearing a blue dress and has brown eyes. It’s a fantasy.

R.Sungenis: Of course, since we see that Mr. MacAndrew didn’t get past page 263 in his reading of GWW, he is prone to make his own straw man to beat up. If he read toward the end of Volume 1, and into Volume 2, he would have found out why I say these things. (But in MacAndrew’s world it is better to jump to conclusions and name‐call your opponent than read his notes). 

We know that the Planck aether reacts with EM activity because we see fringe shifts in all the interferometer experiments, particularly the 1887 and 1925 Michelson experiments (something that neither SRT or GRT can answer, since the fringe shifts discredit both SRT and GRT). Fringe shifts mean that something is interacting with the light beams. In fact, the very reason the light beams move at 3 x 10^8 m/s is because that is the only speed allowed in the Planck medium (unless the Planck medium is altered in some way, as it is when it has more tension). 

As for gravity and the Planck aether, since the density of the Planck aether is so great (10^94g/cm^3) it can:

(1) penetrate all baryonic matter. But since it cannot replace baryonic  matter,  the baryonic/Planck combination (as occurs, for example, in a typical planet) will create a huge vacuum against the pure Planck aether in space. This vacuum will attempt to compensate by pulling in any object that has less of a baryonic/Planck combination (less because it is smaller than the planet), and this is what we understand as gravity.

(2) Additionally, the Planck aether solves the gravity speed problem (Einstein limited gravity to c because of the demands of his SRT, but that slow speed for gravity simply doesn’t work). In a Planck aether universe, the speed of gravity is practically unlimited. Since the Planck aether is so dense, it can carry longitudinal waves or compression waves over the entire universe in a split second (about 10^‐11 seconds).

(3) Additionally, the Planck aether solves the “action‐at‐a‐distance” problem of Newton’s physics, as well as the problem of “entanglement.”  Newton had the problem that his theory of gravity required non‐locality, that is, gravity had to act upon objects instantaneously that were huge distances apart. This problem is solved by the instantaneous speed of gravity allowed by a Planck aether. In “entanglement” an electron in one place has a coupling with an electron in a different place. This instantaneous communication between electrons is allowed by the Planck aether. 

Read more : http://galileowaswrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MacAndrew-Walks-the-Planck.pdf

Here is an endorsement dr. Robert Sungenis received from Wolfgang Smith, a professor of physics and mathematics at MIT:

April 2010: “Dear Dr. Sungenis: Since writing to you two days ago to thank you for your letter and the gift of your two‐volume treatise, I have had a chance to peruse this  work  and  feel  compelled  to  congratulate  you  and  Dr.  Bennett  on  this outstanding achievement! Though I am not usually a loss for words, I find it hard to express my admiration for this masterpiece, which has no peer and constitutes without a doubt the definitive work on the subject of geocentrism...You are to be congratulated not only on your erudition and command of an incredibly vast subject matter, but also on the logical clarity of your presentation and lucidity of style. At your hands this subject of virtually unimaginable complexity becomes ‘almost’ simple, and certainly understandable (up to a point) to nonspecialists. Let me not swell this letter; perhaps I will get back to you on some specific points. Today I just wanted to express my admiration for your book, which strikes me as epochal in its implications...Yours sincerely in Christ, signed, Wolfgang Smith.”
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