HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2850 on: January 10, 2020, 06:45:18 AM »
I'm still waiting for scepti to explain how a rocket works when you point it down towards the earth surface.  What is the exhaust stacking against?
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hoppy

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2851 on: January 10, 2020, 07:47:02 AM »
I'm still waiting for scepti to explain how a rocket works when you point it down towards the earth surface.  What is the exhaust stacking against?
The rocket is still pushing on the atmosphere, it is obvious because there is nothing else there. What kind of drugs are you on that makes you so dense?
God is real.                                         
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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2852 on: January 10, 2020, 08:41:42 AM »
I'm still waiting for scepti to explain how a rocket works when you point it down towards the earth surface.  What is the exhaust stacking against?
The rocket is still pushing on the atmosphere, it is obvious because there is nothing else there. What kind of drugs are you on that makes you so dense?

Air stacks down and up.
So at some point between the foundation and the dome, things just float...


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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2853 on: January 10, 2020, 09:37:22 AM »
How do satellites get into position?
They don't.
Then you need to deal with what is faking them, where for GPS, with so much information available, the only option would be to completely blanket Earth in transmitters which would very noticeable and still has the potential for serious failure.
The only rational explanation for how GPS works is with satellites.
The places are blanketed in transmitters and many are atop skyscrapers, not to mention the every increasing amount of towers being built. They're all over, so don't be giving me that flannel.

They can't be in space because it doesn't exist.
All that is left is higher altitude for man made objects that can sit in it, such as helium/hydrogen, etc blimps or whatever can sit above a atmospheric cut off point to balanced out a buoyancy.


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sokarul

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2854 on: January 10, 2020, 09:42:54 AM »
I'm still waiting for scepti to explain how a rocket works when you point it down towards the earth surface.  What is the exhaust stacking against?
The rocket is still pushing on the atmosphere, it is obvious because there is nothing else there. What kind of drugs are you on that makes you so dense?
How much atmosphere does a 100 ton rocket push off of?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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rvlvr

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2855 on: January 10, 2020, 09:44:17 AM »
They can't be in space because it doesn't exist.
o_____O???

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2856 on: January 10, 2020, 09:45:39 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic
Most likely a helium/hydrogen vertical blimp/balloon like effort.
Stop being totally ridiculous and start facing the real world out there!

Do these look like "helium/hydrogen vertical blimp/balloon like" things?




And, like it or not, the International Space Station is up there.
You can see it with unaided eyes coming over at predicted times.
You can measure its transit time between locations thousands of kilometres apart and so a couple of people can determine its speed.

3 Observations, One ISS, One Conclusion - ISS IS VERY VERY FAST by WheresWa11y


You can photograph it with an ordinary camera or better through a telescope and see its shape.

Only someone quite out of touch with reality could possibly deny that something is up the travelling at about 7 km/sec and no helium balloon or aeroplane can do that.

But I guess if you are happy with your dreamland it doesn't really matter.
If you were told the starship enterprise was reaL you'd accept it.
If you were told both armageddon shuttles were real and were headed to blow an asteroid up, you'd believe it.
If you were told any of the star wars stuff was a reality, you'd believe it, because that's the business you're in. A belief and adherence to official narratives and mass opinion.

So you telling me those rockets are real space rockets is like telling me the pyramids are coal fired hovercrafts.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2857 on: January 10, 2020, 09:53:55 AM »
Scwpit needs to forget everything wrong with conventional physcis and focus on enlightening us.
Draw some arrows on your green bar already!

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Bullwinkle

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2858 on: January 10, 2020, 10:05:33 AM »

How much atmosphere does a 100 ton rocket push off of?

3,789 woodchucks.

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sokarul

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2859 on: January 10, 2020, 10:52:28 AM »

How much atmosphere does a 100 ton rocket push off of?

3,789 woodchucks.
Why would you post that when you know Iím just going to report it?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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hoppy

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2860 on: January 10, 2020, 11:23:44 AM »

How much atmosphere does a 100 ton rocket push off of?

3,789 woodchucks.
Why would you post that when you know Iím just going to report it?
Because he knows you're a jerk.
God is real.                                         
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Bullwinkle

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2861 on: January 10, 2020, 11:37:09 AM »

How much atmosphere does a 100 ton rocket push off of?

3,789 woodchucks.

Why would you post that when you know Iím just going to report it?

I have no control over what you choose to do.
I deleted your report.

BTW, rockets do not push off of anything external.
Thrust is an internal function of the unit.


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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2862 on: January 10, 2020, 12:02:59 PM »
If you were told the starship enterprise was reaL you'd accept it.
If you were told both armageddon shuttles were real and were headed to blow an asteroid up, you'd believe it.
If you were told any of the star wars stuff was a reality, you'd believe it, because that's the business you're in. A belief and adherence to official narratives and mass opinion.
That would depend on who is telling it and what evidence they provide to back it up.  As it happens, there are plenty of people who like to ruin science fiction movies by pointing out all of the science mistakes. Just do a Google search for "bad movie physics" and see how many results you get.


So you telling me those rockets are real space rockets is like telling me the pyramids are coal fired hovercrafts.
The thing is that we aren't just telling you, but we're also explaining how the space rockets work based on well known and well established scientific principles.  You're the one who is saying that everything that we think we know about physics is wrong and we should just take your word on how things really work.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2863 on: January 10, 2020, 01:21:26 PM »
How do satellites get into position?
They don't.
Then you need to deal with what is faking them, where for GPS, with so much information available, the only option would be to completely blanket Earth in transmitters which would very noticeable and still has the potential for serious failure.
The only rational explanation for how GPS works is with satellites.
The places are blanketed in transmitters and many are atop skyscrapers, not to mention the every increasing amount of towers being built. They're all over, so don't be giving me that flannel.

They can't be in space because it doesn't exist.
All that is left is higher altitude for man made objects that can sit in it, such as helium/hydrogen, etc blimps or whatever can sit above a atmospheric cut off point to balanced out a buoyancy.
Please provide links about GPS operation in this way.  How can you receive from GPS transmitters in the middle of deserts and oceans? 

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sokarul

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2864 on: January 10, 2020, 01:36:05 PM »

How much atmosphere does a 100 ton rocket push off of?

3,789 woodchucks.
Why would you post that when you know Iím just going to report it?
Because he knows you're a jerk.
Going to answer my question?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2865 on: January 10, 2020, 02:16:38 PM »
If you were told the starship enterprise was reaL you'd accept it.
If you were told both armageddon shuttles were real and were headed to blow an asteroid up, you'd believe it.
If you were told any of the star wars stuff was a reality, you'd believe it, because that's the business you're in. A belief and adherence to official narratives and mass opinion.
That would depend on who is telling it and what evidence they provide to back it up.  As it happens, there are plenty of people who like to ruin science fiction movies by pointing out all of the science mistakes.
Like me ;D, much to my wife's chagrin :(!

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Macarios

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2866 on: January 10, 2020, 03:28:33 PM »
I'm still waiting for scepti to explain how a rocket works when you point it down towards the earth surface.  What is the exhaust stacking against?
The rocket is still pushing on the atmosphere, it is obvious because there is nothing else there. What kind of drugs are you on that makes you so dense?

Dense? For not allowing to get forced by you into misconceptions?

Inside a rocket engine there is burning mixture of fuel and oxidizer.
The burn creates pressure that pushes in all directions.
At the nozzle side the pressure of 70 bar pushes (and carries) the exhaust out into open space (atmosphere or vacuum),
where the pressure is between 1 bar and 0 bar, depending on where the rocket is.
At the opposite side the chamber pressure (still 70 bar) pushes the closed side of the chamber
and "like a tidal wave" carries the engine, and the rocket with it.

Additionally, inside the nozzle funnel (and after it) the exhaust expands sideways as well.
On the angled funnel walls the expansion creates forces whose longitudinal components add to the rocket's acceleration.

So, when we patiently show you how rocket engine works in and out of atmosphere,
and you stubbornly keep denying and twisting the explanations, then who is really dense in the whole picture?
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2867 on: January 10, 2020, 06:06:28 PM »
And, like it or not, the International Space Station is up there.
You can see it with unaided eyes coming over at predicted times.
You can measure its transit time between locations thousands of kilometres apart and so a couple of people can determine its speed.

3 Observations, One ISS, One Conclusion - ISS IS VERY VERY FAST by WheresWa11y


You can photograph it with an ordinary camera or better through a telescope and see its shape.

Only someone quite out of touch with reality could possibly deny that something is up the travelling at about 7 km/sec and no helium balloon or aeroplane can do that.

But I guess if you are happy with your dreamland it doesn't really matter.
If you were told the starship enterprise was reaL you'd accept it.
No, I would dismiss it unless it could be shown to be possible and even I'd need evidence that I could believe.

Quote from: sceptimatic
If you were told both armageddon shuttles were real and were headed to blow an asteroid up, you'd believe it.
I wouldn't believe any of that unless it could be backed by independent evidence.
Of course, you believe that there's a millennia old conspiracy (started by NASA ;D) to hide "THE TRUTH" but I don't.

Sure, spacecraft have been sent to rendezvous with asteroids - why is that a problem?

The real problem is whether any current technology could guarantee to deflect the asteroid.
Nuclear weapons are puny compared to asteroids posing a serious threat.
Not only that but our predictions are not yet perfect and a near miss might be turned into a collision.

Quote from: sceptimatic
If you were told any of the star wars stuff was a reality, you'd believe it, because that's the business you're in. A belief and adherence to official narratives and mass opinion.
No, I most certainly would not consider that Star Wars trash was real! You ask my wife what I think of Star Wars Space Westerns!

I dont believe things simply because I'm told! I examine the evidence and make sure that I can understand that such things are feasible.

And rockets in a vacuum present not the slightest problem because they fit with what I have understood from physics for decades.

In fact I'm such a sceptic that when transistors were first announced I simply said "That is impossible ???!  How can electrons be controlled ina solid?  Someone is trying to fool us!"
Little did I know that semiconductors were very real, though then rather primitive, and that much of my working life would be designing systems using them.

Quote from: sceptimatic
So you telling me those rockets are real space rockets is like telling me the pyramids are coal fired hovercrafts.
It's not my problem that you are unable to accept reality.
"Real space rockets" are eminently feasible and I and most others understand why and how they work.
Not the slightest problem at all!

Your "coal fired pyramid hovercraft" is quite out of the realm of feasibility though not totally impossible.

The only possibly reason that i can see for you failure to understand rockets is that admitting that they are real would totally destroy your "world-view".

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rvlvr

  • 2004
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2868 on: January 11, 2020, 01:15:43 AM »
Ipse dixit vs quite a lot of work put into said fields of science and engineering. Tons of gall needed to make that work to oneís advantage.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2869 on: January 11, 2020, 06:08:26 AM »


Btw, can you verify you are not Heiwa?

It depends on what evidence you'd expect me to provide.
Have a think about it and let's see if I can verify I'm not Heiwa.

Also can you verify you're not Jackblack and Rabinoz?

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2870 on: January 11, 2020, 06:11:42 AM »
I'm still waiting for scepti to explain how a rocket works when you point it down towards the earth surface.  What is the exhaust stacking against?
The exhaust or the burn?

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2871 on: January 11, 2020, 06:12:49 AM »

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2872 on: January 11, 2020, 06:18:40 AM »
If you were told the starship enterprise was reaL you'd accept it.
If you were told both armageddon shuttles were real and were headed to blow an asteroid up, you'd believe it.
If you were told any of the star wars stuff was a reality, you'd believe it, because that's the business you're in. A belief and adherence to official narratives and mass opinion.
That would depend on who is telling it and what evidence they provide to back it up.  As it happens, there are plenty of people who like to ruin science fiction movies by pointing out all of the science mistakes. Just do a Google search for "bad movie physics" and see how many results you get.

Correct, it will depend on who is telling the stories or who sells the storylines for fiction told as fact or fact told as legitimate fact.



Quote from: markjo
So you telling me those rockets are real space rockets is like telling me the pyramids are coal fired hovercrafts.
The thing is that we aren't just telling you, but we're also explaining how the space rockets work based on well known and well established scientific principles.  You're the one who is saying that everything that we think we know about physics is wrong and we should just take your word on how things really work.
No you're not. You're telling me how space rockets work because you were told they work on the principles you decided were a truth, without proof.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2873 on: January 11, 2020, 06:24:53 AM »
Ipse dixit vs quite a lot of work put into said fields of science and engineering. Tons of gall needed to make that work to oneís advantage.
That depends on what fields are being argued and what truth there is in those fields.

It's ok to say a lot of work is put into those scientific fields but you need to actually know the work put in is actually the real work put into what is being argued against.


Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2874 on: January 11, 2020, 06:46:59 AM »
Fix your drawing or tells us why the green bar doesnt exert a force on the balloon

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2875 on: January 11, 2020, 01:31:56 PM »
Come on guys.  Less than 5 pages to go to get another scepti century thread.
I'm only on page 58.

The rocket is still pushing on the atmosphere, it is obvious because there is nothing else there. What kind of drugs are you on that makes you so dense?
No, it isn't obvious at all.

There is something else there, something very obvious; the gas which is being ejected at a very high velocity.

Again, can you address the issue that has been plaguing the reality deniers from near the start of this thread?
What causes the gas to leave the rocket (especially in a vacuum).
The only thing it can push off to leave is the rocket (either directly or indirectly by pushing on the gas which in turn pushes the rocket).

That would mean that the rocket is pushed by the gas as it pushes the gas away.
No need for the atmosphere.

The places are blanketed in transmitters and many are atop skyscrapers
That is still not blanketed to the level needed for GPS, and I don't see many skyscrapers or the like out of cities.

Your argument would only work if GPS only worked in cities.

So don't give me that crap.

They can't be in space because it doesn't exist.
Except that is the only place they can be, so space must exist.
Again, you have provided absolutely no justification for the nonexistence of space, or for rockets nor working in a vacuum, or even how they work anywhere.

If you were told the starship enterprise was reaL you'd accept it.
No, I would reject it as it relies upon pure fantasy.

If you were told both armageddon shuttles were real and were headed to blow an asteroid up, you'd believe it.
No, I would reject it unless they told me the "asteroid" they were going to blow up was more appropriately called a tiny rock.

Your entire argument is based upon assuming we are all gullible fools that are incapable of thinking and will just accept whatever BS is spouted so you can then just dismiss everything as BS.

How about you stop with the insults and try defending your nonsense?
Tell us how the gas accelerates to leave the tube in a vacuum?
Tell us what it is pushing against.
Do the same for when it is in the atmosphere.
Draw a diagram showing the arrow of force on the rocket, or provide an actual explanation of exactly what forces the rocket up and where this force is applied.
Tell us how 2 objects separated by a spring will magically stop when the spring is relaxed, even though there is no force on them to make them stop?

Correct, it will depend on who is telling the stories or who sells the storylines for fiction told as fact or fact told as legitimate fact.
And you left out the key part, EVIDENCE!
That is something you are severely lacking, but which plenty exists for rockets.
You need to reject all that for rockets with a massive conspiracy which is pure insanity, all so you can cling to your FE fantasy.

Now again, how about you stop with the insults and distractions and deal with one of the major issues plaguing your claims.

Tell us how the gas accelerates in a vacuum, or provide a diagram showing the forces acting on a rocket and the gas, clearly showing the action-reaction pairs.

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markjo

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2876 on: January 11, 2020, 02:18:04 PM »
Quote from: markjo
So you telling me those rockets are real space rockets is like telling me the pyramids are coal fired hovercrafts.
The thing is that we aren't just telling you, but we're also explaining how the space rockets work based on well known and well established scientific principles.  You're the one who is saying that everything that we think we know about physics is wrong and we should just take your word on how things really work.
No you're not. You're telling me how space rockets work because you were told they work on the principles you decided were a truth, without proof.
Newton's 3 laws have been proven to work just fine over and over again for hundreds of years.  It's your "pressure on pressure" that has yet to be proven.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2877 on: January 11, 2020, 02:55:30 PM »
Quote from: markjo
So you telling me those rockets are real space rockets is like telling me the pyramids are coal fired hovercrafts.
The thing is that we aren't just telling you, but we're also explaining how the space rockets work based on well known and well established scientific principles.  You're the one who is saying that everything that we think we know about physics is wrong and we should just take your word on how things really work.
No you're not. You're telling me how space rockets work because you were told they work on the principles you decided were a truth, without proof.
Newton's 3 laws have been proven to work just fine over and over again for hundreds of years.  It's your "pressure on pressure" that has yet to be proven.

Let alone be put down in a coherent diagram

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2878 on: January 13, 2020, 01:39:59 AM »
Fix your drawing or tells us why the green bar doesnt exert a force on the balloon
The bar is merely to show the crash compression from internal to the compression externally.
Now all you need to do is picture this happening in nano seconds until the fuel is depleted.

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rabinoz

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #2879 on: January 13, 2020, 02:40:57 AM »
Fix your drawing or tells us why the green bar doesnt exert a force on the balloon
The bar is merely to show the crash compression from internal to the compression externally.
Now all you need to do is picture this happening in nano seconds until the fuel is depleted.
What's this crap about "nano seconds"?
Do you even think about what you write? Apparently not!
The Falcon 9 second stage carries about 64,000 kg of propellant. It would impossible to burn that in nano seconds.

It fact that engine burns for over 6 1/2 minutes. Stop talking utter rubbish and face reality.