HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)

If the gauge is still registering pressure after the breach then pressure must still be exerting on the gauge for it to have a reading.

Only if the gauge reading shows gain or still pressure.
In case of the breach it does neither. It shows continuous loss.

So how can you say on the the one hand, the gauge is still reading pressure after the breach yet on the other hand no pressure is being applied to the gauge after the breach?

I didn't say it was still reading pressure. I said the pointer shows a lowering of the pressure by the pointer in a continuous motion, meaning it flows/expands away from the gauge, not at it.

Sceptis sponges have to be sentient in order to know which way is down.

Nope, only able to expand after contraction.

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 01:18:14 PM

If the gauge is still registering pressure after the breach then pressure must still be exerting on the gauge for it to have a reading.

Only if the gauge reading shows gain or still pressure.
In case of the breach it does neither. It shows continuous loss.

Quote from: Stash

So how can you say on the the one hand, the gauge is still reading pressure after the breach yet on the other hand no pressure is being applied to the gauge after the breach?

I didn't say it was still reading pressure. I said the pointer shows a lowering of the pressure by the pointer in a continuous motion, meaning it flows/expands away from the gauge, not at it.

If the gauge is showing pressure, whether it's going down, up, or remaining the same, it is still showing pressure, pressure that is still pushing against the gauge no matter how strong or weak, it's still registering pressure.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 03:20:11 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on November 13, 2019, 12:53:09 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 03:33:42 AM

Quote from: Stash

The valve is opened. The pressure gauge on top starts to drop as gas is exiting the valve. If the gauge is still registering a drop and doesn't instantaneously go right to zero:

And nor should it.

In reality, yes, as the pressure is still pushing on the gauge, because it doesn't just magically go straight out towards the opening and stopping every other direction.
For your model, it should go to 0, because you claim that the pressure is no longer pushing against it and thus the pressure it is measuring is 0.

You seriously need to make up your mind.
Is the pressure still pushing upwards on the gauge allowing it to read a pressure, or is it only pushing towards the opening, meaning no pressure on the gauge, meaning the gauge will read 0?

I don't need to make up my mind. It's made up and is consistent.
You simply refuse to grasp it.

Once the valve is opened the gauge now starts to reads a continuous lowering of pressure on the gauge. It means the gauge is not under pressure, it's losing that pressure because everything is expanding out.

How?
Massive expansion at the valve opening and gradually less expansion of molecules all the way to close to the gauge side, all pushing one way, which is why the gauge pointer continues to read lower and lower pressure.

That literally makes no logical sense. The gauge wouldn't read any pressure if it wasn't under some pressure. Hence the name, "pressure gauge".

If the gauge is not under pressure, it would immediately read 0.

The gauge can only read zero when it's allowed to get to that point.
But while there is still expanding molecules pushing each other out of the container at the opposite end, the gauge pointer has to wait its turn to follow suit, which it does by showing a continuous lowering towards the zero of the pointer, until it reads zero pressure, or equalises the external atmosphere.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 03:26:25 PM

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 01:18:14 PM

If the gauge is still registering pressure after the breach then pressure must still be exerting on the gauge for it to have a reading.

Only if the gauge reading shows gain or still pressure.
In case of the breach it does neither. It shows continuous loss.

Quote from: Stash

So how can you say on the the one hand, the gauge is still reading pressure after the breach yet on the other hand no pressure is being applied to the gauge after the breach?

I didn't say it was still reading pressure. I said the pointer shows a lowering of the pressure by the pointer in a continuous motion, meaning it flows/expands away from the gauge, not at it.

If the gauge is showing pressure, whether it's going down, up, or remaining the same, it is still showing pressure, pressure that is still pushing against the gauge no matter how strong or weak, it's still registering pressure.

It isn't pushing against the gauge at this point, unless the valve is closed and expansion is stopped and so would the needle, which means the pressure becomes equalised inside the container and shows as a still needle reading..

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 03:30:28 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 03:26:25 PM

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 01:18:14 PM

If the gauge is still registering pressure after the breach then pressure must still be exerting on the gauge for it to have a reading.

Only if the gauge reading shows gain or still pressure.
In case of the breach it does neither. It shows continuous loss.

Quote from: Stash

So how can you say on the the one hand, the gauge is still reading pressure after the breach yet on the other hand no pressure is being applied to the gauge after the breach?

I didn't say it was still reading pressure. I said the pointer shows a lowering of the pressure by the pointer in a continuous motion, meaning it flows/expands away from the gauge, not at it.

If the gauge is showing pressure, whether it's going down, up, or remaining the same, it is still showing pressure, pressure that is still pushing against the gauge no matter how strong or weak, it's still registering pressure.

It isn't pushing against the gauge at this point, unless the valve is closed and expansion is stopped and so would the needle, which means the pressure becomes equalised inside the container and shows as a still needle reading..

Again, logically, this makes no sense. If the gauge is reading anything, there is pressure causing the reading. That's the sole purpose of a gauge. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0.

Stash is trying to point out a flaw you wont directly admit to...

Again, logically, this makes no sense. If the gauge is reading anything, there is pressure causing the reading. That's the sole purpose of a gauge. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0.

It doesn't make sense to you because you're refusing to allow it to.

You refuse to understand that the expansion of molecules out of the opening means there is a chain reaction of expansion all the way to the back in different stages of expansion from larger at the front to smaller at the back.
All molecules using each other.

As each bunch of molecules expand, the gauge simple expands with them and starts to slowly move towards the zero, until expansion ceases.

There is nothing pushing back at the gauge. The gauge itself is decompressing along with the decompressing gas molecules.

Stash is trying to point out a flaw you wont directly admit to...

There is no flaw, which is why I have no reason to admit to one.

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 03:44:48 PM

Again, logically, this makes no sense. If the gauge is reading anything, there is pressure causing the reading. That's the sole purpose of a gauge. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0.

It doesn't make sense to you because you're refusing to allow it to.

You refuse to understand that the expansion of molecules out of the opening means there is a chain reaction of expansion all the way to the back in different stages of expansion from larger at the front to smaller at the back.
All molecules using each other.

As each bunch of molecules expand, the gauge simple expands with them and starts to slowly move towards the zero, until expansion ceases.

There is nothing pushing back at the gauge. The gauge itself is decompressing along with the decompressing gas molecules.

If there is no pressure against the pressure gauge the pressure gauge reads 0. That's what pressure gauges do, they read pressure. Anything above 0 is pressure.

When you yank the hose of your bicycle tire pump off the tire, the gauge doesn't go down in a progressive manner, it immediately jams down to 0. If it read anything above 0 there is still pressure, hence a pressure reading above 0. 

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 13, 2019, 11:42:18 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 09:48:42 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 13, 2019, 09:28:54 AM

Right...so when does water come into play for the water rocket?

When it's pushed out of the rocket opening under massive pressure against the atmospheric stack directly under it.

So why cant the air do that?
If all ejected material sits on top of the stack of spongy air, why is it that the water rocket works best when using water, and not more air.

Air can do it but the air alone is dissipated very quickly against the stack which gives very little gas on gas push to lift the rocket.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Your most detailed response so far is the "dissipation".
Which then contradicts lift off in general because the rocket is supposedly sitting on a stack of sponges.
You seem to keep dodging this.

I'm not dodging anything. I've explained the water but you're dodging that issue.

Water is much more dense and is not easily dissipated into the atmospheric stack. It manages to be pushed harder into it to compress that stack much more than just air alone would.

I have a feeling you're going to slip right back to square one soon enough.

No
Im not going to slip
Im going to poiint out your contradictions.


Why would it matter water push a stack of sponges better and more than compressed sponges in the tube?

Your claim is the rocket rises, sitting on the exiting and expanding sponges.

A regular outside sponge has a hypothetical diameter of 1 unit, and a compressed sppnge, upon exiting, will balloon out to 1unit and lift the rocket 1 unit off the ground.
If you can squish more sponges into the tube, the rocket should lift higher.
All sponges are sitting stacked up.
If the dissipation/ sponge expansion is too fast, well that just means the rocjet will fly up even faster.

That
Or your theory is wrong and the very calculatable mass flow rate of water leaving the rocket is correct, rockets dont rely on sitting on air, and rockets do work in a vacuum.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 04:00:19 PM

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 03:44:48 PM

Again, logically, this makes no sense. If the gauge is reading anything, there is pressure causing the reading. That's the sole purpose of a gauge. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0.

It doesn't make sense to you because you're refusing to allow it to.

You refuse to understand that the expansion of molecules out of the opening means there is a chain reaction of expansion all the way to the back in different stages of expansion from larger at the front to smaller at the back.
All molecules using each other.

As each bunch of molecules expand, the gauge simple expands with them and starts to slowly move towards the zero, until expansion ceases.

There is nothing pushing back at the gauge. The gauge itself is decompressing along with the decompressing gas molecules.

If there is no pressure against the pressure gauge the pressure gauge reads 0. That's what pressure gauges do, they read pressure. Anything above 0 is pressure.

When you yank the hose of your bicycle tire pump off the tire, the gauge doesn't go down in a progressive manner, it immediately jams down to 0. If it read anything above 0 there is still pressure, hence a pressure reading above 0.

If you were able to plug the tube end up mid flight, the pressure reading would show a pressure because there are still compressed spongss in the tube and these sponges are pushing out in alk directions.
All directions.
Is why the gauge shows a reading.
Because something is pushing on it.

Why would it matter water push a stack of sponges better and more than compressed sponges in the tube?
Your claim is the rocket rises, sitting on the exiting and expanding sponges.

Nope.
The rocket rises by sitting atop the super compressed sponges by that thrust expansion of sponges creating a massive recompression from decompression. Action and reaction of gases.

A regular outside sponge has a hypothetical diameter of 1 unit, and a compressed sppnge, upon exiting, will balloon out to 1unit and lift the rocket 1 unit off the ground.
If you can squish more sponges into the tube, the rocket should lift higher.
All sponges are sitting stacked up.
If the dissipation/ sponge expansion is too fast, well that just means the rocjet will fly up even faster.

Yes, if the sponge expansion is more rapid it means more external compression of atmosphere, which means more resistance to it and bigger crush back against that thrusting/super expanding gas.

That
Or your theory is wrong and the very calculatable mass flow rate of water leaving the rocket is correct, rockets dont rely on sitting on air, and rockets do work in a vacuum.

Clearly they don't work in the fantasy vacuum. It really should be obvious.

None of you even explain how it actually works in this vacuum, you simply say it ejects gas into nothing and in doing so it pushes the other way but never a reason for why.

However this bit isn't what we'r dealing with as of yet.
It's showing why rockets cannot work by my explanation. I think I've more than explained but it doesn't seem to be enough.
So carry on gaining an understanding and get as basic as you can to get to the crux for yourselves.
I know exactly what i'm talking about and there's absolutely no contradictions from my part.

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 04:06:14 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 04:00:19 PM

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 03:44:48 PM

Again, logically, this makes no sense. If the gauge is reading anything, there is pressure causing the reading. That's the sole purpose of a gauge. If there is no pressure, the gauge reads 0.

It doesn't make sense to you because you're refusing to allow it to.

You refuse to understand that the expansion of molecules out of the opening means there is a chain reaction of expansion all the way to the back in different stages of expansion from larger at the front to smaller at the back.
All molecules using each other.

As each bunch of molecules expand, the gauge simple expands with them and starts to slowly move towards the zero, until expansion ceases.

There is nothing pushing back at the gauge. The gauge itself is decompressing along with the decompressing gas molecules.

If there is no pressure against the pressure gauge the pressure gauge reads 0. That's what pressure gauges do, they read pressure. Anything above 0 is pressure.

When you yank the hose of your bicycle tire pump off the tire, the gauge doesn't go down in a progressive manner, it immediately jams down to 0. If it read anything above 0 there is still pressure, hence a pressure reading above 0.

If you were able to plug the tube end up mid flight, the pressure reading would show a pressure because there are still compressed spongss in the tube and these sponges are pushing out in alk directions.
All directions.
Is why the gauge shows a reading.
Because something is pushing on it.

Right, but you just said this: "There is nothing pushing back at the gauge."

Now you're saying this: "Is why the gauge shows a reading. Because something is pushing on it."

How is that not a contradiction? Which is it?

Right, but you just said this: "There is nothing pushing back at the gauge."

Now you're saying this: "Is why the gauge shows a reading. Because something is pushing on it."

How is that not a contradiction? Which is it?

Because you're getting mixed up with a sealed pressurised container and an open end container.
The sealed pressurised container with the gauge will naturally read a set pressure because it literally is gas pushing gas pushing container and gauge, in equal terms.


I'm talking about the decompression of it by opening the exit valve.
Deal with the exit valve opening and forget about the sealed pressure for now.

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 10:41:37 PM

Right, but you just said this: "There is nothing pushing back at the gauge."

Now you're saying this: "Is why the gauge shows a reading. Because something is pushing on it."

How is that not a contradiction? Which is it?

Because you're getting mixed up with a sealed pressurised container and an open end container.
The sealed pressurised container with the gauge will naturally read a set pressure because it literally is gas pushing gas pushing container and gauge, in equal terms.


I'm talking about the decompression of it by opening the exit valve.
Deal with the exit valve opening and forget about the sealed pressure for now.

We've dealt with what you think happens at the exit valve end. What you haven't dealt with is what happens at the gauge end. In one breath you're saying there is no pressure on the gauge end, yet the gauge reads pressure, and in another breath you're saying there is pressure at the gauge end, hence it's properly reading a pressure. A contradiction.

Wouldn't a list of simple yes-no questions be useful here?

Wouldn't a list of simple yes-no questions be useful here?

We've kind of gone there already, but it doesn't seem to work, hence the contradictions. Feel free to start things off though. I'm at a loss.

I guess my first would be:

The container is breached, valve opened, on the bottom end. The pressure gauge still has a reading as it ticks down to 0
- Is there still pressure being applied to the pressure gauge at the top as the needle is moving down toward 0? Y/N
- If the pressure gauge is still showing a pressure above zero is there not pressure pressing on the gauge to do so? Y/N

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 10:45:56 PM

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 10:41:37 PM

Right, but you just said this: "There is nothing pushing back at the gauge."

Now you're saying this: "Is why the gauge shows a reading. Because something is pushing on it."

How is that not a contradiction? Which is it?

Because you're getting mixed up with a sealed pressurised container and an open end container.
The sealed pressurised container with the gauge will naturally read a set pressure because it literally is gas pushing gas pushing container and gauge, in equal terms.


I'm talking about the decompression of it by opening the exit valve.
Deal with the exit valve opening and forget about the sealed pressure for now.

We've dealt with what you think happens at the exit valve end. What you haven't dealt with is what happens at the gauge end. In one breath you're saying there is no pressure on the gauge end, yet the gauge reads pressure, and in another breath you're saying there is pressure at the gauge end, hence it's properly reading a pressure. A contradiction.

Let's get familiar with the gauge reading pressure and not reading pressure.

To read a consistent pressure the compressed gas is sealed and is pushing into the gauge diaphragm/piston/spring or whatever, which pushes a pointer clockwise to get a set reading.

If you were to push in more air the gauge would start to read more clockwise pressure in a continuous push of that needle to read pressure gain.

All push and no arguments.

But we're not dealing with this.

We are dealing with what happens when the valve is opened and the gauge is no longer being pushed in  the opposite direction.
There is no energy being exerted towards the gauge when the opposite valve is opened to allow gas expansion into external atmosphere.

Another simple analogy.

If you compressed a spring into a tube and at the top of the inside of the tube was a piston that the spring compressed against.
This piston pushes a pointer inside a gauge to measure that spring compression.
You seal the container with that compressed spring in and you clearly see the piston has pushed to pointer up to  (for instance) max compression.
Now you open the container and allow the spring to decompress. It can only decompress in one direction which is out of the exit, but you will see a gradual decompression of the spring all the way to the back where it touched the piston but now the piston if simple following a decompressing spring in the opposite direction by simply being no more than a ceiling for that spring, without push back against it.

The way you're likely looking at it is in thinking that once the exit is opened the gases are still pushing in opposite direction against each end of the tank.
They aren't.
They are using the energy applied to them in terms of being compressed and are now decompressing naturally but are still all attached.

Wouldn't a list of simple yes-no questions be useful here?

In some cases, yes.
However, if the questions deviate which they're likely to do then it requires retracking.

Quote from: rvlvr on November 13, 2019, 11:04:53 PM

Wouldn't a list of simple yes-no questions be useful here?

We've kind of gone there already, but it doesn't seem to work, hence the contradictions. Feel free to start things off though. I'm at a loss.

I guess my first would be:

The container is breached, valve opened, on the bottom end. The pressure gauge still has a reading as it ticks down to 0
- Is there still pressure being applied to the pressure gauge at the top as the needle is moving down toward 0? Y/N

No.

- If the pressure gauge is still showing a pressure above zero is there not pressure pressing on the gauge to do so? Y/N

No.

It's decompressing naturally.
What takes the hit is the gases all expanding all the way to the gauge but as this happens, they're all expanding into each other and the gauge is merely tailgating (if you like) them.

The way you're likely looking at it is in thinking that once the exit is opened the gases are still pushing in opposite direction against each end of the tank.
They aren't.
They are using the energy applied to them in terms of being compressed and are now decompressing naturally but are still all attached.

Ok, Y/N didn't work.

If the gauge at the top still registers pressure, pressure is being applied the the gauge. That's what a pressure gauge does, it registers pressure. If it's 0, there is no pressure. If it's more than 0 there is. And if it's more than 0 pressure its pushing against the gauge. I don't know how to make that more clear.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 11:35:47 PM

The way you're likely looking at it is in thinking that once the exit is opened the gases are still pushing in opposite direction against each end of the tank.
They aren't.
They are using the energy applied to them in terms of being compressed and are now decompressing naturally but are still all attached.

Ok, Y/N didn't work.

If the gauge at the top still registers pressure, pressure is being applied the the gauge. That's what a pressure gauge does, it registers pressure. If it's 0, there is no pressure. If it's more than 0 there is. And if it's more than 0 pressure its pushing against the gauge. I don't know how to make that more clear.

The pressure when set was potential energy reading.
Once the valve is opened the potential energy is now flowing energy in a decompression chain reaction.

In other words all the arrows are pointing towards the exit in their many many different expansion rates from exit hole to gauge.
The gauge starts to show a consistent drop in pressure because there's no pressure applied to that gauge from the gas molecules (arrows).

To stash s point

A ballloon slowly deflating shows the air inside is still pushing on the edges.
If it werent, the balloon would instantly collapse.
Scepti keeps flip flopping wjen addrsssing tjis point.

Air can do it but the air alone is dissipated very quickly against the stack which gives very little gas on gas push to lift the rocket.

Why?
Why is the air dissipated so much more quickly than the water?

I'm not dodging anything.

You are dodging so much it isn't funny.
You are yet to answer plenty of simple questions which show your claims to be nonsense.

Water is much more dense and is not easily dissipated into the atmospheric stack. It manages to be pushed harder into it

This should mean it works worse than just air.

I don't need to make up my mind. It's made up and is consistent.

No, it isn't consistent. You repeatedly contradict yourself.
That was just one simple example.

I grasp it quite well. All your insults do is show you have no case.
All you repeatedly ignoring large amounts of contradictions does is show you have no case.

Again, there are 2 options:
The pressure continues to push up even though the valve is open, or it does not.
If it doesn't, then there will be no reading on the pressure gauge.

The gauge has a spring always trying to force it back to its equilibrium position. If it is away from that (i.e. reading pressure), then there will be a force pushing it straight to there. If there is no force to counteract that, then it will move back, very quickly, and show a reading of 0 pressure.
In order to have it not go to 0, you need a force to counteract the force from the spring, to hold it in place.

So again, either there is force on the gauge from the gas, or the gauge reads 0. They are your only 2 options.
There is no alternative.

It means the gauge is not under pressure

WRONG!
As already pointed out, HOW DOES IT HAVE A READING IF IT ISN'T UNDER PRESSURE?

If it wasn't under pressure, it would read 0.
The only way for it to read a pressure is if it is still under pressure.

So again, is it under pressure or not?
If it isn't, the gauge reads 0. If it is, then the pressure is still exerting outwards in all directions.

Until you make up your mind and either say that the pressure is still exerting outwards in all directions, or that the gauge will read 0, you have not made up your mind nor are you being consistent.

The gauge can only read zero when it's allowed to get to that point.

Yes, by things no longer exerting pressure on it.
While there is still gas in the container, it is still exerting a pressure on the gauge, and thus it doesn't read 0.
But with your nonsense, there is no more pressure on the gauge and it can instantly read 0.
No need to wait for any equalisation because your gas is sentient and knows to only push towards the exit.

The whole point of equalising pressure is that there is still more pressure inside (exerting outwards in all directions) than the pressure outside.

The sealed pressurised container with the gauge will naturally read a set pressure

It will read a set pressure because the pressure can't change as it is closed.
If instead you heat it up, the pressure will increase. If you cool it down, the pressure will decrease.

If the valve is open, then the pressure reading will drop, because the pressure inside is dropping.
This pressure inside is still pushing against the gauge to produce a reading, but as the gas escapes, it will drop.

Perhaps this one will be better for you:
Take a nice gas tank with a pressure gauge on one end and a valve on the other.
Cool it down, a lot, but not enough to liquefy the gas.
Now open the valve a little bit and heat the container up.
What do you think would happen to the gauge?

Let's get familiar with the gauge reading pressure and not reading pressure.

Try to do it accurately.
If the gauge is reading a pressure, then there is a force from the gas pushing against the gauge.
If there is no force pushing against the gauge, then the reading is 0.

If the pressure pushing against the gauge is constant, the reading is constant.
If the pressure is changing, the reading changes.

There is no energy being exerted towards the gauge

All that means is that the reading wont increase.
That doesn't mean that pressure isn't still being exerted towards the gauge.

Another simple analogy.

Considering how many of your "simple analogies" have already been corrected to show you are wrong, why don't you stop with them and actually deal with the issue at hand?

It's decompressing naturally.

No, its not.
If you want to see it decompressing naturally, remove the gauge from the tank.
You will see it very quickly drop to 0.
It slowly dropping as air escapes the tank shows that it is still reading the pressure inside the tank, which is still pushing outwards in all directions.

The pressure when set was potential energy reading.

That is one way to think about it.
But it doesn't negate the fact that it still need pressure pushing against it to not read 0.

Quote from: Themightykabool on November 13, 2019, 08:17:14 PM

Why would it matter water push a stack of sponges better and more than compressed sponges in the tube?
Your claim is the rocket rises, sitting on the exiting and expanding sponges.

Nope.
The rocket rises by sitting atop the super compressed sponges by that thrust expansion of sponges creating a massive recompression from decompression. Action and reaction of gases.

Quote from: Themightykabool

A regular outside sponge has a hypothetical diameter of 1 unit, and a compressed sppnge, upon exiting, will balloon out to 1unit and lift the rocket 1 unit off the ground.
If you can squish more sponges into the tube, the rocket should lift higher.
All sponges are sitting stacked up.
If the dissipation/ sponge expansion is too fast, well that just means the rocjet will fly up even faster.

Yes, if the sponge expansion is more rapid it means more external compression of atmosphere, which means more resistance to it and bigger crush back against that thrusting/super expanding gas.

Quote from: Themightykabool

That
Or your theory is wrong and the very calculatable mass flow rate of water leaving the rocket is correct, rockets dont rely on sitting on air, and rockets do work in a vacuum.

Clearly they don't work in the fantasy vacuum. It really should be obvious.

None of you even explain how it actually works in this vacuum, you simply say it ejects gas into nothing and in doing so it pushes the other way but never a reason for why.

However this bit isn't what we'r dealing with as of yet.
It's showing why rockets cannot work by my explanation. I think I've more than explained but it doesn't seem to be enough.
So carry on gaining an understanding and get as basic as you can to get to the crux for yourselves.
I know exactly what i'm talking about and there's absolutely no contradictions from my part.

And here we have another nonsensical explanation.
If the super crush is there, then by yoyr very "model" water is not needed and the water rpcket in theory would go much higher if more sppnges were squished into it.

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 11:44:26 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 11:35:47 PM

The way you're likely looking at it is in thinking that once the exit is opened the gases are still pushing in opposite direction against each end of the tank.
They aren't.
They are using the energy applied to them in terms of being compressed and are now decompressing naturally but are still all attached.

Ok, Y/N didn't work.

If the gauge at the top still registers pressure, pressure is being applied the the gauge. That's what a pressure gauge does, it registers pressure. If it's 0, there is no pressure. If it's more than 0 there is. And if it's more than 0 pressure its pushing against the gauge. I don't know how to make that more clear.

The pressure when set was potential energy reading.
Once the valve is opened the potential energy is now flowing energy in a decompression chain reaction.

In other words all the arrows are pointing towards the exit in their many many different expansion rates from exit hole to gauge.
The gauge starts to show a consistent drop in pressure because there's no pressure applied to that gauge from the gas molecules (arrows).

All the arrows are not pointing to the exit otherwise:

- There would be no reading on the top gauge. Remember, a gauge measures pressure. If the pressure is above 0, there is still pressure.
- A balloon would instantaneously collapse and lose it's shape when the valve opened. It does not

Again, you can't have the contradiction:

When the valve is opened, there is no pressure on the gauge yet it shows pressure on the gauge.

Perhaps you could draw a simple diagram that shows the tube, the compressed air, the water, the outside normal air.

Then draw arrows showing what the water does.

And then compare that with a diagram without the air.

Here is another simple diagram for you to get completely wrong:

This is a membrane being pushed to the right by a spring.
If there is nothing pushing it to the left, what would happen?
Will it very quickly go to the right until the spring has relaxed?
Or will it go very slowly?
Or will it magically depend upon something else?

Quote from: Stash on November 13, 2019, 11:44:26 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 13, 2019, 11:35:47 PM

The way you're likely looking at it is in thinking that once the exit is opened the gases are still pushing in opposite direction against each end of the tank.
They aren't.
They are using the energy applied to them in terms of being compressed and are now decompressing naturally but are still all attached.

Ok, Y/N didn't work.

If the gauge at the top still registers pressure, pressure is being applied the the gauge. That's what a pressure gauge does, it registers pressure. If it's 0, there is no pressure. If it's more than 0 there is. And if it's more than 0 pressure its pushing against the gauge. I don't know how to make that more clear.

The pressure when set was potential energy reading.
Once the valve is opened the potential energy is now flowing energy in a decompression chain reaction.

In other words all the arrows are pointing towards the exit in their many many different expansion rates from exit hole to gauge.
The gauge starts to show a consistent drop in pressure because there's no pressure applied to that gauge from the gas molecules (arrows).

Because scepti doesnt understand force diagrams and such he has confused flow/ expanding sponges with your rocket picture showing the gas pressing in all directions.

His inability to use proper language is the wnd biggest failing (aside from basic physics).