Coriolis Effect proves a globe

  • 69 Replies
  • 2774 Views
*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 4307
Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2019, 12:22:44 AM »
As I said, it's harmonic with the diurnal cycle.  In this case insolation is the direct cause of the diurnal cycle, and just to be more clear, the reference from NCAR also explains how the semi-diurnal effects are influenced by the tidal force of the sun, similar to how the moon and the oceans work.

Your statements and the quote from NCAR do not explain anything at all, on the contrary.

You have not addressed the main issue.

BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX

One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m.

The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations.

If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.


Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2019, 02:35:17 AM »
You haven't got a clue as to the subject we are discussing here.
No, most people realise.
It is the Coriolis effect, and how it proves Earth is a rotating ball.

You don't seem to be saying anythign about it though.

Can you explain why large scale weather systems rotate the way they do?
Why Foucault's pendulum behaves the way it does?

*

rabinoz

  • 22153
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2019, 02:52:20 AM »
You have not addressed the main issue.
BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX
No, "the main issue" is not your so-called "BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX"! Introduced by you with:
Quote
Now, I am going to put an end to your presence here as a professional meteorologist.
Here is the barometer pressure paradox.
From a 1912 paper: On the diurnal variations of atmospheric pressure by W. J. Humphreys, Journal of the Washington Academy of Sciences Vol. 2, No. 15 (SEPTEMBER 19, 1912), pp. 372-377.

Are you certain nothing has been learnt about meteorology or atmospheric science since 1912 ::)?
You might read, for example,
      Why Atmospheric Pressure Peaks At 10am And 10pm In The Tropics, Date: December 14, 2008, Source: University of Hawaii at Manoa.

But in case you hadn't noticed the topic happens to be the "Coriolis Effect proves a globe".
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 03:00:24 AM by rabinoz »

*

mightyfletch

  • 186
  • 14yr Meteorologist...because the Earth is round.
Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2019, 07:11:02 AM »
As I said, it's harmonic with the diurnal cycle.  In this case insolation is the direct cause of the diurnal cycle, and just to be more clear, the reference from NCAR also explains how the semi-diurnal effects are influenced by the tidal force of the sun, similar to how the moon and the oceans work.

Your statements and the quote from NCAR do not explain anything at all, on the contrary.

You have not addressed the main issue.

BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX

One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m.

The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations.

If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.

I was wondering why you were so confused about this, then I realized you keep quoting Lord Rayleigh who died a hundred years ago. 

From the World Meteorological Organization: "The interpretation of day-night differences must allow for real daily variation in geopotential height caused by diurnal and semidiurnal tides. Real day-night differences at mid-latitudes for 100 hPa geopotential heights can be as large as 30 m between observations at 1800 and 0600 local time (Nash, 1984), whereas real day-night differences between observations at 1200 and 0000 local time will usually be in the range 0 ± 10 m." 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/www/IMOP/meetings/CB/Ed-Board-2/EdBd-2_P-I_Ch-12.doc&ved=2ahUKEwiN9LqR69zjAhXhi1QKHTgxANMQFjAKegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1s1LsqmEzX9qnfS1Pk4wFk
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 07:22:55 AM by mightyfletch »
Look up in the sky, it's a bird, no, it's a plane, no, it's the International Space Station!

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 4307
Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2019, 08:13:44 AM »
I realized you keep quoting Lord Rayleigh who died a hundred years ago.

The barometer pressure paradox stands unsolved to this very day.

From the World Meteorological Organization: "The interpretation of day-night differences must allow for real daily variation in geopotential height caused by diurnal and semidiurnal tides. Real day-night differences at mid-latitudes for 100 hPa geopotential heights can be as large as 30 m between observations at 1800 and 0600 local time (Nash, 1984), whereas real day-night differences between observations at 1200 and 0000 local time will usually be in the range 0 ± 10 m."

You are still dodging the main issue.

"The temperature produced by the sun on the surface of the earth, as measured by the thermometer, is increased during the former part of the day  and progressively diminished during the latter part and the night, as follows: it begins to rise a little before the sun,  increases until about one o'clock in the day, when it turns and  declines; and continues falling until about five o'clock the next  morning — making but one rise of eight, and one fall of sixteen, in the twenty-four hours. From these facts it sufficiently appears that  the two daily atmospheric tides or movements cannot be caused directly by the sun heating the surface of the earth.

Here are the facts:

BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX

One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m.

The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations.

If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.


There is only one other element of weather which features a semidiurnal oscillation: atmospheric electricity.

Since terrestrial gravity is directly linked to electricity, the barometer pressure phenomenon is in direct relationship to the electric potential.

The potential variation is the cause of the barometer pressure oscillations:

https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/atmospheric-science-burying-beals-barometer/

Here is the data gathered in the period 1898-1904 on the Kew electrograph:

https://ia800107.us.archive.org/14/items/philtrans07216443/07216443.pdf

Few mathematicians understand that Einstein's version of relativity is the lowest possible, this being the main reason why his efforts towards a unified field theory failed.

A much higher form of relativity is, as an example, the Reissner-Nordstrom metric:

https://archive.org/details/philtrans04375412

At an even higher level, we find the Weyl electrovacuum solutions:

http://www.jp-petit.org/papers/cosmo/1917-Weyl-en.pdf (Hermann Weyl's formidable paper, showing why he was the best mathematician in the world at that time, several ranks higher than Einstein, Pauli, Dirac or Lorentz)

In order to reach the final formula, H. Weyl states:

"In this context, the energy-momentum tensor will be comprised only of that valid for
the electromagnetic field in the ćther and of the “kinetic” energy-momentum tensor of the matter in the more restricted sense."

"Weyl’s new geometry was much richer than the Riemannian geometry in both its mathematical and philosophical content. Mathematically, the new geometry introduced new quantities into space that had no analogy in other geometries. Philosophically, these new quantities, unaccounted for by Riemannian geometry and thus unaccounted for in General Relativity, were used by Weyl to represent electromagnetic phenomena. Every point in space, represented by a vector having both magnitude and direction, could be displaced to another point in the same space yielding electromagnetism. When only the direction of the vector was taken into account, ignoring the vector’s magnitude, there remained a parallel displacement of the kind described by Levi-Civita, which accounted for gravity. The difference with Weyl’s geometry lay in the fact that it was no longer necessary for a vector’s magnitude or length to remain constant while being displaced between points in space."

“Later the quantum-theory introduced the Schrodinger-Dirac potential ψ of the electron-positron field; it carried with it an experimentally based principle of gauge-invariance which guaranteed the conservation of charge, and connected the ψ with the electromagnetic potentials Aµ in the same way that my speculative theory had connected the gravitational potentials gµν with the Aµ, and measured the Aµ in known atomic, rather than unknown cosmological units."

H. Weyl, Selecta, 1955

« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 08:15:27 AM by sandokhan »

*

mightyfletch

  • 186
  • 14yr Meteorologist...because the Earth is round.
Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2019, 09:48:01 AM »
I realized you keep quoting Lord Rayleigh who died a hundred years ago.

The barometer pressure paradox stands unsolved to this very day.

From the World Meteorological Organization: "The interpretation of day-night differences must allow for real daily variation in geopotential height caused by diurnal and semidiurnal tides. Real day-night differences at mid-latitudes for 100 hPa geopotential heights can be as large as 30 m between observations at 1800 and 0600 local time (Nash, 1984), whereas real day-night differences between observations at 1200 and 0000 local time will usually be in the range 0 ± 10 m."

You are still dodging the main issue.

"The temperature produced by the sun on the surface of the earth, as measured by the thermometer, is increased during the former part of the day  and progressively diminished during the latter part and the night, as follows: it begins to rise a little before the sun,  increases until about one o'clock in the day, when it turns and  declines; and continues falling until about five o'clock the next  morning — making but one rise of eight, and one fall of sixteen, in the twenty-four hours. From these facts it sufficiently appears that  the two daily atmospheric tides or movements cannot be caused directly by the sun heating the surface of the earth.

Here are the facts:

BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX

One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m.

The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations.

If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.


There is only one other element of weather which features a semidiurnal oscillation: atmospheric electricity.

Since terrestrial gravity is directly linked to electricity, the barometer pressure phenomenon is in direct relationship to the electric potential.

The potential variation is the cause of the barometer pressure oscillations:

https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/atmospheric-science-burying-beals-barometer/

Here is the data gathered in the period 1898-1904 on the Kew electrograph:

https://ia800107.us.archive.org/14/items/philtrans07216443/07216443.pdf

Few mathematicians understand that Einstein's version of relativity is the lowest possible, this being the main reason why his efforts towards a unified field theory failed.

A much higher form of relativity is, as an example, the Reissner-Nordstrom metric:

https://archive.org/details/philtrans04375412

At an even higher level, we find the Weyl electrovacuum solutions:

http://www.jp-petit.org/papers/cosmo/1917-Weyl-en.pdf (Hermann Weyl's formidable paper, showing why he was the best mathematician in the world at that time, several ranks higher than Einstein, Pauli, Dirac or Lorentz)

In order to reach the final formula, H. Weyl states:

"In this context, the energy-momentum tensor will be comprised only of that valid for
the electromagnetic field in the ćther and of the “kinetic” energy-momentum tensor of the matter in the more restricted sense."

"Weyl’s new geometry was much richer than the Riemannian geometry in both its mathematical and philosophical content. Mathematically, the new geometry introduced new quantities into space that had no analogy in other geometries. Philosophically, these new quantities, unaccounted for by Riemannian geometry and thus unaccounted for in General Relativity, were used by Weyl to represent electromagnetic phenomena. Every point in space, represented by a vector having both magnitude and direction, could be displaced to another point in the same space yielding electromagnetism. When only the direction of the vector was taken into account, ignoring the vector’s magnitude, there remained a parallel displacement of the kind described by Levi-Civita, which accounted for gravity. The difference with Weyl’s geometry lay in the fact that it was no longer necessary for a vector’s magnitude or length to remain constant while being displaced between points in space."

“Later the quantum-theory introduced the Schrodinger-Dirac potential ψ of the electron-positron field; it carried with it an experimentally based principle of gauge-invariance which guaranteed the conservation of charge, and connected the ψ with the electromagnetic potentials Aµ in the same way that my speculative theory had connected the gravitational potentials gµν with the Aµ, and measured the Aµ in known atomic, rather than unknown cosmological units."

H. Weyl, Selecta, 1955

Rabinoz and I have already given you an in depth verifiable explanation of the semidiurnal phenomenon, yet you keep skewing off into unrelated topics.  There's not really much else to say on this. 
Look up in the sky, it's a bird, no, it's a plane, no, it's the International Space Station!

Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2019, 02:23:35 PM »
You are still dodging the main issue.
No, that is still you.
What is causing the rotation of large scale weather systems and Foucault's pendulum?

That is the main issue for this thread, yet you have offered nothing on it.

If you want to discuss your lack of understanding of pressure, go make a thread for it.

Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2019, 04:12:14 PM »


The barometer pressure paradox stands unsolved to this very day.

"The temperature produced by the sun on the surface of the earth, as measured by the thermometer, is increased during the former part of the day  and progressively diminished during the latter part and the night, as follows: it begins to rise a little before the sun,  increases until about one o'clock in the day, when it turns and  declines; and continues falling until about five o'clock the next  morning — making but one rise of eight, and one fall of sixteen, in the twenty-four hours. From these facts it sufficiently appears that  the two daily atmospheric tides or movements cannot be caused directly by the sun heating the surface of the earth.

Here are the facts:

BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX

One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m.

The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations.

If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.

Well, I challenge your reference that max temperature happens at 1pm. Easily validated to anyone who actually wants to observe the data for themselves.
Go to www.wunderground.com and find weather stations near you and look at the historical hourly temperatures on days that don’t have weather fronts passing through. My observations - max temperatures consistently occur from 3-5pm. But don’t take my word for it. Check it out for yourself.
This isn’t a government network. It’s a network of private citizens with independently owned mini weather stations tied to the wunderground network via the internet. If you doubt it, go to one of your neighbors who is reporting on the network and ask them about their collector.
Better yet, set up a weather station and collect your own data.
Besides, max heating of the atmosphere as a whole is what drives atmospheric pressure at the ground. That also happens around 4pm. Ever noticed when afternoon thunderstorms typically begin? Hint, around and after the time of max heating. Reeks havoc on  summer time evening air travel in the Eastern US.

Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2019, 05:21:15 PM »
Coriolis Effect proves a globe

In all fairness, your subject title contains a logical fallacy.

The Coriolis effect (CE) is either an observation or prediction from the mathematics of Newtonian principals. It is explained or predicted by Newtonian mechanics on a spinning globe. Realized observation of CE supports a spinning globe with Newtonian mechanics, but doesn’t prove it.

The argument goes,

If Newtonian mechanics are true and an observer is on a spinning globe, then the CE will be seen.

However, it’s a fallacy to then say, if the CE is observed, then the observer must be on a spinning globe within a system bound by Newtonian mechanics.
(Consider a different postulate: if a flat earth were accelerating upwards at 9m/s^2, then we’d observe things falling downward with that same rate of acceleration. Observing that result is consistent with, but doesn’t prove the postulate)

But it would be logically true that if there’s no CE observed where predicted, then we cannot be on a spinning globe in a Newtonian system.

In short-hand,
If RE, then CE. If no CE, then no RE.

So FE’s proclaim, “CE doesn’t exist. That proves the earth isn’t round.”

And the general difficulty of any individual to observe CE directly without abstractions like weather patterns and artillery flight patterns that very few of us have ever observed directly allows them to maintain CE’s non existence, and preserve their “disproof” of RE.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 05:43:54 PM by mightythor »

Re: Coriolis Effect proves a globe
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2019, 03:56:16 AM »
Coriolis Effect proves a globe

Probably better to say that observing a coriolis effect which rotates opposite directions north and south of the equator disproves a flat earth.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."