Flat earth observations/experiments

Quote from: alex314 on July 16, 2019, 11:01:11 PM

Hello Flat Earthers,

in this thread I would like you to describe any experiment/observation you have made yourself that shows evidence of a flat earth. Please describe your experiment/observation in detail, and why you think it shows an inconsistency to the 'globe model'.

Thank you

I walk out of my house and observed the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level and did not bend down from center on the left nor the right. I then drove to the beach and observed the same. I did not observe a curvizon because no curve was observed but I did observed a horizon; a word used in the English language to describe a straight line. .

I did notice that the buoy off in a distance was not visible at the time because of the science of heat and humidity, but it is always clearly seen in the mornings. I was not naive to think Earth curves in the afternoon.

I took a plane flight and noticed a horizon and it was still at eye level, but it should have been lower if it were a curvizon.  Observation is good science.

How sure are you that the 'horizon' does nor 'rise to eye level'. How did you measure it? What is the error margin? Was it below 1 degree? Below 0.1 degree? Below 0.00001 degree?

I saw nothing that indicated I lived on a sphere.

I am not one who follows the narrative of main stream.  If I was, I would believe trump is a bad orange man, democrats are good, multiple genders, global warming, Islam is a peaceful religion and other nonsense and hoaxes spread through media.

Now, please tell me what have you observed daily that would indicate you live on a sphere? Please tell me so I can observe them too.

Sure:
- Sunset. A sunset is impossible on a flat earth as you would the sun never see set
- Apparent motion of the sun: Always around 16 degrees per hour, impossible if earth were flat
- Satellites: Where you might get TV from
- Shooting stars.
- Planets and moons around planets. Observe Jupiter
- Eclipses!!! Perfectly predicted in the sphere model, but I NEVER EVER saw a model predicting ANY eclipse in the flat earth model.
- Flight paths: Its a curve
- Conspiracy of many many thousands of people for hundreds of year? Impossibe
- and so on

Quote from: rabinoz on July 20, 2019, 07:30:59 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 20, 2019, 04:37:46 PM

Quote from: Macarios on July 20, 2019, 03:54:17 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 20, 2019, 02:57:52 PM

... the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level...

Your don't have to trust the video.
It is cheap to make rig like this and see for yourself if the horizon "stays at the eye level".

Your buddy is leaving out an important issue, “Science” and perspective.  Earth has an infinite plane and at some point the horizon is going to be obscured with atmospheric bleeds (so to speak) . If your buddy did his experiment at different times of the year and day he would see the horizon would vary according to weather conditions. 

Really?
Numerous videos I see show the horizon well below eye-level (the local horizontal).

Flat Earth Fail - The Horizon Does Not Rise to Eye Level by Flat Earth Dogma


Does the Horizon Always Stay at “Eye Level” by Bobby Shafto I find the background music annoying!


Flat Earth - Surveyor's instrument confirms the Horizon does NOT rise to eye level by Wolfie6020

And you can test it with mountain peaks too:

The flat earth horizon & eye level: it's time you heard the truth by Rory

And sailors doing celestial navigation must allow a "dip correction" or there position fixes will be wrong!

FLAT EARTH: The visible horizon drops below eye level at altitude. Celestial Navigation. by Andy Woof.
This has been known about for centuries.

I note that you fail to answer any point that I make so why should I bother with yours?

Notice the red bull jumper's view to the flat horizon as he sits in the chair and he's above the atmosphere at 128,000'. No one looks down to see the horizon on this Earth. However, one can appear to be looking down when the view is skewed through the beloved fisheye lens.

How do you know that "No one looks down to see the horizon on this Earth". There is no way to determine that from any of Felix Baumgartner's video because there in no horizontal reference, ie no level.

Not in this either! And a tiny scrap of the horizon can never show any curve! The earth is huge!

Exactly!
And if you are standing with your eyes 6 feet above sea-level it is like you being a microbe 1.7 millionths of an inch high sitting that 12 inch ball!
How much curve would a microbe sized you see 1.7 millionths of an inch high sitting that 12 inch ball!

Even Felix Baumgartner at 128,000 feet above earth would be only about ¹/₃₂ of an inch that ball.

PS Maybe someone can check my sums.

Why are flat earthers so touchy about this thing about asking questions ?
I have asked questions about flat Earth but usually got no replies or got no answers or some replies that they were under no obligation to answer your question.
I would really like to get some ideas about Flat Earth
I have never ran into this on any other website no matter how stupid  my question might seem to experts on those websites.
They were often very happy to explain things in great detail.
What's the reason for this hostility ?
Seems to me it's more the angry flattist rather than the angry globurist.
Maybe they just get upset because they have no answers .
If they have been  on this website for any length of time they should have found out by now that the earth isn't flat anyway ?

Maybe they just get upset because they have no answers

Yes exactly! I see it the same way. They have no real answers, so they evade, change topic, insult and/or get angry.

Because of that alone, flat earth does not make any sense.

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 21, 2019, 08:33:54 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 20, 2019, 07:30:59 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 20, 2019, 04:37:46 PM

Quote from: Macarios on July 20, 2019, 03:54:17 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 20, 2019, 02:57:52 PM

... the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level...

Your don't have to trust the video.
It is cheap to make rig like this and see for yourself if the horizon "stays at the eye level".

Your buddy is leaving out an important issue, “Science” and perspective.  Earth has an infinite plane and at some point the horizon is going to be obscured with atmospheric bleeds (so to speak) . If your buddy did his experiment at different times of the year and day he would see the horizon would vary according to weather conditions. 

Really?
Numerous videos I see show the horizon well below eye-level (the local horizontal).

Flat Earth Fail - The Horizon Does Not Rise to Eye Level by Flat Earth Dogma


Does the Horizon Always Stay at “Eye Level” by Bobby Shafto I find the background music annoying!


Flat Earth - Surveyor's instrument confirms the Horizon does NOT rise to eye level by Wolfie6020

And you can test it with mountain peaks too:

The flat earth horizon & eye level: it's time you heard the truth by Rory

And sailors doing celestial navigation must allow a "dip correction" or there position fixes will be wrong!

FLAT EARTH: The visible horizon drops below eye level at altitude. Celestial Navigation. by Andy Woof.
This has been known about for centuries.

I note that y
ou fail to answer any point that I make so why should I bother with yours?

Quote from: Plat Terra

Notice the red bull jumper's view to the flat horizon as he sits in the chair and he's above the atmosphere at 128,000'. No one looks down to see the horizon on this Earth. However, one can appear to be looking down when the view is skewed through the beloved fisheye lens.

How do you know that "No one looks down to see the horizon on this Earth". There is no way to determine that from any of Felix Baumgartner's video because there in no horizontal reference, ie no level.

Quote from: Plat Terra

Not in this either! And a tiny scrap of the horizon can never show any curve! The earth is huge!

Quote from: Plat Terra

Exactly!
And if you are standing with your eyes 6 feet above sea-level it is like you being a microbe 1.7 millionths of an inch high sitting that 12 inch ball!
How much curve would a microbe sized you see 1.7 millionths of an inch high sitting that 12 inch ball!

Even Felix Baumgartner at 128,000 feet above earth would be only about ¹/₃₂ of an inch that ball.

PS Maybe someone can check my sums.

Even if you were in the crow's nest on a ship you can only see to the horizon in a circle around you of about a 10 mile radius.
Consider the circumference of the earth is about 25,000 miles at the equator and that is a very small distance.
But if the earth was flat the distance you could see should be much greater.

Why are flat earthers so touchy about this thing about asking questions ?
I have asked questions about flat Earth but usually got no replies or got no answers or some replies that they were under no obligation to answer your question.
I would really like to some ideas about flat Earth
I have never ran into this on any other website no matter how stupid  my question might seem to experts on those websites.
They were often very happy to explain things in great detail.
What's the reason for this hostility ?
Seems to me it's more the angry flattist rather than the angry globurist.
Maybe they just get upset because they have no answers .
If they have been  on this website for any length of time they should have found out by now that the earth isn't flat anyway ?

A case in point. Have a look at: New design? "Sun Quadrant Sextant" « Reply #24 on: Today at 09:37:27 AM »

I go into considerable detail in answering every one one of Plat Terra's points only to be brushed off with:

I am not into pissing matches. But I will say, the sphere you think you live on has a imaginary radius of only 3959 miles. That's small and would be very noticeable from mountain tops. Hell, a 6' drop in curvature would also be noticeable. My place wouldn't flood if there was a 6' drop in curvature surrounding me.

Do any Flat Earthers have any concept of scale or persprctive? It's evident both here and far worse in YouTube videos and comments.

I wouldn't waste my time except that these same people, those here and on YouTube, then have the audacity to call NASA and all the astronauts liars as in:
      "Liars sometimes forget the exact propaganda",
      "And yes those astronauts are indeed evil liars who worked for an evil government" and
      "It is because of people like you that scumbag nazi/NASA got away with their lies till date".

And they accuse hundreds of thousands to millions of being in a conspiracy to deceive the rest of the world to "cover up the true shape of the earth".

In many cases, it matters little about what people believe.

After all, maybe they are right and I'm missing something but when their belief is clearly incorrect yet demands such false accusations I'll fight it on all the fronts that I can.

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

I stood at sea level and viewed mountains that were >100 miles away. The mountains had the appearance of having snowfields at sea level, but based on local knowledge and the fact it was midsummer, I knew the snow fields would be >1k feet above sea level. I concluded that the earth between me and the mountains must be curved.

original post



EDIT: OOPS. Just re-read and notice that you were addressing flat-earthers only. Sorry to waste your time!

I stood at sea level and viewed mountains that were >100 miles away. The mountains had the appearance of having snowfields at sea level, but based on local knowledge and the fact it was midsummer, I knew the snow fields would be >1k feet above sea level. I concluded that the earth between me and the mountains must be curved.

original post



EDIT: OOPS. Just re-read and notice that you were addressing flat-earthers only. Sorry to waste your time!

Flat Earth is interesting from the standpoint of imagining just how different things would look like and how things would have to be if the world was flat.
That just about sums up Flat Earth IMO. Most of Flat Earth ideas are either just made up or imaginary.

My first experiences as I  have previously mentioned were noting how much farther you could see to the horizon from the top of Point Loma  (about 400 feet above sea level ) -  about 25 miles -  than you could from the shore (at 0 feet above sea  level ) - about 2 miles  -at Pacific Beach at San Diego, California in the U.S.A.
Then later at sea how land and ships appeared or disappeared as they passed over the horizon.
Then much later I came  across the " Navy Manual For Lookouts " which had those tables showing distances to the horizon for different heights above sea level.
The higher you are the farther you can see to the horizon.
Which proves the curvature of the earth because the earth is a globe and not a flat disc.
I would be interested in seeing how Flat Earthers could deny the facts of that Official Navy Manual. 🙄

I would be interested in seeing how Flat Earthers could deny the facts of that Official Navy Manual. 🙄

Well, that makes 1 of us 

 

Quote from: alex314 on July 16, 2019, 11:01:11 PM

Hello Flat Earthers,

in this thread I would like you to describe any experiment/observation you have made yourself that shows evidence of a flat earth. Please describe your experiment/observation in detail, and why you think it shows an inconsistency to the 'globe model'.

Thank you

I walk out of my house and observed the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level and did not bend down from center on the left nor the right. I then drove to the beach and observed the same. I did not observe a curvizon because no curve was observed but I did observed a horizon; a word used in the English language to describe a straight line. .

I did notice that the buoy off in a distance was not visible at the time because of the science of heat and humidity, but it is always clearly seen in the mornings. I was not naive to think Earth curves in the afternoon.

I took a plane flight and noticed a horizon and it was still at eye level, but it should have been lower if it were a curvizon.  Observation is good science.

I saw nothing that indicated I lived on a sphere.

I am not one who follows the narrative of main stream.  If I was, I would believe trump is a bad orange man, democrats are good, multiple genders, global warming, Islam is a peaceful religion and other nonsense and hoaxes spread through media.

Now, please tell me what have you observed daily that would indicate you live on a sphere? Please tell me so I can observe them too.

Watch a sunrise from hour before it breaks the horizon and Watch a sunset and a hour after leaves the horizon. What's your see cannot be explained on a flat Earth.

 

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 20, 2019, 02:57:52 PM

Quote from: alex314 on July 16, 2019, 11:01:11 PM

Hello Flat Earthers,

in this thread I would like you to describe any experiment/observation you have made yourself that shows evidence of a flat earth. Please describe your experiment/observation in detail, and why you think it shows an inconsistency to the 'globe model'.

Thank you

I walk out of my house and observed the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level and did not bend down from center on the left nor the right. I then drove to the beach and observed the same. I did not observe a curvizon because no curve was observed but I did observed a horizon; a word used in the English language to describe a straight line. .

I did notice that the buoy off in a distance was not visible at the time because of the science of heat and humidity, but it is always clearly seen in the mornings. I was not naive to think Earth curves in the afternoon.

I took a plane flight and noticed a horizon and it was still at eye level, but it should have been lower if it were a curvizon.  Observation is good science.

I saw nothing that indicated I lived on a sphere.

I am not one who follows the narrative of main stream.  If I was, I would believe trump is a bad orange man, democrats are good, multiple genders, global warming, Islam is a peaceful religion and other nonsense and hoaxes spread through media.

Now, please tell me what have you observed fairly that would indicate you live on a sphere? Please tell me so I can observe them too.

Watch a sunrise from hour before it breaks the horizon and Watch a sunset and a hour after leaves the horizon. What's your see cannot be explained on a flat Earth.

Also watch how the tops of the masts of ships are the first thing you see of a ship approaching and coming over the horizon and then watch as it comes nearer and you gradually see the top decks and finally see the whole ship from hull to masts. Then watch as the ship goes over the horizon and the hull disappears first and the last thing you see are the tops of the masts as the ship disappears over the horizon. What you see cannot be explained on a flat Earth.

These are things that we have observed daily...... many times . You can  observe them too .

Have any FE's managed to find any ex- or active duty - Navy QMC's to talk to yet ?
And asking  them what they have seen at sunrise and/or sunset on the ocean and/or what they have seen when watching ships passing over the horizon on the ocean  ?

These are things that those old QMC's have probably observed daily , daily , daily  ......many times. You can observe them too.

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                       

Quote from: alex314 on July 16, 2019, 11:01:11 PM

Hello Flat Earthers,

in this thread I would like you to describe any experiment/observation you have made yourself that shows evidence of a flat earth. Please describe your experiment/observation in detail, and why you think it shows an inconsistency to the 'globe model'.

Thank you

I walk out of my house and observed the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level and did not bend down from center on the left nor the right.

Exactly as it should look on a Globe earth about 7,920 miles in diameter.

What next?

I then drove to the beach and observed the same. I did not observe a curvizon because no curve was observed but I did observed a horizon; a word used in the English language to describe a straight line. .

Exactly as it should look on a Globe earth about 7,920 miles in diameter.

Maybe you erroneously use horizon; "to describe a straight line" but that is not its meaning at all! [/b]:

horizon
1. the line at which the earth's surface and the sky appear to meet.

No mention of straight anywhere!

Have you ever taken note of the derivation of the word "horizon"?

horizon
late 14c., orisoun, from Old French orizon (14c., Modern French horizon), earlier orizonte (13c.), from Latin horizontem (nominative horizon), from Greek horizon (kyklos) "bounding (circle)," from horizein "bound, limit, divide, separate," from horos "boundary, landmark, marking stones."

No mention of straight anywhere!

Nevertheless, the horizon viewed from a low altitude on the Globe should be staright!

What next?

I did notice that the buoy off in a distance was not visible at the time because of the science of heat and humidity, but it is always clearly seen in the mornings. I was not naive to think Earth curves in the afternoon.

Are you sure it was "heat and humidity"?

Then I wonder what hides most of the container ship below. It sure doesn't look like "heat and humidity"!
These two photos are from a video of two large cargo ships off the coast near Wollongong, NSW and taken from about 10 m above sea-level.
The nearer ship is about 10 km from the camera but the farther ship's containers are is still very visible but most of the shIp is hidden behind something.

And here we have a huge bulk ore carrier quite visible:

And a container vessel with the hull hidden behind something:

The makes of the video those screenshots came from wrote:

MCtheEmcee1 Published on Mar 21, 2018
Cargo ship with the entire hull below the horizon. Only the containers are visible. Unless they're deploying cargo submarines these days....
The background ship called CONTI LYON, and at SEVEN pm,  that ship was at [-34.44074, 151.18053].
The foreground ship - EPIC - was moored at [-34.3693, 151.0004].
The camera was at location is -34.347 150.921  at 10m ASL.
Collins Rock, in the suburb of Woonona NSW.

So the nearer ship, the EPIC, was 16.7 km from the camera and the farther ship, the container ship was 26.0 km from the camera.

That certainly looks like seawater and not "heat and humidity" hiding most of the container ship.

What next?

I took a plane flight and noticed a horizon and it was still at eye level, but it should have been lower if it were a curvizon.  Observation is good science.

I saw nothing that indicated I lived on a sphere.

How do you know it was at eye-level? Did you measure it with some accurate level or just guess?
And what is the stupid "curvizon"? Haven't you learned yet that:

• Horizon simply means the dividing line between the  the earth's surface and the sky and
• until viewed from a very high elevation it should look straight or so close that you cannot tell the difference without careful measurement?

What next?

I am not one who follows the narrative of main stream.  If I was, I would believe trump is a bad orange man, democrats are good, multiple genders, global warming, Islam is a peaceful religion and other nonsense and hoaxes spread through media.

None of that seems at all relevant to the shape of the earth.

Now, please tell me what have you observed daily that would indicate you live on a sphere? Please tell me so I can observe them too.

• The sharp horizon whose distance varies with the height of the eye.
• Sunrises and sunsets:
  

  Time lapse of a sunset: Hawaii Sunset with Green Flash, Natalie Sirgo

  And the last bit of the sun disappearing: PACIFIC OCEAN SUNSET...Mardoval

  
  Then finally a couple of stills of the sun setting over the ocean at Weipa in Queensland:

  Sun near setting at Weipa

  Sunset at Weipa

And there are plenty more that need a little more explanation.

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 10:54:02 PM

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                     

I am not claiming to be an expert.
But those old Lookouts in the crow's nest were very good at estimating distances in relation to the distance to the horizon.
I didn't even know that simple equation for estimating the distance to the horizon until fairly recently.
If you have sailed on an old boat or new boat the things you sea on the ocean haven't changed.
It is just a plain fact that the higher you are the farther you can see to the horizon from a ship at sea.
Yes, but if you are taller you can see perhaps very little much  farther to the horizon than a shorter person.
I still think  you would find talking to a QMC - old or young,  new or one with years of service - to be interesting and educational, especially when the discussion is about the horizon.

I think you are evading doing the suggestions for observations for yourself.
For example .
See if there is any difference in the distance you can see to the horizon from ground level or the top of a ten story building ?
Watch a ship going over the horizon and see if you can see it again with your telescope after the ship has passed completely out of view after it has passed over the horizon ?

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 10:54:02 PM

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                     

Have you ever been on a ship and.:
(1) Looked around and observed the horizon ?
(2) Read any reference books ?
(3) Read any instruction manuals ?
(4) Read any training manuals ?

However I would have to admit I have never been on a tall three masted pirate ship.
Have you ?

I think the reason we are not getting  any responses to repeated requests for flat Earth believers to do some observations/experiments to prove the earth is flat is simply a case of "put up or shut up."
Flat Earth believers can not "put up" so they have just "shut up" ?
🙄

On the other hand "round earthers" have done these observations/experiments for themselves .
They have "put up" with  them and shown their results which prove the earth is a globe.

There have been other "round earthers" who may go into too much detail to prove their point.
If that is the case , what I am going to post is a case in point.
But in the example of my work as a radar technician, after I had performed the daily checks and tuning of the
Radar electronic equipment, which was located on the Main Deck (the antenna was located atop one of the highest masts on the ship), I would look out and make some visual sightings of ships or land. Then I would go up to the "CIC" (Combat Information Center) and see if those ships or land were showing on the radar. The point I would like to make is that I was unknowingly (at that time) proving that my eyes could only see a certain distance and the radar could only "see" a certain distance was because that distance was limited by the distance my eye and the radar could "see" to the horizon. And that distance depended on high my eye or the radar was above the sea level.

All of this was proof that this was due to some reason, and that reason was due to the curvature of the earth , which proved the earth was globe shaped.

I might have gone into too much detail, but this is just my explanation of just one of my  "observations/experiments" which proved the shape of the earth. I would be interested in a similar FE post explaining how they determined the earth was flat. If you have the time to type, I have plenty of time to read it.

If the earth was flat, there would be no curvature of the earth. That radar would not be limited in its range by the distance to the horizon and would have a much greater maximum range than it does because the earth is "round" ( or "globe shaped").

Then finally a couple of stills of the sun setting over the ocean at Weipa in Queensland:

Sun near setting at Weipa

Sunset at Weipa

[/li][/list]
And there are plenty more that need a little more explanation.

That's an illusion in the Round Earth model. You posted pictures of what the Round Earth model claims is an illusion. The sun is not in those positions in the sky in RET. The sun is already below the horizon in the second image. When the sun is touching the horizon RET says that the sun is already below it.

Quite odd that you are posting pictures of an illusion to tell us that an illusion is not occurring.

Now tell us how you can differentiate between a small illusion and a large one.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 23, 2019, 05:50:06 AM

Then finally a couple of stills of the sun setting over the ocean at Weipa in Queensland:

Sun near setting at Weipa

Sunset at Weipa

And there are plenty more that need a little more explanation.

That's an illusion in the Round Earth model. You posted pictures of what the Round Earth model claims is an illusion.

Please post your source for claiming that these are photos of an illusion.

Otherwise, your claim must simply be dismissed as the usual flat earth handwaving to explain away something that is impossible with the sun circling 15 km, or is it 700 statute miles, or is it 3000 miles or maybe some other height above the earth.

But might I suggest that the only illusion is that sunrise and sunset appear to be caused by the sun, itself, rising and setting whereas the real cause is that the earth is slowly rotating?

In other words, sunrises and sunsets themselves are not the illusion at all!

Quite odd that you are posting pictures of an illusion to tell us that an illusion is not occurring.

It's more odd that you cannot explain sunrises and sunsets without dreaming totally unsupportable hypotheses with weird perspective and/or unexplained deflection of light by unknown causes.

The sun is not in those positions in the sky in RET. The sun is already below the horizon in the second image. When the sun is touching the horizon RET says that the sun is already below it.

So what?
What is wrong with about a half degree of refraction when the cause is well known and the topic has been studied since around Tycho Brahe's time?

The light passing from the near-vacuum of space with a refractive index of 1.0000 into air where the sea-level refractive index is about 1.00029 so a little refraction is expected.

On the Globe earth, all this is so easily explained and little deviations like this have known causes but you have to hypothesise light curving by up to 20 degrees by some magical means!

A little advice: "People that live in glass houses should not through stones."

Now tell us how you can differentiate between a small illusion and a large one.

I don't have to in this case because what we see in not an illusion, it is just the cause that is the illusion - why is that a problem for you?[/list]

Quote from: rabinoz on July 23, 2019, 05:50:06 AM

Then finally a couple of stills of the sun setting over the ocean at Weipa in Queensland:

Sun near setting at Weipa

Sunset at Weipa

[/li][/list]
And there are plenty more that need a little more explanation.

That's an illusion in the Round Earth model. You posted pictures of what the Round Earth model claims is an illusion. The sun is not in those positions in the sky in RET. The sun is already below the horizon in the second image. When the sun is touching the horizon RET says that the sun is already below it.

Quite odd that you are posting pictures of an illusion to tell us that an illusion is not occurring.

Now tell us how you can differentiate between a small illusion and a large one.

I fail to make any sense of your statement these are illusions.
You may have somehow twisted the meaning of the word "illusion" is just my guess.

But they are  pictures of actual suns and sunsets .
In other words the camera saw what your eye saw..
I have some pictures which I took at Marathon, Florida which look very much like those pictures.
I haven't learned how to post them on this website.
But my pictures would look very much like those at Weipa.
Just any one of my observations and experiments.

Kindly show us some of similar flat Earth observations and experiments.



There might be pictures of mirages which might be called illusions but these pictures are not pictures of mirages.

Oh . Sorry. I overlooked  the fact that flat earthers do not consider photographs of anything as evidence of anything .🙄

Since flat earthers do not trust photographs, would there be any use if you, Tom Bishop, could show us some pictures of how you believe the sun would appear on a flat Earth. ?
If I have read some flat Earth on the subject correctly , wouldn't the pictures show a tiny dim sun appearing at sunrise rising to gradually become a large bright sun at noon  and then gradually becoming  a tiny dim sun as it disappeared at sunset ?
Instead of remaining the same size from sunrise to sunset ?

Quote from: Macarios on July 20, 2019, 03:54:17 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 20, 2019, 02:57:52 PM

... the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level...

Your don't have to trust the video.
It is cheap to make rig like this and see for yourself if the horizon "stays at the eye level".

Your buddy is leaving out an important issue, “Science” and perspective.  Earth has an infinite plane and at some point the horizon is going to be obscured with atmospheric bleeds (so to speak) . If your buddy did his experiment at different times of the year and day he would see the horizon would vary according to weather conditions. 


If your guy used this technology the horizon would be viewed at a higher point to the viewer.

Epic 500 mile visibility in Infrared from 31000 ft. Astounding and Shocking Flat Earth Phenomenon!

If you had a camera with a powerful enough lens and  an infrared filter you should be able to take pictures of San Diego or Honolulu from a ship at sea that was 500 miles from San Diego or Honolulu ........That is, IF the earth was flat.
Another subject for flat Earth observations/experiments.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 23, 2019, 05:50:06 AM

Then finally a couple of stills of the sun setting over the ocean at Weipa in Queensland:

Sun near setting at Weipa

Sunset at Weipa

[/li][/list]
And there are plenty more that need a little more explanation.

That's an illusion in the Round Earth model. You posted pictures of what the Round Earth model claims is an illusion. The sun is not in those positions in the sky in RET. The sun is already below the horizon in the second image. When the sun is touching the horizon RET says that the sun is already below it.

Quite odd that you are posting pictures of an illusion to tell us that an illusion is not occurring.

Now tell us how you can differentiate between a small illusion and a large one.

In the left picture Sun would, without refraction, already touch the horizon.
And that's about half of a degree difference.
Half of a degree is about 2 minutes of Sun's travel.
In the right picture we all see where the Sun goes.
Down.
Some 20 minutes later Sun will still be 5 degrees below horizon.
Or 6?
Or 4?
How important is he difference?
In any case it will be very far from those "5000 kilometers above the ground".
Far enough even from Sandokhan's 12 km.

~~~~~

Standard refraction bends light downward.
To bend it upward you need rare conditions.
Even those rare conditions can't bend light for those 10 or more degtrees
to make sunset out of the 3000 miles high Sun.

And no upward or downward bending can change azimuth (move Sun left or right)
to match due east (solar 6 am) and due west (solar 6 pm) directions for equinox
if the Sun wasn't alreadu there.

Standard downward bending is about 35 arc minutes near horizon.
That's less than one degree.

Atmospheric refraction of the light from a star is zero in the zenith,
less than 1′ (one arc-minute) at 45° apparent altitude,
and still only 5.3′ at 10° altitude;
it quickly increases as altitude decreases, reaching 9.9′ at 5° altitude,
18.4′ at 2° altitude,
and 35.4′ at the horizon;
all values are for 10 °C and 1013.25 hPa in the visible part of the spectrum.

(from:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction)

Globe model shows why Sun looks moved up for its own angular diameter.
Flat model can't show how Sun can look moved down for the quarter of the whole quadrant.
Simply because similar refraction table for Flat model would be so obviously in contradiction with reality.

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 10:54:02 PM

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                     

To Bullwinkle - And any and all other Flat Earth Believers :

"Round Earthers" have posted pictures and descriptions of  "observations/experiments " they have done for themselves which prove the earth is " Round " ( The Globe ).
Why haven't any " Flat Earthers " posted any pictures or descriptions of  " observations/experiments " they have done for themselves which prove the earth is " Flat " ( The Flat Disc ) ?
🙄

P.S. We "Round Earthers" AKA "Angry Globurists" aren't as smart as all you Flat Earth Geniuses.
Rather than think for ourselves we have to go those technical manuals for information ,  especially on things such as radio, radar and photography and most of all we have to go those training manuals to find out how to figure how you would estimate the distance to the horizon for a man in the crow's nest . I'm sorry. We are so ignorant and stupid we can't figure out these things for ourselves  just by ourselves but have to hit the books to find out how to do many things.
Please accept my apologies for being so stupid and ignorant about the truth of the flat earth.

P.P.S. And some of us who were in the Navy at one time or another even had to go to ask a QMC for answers to our questions.
That's why I suggested it might be a good idea for flat Earth believers to do the same .

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 23, 2019, 02:48:35 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 10:54:02 PM

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                     

To Bullwinkle - And any and all other Flat Earth Believers :

"Round Earthers" have posted pictures and descriptions of  "observations/experiments " they have done for themselves which prove the earth is " Round " ( The Globe ).
Why haven't any " Flat Earthers " posted any pictures or descriptions of  " observations/experiments " they have done for themselves which prove the earth is " Flat " ( The Flat Disc ) ?
🙄

P.S. We "Round Earthers" AKA "Angry Globurists" aren't as smart as all you Flat Earth Geniuses.
Rather than think for ourselves we have to go those technical manuals for information ,  especially on things such as radio, radar and photography and most of all we have to go those training manuals to find out how to figure how you would estimate the distance to the horizon for a man in the crow's nest . I'm sorry. We are so ignorant and stupid we can't figure out these things for ourselves  just by ourselves but have to hit the books to find out how to do many things.
Please accept my apologies for being so stupid and ignorant about the truth of the flat earth.

P.P.S. And some of us who were in the Navy at one time or another even had to go to ask a QMC for answers to our questions.
That's why I suggested it might be a good idea for flat Earth believers to do the same .

To be fair some flat earthers do devote a considerable amount of time and effort on their experiments. Take Wise the flat earth professor, he has spent a huge amount of time calculating a whole bunch of 'flat earth facts' using aircraft flight times. The one small point that he appears to be missing is that all commercial aircraft use satellite-based GPS systems and IRS systems based on the known positions, longitude and latitude, of all airports. In addition radio aids using beacons, again with precisely known positions are also used. His attempts though laudable, I suppose, are pretty much in vain as all airport locations are defined geographically according to accepted mapping data. Attempting to change their location to prove a point, appears to rather pointless!

As I and others have said before if there were a problem with our current maps these aircraft Wise references along with boats, and people would be being lost every single day of the week, and that is clearly not happening. I have yet to see any single flat earther including the leading light of the flat earth movement, John Davis, indicate any serious problem with our current maps. No one including Mr Davis has pointed out the incorrect location of any town, city, mountain, lake or forest on the planet. To date, I'm unaware of any call for changes to be made to maps to avoid people being lost.

As billions of people freely move around the world every day of the week all mostly arriving at their destinations, does this not demonstrate that all is good in regard to our current maps? If that is indeed the case why are flat earth advocates continuing to claim we have a problem with our maps?

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 10:54:02 PM

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                     

Is all we seem to get from flat Earthers  is nonsense and foolishness always like this ?
Maybe there aren't any Flat Earthers in the Navy is because they can't pass the physical exam ?
Maybe all Flat Earthers have Flat Feet ?
If FE's don't take their FE any more serious than this, why shouldn't we RE's have some fun, too ? LOL

Tell that stuff you posted, Bullwinkle , to a QMC and see what kind of a reaction you get ,  Bullwinkle !
That is, if you ever get the courage to talk to a QMC ?
On second thought , there are many other "Specialty Ratings" in the Navy , so you might talk to Chiefs who are RDC (Radarmen) , RMC (Radiomen) or even some other ETC (Electronic Technician ) . Of course Warrant Officers and Commissioned Officers would also be good persons to talk to you about your flat Earth. No need to limit the search to just QMC's.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 24, 2019, 02:09:38 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 23, 2019, 05:50:06 AM

Then finally a couple of stills of the sun setting over the ocean at Weipa in Queensland:

Sun near setting at Weipa

Sunset at Weipa

[/li][/list]
And there are plenty more that need a little more explanation.

That's an illusion in the Round Earth model. You posted pictures of what the Round Earth model claims is an illusion. The sun is not in those positions in the sky in RET. The sun is already below the horizon in the second image. When the sun is touching the horizon RET says that the sun is already below it.

Quite odd that you are posting pictures of an illusion to tell us that an illusion is not occurring.

Now tell us how you can differentiate between a small illusion and a large one.

In the left picture Sun would, without refraction, already touch the horizon.
And that's about half of a degree difference.
Half of a degree is about 2 minutes of Sun's travel.
In the right picture we all see where the Sun goes.
Down.
Some 20 minutes later Sun will still be 5 degrees below horizon.
Or 6?
Or 4?
How important is he difference?
In any case it will be very far from those "5000 kilometers above the ground".
Far enough even from Sandokhan's 12 km.

~~~~~

Standard refraction bends light downward.
To bend it upward you need rare conditions.
Even those rare conditions can't bend light for those 10 or more degtrees
to make sunset out of the 3000 miles high Sun.

And no upward or downward bending can change azimuth (move Sun left or right)
to match due east (solar 6 am) and due west (solar 6 pm) directions for equinox
if the Sun wasn't alreadu there.

Standard downward bending is about 35 arc minutes near horizon.
That's less than one degree.

Quote

Atmospheric refraction of the light from a star is zero in the zenith,
less than 1′ (one arc-minute) at 45° apparent altitude,
and still only 5.3′ at 10° altitude;
it quickly increases as altitude decreases, reaching 9.9′ at 5° altitude,
18.4′ at 2° altitude,
and 35.4′ at the horizon;
all values are for 10 °C and 1013.25 hPa in the visible part of the spectrum.

(from:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction)

Globe model shows why Sun looks moved up for its own angular diameter.
Flat model can't show how Sun can look moved down for the quarter of the whole quadrant.
Simply because similar refraction table for Flat model would be so obviously in contradiction with reality.

It most likely would depend on which Flat Earth Believer you talked to, but don't some FEB's say that the sun gets so far away and gets so tiny it can't be seen and that is what causes a sunset ?

Is all we are going to see are pictures of  Round Earth observations ?
Why not some pictures of Flat Earth observations and experiments ?

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 23, 2019, 02:48:35 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 10:54:02 PM

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                     

Is all we seem to get from flat Earthers  is nonsense and foolishness always like this ?
Maybe there aren't any Flat Earthers in the Navy is because they can't pass the physical exam ?
Maybe all Flat Earthers have Flat Feet ?
If FE's don't take their FE any more serious than this, why shouldn't we RE's have some fun, too ? LOL

Tell that stuff you posted, Bullwinkle , to a QMC and see what kind of a reaction you get ,  Bullwinkle !
That is, if you ever get the courage to talk to a QMC ?
On second thought , there are many other "Specialty Ratings" in the Navy , so you might talk to Chiefs who are RDC (Radarmen) , RMC (Radiomen) or even some other ETC (Electronic Technician ) . Of course Warrant Officers and Commissioned Officers would also be good persons to talk to you about your flat Earth. No need to limit the search to just QMC's.

Stop spamming.

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 27, 2019, 09:23:18 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 23, 2019, 02:48:35 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 10:54:02 PM

I  haven't seen it in print (but maybe there has been some that I have missed) but I wonder if FE's consider all those sailors in any Navy in the world who work with and know the earth is a globe on a 24/7 basis as evil liars of the conspiracy ?
I am still waiting to get some feedback on my FE to QMC suggestion.

You rode on a boat half a century ago.
You climbed a mast and you looked around.

You read the manual.
U R an X pert. We get it.


Please regale us with yet another story of tall three masted pirate ships.

Arrrr, thar be the horizon. Over thar.

How far?

Depends on how tall you arrrrr.

                     

Is all we seem to get from flat Earthers  is nonsense and foolishness always like this ?
Maybe there aren't any Flat Earthers in the Navy is because they can't pass the physical exam ?
Maybe all Flat Earthers have Flat Feet ?
If FE's don't take their FE any more serious than this, why shouldn't we RE's have some fun, too ? LOL

Tell that stuff you posted, Bullwinkle , to a QMC and see what kind of a reaction you get ,  Bullwinkle !
That is, if you ever get the courage to talk to a QMC ?
On second thought , there are many other "Specialty Ratings" in the Navy , so you might talk to Chiefs who are RDC (Radarmen) , RMC (Radiomen) or even some other ETC (Electronic Technician ) . Of course Warrant Officers and Commissioned Officers would also be good persons to talk to you about your flat Earth. No need to limit the search to just QMC's.

Stop spamming.

Roger. Wilco. Some times I do get carried away.
I am afraid at some times I take flat Earth too seriously.
But what about Rabinoz ?

Please accept my apologies !
I'll try to limit my comments in the future.

But what about Bullwinkle and Wise ?

Quote from: alex314 on July 16, 2019, 11:01:11 PM

Hello Flat Earthers,

in this thread I would like you to describe any experiment/observation you have made yourself that shows evidence of a flat earth. Please describe your experiment/observation in detail, and why you think it shows an inconsistency to the 'globe model'.

Thank you

I walk out of my house and observed the line between Earth and sky.  It was eye level

Or near it anyway. It drops but that drop isn't readily apparent unless you measure it or get higher in altitude
You could test it yourself with a theolodite, either the actual instrument or an app on your phone or make your own like this guy.

and did not bend down from center on the left nor the right. I then drove to the beach and observed the same. I did not observe a curvizon because no curve was observed but I did observed a horizon; a word used in the English language to describe a straight line. .

Nor should it curve side to side as your horizon is a circle around you at the same distance.

I did notice that the buoy off in a distance was not visible at the time because of the science of heat and humidity, but it is always clearly seen in the mornings. I was not naive to think Earth curves in the afternoon.

So you observed refraction. I bet if you increased your altitude then that buoy would have become visible.

I took a plane flight and noticed a horizon and it was still at eye level, but it should have been lower if it were a curvizon.  Observation is good science.

I bet you didn't actually measure it. See the video above.


I've stood at the beach in Mexico Beach, FL, at the Bay/Gulf county line and looked directly South towards Cape San Blas.  From that location one can see the trees on the cape (or at least you could before the hurricane last October) but not the beach or water line. I've tried to view them from that point with binoculars and a telescope but no amount of magnification will bring them into view. But just climbing up the ~15 to road level and all becomes visible. Also of note, in this part of the bay the water is often very calm and flat and was when the observations were made.

I've worked with both radio and RADAR from both ground and airborne platforms. In all cases the range of each depended on the height of the emitter and low altitude coverage was lost at long ranges, exactly as expected with a round Earth.

I've noted at various location around the globe that on the equinoxes the Sun rises due East and sets due West. Also as expected on a globe.

I've watched many sunrises and sunsets where the clouds are lit from underneath.

"Eye level".
That fantastic and highly accurate measurement.
So wheres dutchy who cries heresy when roundies claim "i saw the curve from my airplane" when flatties claim "i saw it rise to eye level"?