The infinite plane.

It would appear that some flat earth groups appear to think the earth is an infinite plane as apposed to just being flat.

I find this thought astonishing as the world has been mapped and been shown to be pretty finite, with its diameter, circumferences all being known pretty accurately.

Like it or like it not thousands of satellites whizz around the planet beaming back all sorts of data and it all confirms the earth is certainly  not infinite but very much finite.

I’m at a total loss to imagine why anyone, maths or no maths, could put forward such a clearly ridiculous idea. Though I did read a pretty cool sci-fi book recently where it allowed people to walk between planets using some kind of inter dimensional pathways, very cool, but fiction none the less.

The question is what proof is there that we live on an infinite plane?

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

The WGS-84 model is universally accepted as correct.

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

Ask John Davis or look up this in the FAQ in General:

Why doesn't gravity pull the earth into a spherical shape?
The earth isn't pulled into a sphere because the force known as gravity exists in a greatly diminished form compared to what is commonly taught. The earth is constantly accelerating up at a rate of 32 feet per second squared (or 9.8 meters per second squared). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
There are also other theories of flat earth thought that maintain that the earth sits on an infinite plane, with the sun moving overhead. Gravity works much like it does in a round-earth model, and the earth will never form into a sphere because the plane is endless.

Or in the main FAQ:

What Is Gravity?
Others make use of traditional mathematics, such as the infinite plane model.

If there is an infinite plane it will be very dark and cold, trending towards absolute zero as you move away from the warm, sunlit part enclosing the known flat earth.

At temperatures well above zero K most gases freeze to a solid, so there would be no atmospheric pressure over the infinite plane. The warm sunlit air over the flat earth would expand out over the infinite plane, cool down, freeze and fall to the ground. Repeat until the is no air left over the flat earth.

We are still here, breathing so that hasn't happened. The obvious conclusion, given the weight of all other evidence as well, is that the earth isn't flat, but to entertain the flat earth theory we must consider what stops the air leaking away over the infinite plane.

The most common FE idea which would address this is a dome, though this is falls down in many other ways.

The next idea would be an "open dome", ie, a wall so high that the air can't leak over the top, but if it was that high we would be able to see it.

Some FEers have proposed that the infinite plane is heated thus keeping the infinite atmosphere in a gaseous state... yet one more evidenceless FE claim.

It’s strange when discussing things like the finite plane as all rationality disappears out the window.

With over million flights every year flying over every part of our finite world you may have thought someone may have seen something worth reporting!......that’s aside from all the  satellites whizzing around the finite globe.

If we however suspend reality fora moment what proof is there that the earth is not finite?

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

Wow your English has remarkably improved!

Are you saying you believe all you believe without proof?

Quote from: wise on July 08, 2019, 12:14:16 AM

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

The WGS-84 model is universally accepted as correct.

What is the WGS-84 model and  what evidence do you have that supports your claim that this is universally  accepted as  being correct.

Quote from: inquisitive on July 08, 2019, 12:48:44 AM

Quote from: wise on July 08, 2019, 12:14:16 AM

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

The WGS-84 model is universally accepted as correct.

What is the WGS-84 model and  what evidence do you have that supports your claim that this is universally  accepted as  being correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System. with links to further information.  A world standard.

Quote from: Lonegranger on July 08, 2019, 03:58:52 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on July 08, 2019, 12:48:44 AM

Quote from: wise on July 08, 2019, 12:14:16 AM

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

The WGS-84 model is universally accepted as correct.

What is the WGS-84 model and  what evidence do you have that supports your claim that this is universally  accepted as  being correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System. with links to further information.  A world standard.

That’s all very interesting but I’m not quite sure what relevance it has with the infinite plane some flat  earth believers are promoting. The whole point of this thread is to look at what evidence there is for such a belief, and as yet none has been forthcoming.

Quote from: wise on July 08, 2019, 12:14:16 AM

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

Wow your English has remarkably improved!

Are you saying you believe all you believe without proof?

Nope. I clearly said your point its being finitive or infinitive is not the issue we are dwelling on. So you have opened this issue to manipulate our answers, right?

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Rob Skiba kicks their ass.



Since we have not enough possibilities to make such experiments, so you are forcing us to adress government backed agents. You shoult to shame on you.

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Who can refute this?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1335.html

Who can refute this?

Loads of people.
All it takes is an image showing an object obscured by the horizon, like the plenty that have already been posted on this forum.

The fact that they always  appear to do their measurements at night so all you see is the glow of the laser should tell you all you need to know.

What about that dude from the documentary, "Behind the curve"? Didn't he refute it?

After all these controversial disputes ... I had such an impression that the light rays bend along the surface of the earth. Someone did not think about this? Just the same as radio waves. But then you will have to admit much more that will contradict the current science! And to recognize that the land is not quite as we are told, or rather, as many people think. After all, the light rays passing near the sun are not at all bent! Since the sun does not have a gravity well.

After all, the light rays passing near the sun are not at all bent! Since the sun does not have a gravity well.

What ever gave you that idea? 

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2019, 09:46:29 AM

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Who can refute this?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1335.html

Isaac Newton:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Three_Body_Problem

Quote from: turtles on July 08, 2019, 10:47:51 AM

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2019, 09:46:29 AM

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Who can refute this?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1335.html

Isaac Newton:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Three_Body_Problem

Relevance?

After all these controversial disputes ... I had such an impression that the light rays bend along the surface of the earth. Someone did not think about this? Just the same as radio waves. But then you will have to admit much more that will contradict the current science! And to recognize that the land is not quite as we are told, or rather, as many people think. After all, the light rays passing near the sun are not at all bent! Since the sun does not have a gravity well.

Yes, under the right conditions light bends along the curve.

Rowbotham was conducting his Bedford Level Experiment using the "mirage behavior" of the light on the water of the Bedford canal.
Then Wallace installed poles 13 feet above the water and moved viewing line into region with more even temperatures among air layers.
Away from water the curvature was observed through the telescope.

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I went through the whole presentation of experiments. The greatest variance they found with their laser tests (8 in total) was 562 MM from what the WGS-84 states. That's millimeters. Most were in the 2 MM or less. Based upon FECORE's fine work, I would say they corroborated the WGS-84 and therefore a curved planet. Well done.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 08, 2019, 08:56:28 PM

Quote from: turtles on July 08, 2019, 10:47:51 AM

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2019, 09:46:29 AM

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Who can refute this?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1335.html

Isaac Newton:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Three_Body_Problem

Relevance?

According to Issac Newton the picture posted of a planetoid Earth and Moon lit by the Sun is only possible if God was holding the Sun-Earth-Moon system together, as it cannot stay together with the laws of gravity.

Quote from: Stash on July 08, 2019, 09:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 08, 2019, 08:56:28 PM

Quote from: turtles on July 08, 2019, 10:47:51 AM

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2019, 09:46:29 AM

Who can refute this?

https://fecore.org/project/laser-experiment/

Who can refute this?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1335.html

Isaac Newton:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Three_Body_Problem

Relevance?

According to Issac Newton the picture posted of a planetoid Earth and Moon lit by the Sun is only possible if God was holding the Sun-Earth-Moon system together, as it cannot stay together with the laws of gravity.

There have been one or two teeny weeny advances in physics since Isaac Newton.

Isaac Newton:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Three_Body_Problem

The only significance of that is that there is no analytic solution to the general problem.

But for the Sun, Earth, Moon system we do need an analytic solution. It is an existing system that has been observed for millenia.
Not only that but the Sun's mass is about 333,000 times the Earth's mass and the Earth's mass is about 81 times the Moon's mass.

So in the Sun, Earth, Moon system the Sun is so huge that it can be considered stationary with almost negligible error.

The moon is well inside the Earth's Hill Sphere of the Earth, Sun system and hence:
The Earth, Moon system can then be analysed as a two-bodied system and that two-bodied system and the Sun can be looked on as another two-bodied system.

The approximations mean that the precise orbits are slightly chaotic and so not exactly periodic but history proves that this is small.
The Babylonians were able to predict Solar eclipses using their Saros cycle, which is very good but not a precise prediction of times and locations.

So even the Sun, Earth, Moon system is not perfectly periodic but the rest of the planets, especially Jupiter and Saturn perturb motions still further.

But all this needs a topic of its own.

Even if one assumes that there are only two bodies and that the third mass-less body is in orbit around one of them, it's still chaotic: https://wiki.tfes.org/Three_Body_Problem#Hill.27s_Region

It doesn't work. There are no stable solutions, even with such simplification.

According to Issac Newton the picture posted of a planetoid Earth and Moon lit by the Sun is only possible if God was holding the Sun-Earth-Moon system together, as it cannot stay together with the laws of gravity.

While I don't doubt that Newton may have written that, would you care to post the source so his wording and the context can be examined.

Don't take the bait. The "Bishop N-Body Problem" is a red herring and has no relevance to this topic and no relevance to most. It's a classic diversionary tactic which he believes nullifies modern astronomy and astrophysics which it doesn't and again, has zero relevance to the topic at hand.

All he is doing is spreading TFES links in posts as clickbait and SEO. Do not bite.

Even if one assumes that there are only two bodies and that the third mass-less body is in orbit around one of them, it's still chaotic: https://wiki.tfes.org/Three_Body_Problem#Hill.27s_Region

It doesn't work. There are no stable solutions, even with such simplification.

There might be no periodic solution but the type of orbit is heavily dependent on the initial conditions.
And even with the two-bodied system the type of orbit can vary from a finite straight line (ellipse with eccntricity=1) to circular, parabolic, hyperbolic to an infinite straight line (a limiting hyperbola) - all depending on the initial conditions.

In the three body system the solution depends again on the initial conditions and some can readily drive the small body outside the Hill Sphere.

But with suitable initial conditions, while the solutions might not be exactly periodic (hence not classed as stable), they can remain bounded.

In the Sun, Earth, Moon system the Sun is so much more massive than the earth and the Moon's orbit well inside the Hill Sphere that the moon's orbit can be nearly elliptical though with a significant precession.

Quote from: Lonegranger on July 08, 2019, 03:45:54 AM

Quote from: wise on July 08, 2019, 12:14:16 AM

I don't know what flat earth group you mean. but I don't think these groups exist here.

proof is an ambitious word. if there was really complete proof, all flat earth believers would accept it. because those who believe in the flat earth are intelligent, rational, virtuous and knowledgeable. some of them have adopted the infinite model and some have adopted the finite model. however, since there is no conclusive evidence, I have not seen anyone who has reached a definite judgment on this. if you see someone who thinks so and has certain proof, please let us know.

Wow your English has remarkably improved!

Are you saying you believe all you believe without proof?

Nope. I clearly said your point its being finitive or infinitive is not the issue we are dwelling on. So you have opened this issue to manipulate our answers, right?

How can I manipulate what you say?  It appears that the infinite flat earth brigade have a belief in something for which there appears to be no evidence.......do you have any, is so, please share.