Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery

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Denspressure

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Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« on: July 04, 2019, 12:50:41 PM »
Photos taken by crew member onboard the USS Kearsarge.
October 3, 1962
Scans of original slides, color fade corrected and cleaned with Digital ICE.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steamarchive/albums/72157709390757626

The photos are not sharp enough to read the watches well, that could give us an exact time.
Perhaps with some imagination and comparison of different watches we can come close.
If you want to give it a shot, I can provide raw scans that got a higher dynamic range, usefull on the bright watch faces. Huge files though, without redcast correction.









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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2019, 06:54:08 AM »
Great photos. Thanks for sharing.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2019, 07:02:39 AM »
I look forward to anything you post.
Can't click quick enough.

love it.

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Denspressure

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2019, 03:41:12 AM »
Alright, story time!
These slides were taken by Jack, who was a Navy Lieutenant at the time the photos were taken. He had several tours in Japan prior to this and bought a camera there to pursued that as a hobby. I have been talking with the seller, jack's son.

On photo 3, Jack is leaning against Hg8.

Here is part of a memoir written by his wife:
"
I got up at 5:00 o' clock on Wednesday, October 3, to watch the launching from Cape Canaveral of the Mercury-Atlas 8 with Astronaut Wally Schirra.
It was the fifth United States man mission. It was so exciting! I had the radio on all day with reports. He made six orbits taking about nine hours.

I was able to see the pickup on TV in the late afternoon.

Jack's squadron had put in many hours of training in case the capsule didn't land where it was planned to come down.

However it was a perfect landing and came down near the USS Kearsarge. Jack took movies of the capsule floating down, and Schirra being helped out into the lifeboat by a couple of SEALS.

When the lifeboat came near the ship, there was much cheering and applause from the ship's crew.

Wally Schirra was first off the boat and was given a royal welcome.

Soon he was off to sick bay to be carefully checked by the doctors. He received a call from his wife and one from President Kennedy. What a thrilling day!

This next day was just as exciting for Jack because he had to honor to fly to Midway Island to pick up Astronaut M. Scott Carpenter, a close friend of Wally Schirra.

Jack was back with his passenger in less than three hours. Scott Carpenter had been on the previous launch into space. The astronauts had dinner with the Captain.

Because there was no admiral on the ship, Wally and Scott were given the Admiral's stateroom."
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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2019, 01:02:12 AM »
 I really appreciate this wonderful post. It has such a detailed information on the topic. Great job!



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Denspressure

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2019, 02:22:45 AM »
The 8mm recording mentioned in the memoir has been acquired and will eventually be digitized. Then it will be synchronised with the Mercury Atlas 8 recovery audio and possible NASA/News footage.
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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 06:53:06 AM »
Nice photos Den.
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Stash

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 12:16:45 AM »
Outstanding as always Den. Can't wait to see more.
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Denspressure

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2019, 12:53:06 AM »
Ungraded still from ma-8 recovery 8mm

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Heiwa

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2019, 02:24:13 AM »
LOL. This Mercury tin pot was never in space and never returned from space. It is an early example of Fake News.

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mak3m

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 02:41:28 AM »
LOL. This Mercury tin pot was never in space and never returned from space. It is an early example of Fake News.

Private photographs  ::)
You have to learn to reply without quoting a long previous answer.

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rabinoz

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 03:18:25 AM »
LOL. This Mercury tin pot was never in space and never returned from space.
Oh look, our favourite Fake News expert turned up like the proverbial bad penny!

Anything you can't understand, and that's most things, he declares size=18pt]Fake News[/size].
The real Fake here is you, Heiwa.

Atmospheric re-entry is pretty well understood:

Heat Shields - Things Kerbal Space Program Doesn't Teach, 550,337 views by Scott Manley, 986K subscribers

Wouldn't you love the views and subscribers that Scott Manley has ;D? And that 550,337 views is for just one video!

Maybe if you understood a few things it might help.

But it doesn't always go exactly to plan!

Soyuz Capsule Out of Control During Re-entry

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Heiwa

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2019, 04:27:17 AM »
LOL. This Mercury tin pot was never in space and never returned from space.
Oh look, our favourite Fake News expert turned up like the proverbial bad penny!

Anything you can't understand, and that's most things, he declares size=18pt]Fake News[/size].
The real Fake here is you, Heiwa.

Atmospheric re-entry is pretty well understood:

Heat Shields - Things Kerbal Space Program Doesn't Teach, 550,337 views by Scott Manley, 986K subscribers

Wouldn't you love the views and subscribers that Scott Manley has ;D? And that 550,337 views is for just one video!

Maybe if you understood a few things it might help.

But it doesn't always go exactly to plan!

Soyuz Capsule Out of Control During Re-entry

Thanks! But did this space capsule really fly up in space and then dropped down on Earth into the water?
And what was the whole purpose of it?
To me only idiots throw things up in the sky to see them dropping down again.

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Yes

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2019, 05:41:26 AM »
To me only idiots throw things up in the sky to see them dropping down again.
In a way, that's all life will ever be.  Just a short excursion out of entropy, only to return in due time.

Of course, if you're smart, you'll plan the trajectory so that the fall isn't at a 90° angle to the ground.  ;)
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markjo

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2019, 06:37:23 AM »
And what was the whole purpose of it?
Why ask questions when you will never understand the answers?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2019, 08:04:10 AM »
And what was the whole purpose of it?
Why ask questions when you will never understand the answers?
I understand a good joke. Like fake Americans in teapots in space. Of course you cannot return from space in a teapot. Or a flying saucer. So I still and always wonder why US Presidents & Co sent people into space. Didn't they understand it was impossible? This LBJ Potus looked more like a gangster ... so I just watched the show as usual when Nixon took over the rubbish.

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Denspressure

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2019, 08:08:36 AM »
At home, time for some grading and cropping:

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rabinoz

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2019, 12:33:02 PM »
And what was the whole purpose of it?
Why ask questions when you will never understand the answers?
I understand a good joke. Like fake Americans in teapots in space. Of course you cannot return from space in a teapot.
Maybe that's why the Americans did not go to space in teapots but in carefully designed capsules with very carefully profiled and protected heat shields.

Quote from: Heiwa
So I still and always wonder why US Presidents & Co sent people into space.
Possible because they decided that they could. Why do people climb Mt Everest?
But at the time, the main reason was to get ahead of the Russians. They would have gone eventually but not at such an accelerated pace.

Quote from: Heiwa
Didn't they understand it was impossible?
Nope, just maybe because it was not (quite) impossible and the Motto of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers during World War II was supposedly
        The Difficult We Do Immediately. The Impossible Takes a Little Longer but originally the thought was by:
Charles Alexandre de Calonne? Lady Aberdeen? George Santayana? Fridtjof Nansen? Nicolas Beaujon? Baron de Breteuil? Mrs. William Tilton? or somebody.

But little people, like you Mr. Anders Björkman, M.Sc. might be a Naval Architect and Marine Engineer, but that doesn't mean you have the background to understand aerothermodynamics.

Doesn't it get a mite uncomfortable sitting on that Dunning-Kruger Peak of Stupidity ;D?

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rabinoz

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2019, 03:52:54 PM »
Thanks! But did this space capsule really fly up in space and then dropped down on Earth into the water?
Don't ask questions when you already know the answer but are so ignorant of the topic that you don't have a hope of understanding it.

Quote from: Heiwa
And what was the whole purpose of it?
To me only idiots throw things up in the sky to see them dropping down again.
To me only idiots ask questions like that when it's obvious that it was one small step in preparing the way for the Apollo missions to the Moon.

Stick to cleaning toilets in garbage scows.  You might understand that.

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Heiwa

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2019, 06:23:23 PM »
According my understanding of aerothermodynamics the Mercury-Atlas 8 teapot could never survive a re-entry from space and an intact landing in water. So it was dropped from an airplane to impress people.

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Stash

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2019, 06:29:15 PM »
According my understanding of aerothermodynamics the Mercury-Atlas 8 teapot could never survive a re-entry from space and an intact landing in water. So it was dropped from an airplane to impress people.

The operative words here are, "According my understanding..."
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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rabinoz

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2019, 06:46:13 PM »
According my understanding of aerothermodynamics the Mercury-Atlas 8 teapot could never survive a re-entry from space and an intact landing in water. So it was dropped from an airplane to impress people.
Just as I said, simply because you cannot understand aerothermodynamics you assume it's a fake.
But there are many people with an understanding aerothermodynamics who know that with atmospheric re-entry can be achieved.

You, however, think that you, whose only expertise is in marine engineering, think that you should be able to understand fields as far apart as nuclear weapon design and spacecraft re-entry.

I seem to detect a case of extreme Dunning-Kruger Syndorme possibly surpassed only by our two self-proclaimed Flat Earth Scientists.

Well, obviously you don't understand these things so please desist in accusing those that do understand these things of lying!

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Heiwa

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2019, 07:20:51 PM »
According my understanding of aerothermodynamics the Mercury-Atlas 8 teapot could never survive a re-entry from space and an intact landing in water. So it was dropped from an airplane to impress people.
Just as I said, simply because you cannot understand aerothermodynamics you assume it's a fake.
But there are many people with an understanding aerothermodynamics who know that with atmospheric re-entry can be achieved.

You, however, think that you, whose only expertise is in marine engineering, think that you should be able to understand fields as far apart as nuclear weapon design and spacecraft re-entry.

I seem to detect a case of extreme Dunning-Kruger Syndorme possibly surpassed only by our two self-proclaimed Flat Earth Scientists.

Well, obviously you don't understand these things so please desist in accusing those that do understand these things of lying!

Well, just explain how a re-entry from the Moon takes place and collect €1M from me. See thread at top of page.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2019, 08:40:13 PM »

According my understanding of aerothermodynamics . . .

infinity divided by zero?   ::)

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Stash

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2019, 10:11:16 PM »
According my understanding of aerothermodynamics the Mercury-Atlas 8 teapot could never survive a re-entry from space and an intact landing in water. So it was dropped from an airplane to impress people.
Just as I said, simply because you cannot understand aerothermodynamics you assume it's a fake.
But there are many people with an understanding aerothermodynamics who know that with atmospheric re-entry can be achieved.

You, however, think that you, whose only expertise is in marine engineering, think that you should be able to understand fields as far apart as nuclear weapon design and spacecraft re-entry.

I seem to detect a case of extreme Dunning-Kruger Syndorme possibly surpassed only by our two self-proclaimed Flat Earth Scientists.

Well, obviously you don't understand these things so please desist in accusing those that do understand these things of lying!

Well, just explain how a re-entry from the Moon takes place and collect €1M from me. See thread at top of page.

Nah, much prefer checking out Denpressure's super awesome resurrected stills showing that it was done than trying to explain to someone with a tremendous and deep understanding of aerothermodynamics how it was done.
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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Heiwa

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2019, 01:29:15 AM »

According my understanding of aerothermodynamics . . .

infinity divided by zero?   ::)
No, you have to study my writings about it. Very popular.

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rabinoz

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2019, 01:55:47 AM »
According my understanding of aerothermodynamics . . .

infinity divided by zero?   ::)
No, you have to study my writings about it. Very popular.
Very popular, very wrong.

Maybe you should enlighten us on your "understanding of aerothermodynamics"?

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Heiwa

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2019, 07:25:24 AM »
According my understanding of aerothermodynamics . . .

infinity divided by zero?   ::)
No, you have to study my writings about it. Very popular.
Very popular, very wrong.

Maybe you should enlighten us on your "understanding of aerothermodynamics"?

OK - here we go!

A re-entry is done by a spacecraft or an ICBM returning to Earth from space at high speed that manages slowing down and land in 10 to 30 minutes. The first re-entry with a human aboard was done by Juri Gagarin 1961 ICBM style with start on Earth and a landing on Earth a little later. It was a communist hoax! It never happened in reality! It was Fake News! Pure propaganda.

The velocity at beginning of any re-entry at top of atmosphere (altitude 120 000 meters) - the re-entry interface - differs considerably depending on where the space craft comes from. It is suggested that a manned spacecraft arrives with speed >21,000 m/s, when coming from planet Mars, >11,000 m/s, when coming from the Moon or only about 8,000 m/s, when coming from Earth Parking Orbit, EPO. Reason for different re-entry velocities is that Earth gravity has accelerated the spacecrafts during different times; weeks for a spacecraft coming from Mars, days for a spacecraft coming from the Moon and hours for a spacecraft trying to descend from a space station in EPO or 30 minutes for an ICBM descending from its top altitude You must arrive at the starting point of a re-entry at the right time! If you arrive 10 seconds too early or late, you miss the end point - the landing zone or target - by 80 000 - 210 000 meters! What the change of direction (°/s) is better forgotten. Spacecrafts are supposed to land at 0 speed so parachutes are required at the end. ICBMs will just go faster and faster during re-entry. During re-entry there is always a break in communication between spacecraft or ICBM.

Assuming that it is possible to steer the spacecraft or ICBM to arrive at the correct location, at the right moment, at the right direction at the upper atmosphere in Earth 3D space (it isn't), it is suggested that suddenly a big brake force (!) develops out of nowhere up in the sky which slows down the spacecraft to land in front of a welcome committee with a brass band. It is suggested that this big brake force is due only to contact between the spacecraft or ICBM and air or atmosphere but it is aerothermodynamics nonsense.

It cannot happen in reality!

Only brain washed people believe it!

The first re-entry in history after a trip to the Moon was Apollo 8  on December 27, 1968. Apollo 8 was a small spacecraft capsule/command module without toilet. At 139h15m after start (and no visits to the toilet) Apollo 8 was 94 800 kms from Entry Interface 6h30m away. Speed was only 2 650 m/s. 37 minutes later Apollo 8 was 88 900 kms from Entry Interface with speed 2 740 m/s. During the next 6 hrs velocity increased all the time, e.g. 63 minutes later at140h55m - 78 300 kms from Entry Interface - speed 2 926 m/s, 124 minutes later at 142h59m - 56 340 kms from Entry Interface - speed 3 443 m/s, 37 minutes later at 143h36m - 49 000 kms from Entry Interface - speed 3 680 m/s, 37 minutes later at 144h13m - 41 255 kms from Entry Interface - speed 3 993 m/s, 25 minutes later at 144h38m - 35 188 kms from Entry Interface - speed 4 276 m/s, 31 minutes later at 145h09m - 28 254 kms from Entry Interface - speed 4 712 m/s, 23 minutes later at 145h32m - 21 531 kms from Entry Interface - speed 5 265 m/s, 13 minutes later (1 hr 1 m to Entry Interface) at 145h45m - 17 800 kms from Entry Interface - speed 5 588 m/s, 27 minutes later at 146h12m - 9 167 kms from Entry Interface - speed 7 103 m/s. At 146h31m the Service module was dumped (it burnt up in the atmosphere). Command module continued alone at increased speed. Reason why velocity increased and direction turned down to Earth was that Earth gravity force accelerated Apollo 8 straight down all the time!

Re-entry Interface at 120 000 m altitude was apparently reached at 146h46m - speed was then 11,040 m/s! Maybe they were above Tokyo at that time? With that speed straight down Apollo 8 would have hit the Ginza after 11 seconds. It didn't happen. Apollo 8 flew off towards Palmyra island in a remote area of the Pacific Ocean (where nobody could watch)!

What happened then, i.e. the real re-entry trajectory from Entry Interface to splash down is not really known. It was an aerothermodynamics mystery. There was a break in communication but at 146h54m - drogue chutes were out at 7 000 m altitude (we are told) (speed estimate 200 m/s?), at 146h55m - chutes were deployed and at 147h00m - splash down - December 27, 1968 (at 15.51.42 UTC local time), pos 8°8'N 165°1' W. Hole in one! Just in front of awaiting US navy ships and a brass band playing! The Apollo 8 crew could finally go to the toilet.

How Apollo 8 managed to slow down from 11 040 m/s speed to 0 in 14 minutes (or 840 seconds) at 13.14 m/s² has never really been explained. It was due to aerothermodynamics of course but how? Everyone was so happy that it just happened, so nobody ever asked ... how? Actually no re-entry took place at all. It was just a Hollywood show! Apollo 8 command module was dropped from a US airplane that took off from an airbase nearby.

Willy Low was happy! Americans believed anything 1968! The US Space Program was a success! Even if it was 100% fakery!

If e.g. Apollo 11 with mass 5 500 kg would start its re-entry with a speed of about 11 000 m/s, when arriving in and dipping into the upper, very thin atmosphere at say 120 000 meters altitude - the re-entry interface - with a certain direction relative ground and, if you intend to slow down at a constant 18.0 m/s² deceleration during about 10 minutes, you must apart from the brake force in the opposite direction of travel also counter the 9.8 m/s² vertical downwards pull of Earth gravity. It would appear that the constant, total force suddenly applied to re-enter and land must be of the order 130 900 N (that corresponds to 23.8 m/s² deceleration) during 10 minutes and you should of course wonder where it comes from. Aerothermodynamics? That force will also change your direction!

Can a force of 130 900 N (or 13 tons) just suddenly appear out of nowhere up in the sky at 120,000 m altitude?

It is suggested that this brake force consists of aerodynamic drag and lift but there is no air at 120,000 m altitude to provide any drag and lift. Aerothermodynamics!

Regardless, drag/lift forces are functions of spacecraft shape and flow, velocity and air density, which are changing all the time, i.e. the forces are not constant and so it is impossible to predict the brake trajectory of the re-entry from when the variable drag/lift forces are applied. You have not got a clue, where you will end up! It means that you will start to spin and burn up.

Furthermore it is suggested (already 1966) that a future spacecraft arriving from Mars at 21 000 m/s speed will bounce (LOL) on the top of the atmosphere, skip out and do a second re-entry (terminal control) a little later, i.e. the brake force lifts the spacecraft back into space again at first contact with the atmosphere.

But how do you control and determine such a high speed, skip out re-entry? Can you do it braking or speeding up with a rocket engine?

In order just to prepare a re-entry from EPO you must ensure that you arrive on time at the location to start re-entry at the exact speed/direction. If you are too early or too late to start your re-entry, you must slow down or speed up before to arrive in order not to make a mess of the rest.

It is not easy. It is in fact very difficult. The only way to slow down is to fire your rocket engine. Apollo 11 didn't have any but the Shuttle had:

To adjust re-entry speed at around 8 000 m/s velocity only from EPO costs plenty fuel. Say that your Shuttle arrives at 8 050 m/s speed with kinetic energy 32 401 250 J/kg, but that it should arrive at 7 950 m/s speed and kinetic energy 31 601 250 J/kg to succeed the complete re-entry. The difference in kinetic energy is then 800 000 J/kg.

Have you got the fuel to adjust the speed 100 m/s? The answer is simple.

Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky has established that the change in velocity, delta-v, of a spacecraft in vacuum space (no influence of gravity of adjacent planet Earth) is a function of the mass ratio (spacecraft mass before, m0 and after, m1 firing the rocket engine, difference m0 - m1 being the fuel mass ejected as exhaust gas and the exhaust velocity ve of gas leaving the spaceship rocket nozzle.

Delta-v = ve ln (m0/m1)

Example - here we want to slow down a 78 000 kg (m0) Shuttle (with fuel) entering the atmosphere backwards at a almost horizontal speed of 8 050 m/s (no influence of gravity) to 7 950 m/s to ensure arriving at the re-entry location. The fuel aboard is ejected at a velocity ve of say 4 000 m/s. Delta-v is 100 m/s!

Then ln(m0/m1) = 0.025 and m0/m1 is about 1.025315!

It means that you need ~2.5% of the spacecraft mass or 2 000 kg of fuel just to slow down 100 m/s or 1.25% of the speed!

If your rocket engine is an old one with ve only 2 800 m/s, then ln(m0/m1) = 0.035 and m0/m1 is about 1.03636!

It means that you need ~3.6% of the spacecraft mass or 2 800 kg of fuel just to slow down 100 m/s!

And you have to fire the rocket engine in exactly the right direction at the right time/location! Otherwise you brake out of correct direction! And will miss the target.

Let's face it. You cannot do it. You cannot carry the fuel required! You cannot aim the brake force in the right direction.

How Apollo 11 without any rocket engine aboard managed to arrive at the re-entry start point in the upper atmosphere at the right time/speed/direction in 1969 is a mystery. Or not! It was all fantasy!

All re-entries since 1961 are hoaxes! You are going too fast and do not know your speeds, positions and directions at any moment and cannot adjust anything, as you do not have the means to do it.

The re-entry was an integral part of the 1957-1991 US/USSR fake 'space race', i.e. simple propaganda. The Russians just said it was dead easy and the Americans agreed. But it was and is impossible.

Etc, etc. Guess where above is from!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 07:32:23 AM by Heiwa »

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2019, 07:55:04 AM »
If you can calculate the throw of a baseball to the Nth degree you can calc orbital trajectories.

I mean, not you, obviously.
Smart people.

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frenat

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Re: Private photos of Mercury-Atlas 8 Recovery
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2019, 08:35:22 AM »
So in Heiwa's world, RADAR doesn't exist. That would be the only way they wouldn't know their "speed, positions, and directions". Or the far more likely, heiwa doesn't understand so he assumes it is fake.