“American Moon” - Can Fashion Photographers Falsify the Apollo Landings?

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Careful, you are misquoting with incorrect attribution to fit your confirmation bias:
Please elaborate how that quote fits my conformation bias.
I simply want to know, if, when and how Edgar Mitchell could see ten times numerous and ten times brighter stars from looking through the capsule's window in cislunar space.
You don't get the plague by answer4ing this question specifically.

Let's get your citations fixed first.

The quote you referenced is actually from Gary Nicholls, not Jared Olson:
I don't know either persons, but you should anwser the content, that is 100% as you found out.
So again...  if, when and how Edgar Mitchell could see ten times numerous and ten times brighter stars from looking through the capsule's window in cislunar space.

Ummm, let's see here. You used a quote mis-attributed to Jared Olson and were quite specific in citing him as an "Expert":

I am really curious because an expert says Edgar Mitchell saw the impossible :
Jared Olson NASA robotics flight controller has to say :

And are now mystified as to how the errant quote fits your confirmation bias? Interesting dodge on your part. First off, be more careful when quote mining and check your sources. Hopefully a lesson learned for you.

Second off, Jared Olson's real quote answers your question.

Gary Nicholls, Optics, spectroscopy, astronomy and astrophysics.
Answered Jul 25, 2018 · Author has 199 answers and 43.3k answer views
"The visibility of the stars depend on where the observer is and which way he is looking. From cislunar space the stars are not visible, neither to a camera or by eye, and the only experiment performed by the Apollo astronauts on their way to the Moon and back confirmed this. Up to 5 minute exposures with the most sensitive film available ( only to the military) showed no stars."

This, from the same article, is Jared Olson’s actual quote:

Jared Olson, Flight controller at NASA (2007-present)
Answered Jul 21, 2018 · Author has 417 answers and 952k answer views

"They do not disagree (regarding the Apollo 11 Post Flight Press Conference) if you take their comments in context. In certain situations you cannot see stars: bright sunlight, brightly lit surroundings, eyes adjusted to bright light.

In other situations you can see many, many stars: looking out the ISS windows at night, once your eyes are adjusted, or using cameras adjusted to the correct exposure.
"

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-astronauts-disagree-on-seeing-stars-in-space-Why-did-Aldrin-say-he-didnt-see-stars-but-the-astronauts-on-the-ISS-say-they-do

Now you seem to know how things work in cislunar space in relation to the sun, position of the spacecraft and the behaviour of the human eye.
Surely you can answer the next question in detail NOW
 when and how could Edgar Mitchell see ten times numerous and ten times brighter stars from looking through the capsule's window in cislunar space.?

Where do I claim to "know how things work in cislunar space in relation to the sun, position of the spacecraft and the behaviour of the human eye."? What an odd and desperate thing to say. Merely pointing out how you are mis-quoting 'experts' to fit you view. Decidedly disingenuous to do so.

Here's an answer to you question which has already been answered by myself and others several times now. I'll let Neil answer it this time:

Apollo 11 Transcript

02 23 59 20  Neil Armstrong: "Houston, it's been a real change for us. Now we are able to see stars again and recognize constellations for the first time on the trip. It's—the sky is full of stars. Just like the nightside of Earth. But all the way here, we have only been able to see stars occasionally and perhaps through the monocular, but not recognize any star patterns.”

02 23 59 52  Bruce McCandless: "I guess it has turned into night up there really, hasn't it?”

02 23 59 58  Neil Armstrong: "Really has.”

Tranquility base here. Godwin’s Law has landed.
Care to answer If, how and why Edgar Mitchell could see ten times numerous and ten times brighter stars from the capsule's window in cislunar space by using his eyes only ?

I’ve given my answers.  You may not like them, but why are you acting like I haven’t?

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sokarul

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Careful, you are misquoting with incorrect attribution to fit your confirmation bias:
Please elaborate how that quote fits my conformation bias.
I simply want to know, if, when and how Edgar Mitchell could see ten times numerous and ten times brighter stars from looking through the capsule's window in cislunar space.
You don't get the plague by answering this question specifically.
Quote
The quote you referenced is actually from Gary Nicholls, not Jared Olson:
I don't know either persons, but you should anwser the content, that is 100% as you found out.
So again...  if, when and how Edgar Mitchell could see ten times numerous and ten times brighter stars from looking through the capsule's window in cislunar space.
Quote
Gary Nicholls, Optics, spectroscopy, astronomy and astrophysics.
Answered Jul 25, 2018 · Author has 199 answers and 43.3k answer views
"The visibility of the stars depend on where the observer is and which way he is looking. From cislunar space the stars are not visible, neither to a camera or by eye, and the only experiment performed by the Apollo astronauts on their way to the Moon and back confirmed this. Up to 5 minute exposures with the most sensitive film available ( only to the military) showed no stars."

This, from the same article, is Jared Olson’s actual quote:

Jared Olson, Flight controller at NASA (2007-present)
Answered Jul 21, 2018 · Author has 417 answers and 952k answer views

"They do not disagree (regarding the Apollo 11 Post Flight Press Conference) if you take their comments in context. In certain situations you cannot see stars: bright sunlight, brightly lit surroundings, eyes adjusted to bright light.

In other situations you can see many, many stars: looking out the ISS windows at night, once your eyes are adjusted, or using cameras adjusted to the correct exposure.
"

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-astronauts-disagree-on-seeing-stars-in-space-Why-did-Aldrin-say-he-didnt-see-stars-but-the-astronauts-on-the-ISS-say-they-do
Now you seem to know how things work in cislunar space in relation to the sun, position of the spacecraft and the behaviour of the human eye.
Surely you can answer the next question in detail NOW
 when and how could Edgar Mitchell see ten times numerous and ten times brighter stars from looking through the capsule's window in cislunar space.?

It’s already been explained to you by multiple people. Different conditions lead to different light conditions.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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dutchy

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It’s already been explained to you by multiple people. Different conditions lead to different light conditions.
Almost there.... that means that Edgar Mitchell's view was indeed possible and an accurate reflection of what can be seen under certain circomstances in cislunar space ?

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sokarul

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Sure
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Stash

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It’s already been explained to you by multiple people. Different conditions lead to different light conditions.
Almost there.... that means that Edgar Mitchell's view was indeed possible and an accurate reflection of what can be seen under certain circomstances in cislunar space ?

Yes, how many ways does this have to be phrased for you to get it? If you had actually done the work and got the quote and author right the first time, maybe you would have stepped out of your comfort bias and figured it out on your own. Again, here's the right quote, read it a few times and stop misquoting people to support your POV:

Jared Olson, Flight controller at NASA (2007-present)
Answered Jul 21, 2018 · Author has 417 answers and 952k answer views

"They do not disagree (regarding the Apollo 11 Post Flight Press Conference) if you take their comments in context. In certain situations you cannot see stars: bright sunlight, brightly lit surroundings, eyes adjusted to bright light.

In other situations you can see many, many stars: looking out the ISS windows at night, once your eyes are adjusted, or using cameras adjusted to the correct exposure."

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dutchy

  • 2366
It’s already been explained to you by multiple people. Different conditions lead to different light conditions.
Almost there.... that means that Edgar Mitchell's view was indeed possible and an accurate reflection of what can be seen under certain circomstances in cislunar space ?

Yes, how many ways does this have to be phrased for you to get it? If you had actually done the work and got the quote and author right the first time, maybe you would have stepped out of your comfort bias and figured it out on your own. Again, here's the right quote, read it a few times and stop misquoting people to support your POV:

Jared Olson, Flight controller at NASA (2007-present)
Answered Jul 21, 2018 · Author has 417 answers and 952k answer views

"They do not disagree (regarding the Apollo 11 Post Flight Press Conference) if you take their comments in context. In certain situations you cannot see stars: bright sunlight, brightly lit surroundings, eyes adjusted to bright light.

In other situations you can see many, many stars: looking out the ISS windows at night, once your eyes are adjusted, or using cameras adjusted to the correct exposure."
Get off your irritating high horse please......

I know the differences about who claimed to see stars when and where,,,,from the ISS, the moon, cislunar space etc.
Varying from a black void, bottomless pit effect and ''brightest stars ever''. re-appearing stars.....

What you utterly failed to grasp is that similar conditions must have more or less the same outcome......and when astronauts are in similar conditions the outcome must have great similarity...
Your only ''buy out clause'' is ''different conditions''.....but sometimes there are similar conditions with strongly different outcomes because of lying astronauts !
I understand the former from the beginning mister wiseguy, you suffer from cognitive dissonance about the probability of the latter.





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sokarul

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Where are the lying astronauts?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

They were paid actors.
Look at the budget.

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Stash

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It’s already been explained to you by multiple people. Different conditions lead to different light conditions.
Almost there.... that means that Edgar Mitchell's view was indeed possible and an accurate reflection of what can be seen under certain circomstances in cislunar space ?

Yes, how many ways does this have to be phrased for you to get it? If you had actually done the work and got the quote and author right the first time, maybe you would have stepped out of your comfort bias and figured it out on your own. Again, here's the right quote, read it a few times and stop misquoting people to support your POV:

Jared Olson, Flight controller at NASA (2007-present)
Answered Jul 21, 2018 · Author has 417 answers and 952k answer views

"They do not disagree (regarding the Apollo 11 Post Flight Press Conference) if you take their comments in context. In certain situations you cannot see stars: bright sunlight, brightly lit surroundings, eyes adjusted to bright light.

In other situations you can see many, many stars: looking out the ISS windows at night, once your eyes are adjusted, or using cameras adjusted to the correct exposure."
Get off your irritating high horse please......

I'm not the one who took a quote from one guy and attributed it to a different guy, an 'expert', to bolster my argument, you did. High horse not required to point that out, you lowered the bar of credibility so I didn't even need to stand up.

I know the differences about who claimed to see stars when and where,,,,from the ISS, the moon, cislunar space etc.
Varying from a black void, bottomless pit effect and ''brightest stars ever''. re-appearing stars.....

What you utterly failed to grasp is that similar conditions must have more or less the same outcome......and when astronauts are in similar conditions the outcome must have great similarity...
Your only ''buy out clause'' is ''different conditions''.....but sometimes there are similar conditions with strongly different outcomes because of lying astronauts !
I understand the former from the beginning mister wiseguy, you suffer from cognitive dissonance about the probability of the latter.

Again, you're argument is a non-argument: Astronauts are liars. Well done. Your credibility bar just dropped down a few more notches.

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dutchy

  • 2366
I'm not the one who took a quote from one guy and attributed it to a different guy, an 'expert', to bolster my argument, you did. High horse not required to point that out, you lowered the bar of credibility so I didn't even need to stand up.
Seriously....you think that accounts for anything at all ?
I copy pasted an entire fragment from the www...including the name.
You pointed out the content belonged to another expert, but the content was the same.
Instead of commenting on the content that said  ''extremely visible stars'' were never seen or photographed in cislunar space, you go jumping around like a child claiming some sort of papyrus victory, because i attached the wrong expert to the content (no idea how that happened)...
Quote
Again, you're argument is a non-argument: Astronauts are liars. Well done. Your credibility bar just dropped down a few more notches.
You are out of strong wordings bro,...but i know from experience it's an age thing.
After i few decades you will grow up....just like i did.

Both Apollo 11 and 14 had ''similar'' capsule's and both should have comparable sightings in many overlapping variations in what could be seen from the capsule's window.
The opposite is true like i have shown again and again......
The only option is both Neil Armstrong and Edgar Mitchell made their story up.
Neil Armstrong would never ever have said '“The sky is a deep black when viewed from the Moon as it is when viewed from cislunar space, the space between the Earth and the Moon. The Earth is the only visible object other than the Sun that can be seen although there have been some reports of seeing planets''......
If he also saw bright stars in cislunar space.... of course he would have told Patrick Moore about circomstances and how he also saw super bright stars from the window at certain periods.

Here a summary

John Young (Gemini 10) "Standing there in the black void of space was truly amazing. Everywhere we looked there were stars, even below us. They were a little brighter than what we saw from Earth, but what impressed us was that they didn't twinkle. That was because there was no intervening atmosphere to cause what the astronomers call scintillation.”

The planet Venus was so incredibly bright it appeared like it was a UFO. Mike Collins later commented that “it looked like a 50-watt bulb in the sky".3

Michael Collins (Gemini 10) "My God the stars are everywhere; above me on all sides even below me somewhat, down there next to that obscure horizon. The stars are bright and they are steady. This is the best view of the Universe that a human has ever had. Venus appears so bright that I have to convince myself that it really is Venus, not by its appearance, but by its position in the sky at the spot where Venus should be."4

Bill Anders (Apollo 8) "The sky was a sort of grey, you couldn't see stars very well..." describing cislunar space in An Evening with the Apollo 8 Astronauts (Annual John H. Glenn Lecture Series).

Neil Armstrong (Apollo 11) “The sky is a deep black when viewed from the Moon as it is when viewed from cislunar space, the space between the Earth and the Moon. The Earth is the only visible object other than the Sun that can be seen although there have been some reports of seeing planets. I myself did not see planets from the surface but I suspect they might ...er ...be visible." Armstrong speaking to Patrick Moore on the BBC astronomy program The Sky at Night in 1970.

Michael Collins (Apollo 11) How telling is it, that during the morose and lugubrious post-Apollo 11 press conference, that Michael Collins could only reply with comatose timidity to Patrick Moore's query concerning the visibility of the stars. "I don't recall..." Not a hint of surprise, no incentive to expound upon Apollo's dull vistas comparative to his awesome visions from the beguiling Gemini 10 (see above).*

Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14) “The Stars were ten times brighter than when viewed from the Earth" [in cislunar space].**

Charles Duke (Apollo 16) "You couldn't see stars, it was too bright" [in cislunar space]. Speaking to me at Autographica in 2012, and reiterated at various public speaking engagements such as this event with Charles Duke.

Mike Melvill, SpaceShipOne "Seeing the bright blue sky turning pitch black and seeing stars appear while it is daytime is absolutely mind-blowing."5 So the first civilian to reach space in a privately-financed spacecraft nullifies assertions from Apollo 8, Apollo 11 and Apollo 16 astronauts.

Extra content
*Apollo 11 Before a large audience at Autographica in 2012, Edgar Mitchell (in response to my reference concerning Armstrong's affirmation that he couldn't see stars in cislunar space) shot down my assertion that Neil Armstrong was entitled to be credited with great expertise in astronomy with the retort: "He didn't know what he was talking about!"

This emphatic statement, resounding with such certainty, reduced the audience to a jaw-dropping silence. Neil Armstrong was in fact, by far the most qualified astronomer in the astronaut corps. The YouTube clip Neil Armstrong Misleads Patrick Moore sensationally contrasts the incompatible viewpoints of the two NASA operatives.

**Apollo 14 Following his euphoric sermon at Autographica citing no less than a metaphysical rebirth as a result of the effects of observing stars in cislunar space, Mitchell was asked by a audience member to describe his thoughts whilst observing the Earth from the Moon. "We didn't have time for that many things," he replied vacuously.

Edgar's sudden volte-face of passion, his inability to equate the spiritual component of the lunar surface vista with his cislunar epiphany were laid bare. From the front of the audience, I was able to focus on Ed's eyes which, to my thinking, unequivocally betrayed his inability to step from truth-based oratory to opaque illusion.

The man from MIT seemed unwilling to leave the pulpit with a conflicted conscience. His only other option was to dissociate himself from the question and the questioner. This he did. However, unable to convey one iota of the emotional conviction that had accentuated his cislunar soliloquies, Mitchell's virtually instantaneous Jekyll and Hyde behaviour soured even his most fervent acolytes, who now winced with incredulity.

Your sickening worship of authorty is a real threat for your freedom as an induvidual, capable of independent thoughts
Don't let them have it all Stash.... :-[
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 12:15:05 PM by dutchy »

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sokarul

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You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink....
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Stash

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I'm not the one who took a quote from one guy and attributed it to a different guy, an 'expert', to bolster my argument, you did. High horse not required to point that out, you lowered the bar of credibility so I didn't even need to stand up.
Seriously....you think that accounts for anything at all ?

Yes, seriously, I do. You attributed a quote to support your argument to a NASA employee/expert that was not his. That makes the content erroneous and irrelevant.

I copy pasted an entire fragment from the www...including the name.

Yes, the wrong name.

You pointed out the content belonged to another expert, but the content was the same.
Instead of commenting on the content that said  ''extremely visible stars'' were never seen or photographed in cislunar space, you go jumping around like a child claiming some sort of papyrus victory, because i attached the wrong expert to the content (no idea how that happened)...

It seems highly important to put the quote with the correct expert. And the correct quote is:

Jared Olson, Flight controller at NASA (2007-present)
Answered Jul 21, 2018 · Author has 417 answers and 952k answer views

"They do not disagree (regarding the Apollo 11 Post Flight Press Conference) if you take their comments in context. In certain situations you cannot see stars: bright sunlight, brightly lit surroundings, eyes adjusted to bright light.

In other situations you can see many, many stars: looking out the ISS windows at night, once your eyes are adjusted, or using cameras adjusted to the correct exposure.
"

Which is in stark contrast to the content of the quote you incorrectly attributed to Jared Olson, NASA. Which takes the oxygen out of your argument.

Again, you're argument is a non-argument: Astronauts are liars. Well done. Your credibility bar just dropped down a few more notches.
You are out of strong wordings bro,...but i know from experience it's an age thing.
After i few decades you will grow up....just like i did.

Both Apollo 11 and 14 had ''similar'' capsule's and both should have comparable sightings in many overlapping variations in what could be seen from the capsule's window.
The opposite is true like i have shown again and again......
The only option is both Neil Armstrong and Edgar Mitchell made their story up.
Neil Armstrong would never ever have said '“The sky is a deep black when viewed from the Moon as it is when viewed from cislunar space, the space between the Earth and the Moon. The Earth is the only visible object other than the Sun that can be seen although there have been some reports of seeing planets''......
If he also saw bright stars in cislunar space.... of course he would have told Patrick Moore about circomstances and how he also saw super bright stars from the window at certain periods.

And Neil went on to say:

Apollo 11 Transcript

02 23 59 20  Neil Armstrong: "Houston, it's been a real change for us. Now we are able to see stars again and recognize constellations for the first time on the trip. It's—the sky is full of stars. Just like the nightside of Earth. But all the way here, we have only been able to see stars occasionally and perhaps through the monocular, but not recognize any star patterns.”

02 23 59 52  Bruce McCandless: "I guess it has turned into night up there really, hasn't it?”

02 23 59 58  Neil Armstrong: "Really has.”


Here a summary

John Young (Gemini 10) "Standing there in the black void of space was truly amazing. Everywhere we looked there were stars, even below us. They were a little brighter than what we saw from Earth, but what impressed us was that they didn't twinkle. That was because there was no intervening atmosphere to cause what the astronomers call scintillation.”

The planet Venus was so incredibly bright it appeared like it was a UFO. Mike Collins later commented that “it looked like a 50-watt bulb in the sky".3

Michael Collins (Gemini 10) "My God the stars are everywhere; above me on all sides even below me somewhat, down there next to that obscure horizon. The stars are bright and they are steady. This is the best view of the Universe that a human has ever had. Venus appears so bright that I have to convince myself that it really is Venus, not by its appearance, but by its position in the sky at the spot where Venus should be."4

Bill Anders (Apollo 8) "The sky was a sort of grey, you couldn't see stars very well..." describing cislunar space in An Evening with the Apollo 8 Astronauts (Annual John H. Glenn Lecture Series).

Neil Armstrong (Apollo 11) “The sky is a deep black when viewed from the Moon as it is when viewed from cislunar space, the space between the Earth and the Moon. The Earth is the only visible object other than the Sun that can be seen although there have been some reports of seeing planets. I myself did not see planets from the surface but I suspect they might ...er ...be visible." Armstrong speaking to Patrick Moore on the BBC astronomy program The Sky at Night in 1970.

Michael Collins (Apollo 11) How telling is it, that during the morose and lugubrious post-Apollo 11 press conference, that Michael Collins could only reply with comatose timidity to Patrick Moore's query concerning the visibility of the stars. "I don't recall..." Not a hint of surprise, no incentive to expound upon Apollo's dull vistas comparative to his awesome visions from the beguiling Gemini 10 (see above).*

Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14) “The Stars were ten times brighter than when viewed from the Earth" [in cislunar space].**

Charles Duke (Apollo 16) "You couldn't see stars, it was too bright" [in cislunar space]. Speaking to me at Autographica in 2012, and reiterated at various public speaking engagements such as this event with Charles Duke.

Mike Melvill, SpaceShipOne "Seeing the bright blue sky turning pitch black and seeing stars appear while it is daytime is absolutely mind-blowing."5 So the first civilian to reach space in a privately-financed spacecraft nullifies assertions from Apollo 8, Apollo 11 and Apollo 16 astronauts.

Extra content
*Apollo 11 Before a large audience at Autographica in 2012, Edgar Mitchell (in response to my reference concerning Armstrong's affirmation that he couldn't see stars in cislunar space) shot down my assertion that Neil Armstrong was entitled to be credited with great expertise in astronomy with the retort: "He didn't know what he was talking about!"

This emphatic statement, resounding with such certainty, reduced the audience to a jaw-dropping silence. Neil Armstrong was in fact, by far the most qualified astronomer in the astronaut corps. The YouTube clip Neil Armstrong Misleads Patrick Moore sensationally contrasts the incompatible viewpoints of the two NASA operatives.

**Apollo 14 Following his euphoric sermon at Autographica citing no less than a metaphysical rebirth as a result of the effects of observing stars in cislunar space, Mitchell was asked by a audience member to describe his thoughts whilst observing the Earth from the Moon. "We didn't have time for that many things," he replied vacuously.

Edgar's sudden volte-face of passion, his inability to equate the spiritual component of the lunar surface vista with his cislunar epiphany were laid bare. From the front of the audience, I was able to focus on Ed's eyes which, to my thinking, unequivocally betrayed his inability to step from truth-based oratory to opaque illusion.

The man from MIT seemed unwilling to leave the pulpit with a conflicted conscience. His only other option was to dissociate himself from the question and the questioner. This he did. However, unable to convey one iota of the emotional conviction that had accentuated his cislunar soliloquies, Mitchell's virtually instantaneous Jekyll and Hyde behaviour soured even his most fervent acolytes, who now winced with incredulity.

Your sickening worship of authorty is a real threat for your freedom as an induvidual, capable of independent thoughts
Don't let them have it all Stash.... :-[

See NA transcript above.

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rabinoz

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Your sickening worship of authorty authority is a real threat for your freedom as an induvidual individual, capable of independent thoughts
Don't let them have it all Stash.... :-[
Still attacking people, I see, but with never any evidence!

Look, dutchy, YOU weren't there and so YOU know nothing of the exact conditions those statements refer to, yet YOU dare call everybody that disagrees with YOUR ideas liars.

Don't you think that if NASA were trying to deceive people they would carefully get all these "stories" consistent? After all they could have plenty of people to arrange that!

Likewise with all the other so-called evidence for a Lunar Mission Hoax. If it was a hoax NASA could easily have made everything consistent.

One example, the Van Allen Belts. All the information for them was gained from very high altitude sounding rockets and from satellites that YOU claim are impossible.
Why would NASA publicise this data about these supposedly deadly VABs then send the Apollo craft through them without investigating the matter first?

Another is the thermosphere. Again all the information for that was gained from very high altitude sounding rockets and from satellites.
So why would NASA send the Apollo craft through them the thermosphere without investigating the matter first? Of course the thermosphere is a non-issue!

Yet, Bart Sibrel, YOU and other Moon-Hoaxers still claim that the VABs and thermosphere somehow make these long-distance space missions impossible.

Then all the supposedly "fake photographs". NASA could have available far more photographic and image processing experts than YOU or other moon-hoaxers could ever muster.

Yet these photographs are still claimed to be "CGI" because of shadows etc! What rubbish - if NASA wanted to fool little people like YOU they would have no problem.
But NASA published all the lunar mission photos, poor exposures, mistaken photos - every last frame.

So, all YOU can do is attack people!