What is common to both Flat and Globe model?

Your magnetic declination is nothing but hoax.

No, it is very real. All it takes to observe it is to determine the direction to geographic north, which can be done in many ways, such as observing a time lapse of the night sky to determine the location of the celestial pole, or using a laser ring gyroscope, or measuring the length of the sun's shadow on a level surface and finding where it is longest.
Then compare that to a compass.

If you wish to assert Polaris is located in the same direction that the compass points, you need to prove it.
Stop just asserting garbage.

Quote from: wise on July 03, 2019, 04:00:45 AM

Your magnetic declination is nothing but hoax.

No, it is very real. All it takes to observe it is to determine the direction to geographic north, which can be done in many ways, such as observing a time lapse of the night sky to determine the location of the celestial pole, or using a laser ring gyroscope, or measuring the length of the sun's shadow on a level surface and finding where it is longest.
Then compare that to a compass.

If you wish to assert Polaris is located in the same direction that the compass points, you need to prove it.
Stop just asserting garbage.

I am always using compass and it always shows the Polaris. If you don't believe me so come to Northern hemiplane and see it by your own eyes. Observation prevents you makes more BS.

I am always using compass and it always shows the Polaris. If you don't believe me so come to Northern hemiplane and see it by your own eyes. Observation prevents you makes more BS.

Why are you still talking on the thread?  I gave you RE distances between 4 European cities and challenged you to show on a sheet of paper a drawing showing those 4 cities and the distances between them using a scale of your choice.

The challenge was: Put up or Shut up.

Put up or Shut up.  Either post the drawing with a scale, or don't post here again.

<bs>

Adults are talking. There are your fathers talkings represent the angry globularist earth society. I can't meet all of your demands at the same time. this was asked to me and I answered it. now you have to accept that the world is flat, as rabblack admits.

Adults are talking. There are your fathers talkings represent the angry globularist earth society. I can't meet all of your demands at the same time. this was asked to me and I answered it. now you have to accept that the world is flat, as rabblack admits.

Put up or Shut up.

I am always using compass and it always shows the Polaris.

Again, PROVE IT!
Your words are worthless due to how often you lie.
I can check the corresponding south pole, and guess what? The south celestial pole (which is aligned with the south geographic pole) is not in the direction of a compass pointing south.
That is enough for me to conclude that the north celestial pole is not in the direction of a compass pointing north.

If you want to continuing asserting it is, then that will just be another massive contradiction between FE and reality, between FE and RE.

But it is just another pathetic distraction from your inability to defend your prior claim.

You demanded 4 cities on your map, I gave them.
Now care to tell us the distance between them, accurate to within a few km?
Or care to produce a map with the 4 cities already provided with all 6 distances correct?
Or are you really say FE has no idea of the distances such that the massive errors mean any particular distance can match between the model.
For example, RE says 500 km, FE says somewhere between 400 km and 600 km.

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 03, 2019, 09:31:44 AM

<bs>

now you have to accept that the world is flat, as rabblack admits.

Wise, please run away until you accept that there is no rabblack! There is rabinoz, me, and there is JackBlack, a totally different person.

And neither of us accept that "accept that the world is flat". If you cannot post honestly please do not post at all!

Quote from: wise on July 03, 2019, 05:08:09 AM

I am always using compass and it always shows the Polaris.

Again, PROVE IT!

Prove the opposite.

Quote from: wise on July 03, 2019, 09:41:39 AM

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 03, 2019, 09:31:44 AM

<bs>

now you have to accept that the world is flat, as rabblack admits.

Wise, please run away

Put up or Shut up.

Quote from: JackBlack on July 03, 2019, 02:58:21 PM

Quote from: wise on July 03, 2019, 05:08:09 AM

I am always using compass and it always shows the Polaris.

Again, PROVE IT!

Prove the opposite.

You are both right.

If you see the map, and look at the poles from Turkey, you will see that North Magnetic Pole is right behind Geographic North Pole.

From there those two poles are practically at the same line and compass will "show Polaris".

Prove the opposite.

You are the one making the claim, as such the burden of proof is on you.
Prove a compass always points to Polaris or your claim will be dismissed as nonsense.
Especially as Polaris isn't even always visible.

If you see the map, and look at the poles from Turkey, you will see that North Magnetic Pole is right behind Geographic North Pole.

From there those two poles are practically at the same line and compass will "show Polaris".

That doesn't actually help.
As Earth's magnetic field isn't a simple dipole (if it was magnetic north and geomagnetic north are in the same place) you can draw a line from your position in the direction the compass points and not actually get to magnetic north.

From maps I have found the declination in Turkey is 2 to 4 degrees. Most likely too small for inky to notice them being different, especially with his cheap compasses.

But if he is just using one point, he shouldn't be saying always.

From maps I have found the declination in Turkey is 2 to 4 degrees. Most likely too small for inky to notice them being different, especially with his cheap compasses.

But if he is just using one point, he shouldn't be saying always.

As you can see, he can say whatever he wants.
His goal is not to prove something.
He wants to "convince people and win".

Some people don't understan that this is not about "overpowering".
Religious Dogma worked that way, forcing people to believe what they were told.
Science doesn't.
People exchange data, test, experiment, measure, compare, reject obsolete and make progress.

~~~~~

On trial the defendant has his right to tell lies all he wants.
The purpose of the trial is to determine if they really are lies and to dismantle them if possible.

~~~~~

This is not for you, this is for all of us:

It is irrelevant on whom is "the burden of proof".
"Hitting the ball into their court" is non-productive.

If you know how to prove something, do it.
If you don't, then how do you know it is true?
Only by collecting more data and seeing with yourself if you are right.

People exchange data, test, experiment, measure, compare, reject obsolete and make progress.

I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat. Your so called claims, some names can not change this truth.

From maps I have found the declination in Turkey is 2 to 4 degrees. Most likely too small for inky to notice them being different, especially with his cheap compasses.

Your map is wrong so that declination is valid for only for your map. there is no need for declination on a real map. my compass always points to the same place and there is polaris on that place. As someone who lives in Australia, it is your own problem that you do not see it and believe it because Polaris is far from you. this is proof that it doesn't help that you have ideas without you have knowledge about it. you can't even be sure it exists. Because you've never seen her. You just look at the pictures shown to you, we see it with our naked eyes. So asking for evidence when you have no proof about something you don't see doesn't magically justify you.

Quote from: Macarios on July 10, 2019, 10:07:34 PM

People exchange data, test, experiment, measure, compare, reject obsolete and make progress.

I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat. Your so called claims, some names can not change this truth.

You did it the other way around.

You decided the world is what you want it to be and then discarded, twisted, or mocked all data that disprove your decision.

there is no need for declination on a real map.

No, there is. The declination can be quite significant, and it changes over time.

it is your own problem that you do not see it and believe it because Polaris is far from you.

No it isn't.
If Earth was flat, I should easily be able to see Polaris.

you can't even be sure it exists. Because you've never seen her.

Just because I live in Australia doesn't mean I haven't been elsewhere. I have seen Polaris.

Again, if you wish to assert Polaris is always the direction a compass points, provide evidence.
Provide pictures from numerous locations around the world, clearly showing Polaris in the sky with a compass to show the direction of magnetic north.

Quote from: wise on July 11, 2019, 01:10:32 AM

Quote from: Macarios on July 10, 2019, 10:07:34 PM

People exchange data, test, experiment, measure, compare, reject obsolete and make progress.

I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat. Your so called claims, some names can not change this truth.

You did it the other way around.

You decided the world is what you want it to be and then discarded, twisted, or mocked all data that disprove your decision.

Nope. This is a slander. As I said, I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat; you are free to accept it or not, but it is so. All flat earthers were round earthers for a while. But after we have meeted the flat earth, we have investigated and decided its being true. This will be your way too if you are a man just.

Quote from: wise on July 11, 2019, 01:14:50 AM

there is no need for declination on a real map.

No, there is. The declination can be quite significant, and it changes over time.

No, there isn't. Your map requires because it is fake. My map shows north with perfect accuracy no need to magnetic declination in any of it. Because your map is fake and flat earth maps are true, you know.

No it isn't.

Telling opposite of what I say does not help your case at all. Yes it is. Are you child?

If Earth was flat, I should easily be able to see Polaris.

Nope. You can not see because of for visual reasons you can't see it. this topic has been announced many times. but you didn't understand it because you were ignorant. your ignorance cannot be a reason about the shape of the world.

Just because I live in Australia doesn't mean I haven't been elsewhere. I have seen Polaris.

So you know it always stays north whereever you are. Use a compass and you'll see compass always see it wherever you are. There isn't anything as declination or any other BS which produced to hide your map mistakes. No need it at all.

Again, if you wish to assert Polaris is always the direction a compass points, provide evidence.

There are countless evidences in youtube. Open it and watch. I have watched it countlessly and show its being true. Watch and learn.

Provide pictures from numerous locations around the world, clearly showing Polaris in the sky with a compass to show the direction of magnetic north.

This is what I say. Thanks for admitting the truth. Yeah, north in compass always shows Polaris, wherever you are. No need to magnetic declination at all.

No, there isn't. Your map requires because it is fake.

No, RE maps require it to show positions accurately, because magnetic north is rarely aligned with geographic north.
Your map shows nothing perfectly.

Nope. You can not see because of for visual reasons you can't see it

Yes, visual reasons like Earth getting in the way because it is curved.

There are countless evidences in youtube.

And that is just another baseless claim from you.
I can find plenty of videos on youtube discussing magnetic declination.
But none showing Polaris is in the direction of magnetic north.

Do you have any evidence at all, or just your baseless claim?

This is what I say. Thanks for admitting the truth.

No, that is what you claim, without justification. I am asking for evidence and providing an example of such evidence.
That is not me admitting to your lie.
Now can you provide this evidence?

No, RE maps require it to show positions accurately, because magnetic north is rarely aligned with geographic north.

Nope. Because there is one magnetic north and it always stays same point. Your map mistakes only interest you.

Your map shows nothing perfectly.

Everything is perfect in my map. Prove the opposite. Claiming its being wrong without any evidence can not magically make it wrong.

Yes, visual reasons like Earth getting in the way because it is curved.

Nope. You are wrong again. As how you can't see the sun after it gone far more than 6000kms you can't see Polaris because of same reason, it is too far you see it.

And that is just another baseless claim from you.

Nope. There is. You are talking vast in vain. Make a search and then show the results. Your claimg them being absent does not magically make them absent.

I can find plenty of videos on youtube discussing magnetic declination.

Finding discussing about something does not magically make it true. It is still a BS.

But none showing Polaris is in the direction of magnetic north.

It is so. You did not search for it, just lyed.

Do you have any evidence at all, or just your baseless claim?

All evidences provided and you have denied all of them. Your denying evidences does not magically make them absent.

No, that is what you claim, without justification.

This is what you have admitted.

I am asking for evidence and providing an example of such evidence.

Example isn't an evidence by itself. Your claiming its being an example such an example does not magically make it an evidence. You are denying every kind of evidences and repeating same made up BS.

That is not me admitting to your lie.

You've admitted so you are liar.

Now can you provide this evidence?

The word this isn't a claim of evidence. Stop talking baseless.

Quote from: Macarios on July 11, 2019, 02:08:49 AM

Quote from: wise on July 11, 2019, 01:10:32 AM

Quote from: Macarios on July 10, 2019, 10:07:34 PM

People exchange data, test, experiment, measure, compare, reject obsolete and make progress.

I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat. Your so called claims, some names can not change this truth.

You did it the other way around.

You decided the world is what you want it to be and then discarded, twisted, or mocked all data that disprove your decision.

Nope. This is a slander. As I said, I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat; you are free to accept it or not, but it is so. All flat earthers were round earthers for a while. But after we have meeted the flat earth, we have investigated and decided its being true. This will be your way too if you are a man just.

Along some longer beach select two points 1852 meters away from each other.
The vertical line at one point will be one arc minute tilted away from the vertical line at the other point.

You measured things, so you have sextant. (Or maybe even theodolite.)
You can measure this.

You exchanged data, so you know why is Nautical Mile defined to be 1852 meters.

You tested things, so you know that horizon does not remains at eye level as you go higher.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would accept the Earth to be flat if it really was.
But in reality it is not the case.

Quote from: wise on July 11, 2019, 02:29:41 AM

Quote from: Macarios on July 11, 2019, 02:08:49 AM

Quote from: wise on July 11, 2019, 01:10:32 AM

Quote from: Macarios on July 10, 2019, 10:07:34 PM

People exchange data, test, experiment, measure, compare, reject obsolete and make progress.

I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat. Your so called claims, some names can not change this truth.

You did it the other way around.

You decided the world is what you want it to be and then discarded, twisted, or mocked all data that disprove your decision.

Nope. This is a slander. As I said, I've exchanged data, tested, experimented, measured, compared and decided the earth is flat; you are free to accept it or not, but it is so. All flat earthers were round earthers for a while. But after we have meeted the flat earth, we have investigated and decided its being true. This will be your way too if you are a man just.

Along some longer beach select two points 1852 meters away from each other.
The vertical line at one point will be one arc minute tilted away from the vertical line at the other point.

You measured things, so you have sextant. (Or maybe even theodolite.)
You can measure this.

You exchanged data, so you know why is Nautical Mile defined to be 1852 meters.

You tested things, so you know that horizon does not remains at eye level as you go higher.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would accept the Earth to be flat if it really was.
But in reality it is not the case.

This is not the case. You can do this test maybe in a sea, but not in a lake. Because lakes haven't enough high waves prevent your observation. There are many experiments prove lakes are completely flat.

Experiment 1:



Experiment 2:



And the last one. Simple and short video.



Now we are waiting you to keep your promise and start to agree the flat earth reality.

PS: I still don't open youtube videos just have controlled it by a different way.

Where are your 1 m waves at this sea?

Where are your 1 m waves at this sea?

You are too far to see it. There are some formulas calculate the highness of waves. Use them. And that picture is also manipulated. You can't see a curve like that. It is a proof this photos being manipulated. You can ask whether its being manipulated or not to another flat earth believer around. 

Formula involves the wind speed.
What happens when there's almost no wind?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where are 1 m waves ar Black Sea, in Fındıklı, Rize ?

Formula involves the wind speed.
What happens when there's no wind?

There is always wind. Stop to manipulate. You can't see the high of highness of a wave 10 kilometres far to you. Calculate its angular size.

Quote from: Macarios on July 11, 2019, 06:54:02 AM

Formula involves the wind speed.
What happens when there's no wind?

There is always wind. Stop to manipulate. You can't see a wave 10 kilometres far to you. Calculate its angular size.

Sailor on the ship could see them, and there are none. Is he 10 km away too?

Have you ever been on a ship?
Did you see those waves all the time?

I saw Adriatic see at many places, sometimes waves weren't bigger than 10 cm.
(Except those that our boat made behind. Those were 25 cm.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Two sails at open sea.
Look how far back is the land.
Don't you think they would see those waves, if there were any around them?

Stop to manipulate.

I am not manipulating.

YOU are the one who is trying to trick naive people into Flat Earth belief, not me.

Nope. Because there is one magnetic north and it always stays same point.

Prove it.
All the evidence shows otherwise.

Everything is perfect in my map. Prove the opposite.

I have, repeatedly, even in this thread, but you just ignore it.
How about you deal with the disproves I have already provided, such as the longitude difference between Sydney and Perth requires it to be closer to the centre than the equator, or the 2 pairs of cities where you have the wrong one further north?

As how you can't see the sun after it gone far more than 6000kms you can't see Polaris because of same reason

You mean ~10000 km, because it is then hidden by the curvature of Earth.
It clearly has nothing to do with distance, because the math shows it should still be well above the horizon and there is no decrease in brightness as you go further from it.

Make a search and then show the results. Your claimg them being absent does not magically make them absent.

Here you go:
https://i.imgur.com/de94YvR.png
https://i.imgur.com/mL6DMIV.png
The first is a crappy song.
The second is just a baseless assertion that Polaris is magnetic north with a strawman of what the RE model indicates, completely ignoring the strength of the magnetic field involved and its shape.
The 5th is a podcast primarily talking about how to circumnavigate on a pizza planet, with no evidence provided.
The 7th provides a method to find polaris using magnetic north, with a note saying it isn't as accurate as the other methods as magnetic north is not directly in line with Polaris.
The 8th is attacking the globe by fully accepting magnetic declination and trying to use that against a RE.
And plenty discussing magnetic deviation.

But perhaps the best one is this one:

A video by a flat Earthing proving that Polaris is left of magnetic north.

I guess that settles it.
Polaris isn't always in line with magnetic north.
So I guess that is one point FEers and REers can agree on.

This is what you have admitted.

I have admitted no such thing.
In no way was that post of mine any form of admission.
It was an instruction to you, telling you to provide evidence, with a specific form of evidence.

I know that the example is not evidence itself, it was an example of what said evidence should contain.

Now do you have this evidence, or should I use the above video to conclude that you are wrong?