Elections

Today are the EU elections in Greece, as well as the local ones. I'm off to vote now, I can't say much, I'm just leaving this here.

Ok so far it's looking like Kasidiaris, some Golden Dawn neo nazi who beat up an old lady on live TV, is going to come second in the mayoral elections for Athens, and because the first one doesn't have more than 50%, he will qualify for round 2. This country is garbage.

No country has been remained in Europe nothing but garbage. Europe is almost collapsing like a vortex. pulls everything the outside. If you try to escape, you can't escape. Even immigrants in Turkey is no longer emigrated to Europe. european was absolute freedom. and now in the hands of extreme right currents.

Yeah it's true, the far right is still very threatening. Though overall Golden Dawn has fallen compared to the last elections.

OK according to the first results, Kasidiaris is getting kinda fucked so eh.

Yeah it's true, the far right is still very threatening. Though overall Golden Dawn has fallen compared to the last elections.

Left party is stronger in turkey too. I think the nationalism movement has been tried in the world and did not work. maybe this was done in some countries like ukraine to fuel the opposition to russia and there is no need anymore. The United States follows Europe. Accordingly, the Democrats must win the future elections in US. until then, I think that the US will have a discordance with the rest of the world.

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 26, 2019, 08:57:36 AM

Yeah it's true, the far right is still very threatening. Though overall Golden Dawn has fallen compared to the last elections.

Left party is stronger in turkey too. I think the nationalism movement has been tried in the world and did not work. maybe this was done in some countries like ukraine to fuel the opposition to russia and there is no need anymore. The United States follows Europe. Accordingly, the Democrats must win the future elections in US. until then, I think that the US will have a discordance with the rest of the world.

It's not so much that here. It's just that there have now sprung up a bunch of new nationalist parties and they split their vote.

In other news, New Democracy has taken almost every province except for one and they look poised for a win by a pretty large margin in the general elections (which will take place earlier than expected, in June), so we're just gonna have to prepare for total neoliberal domination.

Holy shit Lega Nord in Italy won by a huge margin, it's fucked up.

Le Pen beat Macron in France.

Yeah I saw that. At least it wasn't as big a victory as she expected.

And of course the brexit party won most seats here... Totally not because of a multitude of EU citizens being denied their right to vote for no good reason. Nope.
Though in fairness, percentage-wise the pro-EU parties (Lib Dems, Green, SNP) got more votes than brexit and UKIP. They just got fewer seats because of course they did.

Just for context, the party that got the most votes is the party that hasn't even released a manifesto yet.

At least the Tories and Labour got screwed over.

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme on both ends of the political spectrum.

So, more elections where the majority is wrong?

So, more elections where the majority is wrong?

Yep.

At least voter turnout increased to 50.95%. That's up from 42.6% in 2014 and reverses a four-decade long decline from 62% in 1979.

It's easier to have representative democracy when a majority of the population actually votes.

So, more elections where the majority is wrong?

It's not even the majority, but yeah.

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme on both ends of the political spectrum.

This is not about the governments, it's about the EU parliament. Also in most countries it was only more extreme on the right side of the spectrum, if anything the left has taken kind of a beating.

Quote from: Crouton on May 27, 2019, 10:14:56 AM

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme on both ends of the political spectrum.

This is not about the governments, it's about the EU parliament. Also in most countries it was only more extreme on the right side of the spectrum, if anything the left has taken kind of a beating.

In fairness we kind of had that in the UK, but it was less about the left getting more extreme and more that no one wanted to vote for our big two parties because they've messed up everything, so our pre-existing third place party got more votes by default.

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 28, 2019, 05:26:42 AM

Quote from: Crouton on May 27, 2019, 10:14:56 AM

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme on both ends of the political spectrum.

This is not about the governments, it's about the EU parliament. Also in most countries it was only more extreme on the right side of the spectrum, if anything the left has taken kind of a beating.

In fairness we kind of had that in the UK, but it was less about the left getting more extreme and more that no one wanted to vote for our big two parties because they've messed up everything, so our pre-existing third place party got more votes by default.

Yes but your pre-existing third party was less "extreme" so...

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme

Our government is extremely incompetent, so yeah.

Quote from: Jane on May 28, 2019, 05:52:27 AM

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 28, 2019, 05:26:42 AM

Quote from: Crouton on May 27, 2019, 10:14:56 AM

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme on both ends of the political spectrum.

This is not about the governments, it's about the EU parliament. Also in most countries it was only more extreme on the right side of the spectrum, if anything the left has taken kind of a beating.

In fairness we kind of had that in the UK, but it was less about the left getting more extreme and more that no one wanted to vote for our big two parties because they've messed up everything, so our pre-existing third place party got more votes by default.

Yes but your pre-existing third party was less "extreme" so...

Well they are more left than our main left-leaning party, though definitely far from extreme.

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 28, 2019, 09:06:32 AM

Quote from: Jane on May 28, 2019, 05:52:27 AM

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 28, 2019, 05:26:42 AM

Quote from: Crouton on May 27, 2019, 10:14:56 AM

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme on both ends of the political spectrum.

This is not about the governments, it's about the EU parliament. Also in most countries it was only more extreme on the right side of the spectrum, if anything the left has taken kind of a beating.

In fairness we kind of had that in the UK, but it was less about the left getting more extreme and more that no one wanted to vote for our big two parties because they've messed up everything, so our pre-existing third place party got more votes by default.

Yes but your pre-existing third party was less "extreme" so...

Well they are more left than our main left-leaning party, though definitely far from extreme.

How are the libdems more left than Labour??

Quote from: Jane on May 29, 2019, 04:26:37 AM

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 28, 2019, 09:06:32 AM

Quote from: Jane on May 28, 2019, 05:52:27 AM

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 28, 2019, 05:26:42 AM

Quote from: Crouton on May 27, 2019, 10:14:56 AM

So if I'm understanding this, the most notable thing is that the governments are slightly more extreme on both ends of the political spectrum.

This is not about the governments, it's about the EU parliament. Also in most countries it was only more extreme on the right side of the spectrum, if anything the left has taken kind of a beating.

In fairness we kind of had that in the UK, but it was less about the left getting more extreme and more that no one wanted to vote for our big two parties because they've messed up everything, so our pre-existing third place party got more votes by default.

Yes but your pre-existing third party was less "extreme" so...

Well they are more left than our main left-leaning party, though definitely far from extreme.

How are the libdems more left than Labour??

Economically Labour's more to the left, socially Lib Dems are. I suppose it is technically up in the air depending on how you prioritise them, especially around now.

I don't really understand how libdems are more left in either sense, in any significant sense. In the context of discussing a party these things are determined by what they will do either in favour or against certain groups. I am not aware of any policies or even stances on anything significant of libdems that are more progressive than labour. Besides, when considering what's "more left" the economic criterion is generally more important. But maybe I've missed something.

I don't really understand how libdems are more left in either sense, in any significant sense. In the context of discussing a party these things are determined by what they will do either in favour or against certain groups. I am not aware of any policies or even stances on anything significant of libdems that are more progressive than labour. Besides, when considering what's "more left" the economic criterion is generally more important. But maybe I've missed something.

Probably comes down to definitions, it's not really a straight line. In my understanding, which admittedly isn't perfect, on social grounds Labour and Lib Dems are typically on the same side of the argument, but the Lib Dems typically both got there first and have a harder stance. Lib Dems tend to tackle things by trying to fix social concerns and having a knock-on effect to the economic on some grounds, while Labour prioritise going directly for economic issues, so it's less that Lib Dem economic goals aren't similar to Labour's but more their way of going about it is... arguably idealistic to be honest, and it's come back to bite them a few times, but yeah.

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 29, 2019, 08:29:14 AM

I don't really understand how libdems are more left in either sense, in any significant sense. In the context of discussing a party these things are determined by what they will do either in favour or against certain groups. I am not aware of any policies or even stances on anything significant of libdems that are more progressive than labour. Besides, when considering what's "more left" the economic criterion is generally more important. But maybe I've missed something.

Probably comes down to definitions, it's not really a straight line. In my understanding, which admittedly isn't perfect, on social grounds Labour and Lib Dems are typically on the same side of the argument, but the Lib Dems typically both got there first and have a harder stance. Lib Dems tend to tackle things by trying to fix social concerns and having a knock-on effect to the economic on some grounds, while Labour prioritise going directly for economic issues, so it's less that Lib Dem economic goals aren't similar to Labour's but more their way of going about it is... arguably idealistic to be honest, and it's come back to bite them a few times, but yeah.

Well I was going to argue with this but then I remembered Labour has been basically a liberal party too for years now and only recently maybe starting to go back to its roots so yeah. I liked some of the proposed policies of Scottish Labour I was recently reading about in an article, definitely unlike the course Labour was on especially after Tony Blair etc.

Hahaha. You think you have defeated Sargon because he only got like 3 votes? Now he has the libtards right where he wants them.