If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work

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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2019, 02:41:31 AM »
Now you have to apologize.
Why?
You are yet to publish any study. I don't need the rest of your lie to tell that is a lie.

You can compare these practical speeds
We aren't talking about speeds here. We are talking about accelerometers.
You already admit there is a downwards force.
Why can't you accept that that is what the accelerometer is measuring?
Why do you need to resort to BS about magic location data which the accelerometers don't have?

It is not published yet. It is published here 1 years and half ago, here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.msg2018831#msg2018831

Your not reading my workings are not making me liar but making you are an ignorant that do not read writings then blames them being none exist. It is clearly your mistake.

Your "study" is about city locations.

What's that got to do with accelerometers?

My study includes speeds of various types of aircrafts. Read it carefully.
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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2019, 03:13:22 AM »
Stop to make word salat. I have showed the link proves I have published it earlier. It is not published yet because it is published earlier. Making word salat and saying lie shamelessly can't help your case magically.
There is no word salat (I assume you mean salad) there.
You have not published a study.
The bunch of nonsense you have provided is not a study.
It a poorly collated collection of numbers with no origin of the data provided and plenty just rejected because it shows you are wrong.
That is not a study, and you just dumping it in a forum thread is not publishing.

Again, THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND!
We are discussing accelerometers.
This is one point we could have easily agreed upon.
You agree that there is a downwards force.
Even if you want to claim it isn't gravity, you still agree that some downwards force exists.

Why can't this force be what the accelerometer is detecting?
Why does the accelerometer need to use location data to fake the acceleration data?

Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2019, 12:28:24 PM »
Now you have to apologize.
Why?
You are yet to publish any study. I don't need the rest of your lie to tell that is a lie.

You can compare these practical speeds
We aren't talking about speeds here. We are talking about accelerometers.
You already admit there is a downwards force.
Why can't you accept that that is what the accelerometer is measuring?
Why do you need to resort to BS about magic location data which the accelerometers don't have?

It is not published yet. It is published here 1 years and half ago, here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.msg2018831#msg2018831

Your not reading my workings are not making me liar but making you are an ignorant that do not read writings then blames them being none exist. It is clearly your mistake.

Your "study" is about city locations.

What's that got to do with accelerometers?

My study includes speeds of various types of aircrafts. Read it carefully.

Yes. What's that got to do with accelerometers?
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

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John Davis

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2019, 12:46:43 PM »
They work because acceleration exists and gravity does not.
You don't seem to accept the UA hypothesis so what acceleration?
Thank you for taking the time to put together your questions Dirk. I don't believe in UA but I'll answer as if I do, given what I know about it.
I believe that what we call gravitation is the acceleration due to preventing an object from following its geodesic in spacetime.
This is very similar to centripetal acceleration being due to preventing an object from following a straight line in space.

But I would not say that gravity does not exist, just that it's not directly caused by mass attracting mass.
You answered the question you asked me directly afterwards.

Of course UA is another solution, or anything that would cause acceleration. If an accelerometer is measuring acceleration, its likely something is accelerating. Whether this is due to some sort of pressure, an equivalence principle sorta UA situation, or space time is irrelevant.

It measures acceleration, not gravity. Nobody claims that things don't accelerate towards the ground, round or flat as the earth might be.
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rabinoz

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2019, 03:44:43 PM »

Of course UA is another solution, or anything that would cause acceleration. If an accelerometer is measuring acceleration, its likely something is accelerating. Whether this is due to some sort of pressure, an equivalence principle sorta UA situation, or space time spacetime is irrelevant.

It measures acceleration, not gravity. Nobody claims that things don't accelerate towards the ground, round or flat as the earth might be.
Most people just use the term gravity to describe the fact that unsupported objects accelerate (in space but not in spacetime) towards the ground but the dictionary meaning does describe it as mass appearing to attract mass.

But try to convince wise, with his gravity = "sky push idea" of that.

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sokarul

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2019, 04:15:15 PM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.
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faded mike

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2019, 09:32:42 PM »
Perhaps it's all radio.
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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2019, 01:01:38 AM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2019, 02:02:52 AM »
Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
Yes, they can feel the air pushing them upwards, trying to slow their fall.
(That is the entire basis of parachutes).

But at low speeds when air resistance isn't significant, that isn't felt.
Regardless, this still demonstrates that gravity is not the result of pressure pushing us down or the air pushing us down.

Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2019, 02:41:24 AM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.

Feeling the wind isn't feeling acceleration. You can stick you head out of a car window at 50mph and feel the wind, but the car is only doing a steady 50mph, it's not accelerating.

If you jump out of an aeroplane you accelerate to terminal velocity (~120mph for a human) and then air resistance stops any further acceleration. You feel one gee again.

If there was no air you would continue accelerating until you hit the ground. You wouldn't feel any acceleration as gravity is accelerating every part of your body equally.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

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sokarul

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2019, 03:33:45 AM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
Falling in air is not free fall.

Anyways, 

The vomit comet.

Do they look like they are under the same force as


No.
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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2019, 04:01:33 AM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
Falling in air is not free fall.

Anyways, 

The vomit comet.

Do they look like they are under the same force as


No.

Is falling in the air forced falling? What is forcing the object to down?
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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2019, 04:15:49 AM »
Is falling in the air forced falling? What is forcing the object to down?
No, it is resisted falling.
This is because the air is resisting you.
Free fall refers to when you are falling free, with no force other than gravity acting on you.
If the air is resisting your motion, it is not free fall. If something other than gravity is pulling you down, it is not free fall. If something is pulling you up (like a bungee cord) it is not free fall.

In free fall you don't feel motion or any force acting on your body other than the insignificant tidal forces you wouldn't feel anyway. It is what gave rise to Einstein's equivalence principle and why standing still on Earth with gravity feels the same as standing in an box (or the like) which is accelerating upwards away from any object of significant mass, which also gave rise to the UA idea of Earth accelerating upwards.

Now back to the topic.
You already admit there is a downwards force. The exact origin of that is irrelevant for the discussion of accelerometers (unless you wish to claim the body of the accelerometer should shield it from this force).
Why can't this downwards force be what the accelerometer is measuring?

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sokarul

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2019, 07:20:09 AM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
Falling in air is not free fall.

Anyways, 

The vomit comet.

Do they look like they are under the same force as


No.

Is falling in the air forced falling? What is forcing the object to down?
Current theory says there is no force. Bent space-time makes it seem as if objects are accelerating when really the object is just following space-time.
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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2019, 08:02:21 AM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
Falling in air is not free fall.

Anyways, 

The vomit comet.

Do they look like they are under the same force as


No.

Is falling in the air forced falling? What is forcing the object to down?
Current theory says there is no force. Bent space-time makes it seem as if objects are accelerating when really the object is just following space-time.

You are saying its being theory. We do not have to accept every kind of theories, but laws.
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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2019, 10:30:31 AM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
Falling in air is not free fall.

Anyways, 

The vomit comet.

Do they look like they are under the same force as


No.

Is falling in the air forced falling? What is forcing the object to down?
Current theory says there is no force. Bent space-time makes it seem as if objects are accelerating when really the object is just following space-time.

You are saying its being theory. We do not have to accept every kind of theories, but laws.

You want to pass laws on fundamental forces, or you don't understand the scientific meaning of "theory"?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Also, as an aside, the guy driving the Lamborghini in the video is a dick.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2019, 12:38:01 PM »
Objects in free fall feel no acceleration. This is why we know gravity isnít from pressure.

Wrong. They are accelerating related the earth. You feel the wind. According to your logic, nothing feel acceleration because it is stationary related to itself.
Falling in air is not free fall.

Anyways, 

The vomit comet.

Do they look like they are under the same force as


No.

Is falling in the air forced falling? What is forcing the object to down?
Current theory says there is no force. Bent space-time makes it seem as if objects are accelerating when really the object is just following space-time.

You are saying its being theory. We do not have to accept every kind of theories, but laws.

You want to pass laws on fundamental forces, or you don't understand the scientific meaning of "theory"?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Also, as an aside, the guy driving the Lamborghini in the video is a dick.

Oh, wikipedia, lol. Thanks to teach us what is scientific theory from the most scientific website, wikipedia, lol.

You think it is something like scientific law, right?  ;D

Can you teach us what are differences of law and theory?
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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2019, 01:50:27 PM »
We do not have to accept every kind of theories, but laws.
So you mean things like Newton's universal law of gravitation?

It's a law, so I guess that means you have to accept it.

Can you teach us what are differences of law and theory?
It's quite simple, a law is a mathematical relationship which is typically a key part of a theory.
As an example, Newton's universal law of gravitation was part of his theory of gravity.
His theory described how gravity is a force and how mass is attracted to other mass and so on.
The law states that FG=G M m/d2.

Now, can you explain why you feel the need to appeal to location data rather than accept that whatever downwards force there is is what the accelerometer detects/measures?

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sokarul

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2019, 02:02:12 PM »

Oh, wikipedia, lol. Thanks to teach us what is scientific theory from the most scientific website, wikipedia, lol.

You think it is something like scientific law, right?  ;D

Can you teach us what are differences of law and theory?
Well you can't teach us. So if I was you I would read wikipedia.
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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2019, 02:58:28 PM »

Oh, wikipedia, lol. Thanks to teach us what is scientific theory from the most scientific website, wikipedia, lol.

You think it is something like scientific law, right?  ;D

Can you teach us what are differences of law and theory?
Well you can't teach us. So if I was you I would read wikipedia.

You are unable to learn is your own problem. wikipedia isn't a scientific source I simply deny it in this issue. Even you can write a definition on it.
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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2019, 03:00:25 PM »
We do not have to accept every kind of theories, but laws.
So you mean things like Newton's universal law of gravitation?

It is a theorical law does not mean the earth's having gravitation.
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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2019, 03:30:48 PM »
It is a theorical law does not mean the earth's having gravitation.
So when you said "we have to follow laws" you meant "we will just ignore anything that shows we are wrong"?

Now again, back to the topic.
You accept that there is a downwards force acting on objects.
Why can't this force be what the acceleratometer is measuring? Why do you need to appeal to location data?

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rabinoz

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2019, 03:32:47 PM »
You are unable to learn is your own problem. wikipedia isn't a scientific source I simply deny it in this issue. Even you can write a definition on it.
The topic is, "If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work?"

So please answer that question and not waste time with your attempts to side-step the real issue.

Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2019, 03:39:51 PM »

Accelerometers in phones work like how other navigation devices. your mobile phone is part of a network and its location is shared tens times per second. You can learn your speed, acceleration, position, altitude and other information instantly thanks to the continuously updated position information.

This doesn't make any sense. OP is talking about the accelerometers inside phones that enable them to determine which orientation they are in (vertical or horizontal).

If a device needed location/network data to know its orientation, then it wouldn't work when it wasn't on a network. But of course, it does still work. You can test this by putting your phone in airplane mode or moving to a location without signal - your phone's ability to know it's orientation will still function.

Digital spirit levels work with the same technology and they do not use "location data."

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Mikey T.

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2019, 08:08:06 PM »
What about stand alone accelerometers that are used in development boards like Ardiunos?  Or the rudimentary weight, string and protractor single axis ones we made in college physics 201 lab, that we used to measure a fairly close approximation of the force imparted on the accelerometers during a change in direction of acceleration?  I love some idiotic people who have no clue as to what an accelerometer is are trying to explain that they need location??? services to work.
brilliantly proving that all you have to do is sit back and watch the show and laugh while they languish on Mt. Stupid. 

   

Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2019, 08:24:50 PM »
It is not published yet. It is published here 1 years and half ago, here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.msg2018831#msg2018831
A link to a flat earth forum where you posted your "research" to create your rubbish map is not a study.  And it is not "published". It never will be published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Try submitting it to one.  Let us know what happens.



Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2019, 01:56:34 AM »
You are unable to learn is your own problem. wikipedia isn't a scientific source I simply deny it in this issue. Even you can write a definition on it.
The topic is, "If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work?"

So please answer that question and not waste time with your attempts to side-step the real issue.

I've had private conversations with wise about this. He simply doesn't understand the technology or the background behind these concepts, there is so much confusion in his head.

 
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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rabinoz

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2019, 02:27:12 AM »
You are unable to learn is your own problem. wikipedia isn't a scientific source I simply deny it in this issue. Even you can write a definition on it.
The topic is, "If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work?"

So please answer that question and not waste time with your attempts to side-step the real issue.

I've had private conversations with wise about this. He simply doesn't understand the technology or the background behind these concepts, there is so much confusion in his head.
Yet he claims to be Professor wise, Flat Earth Scientist. I believe that says a great deal about the state of "Flat-Earth Science".

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wise

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2019, 01:50:04 AM »
You are unable to learn is your own problem. wikipedia isn't a scientific source I simply deny it in this issue. Even you can write a definition on it.
The topic is, "If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work?"

So please answer that question and not waste time with your attempts to side-step the real issue.

I've had private conversations with wise about this. He simply doesn't understand the technology or the background behind these concepts, there is so much confusion in his head.
Yet he claims to be Professor wise, Flat Earth Scientist. I believe that says a great deal about the state of "Flat-Earth Science".

What is the relevance this issue with your BS? Your childish try that you are trying to discredit me doesn't make your argument magically stronger.

Either talk about the topic or talk in PM what you want. I am not a moderator but moderators are afraiding to warn you. Instead of warn you they are warning us together when they need to warn you.

Stop to use our moderation team like your slaves. They are human, not your slaves!
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rabinoz

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Re: If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2019, 03:55:25 AM »
You are unable to learn is your own problem. wikipedia isn't a scientific source I simply deny it in this issue. Even you can write a definition on it.
The topic is, "If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work?"

So please answer that question and not waste time with your attempts to side-step the real issue.

I've had private conversations with wise about this. He simply doesn't understand the technology or the background behind these concepts, there is so much confusion in his head.
Yet he claims to be Professor wise, Flat Earth Scientist. I believe that says a great deal about the state of "Flat-Earth Science".

Either talk about the topic or talk in PM what you want. I am not a moderator but moderators are afraiding to warn you.
Sorry to disappoint you but I get warned by the moderators just like anybody else and I've been banned too.

Quote from: wise
Instead of warn you they are warning us together when they need to warn you.
If you bother checking I've been asking to answer this "If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work" sensibly.
The answers you've given so far are completely ridiculous.

The "accelerometers in phones" cannot work as you describe below because the  "network" cannot possibly know the orientation of the phone!
Accelerometers in phones work like how other navigation devices. your mobile phone is part of a network and its location is shared tens times per second. You can learn your speed, acceleration, position, altitude and other information instantly thanks to the continuously updated position information.
And the accelerometers in phones have nothing in the slightest to do with aircraft velocities!
accelerometers  and velocimeters  are using location hence they are calculating datas wrongly. I published a study showing that there is a difference of at least 100 km / h between the theoretical and actual speeds of aircrafts. there you can read and learn.

So, Mr Wise, either answer the question "If gravity does not exist, how do accelerometers in phones work?" sensibly or admit that you have no idea.

And please don't drag "networks" of "aircraft velocities" into it because they are totally irrelevant.