Proof the Earth is round

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Proof the Earth is round
« on: May 19, 2019, 01:56:46 PM »
I can prove the Earth is round. I just need to ask two questions.

 1: if a ship goes below the horizon, you can zoom in, and bring it back, right?

2: Perspective Convergence is when two points "cross" in the distance, right?

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 02:35:31 PM »
OK. You've asked your two questions. Now continue and prove the earth is round. (This is going to be fun!)

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2019, 02:52:14 PM »
I have asked my two questions. Do you have answers?

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boydster

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2019, 06:06:47 PM »
I have asked my two questions. Do you have answers?

Is your thread title a lie, or are you here to prove something? If you are here to prove something, please proceed. If you are here to ask questions, there is a separate board for that.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2019, 09:15:20 PM »
I am here to prove a point. However, I am waiting for my answers. They are very, very simple.

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JackBlack

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2019, 11:37:33 PM »
I am here to prove a point. However, I am waiting for my answers. They are very, very simple.
If your proof needs people to answer questions, they aren't good proofs.

But if you really need them answered:
No.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 12:42:05 AM »
I have asked my two questions. Do you have answers?

You stated "I can prove the Earth is round. I just need to ask two questions."

You asked your two questions.

Did you perhaps instead intend "I can prove the Earth is round. I just need to you to provide answers to two questions."?

You do see the difference, right?

(That's a rhetorical question. I don't need you to provide the answer.)

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 07:18:27 AM »
I am here to prove a point. However, I am waiting for my answers. They are very, very simple.
If your proof needs people to answer questions, they aren't good proofs.

But if you really need them answered:
No.

No to, both?
I have asked my two questions. Do you have answers?

You stated "I can prove the Earth is round. I just need to ask two questions."

You asked your two questions.

Did you perhaps instead intend "I can prove the Earth is round. I just need to you to provide answers to two questions."?

You do see the difference, right?

(That's a rhetorical question. I don't need you to provide the answer.)

Not really. The answers are my proof. Really, any answer can prove it. Yes, no, or none. All prove me right. So, which is it friend? Yes, no, or do you not have an answer? To make it a bit clearer: an answer is important, which answer you choose, is not.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 07:39:29 AM »
Here are my flat earth answers :
1. The ship cannot go below the horizon, because the earth is flat.
2. How can two points cross, they are by definition just points.

Do I win a prize?


No, but I will give you points for trying. My second question was a direct quote from a Flat Earther by the by.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 07:40:28 AM »
Right. Well before this goes too far, I think I'll go ahead from here:

1: yes
2: yes

Well, taking both of these together, then it would be very simple, when the sun is on the other side of the disk, to simply zoom in on it and see it. After all, if you can do it with a ship on the horizon at sea level, from sea level, then it should be very easy to do with the sun. A flat plain is a flat plain after all. And seeing as no one has done that, it must mean you can't? In fact. Not once have I ever even heard a Flat Earther mention being able to do it.

1:no
2:no

Then, the Earth is round.

1:yes
2:no
Then you have it half right. Two parallel lines will never actually converge, but this also means you should be able to bring the sun back into focus

1:no
2:yes
Then the sun has to actually dip below the horizon, meaning the flat plain is anything but, leaving us a round earth, and that moment when "two parallel line converge" is the sun going below the horizon.

No answer for either
With no input from the community, perhaps they have no answer. If they have none, the next group who does are the Globalists, meaning the Earth must be round.


Right. There you go. Theres my proof. No matter what, a round earth has to be the answer. If it wasn't, then a picture of the sun over Japan, from New York, shouldn't be any type of issue. i would even accept a sun over London, from New York. No mountains or anything in the way.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 09:40:32 AM »
Two days and still now counter? Let me guess "We won't argue against such nonsense." Oh that's fine. Really I'm only replying to keep this thread from disappearing.

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boydster

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 12:25:00 PM »
By your own admission, your questions don't actually allow you to distinguish between either outcome. It's about as valid as those "proofs" that 1=0 using division by zero as a "proof."

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2019, 04:25:51 PM »
Again . Your argument is weak.
"If a ship goes below the horizon" : You are stating the earth is a globe.
The second question doesn't even make sense ;  You ask about "two points", you probably mean to lines.

I am not a flatard, but I believe one of the reasons the whole flat earth movement persists is they face a lot of very weak arguments like yours.
Too often in the discussions you will see too many people trying to have their say and the flat earthers will cherry pick the weak or often incorrect responses to reply to. This allows them to stay in the debate(for want of a better word) and appear to have the upper hand.

I said points, this is true. I did it on purpose. I quoted several Flat Earthers on YouTube to see the reaction. In fact, the second question isn't that needed to prove my point. No, I simply added it to see how people would respond. As for the first, I think it's fairly sound. Even Flat Earthers say the ship appears to go below the horizon, but it actually isn't. That is the basis for my argument. If you can bring a ship back into focus, the sun should be no issue.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2019, 04:35:13 PM »
By your own admission, your questions don't actually allow you to distinguish between either outcome. It's about as valid as those "proofs" that 1=0 using division by zero as a "proof."

No, not exactly. If you read it, there is actually a fool proof way to show the Earth is flat. However, seeing as that proof is nowhere to be found, then there is only one conclusion: the Earth is round. When there are two possibilities, and one cannot be proved, that leaves one. Now, the Flat Earthers show proof. Okay, Round Earthers dispute it. Round Earthers show proof, Flat Earthers dispute it. Take a picture of the sun over London, from New York, say in the coast. You can't on a Round Earth. You can on a Flat Earth. If you can do it with a ship, then doing it with the sun should be no issue whatsoever. In fact, make it a video showing the time where you are in New York, and then zooming to the sun over London. That is even more concrete, is it not? Without that, well, we are left with all the other evidence. Seeing as the Round Earthers have a single unified theory that works, and Flat Earthers have everything from an infinite plain, to a dome, to a holographic moon running figure eights with the sun...

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2019, 09:01:24 PM »
@SirWulfe:

Your arguments are a series of logical fallacies. First, you ask a question that presumes a round Earth, when you begin "If a ship goes below the horizon..." Since there is no "below the horizon" on a flat Earth, your question is very much like the old joke question that asks "Have you quit beating your wife yet? Yes or No!"

Then you go on to quote some FEers from YouTube and you imply that they are the arbiters of flat-Earth theory. Flat Earth is one thing and one thing only: It is the viewpoint that says that the Earth is flat. There is no official spokesperson or arbiter. There is not just one FET, there are many. FET is not disproven just because you might catch one YouTuber in a mistake. Frankly, a lot of YouTubers are kind of wacky, and I wouldn't put much faith in them, and as far as I know, none of them represents FE as I (imperfectly) understand it. OTOH there are some really cute cat videos there, so YT is not all bad.

None of this is new. You might want to look around at the arguments that have already been made, to assist you in crafting original arguments.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2019, 10:15:43 PM »
@SirWulfe:

Your arguments are a series of logical fallacies. First, you ask a question that presumes a round Earth, when you begin "If a ship goes below the horizon..." Since there is no "below the horizon" on a flat Earth, your question is very much like the old joke question that asks "Have you quit beating your wife yet? Yes or No!"

Then you go on to quote some FEers from YouTube and you imply that they are the arbiters of flat-Earth theory. Flat Earth is one thing and one thing only: It is the viewpoint that says that the Earth is flat. There is no official spokesperson or arbiter. There is not just one FET, there are many. FET is not disproven just because you might catch one YouTuber in a mistake. Frankly, a lot of YouTubers are kind of wacky, and I wouldn't put much faith in them, and as far as I know, none of them represents FE as I (imperfectly) understand it. OTOH there are some really cute cat videos there, so YT is not all bad.

None of this is new. You might want to look around at the arguments that have already been made, to assist you in crafting original arguments.

When I say below the horizon, I'm actually quoting FE, who use that as part of their argument. "You see a ship go below the horizon, but when you zoom in, you bring it back over again. Means it doesn't go below." As for the rest, believe it or not, I read the comments made by Flat Earthers. Right here, on this website. So many view so many different things, such as what I've given above. Then again, this is all irrelevant.

I will say this again: Prove the Earth is flat, by taking a picture of the sun from NY, while it is over London. So far, I'm getting alot of "Well your arguments weak. Heres why..." No. No it isn't. The task is simple. You can do it with a boat, there is no reason you can't do it with the sun.

Lastly, you do realise, you yourself just proved me right? Not sure if you caught that...

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Zaphod

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2019, 10:48:20 PM »


I will say this again: Prove the Earth is flat, by taking a picture of the sun from NY, while it is over London. So far, I'm getting alot of "Well your arguments weak.


So if the sun is "over London" it must be 12 noon, which would make it 7am in New York, which is well past sunrise in the summer.

Your argument is definitely weak!

You haven't really thought this through have you?

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 11:21:33 PM »


I will say this again: Prove the Earth is flat, by taking a picture of the sun from NY, while it is over London. So far, I'm getting alot of "Well your arguments weak.


So if the sun is "over London" it must be 12 noon, which would make it 7am in New York, which is well past sunrise in the summer.

Your argument is definitely weak!

You haven't really thought this through have you?

I have. You clearly didn't read what i put. London is my second option. My first is over Japan. So, since you don't like London, and the one which you would have had an easier time proving me wrong, I might add, we'll go with Japan. Tokyo, from NY City. Shouldn't be too hard either. Flat is flat after all. So. Where is my picture of the sun over Tokyo?

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Zaphod

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2019, 12:23:07 AM »
You clearly didn't read what i put.

I bloody well did because you said..

Quote
i would even accept a sun over London

You're really going to have to be more thorough with your arguments if you want FEs to respond to you here.

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe the earth to be flat anymore than I believe that you have more than half a brain.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 12:26:36 AM by Zaphod »

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2019, 02:19:54 AM »
You clearly didn't read what i put.

I bloody well did because you said..

Quote
i would even accept a sun over London

You're really going to have to be more thorough with your arguments if you want FEs to respond to you here.

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe the earth to be flat anymore than I believe that you have more than half a brain.

Yeap. "I would even accept." There was more to that. But you're right. That was a bit silly to suggest. So, I would like a picture of the sun over Tokyo, from NY. Its a very simple request. I never have understood why someone needs to use alot of typing to get a point across. It's a simple test. Now, if the Flat Earthers can't do it, I think that is fair evidence in my favour. If you can do it with a camera and a ship, surely something as large and bright as the sun shouldn't be an issue? Right?

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2019, 05:24:47 AM »
Hi Wulfe,

Thread title would be better if just something like “why flat earth perspective argument is nonsense”

I don’t think you’ll find any defenders of all that here though. The few genuine flat earthers round here don’t generally seem to like getting into conversations that try pin down how it’s all supposed to work anyway, with a couple exceptions.

The best you can usually expect on bringing up any specific flat earth argument is:
“Why do you assume we think that?”
“This has all been covered before. Search the website”

Closely followed by:

“Why haven’t so called scientists worked out a unified theory of quantum gravity?  They don’t even know what gravity is!”

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2019, 07:40:11 AM »
Hi Wulfe,

Thread title would be better if just something like “why flat earth perspective argument is nonsense”

I don’t think you’ll find any defenders of all that here though. The few genuine flat earthers round here don’t generally seem to like getting into conversations that try pin down how it’s all supposed to work anyway, with a couple exceptions.

The best you can usually expect on bringing up any specific flat earth argument is:
“Why do you assume we think that?”
“This has all been covered before. Search the website”

Closely followed by:

“Why haven’t so called scientists worked out a unified theory of quantum gravity?  They don’t even know what gravity is!”

I know. If a Flat Earther was to ask me how the Heliocentric model works, and pin me down to it, I'd be able to tell them, as any Round Earther would. However, the opposite isn't true. A Flat Earther doesn't like to get pinned down, and those that do, can vary widely from one to the next, on how it all works. As for the title, if what I've asked can't be done, that has to prove a Round Earth. In all my time, I've never once seen anyone give any reason, other than the camera, as to why you can't go.indefinitely, when zooming in on a ship. We have telescopes that will see millions of miles, pointing one at the horizon shouldn't be an issue. Thanks for the advice none the less friend.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2019, 09:27:18 AM »
@SirWulfe:

Your arguments are a series of logical fallacies. First, you ask a question that presumes a round Earth, when you begin "If a ship goes below the horizon..." Since there is no "below the horizon" on a flat Earth, your question is very much like the old joke question that asks "Have you quit beating your wife yet? Yes or No!"

Then you go on to quote some FEers from YouTube and you imply that they are the arbiters of flat-Earth theory. Flat Earth is one thing and one thing only: It is the viewpoint that says that the Earth is flat. There is no official spokesperson or arbiter. There is not just one FET, there are many. FET is not disproven just because you might catch one YouTuber in a mistake. Frankly, a lot of YouTubers are kind of wacky, and I wouldn't put much faith in them, and as far as I know, none of them represents FE as I (imperfectly) understand it. OTOH there are some really cute cat videos there, so YT is not all bad.

None of this is new. You might want to look around at the arguments that have already been made, to assist you in crafting original arguments.

When I say below the horizon, I'm actually quoting FE, who use that as part of their argument. "You see a ship go below the horizon, but when you zoom in, you bring it back over again. Means it doesn't go below." As for the rest, believe it or not, I read the comments made by Flat Earthers. Right here, on this website. So many view so many different things, such as what I've given above. Then again, this is all irrelevant.

I will say this again: Prove the Earth is flat, by taking a picture of the sun from NY, while it is over London. So far, I'm getting alot of "Well your arguments weak. Heres why..." No. No it isn't. The task is simple. You can do it with a boat, there is no reason you can't do it with the sun.

Lastly, you do realise, you yourself just proved me right? Not sure if you caught that...

Again, you create a straw man by claiming "I'm actually quoting FE, who use that as part of their argument," as if there was someone who represents all of Flat Earth the way the Pope represents the Catholic Church.

Then you end with the claim that I've proved you right. Sounds a lot like when children say, "I'm right and you're wrong," without further explanation.

... If a Flat Earther was to ask me how the Heliocentric model works, and pin me down to it, I'd be able to tell them, as any Round Earther would. ...

Do you seriously think you could explain General Relativity, complete with the mathematical basis of it? Or even Newtonian physics with all the math that underlies it? I strongly doubt it. Sure you could say "The Sun is the center of the solar system and the Earth goes around it..." Maybe you could even sing the Monty Python universe song. But if you had enough education in physics to understand the tensor calculus that underlies Relativity you would not be making arguments here that are so weak that even the round-Earthers are rejecting them. And if you were capable of explaining the mathematics of Relativity, not one in a thousand random people would understand the explanation, whether they believed the Earth was round or flat.

Neither FET nor RET is easy to explain, beyond "The Earth is roughly flat" or "The Earth is approximately spherical."

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JackBlack

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2019, 01:57:56 PM »
Neither FET nor RET is easy to explain, beyond "The Earth is roughly flat" or "The Earth is approximately spherical."
No, you can go a lot further, at least with round Earth.
For example:
The sun appears to set because it's relative position puts Earth itself in the way.
Objects going over the horizon disappear from the bottom up because of Earth obstructing the view.
The moon's phases are based upon the moon being illuminated by the sun and its relative positioning resulting in us seeing a different amount of lit/unlit.
Day and night is caused by the rotation of Earth with the sun illuminating roughly half of Earth.
The seasons are caused by Earth's axial tilt, combined with its orbit, making the sun appear to trace a path on the celestial sphere.
The different apparent position of celestial objects is primarily due to the different orientation of Earth. For example, Polaris, situated roughly above the north pole, is visible at an angle of elevation equal to your latitude, and is not visible significantly below the equator as Earth gets in the way (taking the latitude here to be negative).
There are 2 celestial poles because the axis of rotation of Earth goes through the celestial sphere at 2 points. These are always 180 degrees apart because they are 2 points on a straight line they are so far from Earth they may as well be infinitely far away.
People fall to Earth, and the planets all orbit for the same reason of gravity with masses being attracted to other masses. We fall to Earth because it is the most significant mass near us, and all the planets orbit the sun because it is the most significant mass near them.
Photos from space show Earth is round because Earth is round.
Earth can be circumnavigated in any direction because Earth is round.

And so on.

There is plenty that can easily be explained for a RE.
None of that applies for a FE.
FE needs numerous contradictory models to even begin to explain it and plenty of their so called "explanations" will contradict the "evidence" they provide to support a FE.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2019, 03:32:53 PM »
Mag sounds like dutchy

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robintex

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2019, 04:16:15 PM »
It seems your two questions are more like.
Re: Proof the Earth isn't flat.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2019, 11:25:31 AM »
Neither FET nor RET is easy to explain, beyond "The Earth is roughly flat" or "The Earth is approximately spherical."
No, you can go a lot further, at least with round Earth.
For example:
The sun appears to set because it's relative position puts Earth itself in the way.
Objects going over the horizon disappear from the bottom up because of Earth obstructing the view.
The moon's phases are based upon the moon being illuminated by the sun and its relative positioning resulting in us seeing a different amount of lit/unlit.
Day and night is caused by the rotation of Earth with the sun illuminating roughly half of Earth.
The seasons are caused by Earth's axial tilt, combined with its orbit, making the sun appear to trace a path on the celestial sphere.
The different apparent position of celestial objects is primarily due to the different orientation of Earth. For example, Polaris, situated roughly above the north pole, is visible at an angle of elevation equal to your latitude, and is not visible significantly below the equator as Earth gets in the way (taking the latitude here to be negative).
There are 2 celestial poles because the axis of rotation of Earth goes through the celestial sphere at 2 points. These are always 180 degrees apart because they are 2 points on a straight line they are so far from Earth they may as well be infinitely far away.
People fall to Earth, and the planets all orbit for the same reason of gravity with masses being attracted to other masses. We fall to Earth because it is the most significant mass near us, and all the planets orbit the sun because it is the most significant mass near them.
Photos from space show Earth is round because Earth is round.
Earth can be circumnavigated in any direction because Earth is round.

And so on.

There is plenty that can easily be explained for a RE.
None of that applies for a FE.
FE needs numerous contradictory models to even begin to explain it and plenty of their so called "explanations" will contradict the "evidence" they provide to support a FE.

^ This. Thanks Jack! I couldn't have said it better.

Again though, for the FErs: I want a picture of the sun over Tokyo, while it is night in NY, from NY. On a flat earth, this is possible. On a round earth, it is not.

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rabinoz

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2019, 03:31:51 PM »
Mag sounds like dutchy
Not really.
magellanclavichord is quite polite and doesn't post ridiculous things like this:
  • And i have answered you that i am a default flatearther, because i dismiss all claims derived from hypothetical musings that fall apart the moment you zoom in....
    Starting with the superiour eyesight of the ancient Greeks that concluded that ships sunk below an imaginary bulge.
  • NASA is just a name..is it ?
    The Apollo program is begging for answers.
    Apollo God of the Sun (heliocentric model)
    The rays of light that radiate from Apollo's head symbolize that he is the god of the sun. According to the Greek myth, each morning Apollo rides a golden flaming chariot across the sky bringing daylight to the world.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    The NASA logo of the vector image is a representation of the serpent's forked tongue despite what they claim to the general public.
    What has Wernher von Braun the war criminal in charge of Apollo got to say on the matter ?
    “It [the rocket] will free man from his remaining chains, the chains of gravity which still tie him to this planet. It will open to him the gates of heaven.”

    So we have an ancient Greek sun god, snake tongue satanical symbolism and the head of NASA claiming that the rocket is our way out of our remaining earthly chains to finally concor the heavens.
    It is all over the bible to warn for this end times wickedness and agenda of the lawless generation.

    Of course this will be ridiculed, but there is more to come......

    Outlets like NdGT and Elon Musk are slowly prepairing the world for this ''other'' dimensions that our limited awareness cannot really comprehend.
    Our world is just an illusion, a hologram of a reality that lies underneath this 3D (+ time) shallow dimension.
    In fact reality could be a hologram, a game of super itelligent aliens, or even far more outlandish than that i want to write here and now....

    Bottom line,......they are slowly teaching a reality from scratch that no one has ever teached from the dawn of this world nor our own forefathers..
    It will lead to a total and massive alienation of reality as we know it to be for thousends of years.
    They can program whatever cosmic reality into our children's minds as long as they label it as ''based on true science''.
    I follow this discussion from the beginning of the string theory and what is offered right now is wicked and satanical.

    My children are addults, but i will surely urge them to be extremely critical towards this new reality when it will become part of every day education.

Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2019, 04:40:06 PM »
I meant in a sense where he is sceptical of the scientists.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Proof the Earth is round
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2019, 05:20:18 PM »
I meant in a sense where he is sceptical of the scientists.

I think that the scientific community is correct about most things. Global warming is real and man-made; vaccines are safe and effective and declining to get vaccinated is reckless in the extreme; the Earth is very roughly 4.5 billion years old, and the universe is very roughly 13.5 billion years old; Neil Armstrong and several others after him walked on the Moon; what we can see of the universe is about 28 billion parsecs across; all living things, including us, evolved from earlier forms, going back to the first cell, whose origin is yet to be unraveled; etc. I only think that the scientific community is mistaken on one point.

This is not to speak of individual scientists, some of whom hold outlying opinions, or of matters yet to be settled, as science is constantly learning, and consensus is not achieved overnight.

I actually agree with the scientific community far more than most other flat-Earthers. But we all (FEers) by definition disagree with the scientific consensus on the one point that united us: FET.