Global Warming to sort itself out

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Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2007, 06:15:48 PM »
dont know if this is where i should post this but what the hell? eh? i just wanna let you know that the earth has been warming for a couple hundred years, and, in history, it fluctuates quite often. i havent decided whether human activity catylizes these fluctuations

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GeoGuy

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2007, 06:29:29 PM »
Have you read the IPCC report? If not I suggest you do so now, or at the very least read through the "realclimate.org" or "A Few Things Ill Considered" Blogs.

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2007, 07:20:31 PM »
Most people will do the right thing if presented the oppertunity.

However the problem is the oppertunity doesn't present itself. I'd have to agree with Al Gore's idea that it would be best to make the right decisions cheaper instead of making the wrong decisions more expensive. Problem is the only people in the right place to do something usefull about it don't care.

I don't see us solving the problem any time soon for a number of reasons. Chief among them is that we have other problems right now that we are focusing on (War). As time progresses more and more major issues will crop up and we will be focusing on solving all of them individually and completely lose track of the big issue that is causing the little issues.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2007, 09:52:33 AM »
i hate al gore. I think he is a blood sucking politician that associates himself with issues to prop up his own failing political career. And if he really cared about global warming, he wouldn't of made a documentary about it as it turns off about 1/2 of America to the issue just because of him starring in it. with that all said. I think global warming is a large issue that should be dealt with seriously. Searching for cleaner alternatives to fossil fuels and reducing emissions is one way to start. But what is the promise that once these viable alternatives are found and developed, that people will give up their masculine gas-guzzling cars in favor of less-powered but more emission friendly cars? And what is the promise that backwards countries like china will use these more expensive alternatives to petroleum. They are the worst offenders when it comes to emissions(they still use leaded gasoline in some parts), yet they are held least accountable internationally. The US puts out something like 10-15% of all harmful emissions(roughly equivalent to it's land mass), yet it is treated as most guilty of it.
opinions need to change if people want to get serious about this. We need a culture change.

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beast

  • 2997
Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2007, 03:42:23 PM »
To be clear, Al Gore studied under the professor who first claimed that global warming was occurring, and I think if you actually watch the movie, you'll see that his concern for the issue is undoubtedly genuine.

Quote
And what is the promise that backwards countries like china will use these more expensive alternatives to petroleum. They are the worst offenders when it comes to emissions(they still use leaded gasoline in some parts), yet they are held least accountable internationally.



This is false.  China is the 80th largest producer of greenhouse gas emissions per person.  The USA is 5th and Australia is 8th.  In terms of total emissions, China is 2nd with about 3.5 billion tonnes per year, compared with the USA, which is first with 5.8 billion tonnes per year.  Fairly significant difference when you consider the populations of the two countries.  The average American produces 19.5 thousands tonnes of CO2 every year.  The Average Chinese person produces 2.7 thousand tonnes of CO2 every year.

source

US cars cannot be sold in China because they do not meet the environmental standards for CO2 emissions set by China.  
source

Lead in fuel plays no part in contributing to greenhouse gas emissions by the way.

At this stage China is one of the leading countries in addressing global warming and environmental problems.  It is obviously a country with a long way to go, but at least it's making a genuine effort.

source
source2

Quote
China's government plans for renewable energy generation to meet 15% of the country's growing energy needs by 2020.

The target is in line with a new renewable energy law requiring grid operators to purchase resources from renewable energy producers. The law, which came into effect in January, also offers financial incentives to foster renewable energy development, including discounted lending and a range of tax breaks.

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2007, 04:12:09 PM »
Maybe I should consider moving to china... I've always liked far Eastern culture better :p

Another thing to consider for that graph of yours Beast is the number of trees being removed from the face of the earth since humanity showed up.

Trees help remove CO2 but we help remove Trees, I'd say that would also effect the CO2 levels in the atmosphere even if we WALKED everywhere.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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beast

  • 2997
Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2007, 04:17:09 PM »
I don't understand which graph you're talking about.

Also trees only help remove CO2 if they are new trees growing.  All the forests we have are approximately carbon neutral - that is to say that they do not put out or take in any amount of CO2 (well they do both to equal amounts to be most accurate).  Obviously removing trees and doing something to them that results in their carbon being oxidised is negative for the environment and land clearing is one of the largest unbalanced producers of CO2.

So to be clear - planting new trees where there are none reduces CO2.  Cutting down trees usually increases CO2.  Leaving forests as they are does not increase or decrease CO2.

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2007, 11:58:34 PM »
Quote from: "beast"


This is false.  China is the 80th largest producer of greenhouse gas emissions per person.  


as a scientific person I am willing to admit when i am wrong about something, and sir, you have caught me. I was using old and probably biased statistics.

But i'm not taking back what I said about Al Gore, 1/2 of america hates his guts. If he cared, he would just give his money to it and keep his trap shut.

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2007, 01:58:13 AM »
Quote from: "troubadour"
Quote from: "beast"


This is false.  China is the 80th largest producer of greenhouse gas emissions per person.  


as a scientific person I am willing to admit when i am wrong about something, and sir, you have caught me. I was using old and probably biased statistics.

But i'm not taking back what I said about Al Gore, 1/2 of america hates his guts. If he cared, he would just give his money to it and keep his trap shut.


I think you are confusing Al Gore with Bill Gates...

For one thing, Al Gore WOULD HAVE BEEN president if a certain someone hadn't rigged the elections.

Frankly I consider you to be among the stupidest people I have ever known. Your senseless logic and idiotic attempts to speak for the rest of America and ignorance is redicules.

GWB is more hated then Al Gore could even attmept to be. He could easily become president if he ran again (and he isn't going to run again because he feels he can better achieve his goals by convincing both the politicians and the general populace that there is an environmental issue).
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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DELETED

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2007, 01:52:22 AM »
DELETED

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2007, 07:34:37 AM »
Hey Beast? You seem to be following the GW thing, whatcha think of this? Found it on another website.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../11/warm11.xml


Quote
Cosmic rays blamed for global warming
By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:08am GMT 11/02/2007

Man-made climate change may be happening at a far slower rate than has been claimed, according to controversial new research.

Scientists say that cosmic rays from outer space play a far greater role in changing the Earth's climate than global warming experts previously thought.

In a book, to be published this week, they claim that fluctuations in the number of cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere directly alter the amount of cloud covering the planet.

High levels of cloud cover blankets the Earth and reflects radiated heat from the Sun back out into space, causing the planet to cool.
Henrik Svensmark, a weather scientist at the Danish National Space Centre who led the team behind the research, believes that the planet is experiencing a natural period of low cloud cover due to fewer cosmic rays entering the atmosphere.

This, he says, is responsible for much of the global warming we are experiencing.

He claims carbon dioxide emissions due to human activity are having a smaller impact on climate change than scientists think. If he is correct, it could mean that mankind has more time to reduce our effect on the climate.

The controversial theory comes one week after 2,500 scientists who make up the United Nations International Panel on Climate Change published their fourth report stating that human carbon dioxide emissions would cause temperature rises of up to 4.5 C by the end of the century.
Mr Svensmark claims that the calculations used to make this prediction largely overlooked the effect of cosmic rays on cloud cover and the temperature rise due to human activity may be much smaller.

He said: "It was long thought that clouds were caused by climate change, but now we see that climate change is driven by clouds.
"This has not been taken into account in the models used to work out the effect carbon dioxide has had.

"We may see CO2 is responsible for much less warming than we thought and if this is the case the predictions of warming due to human activity will need to be adjusted."

Mr Svensmark last week published the first experimental evidence from five years' research on the influence that cosmic rays have on cloud production in the Proceedings of the Royal Society Journal A: Mathematical, Physical and Engineering Sciences. This week he will also publish a fuller account of his work in a book entitled The Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change.

A team of more than 60 scientists from around the world are preparing to conduct a large-scale experiment using a particle accelerator in Geneva, Switzerland, to replicate the effect of cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere.
They hope this will prove whether this deep space radiation is responsible for changing cloud cover. If so, it could force climate scientists to re-evaluate their ideas about how global warming occurs.

Mr Svensmark's results show that the rays produce electrically charged particles when they hit the atmosphere. He said: "These particles attract water molecules from the air and cause them to clump together until they condense into clouds."

Mr Svensmark claims that the number of cosmic rays hitting the Earth changes with the magnetic activity around the Sun. During high periods of activity, fewer cosmic rays hit the Earth and so there are less clouds formed, resulting in warming.

Low activity causes more clouds and cools the Earth.
He said: "Evidence from ice cores show this happening long into the past. We have the highest solar activity we have had in at least 1,000 years.
"Humans are having an effect on climate change, but by not including the cosmic ray effect in models it means the results are inaccurate.The size of man's impact may be much smaller and so the man-made change is happening slower than predicted."

Some climate change experts have dismissed the claims as "tenuous".
Giles Harrison, a cloud specialist at Reading University said that he had carried out research on cosmic rays and their effect on clouds, but believed the impact on climate is much smaller than Mr Svensmark claims.
Mr Harrison said: "I have been looking at cloud data going back 50 years over the UK and found there was a small relationship with cosmic rays. It looks like it creates some additional variability in a natural climate system but this is small."

But there is a growing number of scientists who believe that the effect may be genuine.

Among them is Prof Bob Bingham, a clouds expert from the Central Laboratory of the Research Councils in Rutherford.

He said: "It is a relatively new idea, but there is some evidence there for this effect on clouds."
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2007, 10:47:48 AM »
The whole global warming thing might be a serious issue for humans whether or not humans are the cause or not. Although it probably won't affect me within my life time. But what I really want to know is, why won't winters in my city get warmer?  :cry: I mean seriously, -50 C occuring several times within the past couple of weeks? I live 3 hours from the US-Canadian border for crying out loud!

--Ticky
ave fun, you have been warned.

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2007, 08:36:37 PM »
Quote from: "Ticky"
The whole global warming thing might be a serious issue for humans whether or not humans are the cause or not. Although it probably won't affect me within my life time. But what I really want to know is, why won't winters in my city get warmer?  :cry: I mean seriously, -50 C occuring several times within the past couple of weeks? I live 3 hours from the US-Canadian border for crying out loud!

--Ticky


Earth has a built in air conditioner.

The warmer summers are the colder winters will get.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2007, 08:41:00 PM »
Quote from: "theonlydann"
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
Quote from: "Ticky"
The whole global warming thing might be a serious issue for humans whether or not humans are the cause or not. Although it probably won't affect me within my life time. But what I really want to know is, why won't winters in my city get warmer?  :cry: I mean seriously, -50 C occuring several times within the past couple of weeks? I live 3 hours from the US-Canadian border for crying out loud!

--Ticky


Earth has a built in air conditioner.

The warmer summers are the colder winters will get.


Does this mean spring and fall will be MORE or LESS delightful, cuz i really like fall, and fall this year was lame.


The changes experienced in those seasons will become more drastic I think. Meaning various plants and animals that can't adapt to the rapid change in weather will die faster.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2007, 04:20:52 PM »
Quote from: "RESOCR"
i believe it exists at the same time i believe it's overexaggerated. we certainly contribute to it, but methane, an molecule 8 times heavier and 20 times more effective a GW particle is 75% produced by cows.
The only gas which is 8 times less "heavy" than methane is hydrogen which, as far as I am aware, is not a significant concern to environmentalists. The percentage of methane being produced by cows may or may not be 75%, but even if it is, why do you think there are so many cows? Incidentally, I understand that global methane production appears to be slowing whereas the reverse is true of carbon dioxide. Furthermore, the effects of carbon dioxide are considerably longer-term than those of methane and this is another consideration to make when comparing the two gases.

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2007, 05:41:49 PM »
On the other hand, if no-one ate steak, the beef industry would go out of business. Hmm...

Personally I prefer the old adage: "Save a cow: eat a vegetarian". Sure, you'll be ruining the climate, but I find it's considerably more entertaining.

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beast

  • 2997
Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2007, 05:41:30 AM »
I'm sorry, but the talk about methane is ridiculous. 



As you can see, 18% of greenhouse gas emissions is methane.  Of which 40% comes from agriculture.  If we assume that all those emissions are from animals farting then that tells us that about 7.2% of global emissions come from animals farting.  Of course the real figure is even less than this.

With that in mind, I have an even better question.  Methane is CH4 - animals produce it.  We know that they do not make it come from nowhere, but also that they do not eat methane.  Therefore, where does it come from?  The obvious answer is that they must ingest other chemicals that get broken down and produce methane.  Hydrogen is obviously found everywhere, especially in water and carbon is found in organic substances.  Essentially a very basic explanation is that animals eat carbon (and drink hydrogen in water) and produce methane.  The carbon, of course, comes from plants.  Plants get their carbon from the atmosphere - they build themselves out of carbon based molecules.  So essentially while animals do produce greenhouse gas emissions, if you include their food into the process, they are carbon neutral - they produce carbon into the atmosphere, which is absorbed by the plants, eaten by the animal and the cycle continues.

The greenhouse effect is not happening because of animals farting, it is happening because we're putting carbon into the atmosphere that was locked away and would not have ever got into the atmosphere if it were not for human actions.  I'm talking especially about fossil fuels, deforestation and land clearing.  These actions all put carbon that was "locked up" into the atmosphere.  Those are the actions we need to worry about.

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midgard

  • 1300
Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2007, 06:18:27 AM »
Also, if you stopped letting all that hot air escape your mouth that would greatly help the problem too.

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beast

  • 2997
Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2007, 06:37:28 AM »
Also, if you stopped letting all that hot air escape your mouth that would greatly help the problem too.

What a fantastically childish response.  I am sure that everybody can see what your level of maturity is Migard.  Good work.

Instead of wasting your time with these juvenile moronic posts, why don't you attempt to put forward something constructive to the topic, if you're capable of that.

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midgard

  • 1300
Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2007, 07:13:43 AM »
Yes, I'm sure that most people do have an opinion about my maturiy level. I'm sure that people also have an opinion about how far up your own ass you are.

I've never once considered anything I've posted a waste of time.

theonlydann, very good point and good philosophy. Unfortunately I have to sound out the words as I type so I can't prevent bugs n such from flying in.

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midgard

  • 1300
Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2007, 07:23:17 AM »
Oh. And i dont think anything EITHER of you post is a waste of time... it warms my heart to see such a tight nit community of fellas... *hugs all around*

 :D

When I'm all alone in my parent's basement thinking the whole world is against me at least I can cling to that one positive thought: theonlydann loves me. I will have to conduct myself in such a way that whenever I am faced with a choice I should think, "What would theonlydann do?"

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midgard

  • 1300
Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2007, 07:46:13 AM »
What about a Dannolyte or a Dannostle? Maybe a Danniple?

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Rick_James

  • The Elder Ones
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Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2007, 03:07:49 PM »
dannologist? dannographer? dannphile? dannfan?

Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2007, 07:55:05 AM »
danndylion?
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2007, 07:23:22 PM »
danndylion?
... :-D WOOHOO! im a pretty pretty flower!!! wait... thats... a ... WEED! dammit. At least they make wine outta dandelions.

Yet another reason to not drink alcahol.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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Rick_James

  • The Elder Ones
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  • Rick <3 Gayer
Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2007, 07:28:47 PM »

Yet another reason to not drink alcahol.

There were others???  :o

Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2007, 07:37:32 PM »

Yet another reason to not drink alcahol.

There were others???  :o

For me yes. And no none of them include "It's a satanic fluid!"
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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GeoGuy

Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2007, 07:53:05 AM »
Aaaaaaanyway. Getting the thread back on topic.

Hey Beast? You seem to be following the GW thing, whatcha think of this? Found it on another website.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../11/warm11.xml

Here's an excellent article from RealClimate talking about cosmic rays.

Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2007, 08:43:10 AM »
Aaaaaaanyway. Getting the thread back on topic.

Hey Beast? You seem to be following the GW thing, whatcha think of this? Found it on another website.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../11/warm11.xml

Here's an excellent article from RealClimate talking about cosmic rays.

Yeah I read up a little bit on that. I have to say part of me hoped it was a cosmic ray thing :p Not because I am republican but because I'd rather see Global Warming get FIXXED and if we could develope a means to create CCN or find some other method for increasing cloud cover or reducing the global temperature we would be 1 step closer to being able to regulate the weather (basically conquer one of the last aspects of our lives that we can not control).
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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T-man

  • 88
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Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2007, 09:09:49 AM »
Im still reading up on it but scientists are working on nano sponge technology that soaks up the pollution in our oceans but they are having problems with it sucking up small plant life like algie and it is causing problems and if it were to get out into the oceans as it is it would ruin our ecosystem.......thoughts?
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...
The mole people were stalking me the other day. Thank god I didn't get killed.