Global Warming to sort itself out

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midgard

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« on: January 19, 2007, 03:36:55 AM »
DISCLAIMER: Okay, seeing as global warming is a serious topic I know there's going to be people out there who will be offended by this.  I would like it noted that this not meant in anyway to be offensive and am pleading ignorance of the ins and outs of global warming as my defence.


Here's my thoughts about global warming: who cares.

The way I see it at the moment we have hot summers that require air con and cold winters that require heaters.

If the average temperatures of the earth continue to rise then we can rest assured that we will no longer need heaters in winter - thus half the problem will be gone and the temperature will cool down again.*

*Cars, planes, ships, factories, power plants, etc. do not exist and therefore do not affect the earth's climate in any way, shape or form.

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cmdshft

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2007, 04:00:24 AM »
To be honest, i couldn't care less about the planet. I'm not going to be alive most likely when it really gets screwed up, although we are experiencing the effects already.

It's been a relatively warm winter, and this morning was our first snow of the winter. (Jersey)

Summer was nice too, so I really don't care. In fact, I hope the winters keep getting warmer. =)

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2007, 04:38:47 AM »
I suggest you guys watch An Inconvenient Truth and find out why it matters.
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midgard

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2007, 04:49:16 AM »
Quote from: "Knight"
I suggest you guys watch An Inconvenient Truth and find out why it matters.


I'd watch it but it's too inconvenient to go to the DVD store.

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Rick_James

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2007, 05:12:28 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"
Quote from: "Knight"
I suggest you guys watch An Inconvenient Truth and find out why it matters.


I'd watch it but it's too inconvenient to go to the DVD store.


and that's the truth.

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Masterchef

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2007, 06:36:34 AM »
It doesn't matter. If we destroy the Earth, we will die, and then a few million years later the Earth will recover. No matter what we do, Mother Nature will always have the last laugh.

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midgard

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2007, 06:40:58 AM »
She sounds like a BlTCH... sorry mum.

Re: Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2007, 12:20:52 PM »
Quote from: "midgard"
DISCLAIMER: Okay, seeing as global warming is a serious topic I know there's going to be people out there who will be offended by this.  I would like it noted that this not meant in anyway to be offensive and am pleading ignorance of the ins and outs of global warming as my defence.


Here's my thoughts about global warming: who cares.

The way I see it at the moment we have hot summers that require air con and cold winters that require heaters.

If the average temperatures of the earth continue to rise then we can rest assured that we will no longer need heaters in winter - thus half the problem will be gone and the temperature will cool down again.*

*Cars, planes, ships, factories, power plants, etc. do not exist and therefore do not affect the earth's climate in any way, shape or form.


Actually what will happen is a sudden drop in temperature that will cause another little ice age for 500 or so years just like the last one that ended with the industrial age's birth. Global temp will drop by about 8 degrees. While this proved an insanely tragic dilema for us as humans in the past, it won't be much more then an inconvenience now that we have electricity. The problem is certain costs will sky rocket (repairing power lines and heating bills and the like).

Global warming is what the planet is doing by itself, it's another natural cycle that the planet goes through.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2007, 01:03:47 PM »
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Global warming is what the planet is doing by itself, it's another natural cycle that the planet goes through.


A lot of people like to believe that humans don't have any real effect on the earth, and they make this very claim.  However, the scientific consensus is that humans are ruining the earth's environment.
ooyakasha!

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2007, 01:32:28 PM »
Quote from: "Knight"
Quote
Global warming is what the planet is doing by itself, it's another natural cycle that the planet goes through.


A lot of people like to believe that humans don't have any real effect on the earth, and they make this very claim.  However, the scientific consensus is that humans are ruining the earth's environment.


actually science is fairly evenly split, and it's the minority that thinks we'll see drastic change in the next ten years

the average temperature for the world in the past 50 years has risen one degree Celsius.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

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dysfunction

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2007, 01:41:30 PM »
Quote from: "RESOCR"
actually science is fairly evenly split


Actually it is the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community that global warming is human-caused. We have methods of determining climate patterns over the last several hundred thousand years, and the current trend is very different. Practically the only dissent comes from those with ties to neoconservatism, religious fundamentalism, or the energy industry, and that dissent totals a small minority of scientists.

Quote
and it's the minority that thinks we'll see drastic change in the next ten years


Yes, but the majority of scientists are convinced we'll see drastic change in 50 years.

Quote
the average temperature for the world in the past 50 years has risen one degree Celsius.


That's a whole hell of a lot.
the cake is a lie

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2007, 01:43:57 PM »
Quote from: "dysfunction"
Quote from: "RESOCR"
actually science is fairly evenly split


Actually it is the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community that global warming is human-caused. We have methods of determining climate patterns over the last several hundred thousand years, and the current trend is very different. Practically the only dissent comes from those with ties to neoconservatism, religious fundamentalism, or the energy industry, and that dissent totals a small minority of scientists.

Quote
and it's the minority that thinks we'll see drastic change in the next ten years


Yes, but the majority of scientists are convinced we'll see drastic change in 50 years.

Quote
the average temperature for the world in the past 50 years has risen one degree Celsius.


That's a whole hell of a lot.



considering it was something like 8 degrees were required, it really isnt

wow, were an entire 0.125 of the way to a mini iceage! wooooo!
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

BOGWarrior89

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2007, 01:46:04 PM »
Quote from: "dysfunction"
Quote from: "RESOCR"
actually science is fairly evenly split


Actually it is the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community that global warming is human-caused.


And all those times that the Earth randomly switched from icehouse to greenhouse and vice versa were caused by humans too?

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 02:54:20 PM »
An Inconvenient Truth. Watch it.
ooyakasha!

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 05:36:08 PM »
Quote from: "Knight"
An Inconvenient Truth. Watch it.


An Inconvenient Truth. made by a political hypocritical dumbass.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

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GeoGuy

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2007, 05:37:54 PM »
Quote from: "RESOCR"

An Inconvenient Truth. made by a political hypocritical dumbass.

I take it you're a global warming "skeptic" then?

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2007, 05:44:28 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Quote from: "RESOCR"

An Inconvenient Truth. made by a political hypocritical dumbass.

I take it you're a global warming "skeptic" then?


i believe it exists at the same time i believe it's overexaggerated. we certainly contribute to it, but methane, an molecule 8 times heavier and 20 times more effective a GW particle is 75% produced by cows.

they too have an impact that at least comes very close to the net result of what we do. This is part of a cycle of nature not directly disturbed by humans. Nature is doing at least 2/3 as much as we are doing, while countering our own effects.

neither side has lent enough evidence to their suspicions to bend me fully to on side or another.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2007, 05:45:59 PM »
PS: Al Gore is a hypocritical douche. Most politicians are.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

*

Masterchef

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2007, 06:32:25 PM »
Quote from: "RESOCR"
...but methane, an molecule 8 times heavier and 20 times more effective a GW particle is 75% produced by cows...

So eat more steak people. :wink:

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2007, 07:21:04 PM »
Quote from: "Masterchief2219"
Quote from: "RESOCR"
...but methane, an molecule 8 times heavier and 20 times more effective a GW particle is 75% produced by cows...

So eat more steak people. :wink:

i dont know, when it comes to saving the environment, my food of choice is a bacon cheeseburger....
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

*

Masterchef

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2007, 07:23:20 PM »
Quote from: "RESOCR"
i dont know, when it comes to saving the environment, my food of choice is a bacon cheeseburger....

Bleh, I don't like bacon on my cheeseburgers. Actually, I prefer chicken over everything else. Are they contributing to the destruction of our planet by any chance?

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2007, 07:24:38 PM »
Quote from: "Masterchief2219"
Quote from: "RESOCR"
i dont know, when it comes to saving the environment, my food of choice is a bacon cheeseburger....

Bleh, I don't like bacon on my cheeseburgers. Actually, I prefer chicken over everything else. Are they contributing to the destruction of our planet by any chance?


not really, they just eat plants and make food for things that dont eat cows.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

*

Masterchef

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2007, 07:26:36 PM »
Oh well, I am going to eat more chicken just in case. What can I say, I just care about the environment. :lol:

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2007, 07:52:29 PM »
they should have 'enviromentally friendly' steaks. It uses only the best portion and turns the rest into mulch, so we get more plants converting more co2 into more oxygen....
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2007, 11:02:47 PM »
All we have to do is use a few Nuclear Weapons:
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003108.html
Which, although the article says will affect the temperature drastically, really wouldn’t:
http://adamant.typepad.com/seitz/2006/12/preherein_honor.html
It’s only really a 1.4°C decrease in temperature if we use some Nuclear Weapons; less if we use less!

We just need to calibrate it.

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BOGWarrior89

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2007, 02:10:11 AM »
Quote from: "Masterchief2219"
Quote from: "RESOCR"
...but methane, an molecule 8 times heavier and 20 times more effective a GW particle is 75% produced by cows...

So eat more steak people. :wink:


Which would result in more cows, producing more greenhouse gases, causing more global warming.

Way to correctly identify the problem, guys.

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2007, 02:49:55 AM »
We could mine Ice from Hailey's Comet and drop a few dozen cubes into the Pacific Ocean to help correct the problem...

No really, 1 volcano produces more green house gases then all of humanity with a single explosion. Global Warming is a natural cycle. Over 500 years ago we had much the same effect, we didn't have cars then. They were growing grapes in Britain and that is pretty much impossible these days no? It will warm up to a point where it will be possible, everyone will be happy, winters will be less disasterous and then the temperature will drop globaly and we will experience annoying winters again.

Volcanos are the reason why the earth isn't completely covered in ice. Someone came up with a mathematical calculation that revealed that if the entire planet had suffered a world wide ice age (that is, everything frozen and covered in snow) it would never recover from it because snow, being white, reflects the majority of light and thus reflects heat off of it. It was major volcanic activity (which we are experiencing more often lately) that put a cloud of ash into the atmosphere and caused global warming on a more massive scale. We are talking an average temperature of over 100 degrees world wide.

Towards the end of the last little ice age, there was a winter that lasted a full year. The year without a spring, was caused by a large volcano spouting ash into the upper atmosphere and blocking the sun. It was the last winter of the little ice age.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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beast

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2007, 05:06:23 AM »
Quote from: "RESOCR"
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Quote from: "RESOCR"

An Inconvenient Truth. made by a political hypocritical dumbass.

I take it you're a global warming "skeptic" then?


i believe it exists at the same time i believe it's overexaggerated. we certainly contribute to it, but methane, an molecule 8 times heavier and 20 times more effective a GW particle is 75% produced by cows.

they too have an impact that at least comes very close to the net result of what we do. This is part of a cycle of nature not directly disturbed by humans. Nature is doing at least 2/3 as much as we are doing, while countering our own effects.

neither side has lent enough evidence to their suspicions to bend me fully to on side or another.


While part of what you say is true, you're actually wrong.

You see the worlds carbon cycle is a little like a sea saw.  The carbon levels in the atmosphere are always changing by small amounts.  Essentially the plants turn carbon based gasses into oxygen and solid carbon, which they are made from and the animals turn oxygen into carbon based gasses, using the carbon from what they eat.  Before humanity, this process was fairly well balanced, while you saw small changes over long periods of time, things were stable from the time perspective that we look at things.  So this claim that "Nature is doing at least 2/3 as much as we're doing" - is actually completely false.  "Nature's" total emissions is actually about 0.  Yes lots of animals produce carbon gasses, as indeed do lots of plants when they die, but all that is carbon is also removed from the atmosphere by nature.  If nature wasn't balanced we would have seen a slow build up or loss until life stopped being able to survive.  We haven't seen that.

Now the science behind what creates global warming is very simple.  There is a set amount of carbon in the world.  It is locked up in lots of different places.  One of the refined sources of carbon is fossil fuels - which are essentially fossilised plants.  This is carbon that would never get into the atmosphere.  It's locked away in the ground.  By burning it, we're releasing extra carbon, which is not part of the carbon cycle into the atmosphere.  That's why you see graphs like this.



Or even better - this one of carbon levels in the atmosphere for the last 400,000 years:




You can clearly see, and surely understand, that we're putting more carbon into the atmosphere than nature would have.  This is, in fact, an undisputed fact.  There is no scientific evidence that opposes this and it is accepted by all scientists.

Of course the question of "does this make the Earth hotter" is a very easy one to answer - every single experiement that has been carried out seeing if higher carbon levels in the atmosphere results in higher temperatures has found that it does.  You can even do this experiement yourself.  Make two airtight containers and put a thermometer in both.  Seal one up with the normal atmosphere.  With the other, burn some paper, or some other plant based material and collect as much of the smoke in the container.  The smoke that you can see is actually not a gas but the carbon gasses will be with it.  Put both containers in a cool spot (like a fridge) to make sure that the temperatures from the fire don't have an effect.  Put them outside and record the change in temperature in each container.  I can guarantee that the container with higher carbon levels will be warmer.  Scientists have repeated this experiement in much more controlled environments and have found it to be a fact that higher carbon in the atmosphere means higher temperatures.

So as you can see, there is no doubt that global warming is happening and that we are the cause of it.

Now it is a good question, to ask why we should worry.  The nihilist view put forward in this topic is a strong one, except it ignores a few crucial areas.

1.  It is not predicted that humanity will die out, but rather that we will face a depression worse than the 1930s great depression.  That global warming will cost about $9,000,000,000,000 USD within this century.  Already in many countries in the world we are experiencing serious problems.  The drought in Australia was predicted by the Australian Climate Institute - an independent Government organisation of scientists trying to predict the causes of climate change.  Not only did they predict that this would be the worst drought in our history (and it is) but they also predicted that we would have droughts like this on a much more regular basis.  They also predicted that by 2006 we would experience a significant increase in extreme fire days - another prediction that turned out to be true.  What these predictions mean is that our lives are going to get a great deal harder.  Never mind about the future generations, we're the ones who are going to suffer.  The World Health Organisation has stated that they believe so far 150,000 people have died as a result of climate change (due to the increase in malaria)

2.  Loss of biodiversity.  It's been predicted by some of the worlds leading biodiversity scientists that by the end of the century one in five plants and animals will be extinct.  That's a dramatic loss and something that ultimately will have a serious effect on ourselves.  While some of you may not care about all the incredibilities of nature and the loss of never being able to see or study these life forms again, biodiversity is also a crucial part in the ecosystem.  When we're talking in terms of human generations, nature is essentially balanced.  Loss of biodiversity leads to that balance being put out - which leads to large population explosions of some animals, while extinctions of others.  Large population explosions are usually a bad thing because they lead to higher disease and they eat a lot of resources.  Essentially what we will see is more serious diseases and plagues that have serious effects on our food production.  Again, from a selfish point of view - this is going to make our lives harder to live.


There is also, of course, the question of moral obligations.  I won't go into that, because it's a philosophical question that doesn't even need to be answered.  The fact is that we are definitely causing climate change and that it is going to make our lives harder to live.  If you want your life to be harder, you could just go and sleep in a gutter, but to decide for us all that we should all live hard lives - that is clearly an unethical decision.  Allow us the ability to live in as good a life as we choose by not exacerbating the situation and if you want to live a life of suffering, make that choice for yourself.

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RESOCR

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Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2007, 09:30:55 AM »
on the second smaller graph, do you know what causes the drops after every peak? if the timeframe is correct, it was before 1000 years ago when the latest drop like that failed to occur.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

Global Warming to sort itself out
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2007, 10:42:52 AM »
Thank you beast.
ooyakasha!