moon landing

  • 38 Replies
  • 2470 Views
*

Mikey T.

  • 2419
Re: moon landing
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2019, 08:41:30 AM »
Most conspiracy theories are due to things like the Dunning Krueger effect.  It is not that the strongest supporters of those conspiracy theories are intentionally misleading others, it is because they do not truly understand the subject yet they honestly think they do.  Some people get stranded on that first peak of overconfidence when they believe that all counter arguments are coming from the conspiracy to mislead them.  They never allow themselves to consider that they are in fact wrong so they dismiss anything that does not fit their own misunderstanding.  The fun thing is that they honestly think the people who hold the opposing viewpoints are the ones dismissing their arguments for that same reasons. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
I honestly believe the moon landing conspiracy theory has some of strongest evidence for motives for the conspiracy there is, yet the rest of the evidence falls way short.  Yes, the motives for faking the moon landings are very plausible, yet the evidence that the landings actually happened is pretty overwhelming.  Yes they had a great reason (motive) to fake it if they couldn't actually do it, i.e. cold war, space race, bragging rights, etc.  But that motive also works for the U.S. spending the money, time, and expertise to actually get there also.  Just one of the many flies in the ointment was that at the time of the landings, the technology was not there to fake the videos that were made.  To this day, even with advanced CGI, we can't really effectively reproduce those videos without being able to spot the fakery.   

Re: moon landing
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2019, 10:30:17 AM »
An interesting addition to this particular thread is that all those who have written in support of the moon landings have given evidence to back up their belief while thise who have written in support of conspiracy theories have provided only "I don't believe the narrative" and "I heard that"

Like someone said early in this discussion, no one says you shouldn't question what you heard. But cherry picking what yiu accept as evidence, that's just lazy.

The actual problem here is that people who believe in FE have a lot to lose when they give up that belief:

- They feel special for knowing 'forbidden knowledge'
- They can share that feeling with likeminded people who sustain their feeling of being special
- They make honest friendships and form communities with people who think like they do

If they would accept even a tiny bit of doubt, not only do they lose the feeling of being special but they risk losing their community.

This is all completely human and understandable. I remember when I was a church going christian but my belief was diminishing. I did not so much mourn the loss of my faith but the fact that I was losing a very basic connection to my community.

I don't think FE people are complete whackjobs (well, not all of them). I think they are just very happy with their little world (whatever its shape) and don't want to lose that. And therefor any and all logic must be abandoned to keep the faith.

Nothing new under the sun (whatever its size).

If FE versus RE (or lunar hoaxers vs lunar landing) was about rational thought and fact, the debate would be over in seconds.

Omega, I haven't been on this forum for about a year, got bored with the same arguments, insults, denial.  So I popped my head in again to see how things were going, and not much has changed.  The insults go both ways, and I have been 'offended" (for a lack of a better word) by some RE's regarding their insults of religion.  I will be the first to admit religion is not any proof (or evidence) of the shape of the earth.  And as high and mighty as some people get, you cannot prove or disprove faith.  If you could, it would not be know as "faith". 

Anyways, I really appreciate your above quote, and this really gave me some insight that has not occurred to before, why people hold on so tightly to this belief.  The burden of proof belongs to the person objecting to accepted principles and theories (or facts). But, from what I see, most FE's think it should be the other way around.  I thought for a long time that the people here did not really believe in the FE, they were just practicing their debating skills.  However, debating requires a sense of logic, and very little logic is argued here. 

But knowing what you know, and how people just won't let go of their belief so they can still have their community, why do you persist?  Has any FE believer ever been persuaded on this website? 


?

frenat

  • 3546
Re: moon landing
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2019, 05:49:06 AM »
I heard their backpacks wouldn't fit through the door of the lander according to one persons research...

That would be interesting seeing as how there are pictures and video showing them going in and out.
This guy actually did measure it though (as opposed to others that just say it doesn't look right) and he found through actual measurement that the door is big enough.


*

Stash

  • 4857
Re: moon landing
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2019, 11:44:17 AM »
I heard their backpacks wouldn't fit through the door of the lander according to one persons research...

That would be interesting seeing as how there are pictures and video showing them going in and out.
This guy actually did measure it though (as opposed to others that just say it doesn't look right) and he found through actual measurement that the door is big enough.



This is exactly what most of us are getting at. I got into a discussion with an FEr once about the first American to EVA. Their contention was that it was fake because the footage showed him turning his head and they saw somewhere that the Gemini suit he wore had a "locking mechanism" between the helmet and suit. I thought that was a pretty compelling argument so did some poking around and sure enough I found what they had found. But I looked a little further and found the suit schematic that went on to say:

"The Clark suit was adapted to use the helmet designed by BF Goodrich, a removable fiberglass helmet which connected via a locking ring on the suit. The ring had rotating bearings, allowing the astronaut to turn his head from side to side."

Now if I had presented that to a Globe believer/Moon landing denier, they could easily say, "Oh, ok, well that make sense, that wasn't faked, but I still don't believe the moon landings were real..." They can do that, actually accept evidence, because the shape of the earth in not in contention. Images of a round earth or globe technology to get into space and be able to see a round earth doesn't matter. It's not a problem.

When I presented the evidence to the FEr they still couldn't accept it because they can't. It's not allowed. Accepting any part of anything to do with space is absolutely verboten as it immediately opens the door to and calls into question the underlying FE belief.

So an FEr is not a skeptic simply rejecting a 'narrative' based upon any evidence. They are rejecting any and all evidence b/c it's simply required to do so regardless of what is presented. Hence things like the suit size and the capsule door. An FEr sees something about that and runs, hands waving yelling, "See, I told you so..." without even a trace of examination. Then someone has to come along and do the measurements and show how it's fine. Then even presented with that it matters not.

The evidence does not matter because it can't matter.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

Re: moon landing
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2019, 01:28:39 PM »
Still in denial about something that happened fifty years ago!
In denial about the thousands of satellites that orbit the earth some of which can actually  be seen with a pair of binoculars!
In denial about the almost weekly rocket launches that are seen lifting off by the public and viewed by millions on line.
In denial about the hundreds of space missions that have taken place by a host of nations.
In denial about the Chinese landing their rover on the moon.
In denial about the Japanese mission that landed on a comet!
In denial about the Israeli private lander that crashed on the moon!
In denial about all the Mars Missions and landers that have been beaming back images and video for years.
In denial about weather satellites
In denial about GPS satellites
In denial about all the amazing images taken by Hubble and and all the other space missions.
In denial about all the amazing images taken by ground based observatories that are now even better than the Hubble ones.
In denial about the up and coming James Webb telescope.
In denial about private companies who will video or photograph areas of land from space
In denial about anything space related.

Thatís a hell of a lot of denial!

To summarise FE believers are in denial about everything and anything to do with space, the moon landings just being one of them. They sure are going to freak out when the Chinese surprise everyone by landing a man/woman on the moon in the next year or so. People like Sceptimatic will sure blow a fuse or three. I just wonder what story he andrhe other FE believers will have to dream up to claim itís all a fake!

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6054
Re: moon landing
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2019, 01:48:34 PM »
In denial about all the amazing images taken by Hubble and and all the other space missions.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1786946#msg1786946

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1787025#msg1787025

Unfortunately, the very best RE astronomers have cast a huge doubt on the images transmitted by Hubble:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2046355#msg2046355

« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 02:06:29 PM by sandokhan »

Re: moon landing
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2019, 02:20:10 PM »
In denial about all the amazing images taken by Hubble and and all the other space missions.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1786946#msg1786946

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1787025#msg1787025

Unfortunately, the very best RE astronomers have cast a huge doubt on the images transmitted by Hubble:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2046355#msg2046355


Words that your post prompts  pare, scrapping, barrel and bottom. Iíll let you rearrange them.

The best you can do is quote yourself and produce yet more red herrings.
Hubble was just one of many topics on the FE denial list.
Are you going to drum up some more spurious baseless posts so you can quote them in some future act of denial.
Face it chum as some one who denies history,  believes in perpetual motion machines and imagines he can see sub-quarks you do have a bit of a track record for believing in the ridiculous. The links you provide are just more examples that demonstrate how off beam your beliefs are!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 02:23:11 PM by Lonegranger »

*

Canary

  • 176
Re: moon landing
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2019, 02:45:53 PM »
In denial about all the amazing images taken by Hubble and and all the other space missions.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1786946#msg1786946

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1787025#msg1787025

Unfortunately, the very best RE astronomers have cast a huge doubt on the images transmitted by Hubble:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2046355#msg2046355
i think it would be better if you critique ML step by step and not with a lots of link each has a lots of links each has a lots of link etc!
that is because we don't have enough time to read them all.

Re: moon landing
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2019, 03:03:33 PM »
In denial about all the amazing images taken by Hubble and and all the other space missions.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1786946#msg1786946

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1787025#msg1787025

Unfortunately, the very best RE astronomers have cast a huge doubt on the images transmitted by Hubble:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2046355#msg2046355
i think it would be better if you critique ML step by step and not with a lots of link each has a lots of links each has a lots of link etc!
that is because we don't have enough time to read them all.

Concider yourself fortunate as that was, by far, one of Sandyís shorter and more concise posts.