RE-winning threads

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Torn Bishop

Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2007, 09:30:40 AM »
And that confirms my thought.

Shut up.
Actually silence is a good excercise you might want to try before TheEngineer does it for you... again.

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dantheman40k

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #121 on: October 25, 2007, 11:58:09 AM »
And that confirms my thought.

Shut up.
Actually silence is a good excercise you might want to try before TheEngineer does it for you... again.


I havent done anything wrong, youre the one tarding up the thread with your immature one liners. And I notice that you havent answered any of the linked threads.  ::)
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Mr. Ireland

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #122 on: October 25, 2007, 01:07:58 PM »
Why is this even in Q&C?  Hell, it doesn't even deserve Angry Ranting.  Complete Nonsense ftw!

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dantheman40k

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #123 on: October 26, 2007, 11:38:07 AM »
Why is this even in Q&C?  Hell, it doesn't even deserve Angry Ranting.  Complete Nonsense ftw!

Shut up.


http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17693.0
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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #124 on: October 26, 2007, 11:56:16 AM »
Why is this even in Q&C?  Hell, it doesn't even deserve Angry Ranting.  Complete Nonsense ftw!
/seconded
"Once again the apostles of science are found to lack the scientific credentials for their faith. This not an indictment of science; it only shows again that the choice of science over other forms of life is not a scientific choice."

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dantheman40k

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #125 on: October 27, 2007, 01:47:37 AM »
Why is this even in Q&C?  Hell, it doesn't even deserve Angry Ranting.  Complete Nonsense ftw!
/seconded

Shouldnt you be answering some questions, you flat earth retard?
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Torn Bishop

Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #126 on: October 27, 2007, 08:46:21 AM »
Why is this even in Q&C?  Hell, it doesn't even deserve Angry Ranting.  Complete Nonsense ftw!
/seconded

Shouldnt you be answering some questions, you flat earth retard?
Eager to find out the truth from a supposed retard, are you not?

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dantheman40k

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #127 on: October 28, 2007, 03:02:03 AM »
Why is this even in Q&C?  Hell, it doesn't even deserve Angry Ranting.  Complete Nonsense ftw!
/seconded

Shouldnt you be answering some questions, you flat earth retard?
Eager to find out the truth from a supposed retard, are you not?

Yes, could you answer some of the threads now?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #128 on: October 28, 2007, 03:03:30 AM »
Quote
Yes, could you answer some of the threads now?

What threads would those be? The ones that link to 404 errors?

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #129 on: October 28, 2007, 03:55:26 AM »
Yes, the ones that have mysteriously deleted themselves.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

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Loard Z

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #130 on: October 28, 2007, 05:28:46 AM »
LOL. I laugh at Tom Bishop. I disproved his theory with Pythagoras. Yet he trolls on.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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Lorcan

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #131 on: October 28, 2007, 02:09:03 PM »
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=16234.0

This epic thread, which got completely out of control, was concerned with the Universal Accelerator. It went through a lot of arguments, but some of them stood out. TheEngineer repeatedly misinterpreted the Equivalence Principle and proposed or implied that it could explain how the UA would allow for gravitational lensing, gravitational redshifting, and gravitational time dilation, all as observed on/from Earth. To explain how, in fact, it could not explain these things in the original context, I brought up the Pound-Rebka experiment, the Hafele-Keating experiment, Abell 2218, and the Shapiro Effect, each of which effectively crushes either the notions that the "gravity" we experience on Earth is merely the UA, or the less commonly held notions that gravitation just doesn't exist. Or they just simply crush the notion that the Equivalence Principle can play a role in these when assuming a Universal Accelerator.

For those who don't care to look through all 40 pages of it, you'll remember that the main points argued were that the Pound-Rebka experiment and the Hafele-Keating experiments could not work in a uniform gravitational field (which would be demonstrated by the Equivalence Principle when assuming an accelerating Earth). They work very well, within theoretical expectations, and can be repeated endlessly, giving the same results. They give results that are impossible outside of a non-uniform gravitational field.

The gravitational lensing observed from Abell 2218 requires gravitational fields of stars and other bodies in space, not any form of Universal Acceleration.

The Shapiro Effect also demonstrates known effects of gravitation in our own solar system, unexplained by any universal accelerator.

Lots of other good points were brought up in the thread, and you'll get to see some FE babbling at its most desperate.

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dantheman40k

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #132 on: October 29, 2007, 06:00:53 AM »
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=16234.0

This epic thread, which got completely out of control, was concerned with the Universal Accelerator. It went through a lot of arguments, but some of them stood out. TheEngineer repeatedly misinterpreted the Equivalence Principle and proposed or implied that it could explain how the UA would allow for gravitational lensing, gravitational redshifting, and gravitational time dilation, all as observed on/from Earth. To explain how, in fact, it could not explain these things in the original context, I brought up the Pound-Rebka experiment, the Hafele-Keating experiment, Abell 2218, and the Shapiro Effect, each of which effectively crushes either the notions that the "gravity" we experience on Earth is merely the UA, or the less commonly held notions that gravitation just doesn't exist. Or they just simply crush the notion that the Equivalence Principle can play a role in these when assuming a Universal Accelerator.

For those who don't care to look through all 40 pages of it, you'll remember that the main points argued were that the Pound-Rebka experiment and the Hafele-Keating experiments could not work in a uniform gravitational field (which would be demonstrated by the Equivalence Principle when assuming an accelerating Earth). They work very well, within theoretical expectations, and can be repeated endlessly, giving the same results. They give results that are impossible outside of a non-uniform gravitational field.

The gravitational lensing observed from Abell 2218 requires gravitational fields of stars and other bodies in space, not any form of Universal Acceleration.

The Shapiro Effect also demonstrates known effects of gravitation in our own solar system, unexplained by any universal accelerator.

Lots of other good points were brought up in the thread, and you'll get to see some FE babbling at its most desperate.


GO LORCAN!!!!



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TheEngineer

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2007, 07:29:12 AM »
TheEngineer repeatedly misinterpreted the Equivalence Principle and proposed or implied that it could explain how the UA would allow for gravitational lensing, gravitational redshifting, and gravitational time dilation, all as observed on/from Earth.
I'm still waiting for evidence to the contrary.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Lorcan

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #134 on: October 29, 2007, 10:29:48 AM »
TheEngineer repeatedly misinterpreted the Equivalence Principle and proposed or implied that it could explain how the UA would allow for gravitational lensing, gravitational redshifting, and gravitational time dilation, all as observed on/from Earth.
I'm still waiting for evidence to the contrary.

Instead of seeking evidence to the contrary, in your position it should be desirable, rather, to look for evidence which supports your stance. Mere absence of evidence to the contrary is no support for a hypothesis. I don't know if that's how things work in engineering, but it doesn't fly in science. To my knowledge no serious experimental or theoretical work has been done which attempts to explain how the gravitational lensing we observe in space around massive bodies can be accounted for with a constantly accelerating earth, or how Earth-based red-shifting measurements would even work within an accelerating frame of reference creating uniform apparent gravitation, or how time dilation measured in regions of slightly weaker or stronger gravitational pull could be described for a constantly accelerating earth.

I'm not stopping you from performing any of the experiments yourself. Nor do I hold the key to all of the scientific literature on the nature of each of these wonders of the universe. It's possible that studies like these have been done. I'd be more than happy to read them and learn something.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 10:35:15 AM by Lorcan »

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TheEngineer

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #135 on: October 29, 2007, 11:03:03 AM »
Instead of seeking evidence to the contrary, in your position it should be desirable, rather, to look for evidence which supports your stance. Mere absence of evidence to the contrary is no support for a hypothesis. I don't know if that's how things work in engineering, but it doesn't fly in science. To my knowledge no serious experimental or theoretical work has been done which attempts to explain how the gravitational lensing we observe in space around massive bodies can be accounted for with a constantly accelerating earth, or how Earth-based red-shifting measurements would even work within an accelerating frame of reference creating uniform apparent gravitation, or how time dilation measured in regions of slightly weaker or stronger gravitational pull could be described for a constantly accelerating earth.
I didn't realize that changing the argument was something allowed in science, as it's not in engineering.

An accelerating FoR can account for the gravitational lensing due to the earth, the shifting of light due to the earth, and time dilation due to the earth. 

Not once did I say the acceleration of the earth can create the gravitational lensing of light around a distant galaxy.


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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #136 on: October 29, 2007, 02:56:42 PM »
Shouldnt you be answering some questions, you flat earth retard?
Quoted for high class
"Once again the apostles of science are found to lack the scientific credentials for their faith. This not an indictment of science; it only shows again that the choice of science over other forms of life is not a scientific choice."

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #137 on: October 29, 2007, 04:06:46 PM »

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Lorcan

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #138 on: October 30, 2007, 01:53:18 AM »
Instead of seeking evidence to the contrary, in your position it should be desirable, rather, to look for evidence which supports your stance. Mere absence of evidence to the contrary is no support for a hypothesis. I don't know if that's how things work in engineering, but it doesn't fly in science. To my knowledge no serious experimental or theoretical work has been done which attempts to explain how the gravitational lensing we observe in space around massive bodies can be accounted for with a constantly accelerating earth, or how Earth-based red-shifting measurements would even work within an accelerating frame of reference creating uniform apparent gravitation, or how time dilation measured in regions of slightly weaker or stronger gravitational pull could be described for a constantly accelerating earth.
I didn't realize that changing the argument was something allowed in science, as it's not in engineering.

I'm sorry if you somehow misunderstood the argument from the very beginning (it does appear that you have, considering the excuses you came up with in the discussion in that thread to try to clarify your "points".) If you need me to recap what the argument was, I'll do it.

If the argument you're referring to is the "evidence to the contrary" argument, my reply is on topic. In science (and engineering) you don't just assume something is true because you haven't seen evidence to the contrary. You believe something is true when you see convincing evidence in support. I wasn't changing the subject, I was suggesting a different method of reasoning...

Quote
An accelerating FoR can account for the gravitational lensing due to the earth, the shifting of light due to the earth, and time dilation due to the earth. 

No, it cannot. I'm sorry, but an accelerating FoR (especially like the one suggested by the UA, to which this was all originally referring whether you like it or not) will not, cannot, and never will be able to account for the shifting of light on the earth, gravitational time dilation on the earth, or the particular type of lensing discussed in the thread. These assumptions have been the entire flaw in your point from the beginning. It is not possible. What part of "non-uniform gravitational field" don't you understand? I already know which part of the Equivalence Principle you're having trouble with.

Does this need to be broken down, further?

A uniformly accelerating FoR creates an apparent uniform gravitational field effect. Always. This is the case all the time. There are no exceptions. It does not, has not, and will not create a non-uniform gravitational field effect. This is something that simply will not happen. Blame physics if you don't like this. Is this what you need evidence to the contrary for? Feel free to design an experiment that tests this statement.
The red-shifting and blue-shifting of light on Earth is a result of a non-uniform gravitational field.
Time dilation as detected on Earth is a result of a non-uniform gravitational field.
The two are not possible in a uniform gravitational field. No experiment exists, which has measured red-shifting and time dilation on Earth, due to apparent gravitational influence, that can be explained with the EP for a non-intertial FoR.

Maybe you have evidence to the contrary?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:59:24 AM by Lorcan »

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #139 on: October 30, 2007, 05:11:42 AM »
Yes. I looked out of my window this morning and it was there.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

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Misfortune

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #140 on: October 30, 2007, 06:55:20 AM »
Yes, the ones that have mysteriously deleted themselves.
Yes, deleted by evil FE mods who were ashamed of their poor model being disproven.


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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #141 on: October 30, 2007, 07:17:07 AM »
*The above post is provided in case anyone reading either
a) Has not spent long enough on this site to realise this fact
b) Have insufficiant brainpower to realise this fact*


In the case of a): Welcome to FES!
In the case of b): Wlcome to FES!
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

*

Misfortune

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #142 on: October 30, 2007, 07:29:09 AM »
I'm always glad to help.

JOIN THE ROUND SIDE.

GET A GLOBE-SHAPED COOKIE.


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TheEngineer

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2007, 07:53:55 AM »
The red-shifting and blue-shifting of light on Earth is a result of a non-uniform gravitational field.
Time dilation as detected on Earth is a result of a non-uniform gravitational field.
The two are not possible in a uniform gravitational field. No experiment exists, which has measured red-shifting and time dilation on Earth, due to apparent gravitational influence, that can be explained with the EP for a non-intertial FoR.

Maybe you have evidence to the contrary?
I have Special Relativity and good ol' Newtonian Mechanics which say otherwise.  Clocks displaced along the vector of acceleration (or it's negative) will experience time dilation.  This is clearly seen in the equations of SR.  Light will shift frequency and again, is seen in the equations.  Light will bend, according to Newtonian dynamics, as it enters the acceleration's "area of effect".


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2007, 03:52:40 PM »
The red-shifting and blue-shifting of light on Earth is a result of a non-uniform gravitational field.
Time dilation as detected on Earth is a result of a non-uniform gravitational field.
The two are not possible in a uniform gravitational field. No experiment exists, which has measured red-shifting and time dilation on Earth, due to apparent gravitational influence, that can be explained with the EP for a non-intertial FoR.

Maybe you have evidence to the contrary?
I have Special Relativity and good ol' Newtonian Mechanics which say otherwise.  Clocks displaced along the vector of acceleration (or it's negative) will experience time dilation.  This is clearly seen in the equations of SR.  Light will shift frequency and again, is seen in the equations.  Light will bend, according to Newtonian dynamics, as it enters the acceleration's "area of effect".

Hehe. There's just no winning is there?
DISCLAIMER: The above is stating the obvious. I have been aware of this fact since about five seconds after first grimacing this site.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

?

dantheman40k

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #145 on: October 31, 2007, 05:13:21 AM »
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Mr. Ireland

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #146 on: October 31, 2007, 05:43:24 AM »
You suck.

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Loard Z

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #147 on: October 31, 2007, 05:48:38 AM »
he does suck.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

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dantheman40k

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #148 on: October 31, 2007, 01:41:57 PM »
You suck.


Something I share in common with your mom then.


Want to try adressing the theories?
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Mr. Ireland

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Re: RE-winning threads
« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2007, 02:16:12 PM »
You suck.


Something I share in common with your mom then.


Want to try adressing the theories?
Oh, God.  I think that's more of a self-insult than anything.  As for the theories, look at the last thread you posted and the answer to the OP is there.  You suck harder.