Forever falling satellites

  • 19 Replies
  • 535 Views
*

faded mike

  • 749
  • new world
Forever falling satellites
« on: April 22, 2019, 09:52:16 PM »
GES please help me out. This may sound stupid, but if a satellite can prepetually fall around the Earth, even though gravity pulls it down, why is it impossible to create a perpetual wheel on earth, as I have read has been done. They say you hook up a motor and generator and get the fly wheel goin at a high speed and the thing takes off.
" Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

*

Stash

  • 1410
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2019, 10:05:54 PM »
GES please help me out. This may sound stupid, but if a satellite can prepetually fall around the Earth, even though gravity pulls it down, why is it impossible to create a perpetual wheel on earth, as I have read has been done. They say you hook up a motor and generator and get the fly wheel goin at a high speed and the thing takes off.

Our earth?
What wheel?
Who are they?

Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2019, 11:04:26 PM »
I'll try give a very simplified examplae. I'm sure one of the other guys here can give more details.

Rotating wheels on earth will ALWAYS loose energy to friction. So a perpetually rotating wheel without regular influx of "new" energu is impossible.

For satellites, yes they move at a speed that causes them to "miss" the earth as they fall under gravity but there is still enough substance at their altitudes that creates some friction causing them to loose speed and begin to fall more closer to the earth. That's why they carry propellant and booster rockets to regularise their orbits.

Take as an example Intelsat's satellite in geosynchronous orbit that lost it's ability to adjust it's orbit not too long ago.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/04/22/intelsat-declares-drifting-satellite-total-loss/

At the end of their service life or before satellites run out of propellant, they are pushed into lower or higher orbits. Lower so they fall back into the earth in the quickest time possible or higher so they orbit the sun and not the earth per se or to have a very high orbit that the processes of fallinf back into the earth will take pretty much forever. This is done to prevent them crashing into other satellites or just becoming nuisances.
 https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/spacecraft-graveyard/en/

*

rabinoz

  • 20401
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2019, 11:16:13 PM »
GES please help me out. This may sound stupid, but if a satellite can prepetually fall around the Earth, even though gravity pulls it down,
If the satellite is in a perfectly circular orbit gravity is always acting at right angles (normal) to the direction of the satellite's motion.
Hence the magnitude of the satellite's velocity (its speed) is not changed. In a perfect vacuum there is no friction so there is no loss of energy that way.

Satellites as low as the ISS are, however, orbiting in a trace of the earth's atmosphere so do slowly lose energy and need periodic reboosting.
There are a few other very minor losses due to the earth's magnetic field etc.

Quote from: faded
why is it impossible to create a perpetual wheel on earth, as I have read has been done.
Because on earth some energy is always lost to bearing or rolling friction or too air resistance.

Quote from: faded
They say you hook up a motor and generator and get the fly wheel going at a high speed and the thing takes off.
Yes, "they 8) say" and "they 8) say" you can invest you money in some Nigerian bank and . . . . . . . .
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 12:20:45 AM by rabinoz »

*

faded mike

  • 749
  • new world
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2019, 11:19:43 PM »
Pls negate my ges remark
Thanks for the explanation. It just seems a little perplexing; that these objects can tumble around the earth and not fall down, alongside the law that a wheel could not be overbalanced to support extra/continued rotation. Which ive heard it actually can and I think the swastika may symbolize this...
" Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

*

faded mike

  • 749
  • new world
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2019, 11:20:44 PM »
I didn't see your post yet Rabinoz.
" Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

*

rabinoz

  • 20401
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 12:23:26 AM »
I didn't see your post yet Rabinoz.
Have you seen it yet and does it say enough (or too much :) )?

Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 12:44:48 AM »
/quote]
Yes, "they 8) say" and "they 8) say" you can invest you money in some Nigerian bank and . . . . . . . .

Easy Rab. My In-Law married a Nigerian. And I can guarantee you that them Nigerian scammers haven't caught on to scamming westerners with perpetual motion machines!

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 4058
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 12:58:00 AM »
So a perpetually rotating wheel without regular influx of "new" energu is impossible.

But it is possible:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1832469#msg1832469 (Meissner effect)

https://no.mosem.eu/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/MOSEM%C2%B2_Moebius_poster.pdf


*

rabinoz

  • 20401
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 02:35:24 AM »
/quote]
Yes, "they 8) say" and "they 8) say" you can invest you money in some Nigerian bank and . . . . . . . .

Easy Rab. My In-Law married a Nigerian. And I can guarantee you that them Nigerian scammers haven't caught on to scamming westerners with perpetual motion machines!
I've nothing against Nigerians in general and probably nothing against any real Nigerian banks.

But please don't suggest "perpetual motion machines" to the the fake bankers. There are already so many variations, including:
"Your long forgotten uncle Victor died leaving you his fortune of 10,000,000 Naira. Please forward your bank details so that we might deposit your fortune, less $AUD40,000 handling fees".

PS 10,000,000 Naira is worth a bit over  $AUD39,000 ;).
      And I have in-laws and closer from Fiji, Samoa (via PNG), China and an original Australian and no scammers among them.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 02:45:24 AM by rabinoz »

*

rabinoz

  • 20401
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 03:00:00 AM »
So a perpetually rotating wheel without regular influx of "new" energu is impossible.

But it is possible:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1832469#msg1832469 (Meissner effect)

https://no.mosem.eu/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/MOSEM%C2%B2_Moebius_poster.pdf


There's no "influx of new energy" with the Meissner effect.
The "Levitating Superconductor on a Möbius strip" is intriguing but there is no influx of "new" energy involved.

Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2019, 05:54:00 AM »
A thing can move but if you cant exteact energy out of it it is not perpetual energy.

It is kinetic energy that never/ nearly stays constant.

Energy is either lost to heat (friction), sound, potential (chang ein elevation), chemical (bwaking forming of bonds) or light.

Try going to school for some of these answers.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 37581
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2019, 08:53:08 AM »
GES please help me out. This may sound stupid, but if a satellite can prepetually fall around the Earth, even though gravity pulls it down, why is it impossible to create a perpetual wheel on earth, as I have read has been done. They say you hook up a motor and generator and get the fly wheel goin at a high speed and the thing takes off.
One word: friction.  You can never escape it, not even in orbit.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2019, 09:07:46 AM »
Entropy:

1.You can't win.

2.You can't break even.

3.You can't even quit the game.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

*

hoppy

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 11114
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2019, 09:11:25 AM »
I didn't see your post yet Rabinoz.
I'll sum his post for you. Satellite work because of MAGIC!
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2019, 09:31:43 AM »
Entropy:

1.You can't win.

2.You can't break even.

3.You can't even quit the game.

Much like arguin with fe.
Haha
So addictive

Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2019, 10:00:24 AM »
Satellites stay up for the same reason a ball you throw doesn't fall to earth immediately after it leaves your hand. For a while, it seems to defy gravity, but friction and gravity work to gradually bring it down. Now imagine you can throw so far your ball makes it halfway around the earth. Now imagine you throw it even harder, so it makes it around multiple times, many many times. Now you have a satellite. For a while, until friction and gravity bring it down. As posted above satellites may have boosters to extend the length of the "throw".

Be careful, though, if you throw faster than 25,000 mph, the ball escapes earth's gravity. If you throw less than 18,000 mph, no orbit. So practice up to get your velocity between 18 and 25 thousand.

I welcome scientific corrections, but I think I explained correctly. Maybe not.
Is it possible for something to be both true and unproven?

Are things that are true and proven any different from things that are true but not proven?

*

rabinoz

  • 20401
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2019, 03:51:17 PM »
Satellites stay up for the same reason a ball you throw doesn't fall to earth immediately after it leaves your hand. For a while, it seems to defy gravity, but friction and gravity work to gradually bring it down. Now imagine you can throw so far your ball makes it halfway around the earth. Now imagine you throw it even harder, so it makes it around multiple times, many many times. Now you have a satellite. For a while, until friction and gravity bring it down. As posted above satellites may have boosters to extend the length of the "throw".

Be careful, though, if you throw faster than 25,000 mph, the ball escapes earth's gravity. If you throw less than 18,000 mph, no orbit. So practice up to get your velocity between 18 and 25 thousand.

I welcome scientific corrections, but I think I explained correctly. Maybe not.
Except that if you throw your ball from ground level at that velocity it will burn up from drag in the atmosphere.
The outside temperature on the SR-71 flying at up to 85,000 ft and "only" Mach 3 reached 510 C near the exhaust. The ultimate speed was limited by skin heating even in the very rare atmosphere at that altitude.

So your poor ball might not get far.
But "in principle" it's correct enough except for another little detail.
Even if the earth had no atmosphere and you threw the ball at velocity between 18 and 25 thousand mph:
       if you threw it precisely horizontally you'd better duck 1.4 hours later or the ball might knock your block off
and if you threw if at a slightest upward angle it would collide with the earth before completing one orbit.
But "in principle . . . . " ;)!

*

faded mike

  • 749
  • new world
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 04:20:39 PM »
So is it true that the space program won't reveal how much rocket propellant and i presume trajectory propellant they use?
" Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

*

rabinoz

  • 20401
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Forever falling satellites
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 04:23:56 PM »
So is it true that the space program won't reveal how much rocket propellant and i presume trajectory propellant they use?
No, that's easy to find out. What rocket do need information on?