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What causes the tides

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2019, 08:58:09 AM »
Quote from: sandokhan on April 09, 2019, 10:49:10 PM
I have already addressed the stationary loop, not once but twice:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=79637.msg2148867#msg2148867

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2153966#msg2153966

You and your pal seem to be the only ones yet to realize this fact.

Maybe we're the only ones to check to see if you're blowing smoke, which it seems you are.

From the "examples" you cite:

Quote from: sandokhan on February 21, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
If two pulses of light are sent in opposite directions around a stationary circular loop of radius R, they will travel the same inertial distance at the same speed, so they will arrive at the end point simultaneously. This is illustrated in the left-hand figure below.



If the interferometer is being rotated, both pulses begin with an initial separation of 2piR from the end point, so the difference between the travel times is:

<and on and on and on...>


Quote from: sandokhan on March 08, 2019, 01:53:25 AM
First, the Sagnac effect formula for a square interferometer which rotates around its own geometrical center.

...

Now, the much more difficult case for the same square ring laser interferometer located away from the center of rotation.

<yada, yada, yada...>


So, no, you didn't address the stationary loop, not once, not twice, not at all. You copied people's analyses of a rotating loop, probably with the hope that no one would bother to check them.

If there is an analysis of a stationary loop buried somewhere in those tomes, please point it (or them) out. Regardless, it should be straightforward to produce one of your own, without reams of unnecessary verbiage to serve as a distraction, if you understand what you're doing.

Apparently JB has called this particular bluff.

[Edit - grammar correction]
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 09:01:54 AM by Alpha2Omega »
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sandokhan

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2019, 10:02:57 AM »
Quote from: sandokhan on March 08, 2019, 01:53:25 AM

There have been some questions regarding the loops of the stationary Sagnac interferometer located away from the center of rotation.

For a stationary interferometer, we simply let v = 0 in the formula:



So, there will be no time difference, l/c - l/c = 0.

In the same way, we let v1 and v2 = 0 in the generalized Sagnac effect formula:

Δt = (l1 + l2)/(c - v1 - v2) - (l1 + l2)/(c + v1 + v2)

No time difference, (l1 + l2)/c - (l1 + l2)/c = 0.

This much is evident from the derivation of the global/generalized Sagnac effect formula:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2117351#msg2117351

Quote from: sandokhan on February 21, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
Let us see just how easy it is to catch jackblack lying:

Quote from: JackBlack on June 02, 2017, 06:06:27 PM

A nice simple example, consider a single arc, where the light merely propagates along it, back and forth, so the area of the "loop" would be 0.

This means going around the loop is the same in each direction.
This means it will produce NO sagnac effect.
And this remains true regardless of where this "loop" is placed.

Now lets try 2 arcs, one at R1 and one at R2, where the sections connecting the 2 arcs are along the radii.
What this means is that going between them is the same for both directions.
In each one you have it going to the inner arc along a radii, and going to the outer arc along a radii, so the path length and time taken will be equal for those sections.
The only thing giving rise to a difference will be the sections along the arc.

So, you are admitting that in the case of rotation the only thing giving rise to a difference will be the arms l1 and l2.

Exactly what I said repeatedly.

Yet, you are asking for a stationary loop which is not the SAGNAC EFFECT.

You are trolling the upper forums.

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JackBlack

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2019, 01:26:51 PM »
Quote from: sandokhan on April 10, 2019, 05:35:38 AM
Quote from: rabinoz on April 10, 2019, 04:34:42 AM
No where in your little paper does he claim the Caimir effect is long range.
The scientific illiteracy of the RE is beyond belief.
Once again, stop projecting your own inadequacies onto others and deal with the issue at hand.
What causes the tides?

If you want to discuss your inability to understand or derive the Sagnac effect go back to one of the prior threads where that was discussed. Maybe you can figure out the derivation for a stationary loop.
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Platonius21

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2019, 02:57:18 PM »
Quote from: sandokhan on April 10, 2019, 05:35:38 AM
The scientific illiteracy of the RE is beyond belief.

The fact that you call yourself a scientist and also believe the earth is flat says all we need to know about scientific illiteracy.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2019, 03:04:06 PM »
Quote from: Platonius21 on April 10, 2019, 02:57:18 PM

The fact that you call yourself a scientist and also believe the earth is flat says all we need to know about scientific illiteracy.

Platypus21 sounds kinda judgy.   ::)
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rabinoz

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2019, 03:24:05 PM »
Quote from: rabinoz on April 10, 2019, 03:20:17 PM
Quote from: sandokhan on April 10, 2019, 05:35:38 AM
Quote from: rabinoz on April 10, 2019, 04:34:42 AM
No where in your little paper does he claim the Caimir effect is long range.
I DID NOT WRITE THAT AND YOU KNOW IT! If you are incapable of posting honestly just run away and hide!
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Bullwinkle

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2019, 03:26:05 PM »
Quote from: rabinoz on April 10, 2019, 03:20:17 PM
Quote from: sandokhan on April 10, 2019, 05:35:38 AM
Quote from: rabinoz on April 10, 2019, 04:34:42 AM
No where in your little paper does he claim the Caimir effect is long range.
I DID NOT WRITE THAT AND YOU KNOW IT! If you are incapable of posting honestly just run away and hide!


That is clearly a BlackJack quote.

sandokhan needs to explain this.
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sandokhan

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2019, 10:18:02 PM »
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rabinoz

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2019, 11:30:29 PM »
Quote from: sandokhan on April 10, 2019, 10:18:02 PM
Quote from: rabinoz on February 08, 2019, 03:47:46 AM
There is no "long range Casimir effect".
Yes, I wrote that. So what?

Quote from: sandokhan
Or take a long look at this:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=76954.msg2081200#msg2081200
Yes, I wrote that. So what? I am at a total loss at why you think that post is even slightly relevant to whatever you are claiming!
That post simply shows how appallingly ignorant you are on the importance of "units".

Quote from: sandokhan
Simply jackblack 2.0
I am not JackBlack. Get used to it!

By the way, to the best of my knowledge JackBlack has never written "Casimir" in any post he has made.
And I have  used "Casimir" many times, in quotes from Prof. Steven Lamoreaux and in what I have written myself.

So, please desist from your silly claim that JackBlack and I are the same person.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: What causes the tides
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2019, 12:36:32 PM »
Quote from: sandokhan on April 10, 2019, 10:02:57 AM
Quote from: sandokhan on March 08, 2019, 01:53:25 AM

There have been some questions regarding the loops of the stationary Sagnac interferometer located away from the center of rotation.

For a stationary interferometer, we simply let v = 0 in the formula:



So, there will be no time difference, l/c - l/c = 0.

In the same way, we let v1 and v2 = 0 in the generalized Sagnac effect formula:

Δt = (l1 + l2)/(c - v1 - v2) - (l1 + l2)/(c + v1 + v2)

No time difference, (l1 + l2)/c - (l1 + l2)/c = 0.

This much is evident from the derivation of the global/generalized Sagnac effect formula:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2117351#msg2117351

It appears that you think that the above disproves this:

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on April 09, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Ducking the invitation to work through a straightforward problem like showing how the time taken for light to travel around a stationary loop is calculated further bolsters the conclusion that you're just bluffing, and have not the slightest understanding about the stuff you copy from elsewhere and post here.

It doesn't. The fact that you offer that as a response suggests you don't understand what was asked. This is not unexpected.

You trot out a formula that gives time difference when asked to explain the formula that gives time. When asked how much time something takes, "it takes the same time in both directions" doesn't answer the question.

Maybe you'll eventually see the answer to the question asked, maybe not. Maybe you'll just pony up more and more stuff and the answer happens to be in it.

Quote
Quote from: sandokhan on February 21, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
Let us see just how easy it is to catch jackblack lying:

Quote from: JackBlack on June 02, 2017, 06:06:27 PM

A nice simple example, consider a single arc, where the light merely propagates along it, back and forth, so the area of the "loop" would be 0.

This means going around the loop is the same in each direction.
This means it will produce NO sagnac effect.
And this remains true regardless of where this "loop" is placed.

Now lets try 2 arcs, one at R1 and one at R2, where the sections connecting the 2 arcs are along the radii.
What this means is that going between them is the same for both directions.
In each one you have it going to the inner arc along a radii, and going to the outer arc along a radii, so the path length and time taken will be equal for those sections.
The only thing giving rise to a difference will be the sections along the arc.

So, you are admitting that in the case of rotation the only thing giving rise to a difference will be the arms l1 and l2.

Exactly what I said repeatedly.

Yet, you are asking for a stationary loop which is not the SAGNAC EFFECT.

You are trolling the upper forums.

JB is establishing that you don't know enough about what you post to make any meaningful comments about it. Why should anyone believe you understand the cause of differences in time it takes light to propagate around a rotating loop in opposite directions when you can't even explain how to calculate the simpler case of the time it takes light to propagate around the same loop (in either direction) if it's not rotating.

So far, it seems like he's right and you're reduced to attempts to insult instead of providing meaningful answers.
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"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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