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Socialism

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Son of Orospu

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Socialism
« on: March 20, 2019, 06:52:51 AM »
I would like to start a debate about the merits and downside of socialism.  I believe that socialism is wrong.
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BatteryStaple

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 06:59:41 AM »
Wrong from a moral sense, or wrong on a true/false scale?
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 07:01:07 AM »
Quote from: BatteryStaple on March 20, 2019, 06:59:41 AM
Wrong from a moral sense, or wrong on a true/false scale?

Wrong from a sociological sense. 
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BatteryStaple

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 07:05:42 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:01:07 AM
Quote from: BatteryStaple on March 20, 2019, 06:59:41 AM
Wrong from a moral sense, or wrong on a true/false scale?

Wrong from a sociological sense.
Eh, not really. It essentially all boils down to "You're a fuckwad making money off these guys, pay them equally or you're in prison".
Sounds a-ok to me.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 07:08:40 AM »
I make good money, not because the government gives it to me, but because I have an education and many years of experience.  Socialists want to take my money and give to people who are not doing as well as I am. 
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2019, 07:11:04 AM »
Lazy people want to share everything.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2019, 07:14:28 AM »
If I started a company that made widgets, I would go out of business unless people wanted to buy my widgets.  And then the liberal socialists would claim that I am stealing money from the poor people.
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BatteryStaple

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2019, 07:29:24 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:08:40 AM
Socialists want to take my money and give to people who are not doing as well as I am.
...and there's the selfishness that characterizes you people
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2019, 07:31:32 AM »
Quote from: BatteryStaple on March 20, 2019, 07:29:24 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:08:40 AM
Socialists want to take my money and give to people who are not doing as well as I am.
...and there's the selfishness that characterizes you people


I am not rich, but I get by.  I just don't think I should give my money to people who will not work or are on drugs.  Do you like to give your money to people who will not work or are on drugs? 
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BatteryStaple

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 07:37:41 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:31:32 AM
Quote from: BatteryStaple on March 20, 2019, 07:29:24 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:08:40 AM
Socialists want to take my money and give to people who are not doing as well as I am.
...and there's the selfishness that characterizes you people


I am not rich, but I get by.  I just don't think I should give my money to people who will not work or are on drugs.  Do you like to give your money to people who will not work or are on drugs?
Socialist countries have historically made those people who won't work, work. As for someone on drugs, why should I care? it's none of my business if Gayer is snorting cocaine up her ass.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 07:45:13 AM »
Quote from: BatteryStaple on March 20, 2019, 07:37:41 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:31:32 AM
Quote from: BatteryStaple on March 20, 2019, 07:29:24 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:08:40 AM
Socialists want to take my money and give to people who are not doing as well as I am.
...and there's the selfishness that characterizes you people


I am not rich, but I get by.  I just don't think I should give my money to people who will not work or are on drugs.  Do you like to give your money to people who will not work or are on drugs?
Socialist countries have historically made those people who won't work, work. As for someone on drugs, why should I care? it's none of my business if Gayer is snorting cocaine up her ass.

On this matter, I find myself on the libertarian side.  If you want to do drugs, then fine.  Just don't expect for me to pay for you to be in rehab or be in prison. 
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BatteryStaple

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 07:47:15 AM »
>Libertarianism
That's a meme for another day, however.
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Slemon

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2019, 07:47:38 AM »
Let's say we have two people.
One person walks into their place of work, frustrated by a few coworkers, and proceeds to beat them up with an office chair, likely breaking a couple of limbs, but not killing anyone. Current laws say that they would be restrained and put into prison and not executed.
The other person is too lazy to leave their house and just wants to watch TV. According to you that person deserves to die.

The problem isn't socialism. The problem is the current system and the mindset it's given people is fundamentally broken.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2019, 07:53:50 AM »
The problem is that socialism means that you take things from other people and give it to others, and we will kill anyone who thinks differently or could potentially think differently. 
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Slemon

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 07:54:52 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:53:50 AM
and we will kill anyone who thinks differently or could potentially think differently.
Uh.
No.
No it doesn't.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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BatteryStaple

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 07:57:29 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:53:50 AM
and we will kill anyone who thinks differently or could potentially think differently.
That's exactly what capitalism does. For example, let's say the Moose doesn't want to be a wage slave. If he resists, he starves to death. Add up all the potential biases in a profit driven system, and you get what's happening to blacks, atheists, gays, and all them.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 08:02:38 AM »
Quote from: Jane on March 20, 2019, 07:54:52 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:53:50 AM
and we will kill anyone who thinks differently or could potentially think differently.
Uh.
No.
No it doesn't.

Both of my grandfathers just never came home one day.  One was a lawyer and the other was a politician.  Please, don't try to explain to me how communists or socialists don't kill people. 
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Slemon

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 08:09:05 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 08:02:38 AM
Quote from: Jane on March 20, 2019, 07:54:52 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:53:50 AM
and we will kill anyone who thinks differently or could potentially think differently.
Uh.
No.
No it doesn't.

Both of my grandfathers just never came home one day.  One was a lawyer and the other was a politician.  Please, don't try to explain to me how communists or socialists don't kill people.
Learn the difference between -ist and -ism. All individuals regardless of political view can kill people. Socialism just doesn't require it, unlike capitalism that thrives on it.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 08:10:53 AM »
Quote from: Jane on March 20, 2019, 08:09:05 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 08:02:38 AM
Quote from: Jane on March 20, 2019, 07:54:52 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:53:50 AM
and we will kill anyone who thinks differently or could potentially think differently.
Uh.
No.
No it doesn't.

Both of my grandfathers just never came home one day.  One was a lawyer and the other was a politician.  Please, don't try to explain to me how communists or socialists don't kill people.
Learn the difference between -ist and -ism. All individuals regardless of political view can kill people. Socialism just doesn't require it, unlike capitalism that thrives on it.

So a letter makes a big difference and millions of people do not die?
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Slemon

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2019, 08:13:46 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 08:10:53 AM
So a letter makes a big difference and millions of people do not die?
It's the difference between a baseball player being a great hitter and being Hitler. So yes. Yes it does. Welcome to literacy 101.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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BatteryStaple

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2019, 08:16:47 AM »
>tfw Jane talks like a dirty commie

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2019, 08:26:51 AM »
Quote from: Jane on March 20, 2019, 08:13:46 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 08:10:53 AM
So a letter makes a big difference and millions of people do not die?
It's the difference between a baseball player being a great hitter and being Hitler. So yes. Yes it does. Welcome to literacy 101.

Every single time, without exception, a socialist or communist government comes into power, people die. 
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Slemon

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 09:06:16 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 08:26:51 AM
Every single time, without exception, a government comes into power, people die.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2019, 09:20:41 AM »
Please don't misquote me.  Socialist governments are known for rounding people up and executing them, not for doing something wrong, but for having the capability to overthrow their regime. 
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Junker

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2019, 09:25:51 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 06:52:51 AM
I would like to start a debate about the merits and downside of socialism.  I believe that socialism is wrong.

You believe that workers owning the means of production is wrong? I think you have a skewed perception of what socialism actually is.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2019, 09:27:13 AM »
Quote from: Junker on March 20, 2019, 09:25:51 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 06:52:51 AM
I would like to start a debate about the merits and downside of socialism.  I believe that socialism is wrong.

You believe that workers owning the means of production is wrong? I think you have a skewed perception of what socialism actually is.

Name a country in which the workers "own" the means of production.  It sounds good on paper, but never actually happens. 
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2019, 09:32:55 AM »
Quote from: Junker on March 20, 2019, 09:25:51 AM

You believe that workers owning the means of production is wrong?

Nothing stopping any group of workers from doing just that.
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Junker

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2019, 09:34:33 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 09:27:13 AM
Quote from: Junker on March 20, 2019, 09:25:51 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 06:52:51 AM
I would like to start a debate about the merits and downside of socialism.  I believe that socialism is wrong.

You believe that workers owning the means of production is wrong? I think you have a skewed perception of what socialism actually is.

Name a country in which the workers "own" the means of production.  It sounds good on paper, but never actually happens.

Right, so it seems you actually disagree with something other than socialism given that the definition of socialism is workers owning the means of production.
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Slemon

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2019, 09:35:51 AM »
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 09:20:41 AM
Please don't misquote me.  Socialist governments are known for rounding people up and executing them, not for doing something wrong, but for having the capability to overthrow their regime.
No, revolutions in general are known for doing that. Sometimes they're driven by socialist principles, sometimes they're not, it's still not part of socialism.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2019, 09:42:51 AM »
Quote from: Junker on March 20, 2019, 09:34:33 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 09:27:13 AM
Quote from: Junker on March 20, 2019, 09:25:51 AM
Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 06:52:51 AM
I would like to start a debate about the merits and downside of socialism.  I believe that socialism is wrong.

You believe that workers owning the means of production is wrong? I think you have a skewed perception of what socialism actually is.

Name a country in which the workers "own" the means of production.  It sounds good on paper, but never actually happens.

Right, so it seems you actually disagree with something other than socialism given that the definition of socialism is workers owning the means of production.

As I said, it is not inherently a bad idea.  It just never works out that way.  Again, name a country in which it worked, please. 
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