An Australian Summers night in Alaska

I'm trying to reconcile the sun's path above a flat earth.

It seems Australia has over 14 hours of sunlight on their longest day of the year.
In other words, the sun sets for them 7 hours after high local solar noon that day.

Considering that the sun takes 24 hours to complete a circuit around the circle approximately above the equator, 7 hours after high solar noon in Australia, the sun will be over sort of behind Alaska.

And the sun, as it is setting on this day in Australia, will be closer to Alaska, than to Australia.

The problem is that on the longest day in Australia, it's the shortest day in Alaska - and in fact Northern Alaska will be right in the middle of 69 days of darkness.

So how can the sun be still shinning in Australia and not in Alaska when the sun is closer to Alaska?

Now look, this question isn't specific to Alaska and Australia. Saying those regions are actually incorrectly shown on the map doesn't help.

The point is that anything at the latitude of "25 degrees" south will have over 14 hours of sunlight on the longest day, and will have sun during a time when the "north pole" will be closer and yet in total darkness.

As a side note, on the longest day in Australia, the sun would set and rise about 53 degrees north of due west or due east, which based on reports from people living there, is not even close to true.

What are some of the best ideas on how this works?

See this diagram to better understand.

No problem with PHEW FE Map.

No problem with PHEW FE Map.

Very interesting, but I'm not fully understanding the full ramifications of your answer. Could you perchance clarify for me?

I must admit, I'm having a difficult time spotting Australia. I'm not familiar with this map. But is that Antarctica in the center?

So Alaska would be stretched around the rim instead?

And the ice ring is in Alaska? I thought a lot of people lived in Alaska and bush pilots flew rattle trap piper cubs all over Alaska.

I'm so confused.

But even with this map, isn't there still a dilemma with whatever continent is at "25 degrees outside of the equator" during their longest day and the fact that the sun would still be closer to the center (which was in the dark) while being further from "25 degrees outside the equator" where the sun would be still setting?

And I'm quoting "degrees" because I realize it's really the wrong unit for a flat earth.

And if I knew exactly what size the flat earth was I'd just use linear units.

For the sake of discussion, Google Earth says Australia is 1700 miles outside of the equator.

So I guess I should have posed my question about "A land 1700 miles outside the equator" instead of "Australia."

But I think my question is still unanswered because even changing the map doesn't change the fact that a flat disk has a certain geometry to it.

On a 24,000 mile diameter disk, how can the sun still be shining while setting in a land 1700 miles outside the equator when its dark in the center of the disk and the center is closer to the sun than the land 1700 miles outside the equator where the sun is just setting?

Thanks!

Quote from: Danang on March 10, 2019, 04:19:47 AM

No problem with PHEW FE Map.

Very interesting, but I'm not fully understanding the full ramifications of your answer. Could you perchance clarify for me?
I must admit, I'm having a difficult time spotting Australia. I'm not familiar with this map. But is that Antarctica in the center?

So Alaska would be stretched around the rim instead?

And the ice ring is in Alaska? I thought a lot of people lived in Alaska and bush pilots flew rattle trap piper cubs all over Alaska.
I'm so confused.

I doubt that Danang fully understands the full ramifications of his "PHEW FE Map" so your further questions might fall on deaf ears.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

But I think my question is still unanswered because even changing the map doesn't change the fact that a flat disk has a certain geometry to it.

On a 24,000 mile diameter disk, how can the sun still be shining while setting in a land 1700 miles outside the equator when its dark in the center of the disk and the center is closer to the sun than the land 1700 miles outside the equator where the sun is just setting?

Thanks!

Exactly, but no flat earther seems forthcoming. I wonder how long it will take? Maybe Tom Bishop has an answer ?
But the "path of the sun" (and the moon, planets and stars for that matter) seems an insurmountable problem for modern flat earthers.
Yet that "path of the sun" seemed to present no problem to the ancient flat earthers, such as the Sumerians, Babylonians or even the Greek, Anaximander.

Anaximander

Anaximander’s model of the Universe.
The Sun, the Moon and each of the stars is actually a transparent ring – or hoop – made of air.
Each ring is filled with fire which we can only see when the hole in that particular ring passes over us.

Exactly, but no flat earther seems forthcoming. I wonder how long it will take? Maybe Tom Bishop has an answer ?

That does seem to be my difficulty here.

But yay for Mr. Bishop! Or any brave soul who can answer the question!

Phew FE Map is south polar centered. It makes sense that Australia's sunset cannot be viewed from Alaska due to the over distance.

As I said before: PHEW FE map is the one and only correct map.

Phew FE Map is south polar centered. It makes sense that Australia's sunset cannot be viewed from Alaska due to the over distance.

Really?  Prove it by showing a map of that.

Phew FE Map is south polar centered. It makes sense that Australia's sunset cannot be viewed from Alaska due to the over distance.

Thank you very much my friend but I really need your help on this new map.

Can you please explain some things to me?

Am I to understand that when I sailed to Alaska on a ship that I was actually going to Antarctica? I mean, my compass was pointing north.
Or did I go to the ice ring? There sure were a lot of people, cars, roads, and mooses and I didn't see any penguins.
And when I looked up at night, the north star was rather high in the sky, and the big dipper was on all the state highway signs.
Where ever it was I went, all the people thought we was under the north star, and proud of it, right?
(The state of Alaska, USA, prints the big dipper and north star on all their state highway signs. You can google Alaska State Highway Sign.)

Anyway, please help me understand.

Is this Phew map flat? or curved?
Why are the lines curved on it?

Uhoh! I found some countries on your map that have the same problem Australia does on the other map!
Look at the two green countries. You'll have to tell me what country they are because your map is so distorted. But I put green dots on them for you.
Those two cities are supposed to be getting 14 hours of daylight on their longest day of the year!

And yet, the south pole, in the middle, should be dark at that very moment, and yet look, it's even closer to the sun!

I fail to see how this map solves anything. It sure confuses some things though if the south pole is in the center!

Is the ice ring really in Alaska? I wonder if Canada knows about that.

Flat Earth Theory tactics:

When you can't debate the subject at hand, distract them with a new and convoluted map.

As I said before: PHEW FE map is the one and only correct map.

That's wonderful Danang, but, umm, just how long does it take to drive the length of that main continent around the edge? Is it populated?

Lacking some explanation, I'm going to have to assume that my question stands and that it's impossible for the earth to be flat on the basis of my opening question.

It's funny how our brains are wired to see exactly what we want to see.

For instance, I read the title as "Australian Ann Summers Night in Alaska".

Imagine my disappointment.

It's funny how our brains are wired to see exactly what we want to see.

For instance, I read the title as "Australian Ann Summers Night in Alaska".

Imagine my disappointment.

that's Dyslexia.   

Quote from: Danang on March 12, 2019, 03:10:52 AM

Phew FE Map is south polar centered. It makes sense that Australia's sunset cannot be viewed from Alaska due to the over distance.

Really?  Prove it by showing a map of that.

PHEW FE Map gives the outline of the true shape of lands and continents on earth.
The details require a survey starting from zero to figure out the real data as well as to verify which 'official' informations are real and which are not.
Maths and statistics/tables are not everything.

Quote from: Danang on March 12, 2019, 03:10:52 AM

Phew FE Map is south polar centered. It makes sense that Australia's sunset cannot be viewed from Alaska due to the over distance.

Thank you very much my friend but I really need your help on this new map.

Can you please explain some things to me?

Am I to understand that when I sailed to Alaska on a ship that I was actually going to Antarctica? I mean, my compass was pointing north.
Or did I go to the ice ring? There sure were a lot of people, cars, roads, and mooses and I didn't see any penguins.
And when I looked up at night, the north star was rather high in the sky, and the big dipper was on all the state highway signs.
Where ever it was I went, all the people thought we was under the north star, and proud of it, right?
(The state of Alaska, USA, prints the big dipper and north star on all their state highway signs. You can google Alaska State Highway Sign.)

Anyway, please help me understand.

Is this Phew map flat? or curved?
Why are the lines curved on it?

Uhoh! I found some countries on your map that have the same problem Australia does on the other map!
Look at the two green countries. You'll have to tell me what country they are because your map is so distorted. But I put green dots on them for you.
Those two cities are supposed to be getting 14 hours of daylight on their longest day of the year!

And yet, the south pole, in the middle, should be dark at that very moment, and yet look, it's even closer to the sun!

I fail to see how this map solves anything. It sure confuses some things though if the south pole is in the center!

Is the ice ring really in Alaska? I wonder if Canada knows about that.

Antarctica has high iced shores, but not all parts appear so. There are normal shores at Antarctica.

The green spots are Russia and America.
The view of the sun on northern summer at 25° of latitude will be the same as in Australia at summer, because there is/are transparent dome that refract/bend the sunlight. At north summer solstice, the sun is at the highests position so that the morning/evening sunlight trajectory looks coming from the higher latitude, in fact the true sun position at sunset/sunrise moments are at east/west of the center of celestial Antarctica.
The sun in Arabic means "looks not as it is", meaning: the real sun positition is not necessarily at where the position that people are seeing. There is a game of lensings.

As to the map, since PHEW FE Map is the inverted version of the conventional FE map (with innovation of curved grids and some land mass modifications) the rim becomes at the north and accordingly you'll never reach Antarctica by going beyond the north rim.

The radius of equator in PHEW FE Map equals 10,000 km. This gives consequence that the equator circumference will be radius times Tau, no, radius times Tahu = 10,000 Χ 6.34314 = 63,431.4 km.
The north rim circumference (90°N) will be twice of the equator circumference >> 126,862.8 km.

To circumnavigate the Antarctica continent, say, from the average radius of 65° S of latitude, the circumference distance will be (90-latitude)/90 Χ equator radius Χ Tahu = (90-65)/90 Χ 10,000 Χ 6.34314 = 17,169.83 km.

There are speculations of North pole rim whether it's populated or not. Some says aliens stays there. Maybe. Let's see next.
But I believe there are mysterious personalities on the Antarctica who "own" the world. It seemingly political and religious elits know it, so that they go there to ask for blessings etc.

I think the range of sunlight at equinox time is supposed to be 90° of longitude distance from the sun and its edges  follow the curved vertical grids.

Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 12, 2019, 11:31:03 AM

Quote from: Danang on March 12, 2019, 03:10:52 AM

Phew FE Map is south polar centered. It makes sense that Australia's sunset cannot be viewed from Alaska due to the over distance.

Thank you very much my friend but I really need your help on this new map.

Can you please explain some things to me?

Am I to understand that when I sailed to Alaska on a ship that I was actually going to Antarctica? I mean, my compass was pointing north.
Or did I go to the ice ring? There sure were a lot of people, cars, roads, and mooses and I didn't see any penguins.
And when I looked up at night, the north star was rather high in the sky, and the big dipper was on all the state highway signs.
Where ever it was I went, all the people thought we was under the north star, and proud of it, right?
(The state of Alaska, USA, prints the big dipper and north star on all their state highway signs. You can google Alaska State Highway Sign.)

Anyway, please help me understand.

Is this Phew map flat? or curved?
Why are the lines curved on it?

Uhoh! I found some countries on your map that have the same problem Australia does on the other map!
Look at the two green countries. You'll have to tell me what country they are because your map is so distorted. But I put green dots on them for you.
Those two cities are supposed to be getting 14 hours of daylight on their longest day of the year!

And yet, the south pole, in the middle, should be dark at that very moment, and yet look, it's even closer to the sun!

I fail to see how this map solves anything. It sure confuses some things though if the south pole is in the center!

Is the ice ring really in Alaska? I wonder if Canada knows about that.

The green spots are Russia and America.

Wow great, so I really did go to the ice ring when I went to Alaska!

So does this mean that if you flew from Russia to Florida USA, you would pass over the south pole - the "uninhabited" Antarctica?


But I still have one big question for you:
I looked it up, and Moscow, Russia, has over 16 hours of daylight on their  longest day of the year!

That means that 8 hours after local solar high noon, there's still sunlight in Moscow, Russia.
After 8 hours, the sun has traveled around it's circle, and is now closer to the center than it is Russia.
And yet, it's still light in Russia, but it's dark on the center pole, even though the center pole is closer!

And the reason I put two green dots is because I didn't understand the curved lines. Are those timezones?
Anyway, it doesn't matter because the curved lines might help the problem during let's say sunset but it'll make it worse during sunrise. Or vs a vs.

So please explain to me how it can be dark in the center and still light in Russia and America  even though the center is closer than America and Russia.

Thank you.

Tom Foolery says:
"So does this mean that if you flew from Russia to Florida USA, you would pass over the south pole - the "uninhabited" Antarctica?"

>> You're right, friend. It's supposed to be so. I hope future flights will be effective and efficient by going through rational STRAIGHT paths based on geological realities. No more curved path that wastes time, energy and fuel. (hmm some people said airplane fuel is a hoax).


"I didn't understand the curved lines. Are those timezones?"

>> Yeah. Kind of solar time zones which gives you the actual geopositions of lands on earth based on sunrise/sunset light range for any moment and any place throught 24 hours by equinox sun. It's suitable for climate related analysis.
So far, with respect to RET, this curved lines is regarded as straight lines from south pole to "north pole". That contradicts the reality. Sunlight edges are curved, not straight.

And as I said before, the grids can be set with multiple formats. It can also be like conventional FE's which gives you the definite North and South, noon sun positions etc. it can also be pure squares for figuring out the distance between two places, flight navigation etc. with more easily.

"how it can be dark in the center and still light in Russia and America  even though the center is closer than America and Russia."


>> At northern summer solstice, the sun position is at the most far distance from the center of south pole. The radius of the sun from south pole is changing all the time, so is the sun's speed.


"Thank you"

>> You're welcome, it's my pleasure. And I also appreciate your interest in PHEW Flat Earth.

cc: Rabinoz & JackBlack 

Of course critiques are welcomed 

Tom Foolery says:
"So does this mean that if you flew from Russia to Florida USA, you would pass over the south pole - the "uninhabited" Antarctica?"

>> You're right, friend. It's supposed to be so. I hope future flights will be effective and efficient by going through rational STRAIGHT paths based on geological realities. No more curved path that wastes time, energy and fuel. (hmm some people said airplane fuel is a hoax).


"I didn't understand the curved lines. Are those timezones?"

>> Yeah. Kind of solar time zones which gives you the actual geopositions of lands on earth based on sunrise/sunset light range for any moment and any place throught 24 hours by equinox sun. It's suitable for climate related analysis.
So far, with respect to RET, this curved lines is regarded as straight lines from south pole to "north pole". That contradicts the reality. Sunlight edges are curved, not straight.

And as I said before, the grids can be set with multiple formats. It can also be like conventional FE's which gives you the definite North and South, noon sun positions etc. it can also be pure squares for figuring out the distance between two places, flight navigation etc. with more easily.

"how it can be dark in the center and still light in Russia and America  even though the center is closer than America and Russia."


>> At northern summer solstice, the sun position is at the most far distance from the center of south pole. The radius of the sun from south pole is changing all the time, so is the sun's speed.


"Thank you"

>> You're welcome, it's my pleasure. And I also appreciate your interest in PHEW Flat Earth.

cc: Rabinoz & JackBlack 

Danang, can you be a little bit more succinct. It's hard to follow as a spectator. Use your pizza plate and diagram out your sun movement. And be a little less Picasso about it. Capiche?

Quote

"how it can be dark in the center and still light in Russia and America  even though the center is closer than America and Russia."
~Tom Foolery

>> At northern summer solstice, the sun position is at the most far distance from the center of south pole. The radius of the sun from south pole is changing all the time, so is the sun's speed.

Danang,

Please examine the diagram below.
You can see that at the exact same instant, during the longest day in Russia, the sun is just setting, while at the exact same time in USA, the sun is just rising.
At this exact time, Antarctica in the center, will be in the middle of it's winter, and it will be dark.
And yet in your model, Antarctica would be more brightly lit than USA or Russia because it's closer to the sun!

This is all at the same time, so the sun must be shining on the same circle size.

This is a serious problem with your model.

You will find that your model simply cannot work.

But thank you for explaining it to me, it was worth a shot.

The radius of the sun from south pole is changing all the time, so is the sun's speed.

This should be observable, correct?

Is the "phew" map called "phew" because it was created by someone saying that word as they wiped a long bead of sweat over the drawing of the asian continent and stretched it out at least 50,000 kilometers East of its actual position?

To get to Japan on this "map" from Australia, one must travel South East, whereas Japan is correctly located due North of Australia. It is an unusable model. It correctly represents nothing in the real world. All country shapes are wrong. If anybody used that model to travel from point A to point B in the world, they simply would not arrive at point B. The same problems with the popular fe map are emphasized 1000 fold with this one.

"No problem with the phew fe map", says danang. Try trillions of problems. To say there are problems with this model is the understatement of the century.

Burn it, flush it, blow it up with dynamite, just destroy it.

I'm afraid I have to agree, the PHEW map or whatever really doesn't solve anything, and it just creates a lot more problems.

And I guess this just about wraps up the question - the earth obviously can't be flat because it would not allow it to be sunny in Australia for 14 hours while dark all day in northern Alaska.

Maybe bullwinkle has some charming fluff to add in, since I'm fresh out of it?

Every thread that ends with flat being totally disproven should have a chaser with bullwinkle giving some profoundly unrelated but intricately well humored words of wisdom.

Tom... I suggest you to ask after learning FE models sufficiently.
Phew's sun goes CCW and the sunlight range is not so extent as you described.

Sunset... I suggest you to go detail so that you can figure out the reliability of Phew.
Air and land trip research is a good try to reveal the hoax of globe theory.

Oslo - Bergen trip with a high speed train is awesome, but not the official distance which is joking. :')

FlatOrange... the sun's speed is at peak on summer solstice on northern hemiplane. The more north the higher sun speed will be, the more south the lower sun speed will be. The sun speed is variable depending on the radius from south pole. The more distance from south pole, the higher speed of the sun will be. Visa versa.

Proof? The umbra of 2017's America solar eclipse. The umbra speed on America is higher than the equator's sun speed.

Stash, I'm sorry I cannot give a diagram. The situation is not possible yet. I hope your imagination can figure out what I meant about sun reality. It's all about lensing game.

Commercial:

"Try Phew, and You'll Phew" :')

Tom... I suggest you to ask after learning FE models sufficiently.
Phew's sun goes CCW and the sunlight range is not so extent as you described.

Doesn't matter which way the sun goes, it's still got to be visible 7 hours before and after high solar noon at 25 "degrees" outside of the equator.
And at that point, it's still closer to the center, which is dark at that moment.

Fact is, there doesn't seem to be much more information about this phew map other than the crude pencil sketch.

But I'll humor you: Please draw how the sun really shines on your map, then I'll take a look and see if it makes any more sense to me.

Have we got a deal?