If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers

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If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« on: March 07, 2019, 12:45:09 PM »
If I could get the people who narrate those astronomy science shows to come to a meeting with some FEs from here, what would you say to them? Would you patiently explain how they had been brainwashed, or accuse them of being part of the NASA conspiracy?

I couldn't find any youtube video or web page about a face to face meeting, just one video of a FEr skyping with an astronomer. The guy is so bad, if I were the FE community, I would disavow him. For completeness, I will include the link, but I warn you, this FE may be painful even to FEs:



I am thinking the astronomers would say the same things they say when FEs are not present. My real question is whether FEs would sit down, be introduced, and then say the same things they say here.

Would you?

Is it possible for something to be both true and unproven?

Are things that are true and proven any different from things that are true but not proven?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2019, 03:22:11 PM »
I would ask them if they know wtf is wrong with Jimster.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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rabinoz

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2019, 04:38:52 PM »
I would ask them if they know wtf is wrong with Jimster.
And they might say to you,
"Surely you aren't still promoting the flat earth nonsense!
 Astronomers from Aristarchus, Eratosthenes, Ptolemy, Al-Biruni and Tycho Brahe on have shown that to be quite impossible!"

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John Davis

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2019, 08:46:10 AM »
I imagine this would happen:
Quantum Ab Hoc

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rvlvr

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2019, 08:50:00 AM »
Violence is rarely a good solution, but I have to admit I found that satisfying.

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2019, 09:33:40 AM »
I was hoping some FE would say "I would tell those lying NASA conspirators they are despicable liars." or "You scientists don't even understand physics, you are horribly wrong. Let me explain how physics and astronomy work".

There is one woman who often narrates astronomy shows on science channel, phd professor and very sweet person, judging by her smile and enthusiasm for her topic. Seems intelligent. By FE logic, she is either stupid or evil.

I would like to see a FE honestly say the things that are said here, basically call her stupid or evil to her face, not hold back due to social inhibition/good manners or for fear of looking nasty or stupid.
Is it possible for something to be both true and unproven?

Are things that are true and proven any different from things that are true but not proven?

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John Davis

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2019, 09:54:54 AM »
The last time I argued with an astrophysicist in person, a few months ago, it ended up with him admitting he was wrong and that we had no idea how gravity works.

He's not one of those 'pop' physicists that you might know, but never the less, he is actively working in the field. Now, I will say I later found out that he had shoved a few lines of coke down his nozzle before hand. However, that would have, in the experiences I've had with cocaine users, made him less likely to admit fault and more resolute in his beliefs. It did take quite a bit of work to get to that point however, and he continually presented straw men that I didn't hold and asked me to defend their position. Like many cocaine users, his demeanor was that of a vicious attack rather than a civilized discussion on the manner. He would continually claim he was not arguing, while at the same time yelling and pointing fingers.

I found his knowledge in general to be very pointed and specific, at times claiming to know things about philosophy of science that boiled down to the bulleted list he likely picked up in his one undergrad class on the subject at times mixing up authors and notable figures in the movement including basic ones anyone should know like Hume. If it was even slightly outside of his field of study he seemed useless to address these concerns.
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2019, 10:48:39 AM »
https://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/how-the-universe-works/bios/michelle-thaller

What would you say to her? Would you say she lies, she is unqualified, she is brainwashed?

Pretty much everything from day 1 of her career conflicts with FE. If FE, she is a completely delusional incredibly mistaken person.

Could you explain the error of her ways to her?

How do you explain how wrong she is?




Is it possible for something to be both true and unproven?

Are things that are true and proven any different from things that are true but not proven?

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 11:20:06 AM »
The last time I argued with an astrophysicist in person, a few months ago, it ended up with him admitting he was wrong and that we had no idea how gravity works.

He's not one of those 'pop' physicists that you might know, but never the less, he is actively working in the field. Now, I will say I later found out that he had shoved a few lines of coke down his nozzle before hand. However, that would have, in the experiences I've had with cocaine users, made him less likely to admit fault and more resolute in his beliefs. It did take quite a bit of work to get to that point however, and he continually presented straw men that I didn't hold and asked me to defend their position. Like many cocaine users, his demeanor was that of a vicious attack rather than a civilized discussion on the manner. He would continually claim he was not arguing, while at the same time yelling and pointing fingers.

I found his knowledge in general to be very pointed and specific, at times claiming to know things about philosophy of science that boiled down to the bulleted list he likely picked up in his one undergrad class on the subject at times mixing up authors and notable figures in the movement including basic ones anyone should know like Hume. If it was even slightly outside of his field of study he seemed useless to address these concerns.

Itís funny you should say that. The last time I had a discussion with an eminent flat earther it was about his claim that he traveled to a location that was near the rim, but when asked to prove his claim he was unable to do so. I wonder why? Perhaps you could suggest a reason for his silence.

Itís also a fact that no flat earther is able to give any verifiable proof about what they believe in. Never mind asking for an explanation about gravity and exactly how it works, what about asking a flat earther about any topic relating to cosmology and see what you get back.

The difference between cosmology and flat earth belief is that for cosmology, there is a wealth of proven research which is ongoing at any number of astronomical research centres and observatories around the world, while for flat earthers there are a couple of lone wolves who pretend they do research, but are in fact just making stuff up as they go along.

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rvlvr

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2019, 10:09:53 PM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!

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rabinoz

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 10:34:00 PM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!
Maybe because GE has answers and FE doesn't?

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sceptimatic

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2019, 11:14:53 PM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!
Maybe because GE has answers and FE doesn't?
Anyone can have answers. The ability to physically verify those answers is the key to whether something is potentially legitimate or not.
I'd say Flat Earth has more legitimate physical answers than global Earth from a reality point of view that does not require magical thought process.


Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2019, 11:57:58 PM »
Anyone can have answers. The ability to physically verify those answers is the key to whether something is potentially legitimate or not.
I'd say Flat Earth has more legitimate physical answers than global Earth from a reality point of view that does not require magical thought process.

Anyone can have answers- so true, pete and peter, d marble, the guys with the laser gyroscope, avry FE ever.

Meanwhile, RE has a simple answer for the fact that at one moment at 0 longitude the sun is directly overhead, while at the same moment at 180 lonitude, no sun can be seen. At 90, sun on westren horizon, at 270 on the eastern horizon. RE can explain with simple 3d model of a ball and a light. How does FE explain this?
Is it possible for something to be both true and unproven?

Are things that are true and proven any different from things that are true but not proven?

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rvlvr

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2019, 12:25:59 AM »
Magic?

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rabinoz

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2019, 12:26:32 AM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!
Maybe because GE has answers and FE doesn't?
Anyone can have answers.
The ability to physically verify those answers is the key to whether something is potentially legitimate or not.
So why are you unable and/or unwilling to physically verify any of your answers in denpressure and the behaviour of rockets?

Maybe that is why your ideas are so little respected even by many flat-earthers.

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2019, 12:53:03 AM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!
Maybe because GE has answers and FE doesn't?
Anyone can have answers. The ability to physically verify those answers is the key to whether something is potentially legitimate or not.
I'd say Flat Earth has more legitimate physical answers than global Earth from a reality point of view that does not require magical thought process.

You are consistently inconsistent in all of your posts. You make great play in saying you only believe in what you can see, then you turn and make claims about domes and the workings of molecules, neither of which you have seen. You then make nonsensical claims about rocketes which are real, the launches watched live by millions and watched on line by billions.
Flat earth has no legitimate answers, it only has blind belief. The problem is you reject any answers that science presents, not because of its authenticity or truth, but because you donít like it.
Itís been pointed out to you time and time again that the world and all itís technology works on principles that are at odds with your pet idea of denpressure. Your eyes can see on a daily basis, if they cared to look, any number of examples ,but you for your own closed minded reasons prefer to ignore the evidence of your eyes, such is your consistent inconsistency.

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2019, 02:09:49 AM »
if they met someone with knowledge they wouldnt be able to answer anything. i think they purposely go in to try and flabergast people with there idiotic "reasoning" and there like... what! what are you on about, the people are so intelligent that its like looking at an under developed chimpanzee

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rabinoz

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2019, 04:17:24 AM »
if they met someone with knowledge they wouldnt be able to answer anything. i think they purposely go in to try and flabergast people with there idiotic "reasoning" and there like... what! what are you on about, the people are so intelligent that its like looking at an under developed chimpanzee
It is fairly safe to say that every astronomer since Aristarchus of Samos[1] has shown that the all current flat earth models are quite impossible.
The distances to and the motions of the sun and moon are all that is needed for that.

[1] Aristarchus of Samos, (born c. 310 bceódied c. 230 bce), Greek astronomer who maintained that Earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the Sun.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2019, 04:22:41 AM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!
Maybe because GE has answers and FE doesn't?
Anyone can have answers.
The ability to physically verify those answers is the key to whether something is potentially legitimate or not.
So why are you unable and/or unwilling to physically verify any of your answers in denpressure and the behaviour of rockets?

Maybe that is why your ideas are so little respected even by many flat-earthers.
I gave you people the opportunity to physically verify. I can't do it from my side to your side. All I can do is give out the info for those to try and verify for themselves.
I did so and it was rejected....which is fine...but the same situation still stands.

No physical proof is being offered by global or anyone that would be accepted from either side, regardless of my theories which are just one point in a host of theories.

The reality is, side by side, you cannot physically prove anything to back up what you reel of on this forum.
The issue is...who can?

It boils down to taking the best logical arguments, noit the best magical arguments.
Global Earth fails miserably in this. Alternative Earth theories fare miles better on the theory part.

That's about all we can go on and it has to be left to each individual as to what they take from each and every theory in a 100% honest manner.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2019, 04:23:33 AM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!
Maybe because GE has answers and FE doesn't?
Anyone can have answers. The ability to physically verify those answers is the key to whether something is potentially legitimate or not.
I'd say Flat Earth has more legitimate physical answers than global Earth from a reality point of view that does not require magical thought process.

You are consistently inconsistent in all of your posts. You make great play in saying you only believe in what you can see, then you turn and make claims about domes and the workings of molecules, neither of which you have seen. You then make nonsensical claims about rocketes which are real, the launches watched live by millions and watched on line by billions.
Flat earth has no legitimate answers, it only has blind belief. The problem is you reject any answers that science presents, not because of its authenticity or truth, but because you donít like it.
Itís been pointed out to you time and time again that the world and all itís technology works on principles that are at odds with your pet idea of denpressure. Your eyes can see on a daily basis, if they cared to look, any number of examples ,but you for your own closed minded reasons prefer to ignore the evidence of your eyes, such is your consistent inconsistency.
Understand hypothetical. That's all.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2019, 04:25:17 AM »
if they met someone with knowledge they wouldnt be able to answer anything. i think they purposely go in to try and flabergast people with there idiotic "reasoning" and there like... what! what are you on about, the people are so intelligent that its like looking at an under developed chimpanzee
It is fairly safe to say that every astronomer since Aristarchus of Samos[1] has shown that the all current flat earth models are quite impossible.
The distances to and the motions of the sun and moon are all that is needed for that.

[1] Aristarchus of Samos, (born c. 310 bceódied c. 230 bce), Greek astronomer who maintained that Earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the Sun.
What kind of telescope did he have?

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2019, 04:47:08 AM »
Good old RE, always coked up and raring to go!
Maybe because GE has answers and FE doesn't?
Anyone can have answers. The ability to physically verify those answers is the key to whether something is potentially legitimate or not.
I'd say Flat Earth has more legitimate physical answers than global Earth from a reality point of view that does not require magical thought process.

you can physically verify the answers of a globe earth. nobody can and will ever be able to verify a flat earth because you cant verify something that doesnt exist

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rabinoz

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2019, 05:03:48 AM »
if they met someone with knowledge they wouldnt be able to answer anything. i think they purposely go in to try and flabergast people with there idiotic "reasoning" and there like... what! what are you on about, the people are so intelligent that its like looking at an under developed chimpanzee
It is fairly safe to say that every astronomer since Aristarchus of Samos[1] has shown that the all current flat earth models are quite impossible.
The distances to and the motions of the sun and moon are all that is needed for that.

[1] Aristarchus of Samos, (born c. 310 bceódied c. 230 bce), Greek astronomer who maintained that Earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the Sun.
What kind of telescope did he have?
Only mark I Greek eyeballs aided by a quadrant and a good brain! Here is a brief potted version of some of his work.

They knew that the sun and moon were a great distance away because neither change in angular size from rising to setting.
And they knew that the sun was further away than the moon because the moon came between the sun at the time of a solar eclipse.

In about 270 BC he estimated the distance to the moon from a solar eclipse and his figure is in good agreement with the modern figure.

Then Aristarchus went a step further and saw from the angles of the sun and moon when the moon was half illuminated that the moon was much further away than the moon.

From both of these measurements and knowing that the angular size of the sun was about 1/720 of a circle he deduced that the sun had to be much larger than the earth.
So he considered in more logical for the smaller earth (and planets) to orbit the sun than the other way around.

Others of his day, however, argued quite reasonably that if the earth did orbit the sun then the "fixed stars" would be observed to move and they did not appear to move throughout the year.
So Aristarchus's Heliocentric Solar System was discarded for some 1800 years.

And the reason that no parallax could be observed at the time was not that Aristarchus was wrong but because at the time no one could conceive that the "fixed stars" could be so far away - over 4 light years.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2019, 05:50:38 AM »
you can (not)physically verify the answers of a globe earth. nobody can and will ever be able to verify a flat global earth because you cant verify something that doesnt exist
Fair point.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2019, 05:57:22 AM »
if they met someone with knowledge they wouldnt be able to answer anything. i think they purposely go in to try and flabergast people with there idiotic "reasoning" and there like... what! what are you on about, the people are so intelligent that its like looking at an under developed chimpanzee
It is fairly safe to say that every astronomer since Aristarchus of Samos[1] has shown that the all current flat earth models are quite impossible.
The distances to and the motions of the sun and moon are all that is needed for that.

[1] Aristarchus of Samos, (born c. 310 bceódied c. 230 bce), Greek astronomer who maintained that Earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the Sun.
What kind of telescope did he have?
Only mark I Greek eyeballs aided by a quadrant and a good brain! Here is a brief potted version of some of his work.

They knew that the sun and moon were a great distance away because neither change in angular size from rising to setting.
And they knew that the sun was further away than the moon because the moon came between the sun at the time of a solar eclipse.

In about 270 BC he estimated the distance to the moon from a solar eclipse and his figure is in good agreement with the modern figure.

Then Aristarchus went a step further and saw from the angles of the sun and moon when the moon was half illuminated that the moon was much further away than the moon.

From both of these measurements and knowing that the angular size of the sun was about 1/720 of a circle he deduced that the sun had to be much larger than the earth.
So he considered in more logical for the smaller earth (and planets) to orbit the sun than the other way around.

Others of his day, however, argued quite reasonably that if the earth did orbit the sun then the "fixed stars" would be observed to move and they did not appear to move throughout the year.
So Aristarchus's Heliocentric Solar System was discarded for some 1800 years.

And the reason that no parallax could be observed at the time was not that Aristarchus was wrong but because at the time no one could conceive that the "fixed stars" could be so far away - over 4 light years.
But he saw the so called setting sun as far bigger than the noon sun.
What was this due to?
I have it down to optical magnification of the atmosphere from horizontal to vertical.

How many times have people said " wow look at the size of the moon" or " look at the size of the setting sun"....?

It does optically change, so what this bloke was seeing in 200 and odd AD is  not really anything, because I'm willing to bet there's no verification of his work, right?
No physical proof he ever done anything, right?
Unless you're clued right up on thi...are you?

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2019, 05:58:21 AM »
you can (not)physically verify the answers of a globe earth. nobody can and will ever be able to verify a flat global earth because you cant verify something that doesnt exist
Fair point.

hahaha classic flat earther. cant provide a single shred of proof for anything so just dismiss everything. theres a reason why scholars of the past moved away from any form of a flat earth because it didnt fit with there observations. the whole point of science is to evolve the understanding of stuff, you lot are trying to devolve science.

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rabinoz

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2019, 02:52:36 PM »
if they met someone with knowledge they wouldnt be able to answer anything. i think they purposely go in to try and flabergast people with there idiotic "reasoning" and there like... what! what are you on about, the people are so intelligent that its like looking at an under developed chimpanzee
It is fairly safe to say that every astronomer since Aristarchus of Samos[1] has shown that the all current flat earth models are quite impossible.
The distances to and the motions of the sun and moon are all that is needed for that.

[1] Aristarchus of Samos, (born c. 310 bceódied c. 230 bce), Greek astronomer who maintained that Earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the Sun.
What kind of telescope did he have?
Only mark I Greek eyeballs aided by a quadrant and a good brain! Here is a brief potted version of some of his work.

They knew that the sun and moon were a great distance away because neither change in angular size from rising to setting.
And they knew that the sun was further away than the moon because the moon came between the sun at the time of a solar eclipse.

In about 270 BC he estimated the distance to the moon from a solar eclipse and his figure is in good agreement with the modern figure.

Then Aristarchus went a step further and saw from the angles of the sun and moon when the moon was half illuminated that the moon was much further away than the moon.

From both of these measurements and knowing that the angular size of the sun was about 1/720 of a circle he deduced that the sun had to be much larger than the earth.
So he considered in more logical for the smaller earth (and planets) to orbit the sun than the other way around.

Others of his day, however, argued quite reasonably that if the earth did orbit the sun then the "fixed stars" would be observed to move and they did not appear to move throughout the year.
So Aristarchus's Heliocentric Solar System was discarded for some 1800 years.

And the reason that no parallax could be observed at the time was not that Aristarchus was wrong but because at the time no one could conceive that the "fixed stars" could be so far away - over 4 light years.
But he saw the so called setting sun as far bigger than the noon sun.
Learn to read what is written then I might take the time to answer your questions. What I wrote was:
They knew that the sun and moon were a great distance away because neither change in angular size from rising to setting.
I did NOT write, "he saw the so called setting sun as far bigger than the noon sun" and I crossed out "so called" because anyone can SEE the sun appear to rise and set!

Surely no one can deny that?

Sunrise - Black Sea HD, kalcymc
         
Spendid Green Flash - Sunset 18 fev 2015, hoporion
I see and take photos like this:

LHG-0693 - Sunset Karumba 20070808 06.25.02, 300 mm
       
LHG-0697 - Sunset Karumba 20070808 06.25.29, 300 mm

And I naturally think that the sun is really being hidden behind something, the horizon.

Then there is a keen Flat Earther, Matrix Decode, who takes good photos and videos showing that the sun and moon do not change in angular size from rising (or not long after) to setting (or not long before).
take a look at:

Flat Earth - The Size Of The Sun, Matrix Decode
     
Flat Earth - The Size Of The Moon, Matrix Decode

Sceppy, please open your eyes and really SEE the real world around you!

Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2019, 03:46:59 AM »
If I could get the people who narrate those astronomy science shows to come to a meeting with some FEs from here, what would you say to them? Would you patiently explain how they had been brainwashed, or accuse them of being part of the NASA conspiracy?

I couldn't find any youtube video or web page about a face to face meeting, just one video of a FEr skyping with an astronomer. The guy is so bad, if I were the FE community, I would disavow him. For completeness, I will include the link, but I warn you, this FE may be painful even to FEs:



I am thinking the astronomers would say the same things they say when FEs are not present. My real question is whether FEs would sit down, be introduced, and then say the same things they say here.

Would you?
My vote is Johannes Kepler and Tycho Brahe 😀
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Danang

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2019, 05:22:41 AM »
1-0

TRY: (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map and Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

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sceptimatic

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Re: If FEs had a meeting with famous astronomers
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2019, 06:33:59 AM »