Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites

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Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« on: March 04, 2019, 03:14:29 AM »
Hi all,

I've been looking into different aspects of the flat earth theory.  I was wondering how flat earthers would explain viewing satellites and the ISS using a telescopes.  I've seen several reports of this and is not something that is not making sense to me from  a flat earth perspective. 

Thanks

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 03:18:17 PM »
There's this video

 

But should you really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 12:24:38 AM by mystic28 »

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 05:34:08 PM »

But you should really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?


I agree. You should.

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rabinoz

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 05:52:52 PM »
There's this video

 

But you should really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?
The ISS is travelling at 7.667 km/s but it is about 400 km high, so the slant distance might be more than 600 km.
The ISS has often been photographed transiting the moon (or less often sun) and they take up width of about 0.5° in the sky.
That 0.5° is about 5.2 km at that 600 km distance. So the ISS would take about 0.7 sec to transit the moon.

Many photographers find the exact position on the ground where the transit can be seen from and find the exact time of transit.
Then they start videoing a few seconds before the predicted time and cross their fingers!

And that is what Reds Rhetoric would have done. He did not get a perfectly central transit but not bad for an amateur ;).

The other satellites that are not too hard to photograph are those in geostationary orbit that are used for communications (sat phones and data links) and direct satellite TV.
Since these are almost stationary over the equator just pointing a camera of telescope at the right position will find them.
Amateur astronomers are used to doing that sort of thing and here are a couple of examples:
You can see the most of the satellites lined up along the earth's equator, and the others are following analemmas, as geosynchronous satellites do.  Each of these satellites can be tied to a specific launch.  They can't be natural satellites, because they only started appearing when we started launching them, and they are in orbits that were carefully chosen for their intended purpose, as are all artificial satellites.  It's much easier to observe lower satellites, though.  Geostationary satellites are too far away to get anything but a faint image.
Some see the significance of those "little lights in the sky", and some are so close minded and blinkered that they mean nothing!

Then there is this sort of thing. Note that geostationary satellites are not quite stationary, they move in small "figure of eights::

Astra geostationary satellites through telescope
On the first photo the satellites show as no more than almost stationary tiny white dots but the video is through a telescope and shows them larger and makes their slight movement easy to see.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2019, 09:00:35 PM »
Those satellites are haulin' ass!   ;D


RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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rabinoz

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2019, 11:35:09 PM »
Those satellites are haulin' ass!   ;D


Really? The streaks in your copy-'n-paste image are stars that sure are "haulin' ass" but the satellites are the minute almost stationary white dots.
Some are hard to see but BADR-4/5/6, EUTELSAT 21B and some others are quite visible.

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The_Heeter

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2019, 05:40:43 AM »
Hi all,

I've been looking into different aspects of the flat earth theory.  I was wondering how flat earthers would explain viewing satellites and the ISS using a telescopes.  I've seen several reports of this and is not something that is not making sense to me from  a flat earth perspective. 

Thanks

I have seen the ISS above my house multiple times, with my naked eyes and also with binoculars. No further proof needed for me. I've had discussions with flat earthers who don't believe in satellites or the ISS who are sort of at a loss for words when it comes to this. One such person was Jake the A**hole, a conspiracy youtuber some on this forum may be familiar with. Upon debunking his claim that satellites can't be seen from the ground with photo evidence and personal experience... he deleted my comment.

It doesn't make sense from a flat earth perspective because the flat earth theory doesn't make sense.
Globe earth is the ONLY earth

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 06:56:58 AM »
Those satellites are haulin' ass!   ;D


Really? The streaks in your copy-'n-paste image are stars that sure are "haulin' ass" but the satellites are the minute almost stationary white dots.
Some are hard to see but BADR-4/5/6, EUTELSAT 21B and some others are quite visible.

Why do you say the white dots are "stationary"? According to RE physics, they're the satellites and are "haulin' ass" at close to 2 miles/second against the background of fixed stars while the camera rotates to keep them in the same place in frame. Bullwinkle was reiterating the RE position that the satellites are haulin' ass and not talking about the video's moving streaks. Just as you wouldn't say "the ground really hauls ass away from the camera in this video."



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rabinoz

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 04:11:20 PM »
Those satellites are haulin' ass!   ;D


Really? The streaks in your copy-'n-paste image are stars that sure are "haulin' ass" but the satellites are the minute almost stationary white dots.
Some are hard to see but BADR-4/5/6, EUTELSAT 21B and some others are quite visible.

Why do you say the white dots are "stationary"? According to RE physics, they're the satellites and are "haulin' ass" at close to 2 miles/second against the background of fixed stars while the camera rotates to keep them in the same place in frame. Bullwinkle was reiterating the RE position that the satellites are haulin' ass and not talking about the video's moving streaks. Just as you wouldn't say "the ground really hauls ass away from the camera in this video."


A satellite above the equator at an altitude of 35,768 km orbits at 3074.66 m/s with a period of 23.93446 hours.
Since the earth rotates with a period of 23.93446 hours those satellites appear stationary relative to an observer on earth.

That's why they are called geostationary satellites and why they are so useful for communications and direct TV broadcasting.

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2019, 05:59:53 AM »
Those satellites are haulin' ass!   ;D


Really? The streaks in your copy-'n-paste image are stars that sure are "haulin' ass" but the satellites are the minute almost stationary white dots.
Some are hard to see but BADR-4/5/6, EUTELSAT 21B and some others are quite visible.

Why do you say the white dots are "stationary"? According to RE physics, they're the satellites and are "haulin' ass" at close to 2 miles/second against the background of fixed stars while the camera rotates to keep them in the same place in frame. Bullwinkle was reiterating the RE position that the satellites are haulin' ass and not talking about the video's moving streaks. Just as you wouldn't say "the ground really hauls ass away from the camera in this video."


A satellite above the equator at an altitude of 35,768 km orbits at 3074.66 m/s with a period of 23.93446 hours.
Since the earth rotates with a period of 23.93446 hours those satellites appear stationary relative to an observer on earth.

That's why they are called geostationary satellites and why they are so useful for communications and direct TV broadcasting.

Difference between "appears" and "is". Plus it helps to read the entire post and not just kneejeek an answer.

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2019, 07:49:48 AM »
I agree. You should read the whole thread before claiming that he thinks the satellites aren’t moving.

I claim no such thing.

Those satellites are haulin' ass!   ;D

Yes they are. While they appear stationary, they are moving at ~2 miles/sec.

Really? The streaks in your copy-'n-paste image are stars that sure are "haulin' ass" but the satellites are the minute almost stationary white dots.

No. The stars appear to move very slowly over the course of the night, speeded up in this video. The satellites are not stationary, but are moving at ~2 miles/second. They appear stationary. Hence my comment "difference between 'appears' and 'is'."

I never claimed that rabinoz thinks the satellites aren't moving. I asked why he said they were "almost stationary." Questions aren't claims.

My comment about a kneejerk answer is in response to rabinoz regurgitating values with an overly-impressive number of significant digits rather than address what I wrote.

Maybe you need some remedial education as well.

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hoppy

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2019, 01:11:38 PM »

But you should really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?


I agree. You should.
Do you think you should be able to see something the size of a bus from 254 miles?
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2019, 01:42:59 PM »

But you should really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?


I agree. You should.
Do you think you should be able to see something the size of a bus from 254 miles?

Sure.  If you mean seeing a speck of reflected light against a black background.  I wouldn’t expect to resolve any detail without some serious magnification though.

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2019, 01:47:04 PM »

But you should really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?


I agree. You should.
Do you think you should be able to see something the size of a bus from 254 miles?

Certainly.

"Seeing" in this case means "detecting photons from." The angular size of the source is irrelevant.

Call your bus 27 feet long. At 254 miles it subtends 20 microradians.

If I have a single mode optical fiber with a core diameter of 4 microns, that subtends the same 20 microradian angle at a distance of 8 inches. From personal experience I know that I can see the light from that 4 micron diameter source from 20-30-40 even 100 feet away, as long as the source is bright and the room is dark.

Could I tell the difference between one large bus or two small buses that were 10 bus-lengths apart? Of course not.

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Lonegranger

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2019, 02:51:28 PM »

But you should really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?


I agree. You should.
Do you think you should be able to see something the size of a bus from 254 miles?

I think you could easily answer your own question by going out and looking. Just like you can see the reflection from a small mirror on a distant hillside, one can see the reflection off the ISS if the conditions are right.
Zen and the art of turd polishing.

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2019, 10:27:22 PM »

But you should really be able to see something that's travelling 10 times faster than  speeding bullet?


I agree. You should.
Do you think you should be able to see something the size of a bus from 254 miles?

I think you could easily answer your own question by going out and looking. Just like you can see the reflection from a small mirror on a distant hillside, one can see the reflection off the ISS if the conditions are right.

Actual real world observations are not hoppy's strong suit.

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2019, 12:16:57 AM »
Stop stop. Where are the GPS satellites? Why are they not visible? They also had to get into the camera! You will not find any pictures, GPS satellites - which move along the meridians. And you after this - still claim that the earth is a ball?

Are you sure that the earth is not such?

Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2019, 12:27:11 AM »
Stop stop. Where are the GPS satellites? Why are they not visible? They also had to get into the camera! You will not find any pictures, GPS satellites - which move along the meridians. And you after this - still claim that the earth is a ball?

Did you read any of the above thread at all? Including the pictures showing you the gps satellites against a background of moving stars?

The stars seem to be "hauling ass" and the satellites are not because they are more or less stationary avove the ground. Satellites and ground are moving at the same rate in comparison to the stars hence the relative motion in the gif image.

But let me guess, "it's fake! Fake I tell ya!! Faaaake!!!"

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rabinoz

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2019, 12:32:42 AM »
Stop stop. Where are the GPS satellites? Why are they not visible? They also had to get into the camera! You will not find any pictures, GPS satellites - which move along the meridians. And you after this - still claim that the earth is a ball?
Why would you expect them to be seen? 
GPS satellites are in orbits at 55° from the equator at an altitude of about 20,200 km and at a velocity of about 3735 m/s.

Those geostationary satellites are visible only because the seem stationary to a person on the rotating earth.

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2019, 03:27:31 AM »
rabinoz ... as always you turned everything upside down. And so always when those who believe in the ball have no answers.

Are you sure that the earth is not such?

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2019, 03:32:32 AM »
Quote
Did you read any of the above thread at all? Including the pictures showing you the gps satellites against a background of moving stars?

The stars seem to be "hauling ass" and the satellites are not because they are more or less stationary avove the ground. Satellites and ground are moving at the same rate in comparison to the stars hence the relative motion in the gif image.

But let me guess, "it's fake! Fake I tell ya!! Faaaake!!!"

I not only read but also published a photo of how satellites move across the sky. All satellites move only along the equator, there are no satellites moving along the meridian in any video.

Are you sure that the earth is not such?

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rabinoz

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2019, 03:47:33 AM »
rabinoz ... as always you turned everything upside down. And so always when those who believe in the ball have no answers.
What did I turn upside down?

And what is it that "those who believe" the earth is a Globe in the ball have no answers" for?

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rabinoz

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2019, 04:11:06 AM »
Quote
Did you read any of the above thread at all? Including the pictures showing you the gps satellites against a background of moving stars?

The stars seem to be "hauling ass" and the satellites are not because they are more or less stationary avove the ground. Satellites and ground are moving at the same rate in comparison to the stars hence the relative motion in the gif image.

But let me guess, "it's fake! Fake I tell ya!! Faaaake!!!"

I not only read but also published a photo of how satellites move across the sky. All satellites move only along the equator, there are no satellites moving along the meridian in any video.
By no means all satellites move "along the equator". Where did you get that from?
As I said before, the orbits of GPS satellites are inclined at 55 degrees to the equator and the orbit of the ISS is inclined at 51.6 degrees to the equator.

I don't care what's in any video. satellites can be and are in polar orbits and these very nearly orbit along meridians of longitude.

Read:
Quote from: European Space Agency
Types of Orbits
Polar Orbits
As the name suggests, polar orbits pass over the Earth’s polar regions from north to south. The orbital track of the satellite does not have to cross the poles exactly for an orbit to be called polar, an orbit which passes within 20 to 30 degrees of the poles is still classed as a polar orbit.

These orbits mainly take place at low altitudes of between 200 to 1000 km. Satellites in polar orbit look down on the Earth’s entire surface and can pass over the North and South Poles several times a day.

Polar orbits are used for reconnaissance and Earth observation. If a satellite is in polar orbit at an altitude of 800 km, it will be travelling at a speed of approximately 7.5 km per second.
       Polar Orbiting Environmental Satellites (POES)
      #29. Polar Orbiting Satellites



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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2019, 09:36:00 AM »


I think the answers are here. No one has yet provided images of satellites moving in the direction of the poles during sky radar, perhaps because. that radar shows the true state of things. The real value of the sun, moon and satellite position above us.

Are you sure that the earth is not such?

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Stash

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2019, 10:54:42 AM »

I think the answers are here. No one has yet provided images of satellites moving in the direction of the poles during sky radar, perhaps because. that radar shows the true state of things. The real value of the sun, moon and satellite position above us.

As far as non-geostationary satellites like GPS, the brighter the satellite, the easier to see. Here’s a Japanese one called the “Disco Ball” (Official name ‘EGP’). It’s covered with mirrors so it’s relatively easy to spot.



Here’s an image of it from earth:



EGP is in a nearly circular orbit at an altitude of approximately 1488 km, close to the (not firmly defined) boundary between low earth orbit and medium earth orbit. The orbital period is 116 minutes, and the orbital inclination is 50 degrees.

Here’s its orbit:



If you want to see more, these are some of the brightest...Here’s a list of satellites to get your started on your adventures away from the ISS:
Lacrosse 5 R/B (rocket body)
Atlas-Centaur R/B (multiple rocket bodies in orbit)
Terra
Cosmos R/B (multiple rocket bodies in orbit)
BREEZE-M Debris Tank
Mayak (good luck!)
SL-16 R/B (multiple rocket bodies in orbit)
Tiangong-1 and Tiangong-2 (Chinese prototype space stations, both as bright as magnitude 1.5 )
The pair of TerraSar-X and Tandem-X
Hubble Space Telescope / HST (for observers in the southern U.S.)
ERS-1
Aqua (Terra's counterpart)
Envisat
H2-A R/B (rocket body from November 2009 launch of IGS-Optical 3 satellite)
Cosmo-Skymed 1 (#31598)
USA 267 (#41334)
USA 215 (#37162)
Okean O (#25860)
You can also pick from Celestrak's List of 100 (or so) Brightest Satellites

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2019, 11:10:10 AM »
 repeat once again - for the gifted.
I am not talking about visual observation of satellites !!! How many times can you just ignore my words? And talk about something else ??
Is this a reluctance to speak on uncomfortable topics? Then why did you come here? To talk nonsense about satellites?
Read carefully the posts. I think. that this community is for people like us who believe that the earth is flat. And you who believe in the ball will have to explain the inconvenient facts that you have. And do not impose your opinion, as you are constantly doing here.

Are you sure that the earth is not such?

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Stash

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2019, 11:37:24 AM »
repeat once again - for the gifted.
I am not talking about visual observation of satellites !!! How many times can you just ignore my words? And talk about something else ??
Is this a reluctance to speak on uncomfortable topics? Then why did you come here? To talk nonsense about satellites?
Read carefully the posts. I think. that this community is for people like us who believe that the earth is flat. And you who believe in the ball will have to explain the inconvenient facts that you have. And do not impose your opinion, as you are constantly doing here.

The title of this thread is "Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites".

The OP asks, "I was wondering how flat earthers would explain viewing satellites and the ISS using a telescopes."

One of your responses was:

Stop stop. Where are the GPS satellites? Why are they not visible? They also had to get into the camera! You will not find any pictures, GPS satellites - which move along the meridians. And you after this - still claim that the earth is a ball?

I posted an image of a satellite that can be seen orbiting, non-geostationary. as well gave you information as to what are the brightest ones to be viewed via a telescope. If you think providing evidence/information you were seeking is imposing an opinion, then so be it.

Why don't you provide some information/evidence that GPS satellites don't exist and impose your own opinion instead of complaining about I'm not sure what.



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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2019, 12:24:31 PM »
That's right. Satellites, we visually see, there is no doubt. At the same time, we see flashes of light from satellites moving in different directions in the sky - this is a fact. Which is confirmed by many, even have a photo. But you forget that in context - all this is not proof that the earth is a ball !!! Also, the data from the ISS on the photo do not coincide in coordinates with the photos that are presented - that’s a fact. This is not understandable if you try to calculate everything according to NASA.
It makes no sense to talk about visual observations of satellites in a curved space. Passing it as confirmation that the earth is a ball.

Are you sure that the earth is not such?

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2019, 12:36:13 PM »
Next, you ask for an explanation - how can you explain the apparent presence of satellites. This is the radar, which does not show many satellites in their orbits.
I'm talking about radar as an explanation - you ignore it, referring to the fact that the topic is only about visual confirmation of the satellites. It is equivalent to what to say about how to explain the three-dimensional space from the position of two-dimensional. Then why talk about radiolocation, if we see all these satellites through telescopes, then there is no point in talking about flat land. It is not interesting.

Are you sure that the earth is not such?

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sokarul

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Re: Telescopes and Viewing the ISS and satellites
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2019, 01:24:43 PM »
..This is the radar, which does not show many satellites in their orbits.
...
What is your source for this?
Sokarul

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