Speed of light

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Speed of light
« on: January 15, 2007, 08:55:08 AM »
Hi,

I'm new to this and maybe this has already been brought up, or just too boring to discuss, but I'm curious as to the flat earth believers views on the speed of light and whether or not traveling faster than it is possible. If my quick calculations are correct and the earths gravity is due to an acceleration then for every 1000 years, the earth increases its speed by over 300 million kms per second, about 1000 times the speed of light!!! Maybe i'm missing something here.... please help.

Thanks

Speed of light
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2007, 08:57:42 AM »
just found the sticky......

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Tom Bishop

Speed of light
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2007, 09:01:43 AM »
According to relativity, objects cannot be accelerated to the speed of light, but can continue to infinitesimally approach it.

Speed of light
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2007, 09:01:52 AM »
Well, your calculations are off.

Speed of light ~= 300,000,000 m/s
Velocity = Acceleration * time
300,000,000 = 9.8 * t
300,000,000 / 9.8 = t
t = 30,612,244 seconds = 354.308 days

So about one year after existance, the earth would be travelling at the speed of light.

Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
According to relativity, objects cannot be accelerated to the speed of light, but can continue to infinitely approach it.

No.
Proof that the FE model is bogus (read through the thread, or skip to page five for the math):
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7929&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

?

Tom Bishop

Speed of light
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2007, 09:02:48 AM »
You don't understand relativity.

Speed of light
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2007, 09:07:02 AM »
Well, your calculations are off.

Speed of light ~= 300,000,000 m/s
Velocity = Acceleration * time
300,000,000 = 9.8 * t
300,000,000 / 9.8 = t
t = 30,612,244 seconds = 354.308 days

So about one year after existance, the earth would be travelling at the speed of light.
                     TIMEWARP

*sorry dont know just how to quote properly yet*

so after 1000 years it would be 1000 times the speed of light....

your correct i don't fully understand relativity

Speed of light
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2007, 09:08:11 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
You don't understand relativity.

You don't.

As speed increases, so does mass. As an object approaches c, it becomes infinitely massive, requiring an infinite amount of energy to continue accelerating.
Proof that the FE model is bogus (read through the thread, or skip to page five for the math):
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7929&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Speed of light
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2007, 09:12:10 AM »
Tom, if your still there and can explain it in simple terms... can you explain time dilation due to the differing graviational pull at different altitudes? if the earth is accelerating and gravity does not exist how is this possible?

Speed of light
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2007, 09:12:26 AM »
Hold on, why are FE'ers trusting people involved with the conspiracy? According to the FE philosophy, you cannot trust in relativity.
Proof that the FE model is bogus (read through the thread, or skip to page five for the math):
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7929&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

?

Tom Bishop

Speed of light
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 09:12:48 AM »
I've always held that the acceleration of the earth is caused by the Big Bang, which is still happening. All along the way the entire earth and its populous is increasing in mass.

This also explains the visual acceleration of the universe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_universe

Why couldn't the Big Bang have unlimited energy?

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Tom Bishop

Speed of light
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 09:14:51 AM »
Quote from: "Come_on....."
Tom, if your still there and can explain it in simple terms... can you explain time dilation due to the differing graviational pull at different altitudes? if the earth is accelerating and gravity does not exist how is this possible?


This question is left unexplained in FE.

Edit: Time dilation is caused by moving in a different frame of reference.

Speed of light
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2007, 09:15:34 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
I've always held that the acceleration of the earth is caused by the Big Bang, which is still happening. All along the way the entire earth and its populous is increasing in mass.

This also explains the visual acceleration of the universe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_universe

Why couldn't the Big Bang have unlimited energy?

So now you believe in the big bang? A theory put out by "conspirators"?

Besides, if there was infinite energy, then there was also infinite mass. You cannot contain infinite mass in a finite point.
Proof that the FE model is bogus (read through the thread, or skip to page five for the math):
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7929&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

?

EnragedPenguin

  • The Elder Ones
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Speed of light
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2007, 09:15:41 AM »
Fear not! All is explained here. This question is raised quite fequently. Just remember that all motion (including the effects produced by this motion) is relative.
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

Speed of light
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2007, 09:16:19 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote from: "Come_on....."
Tom, if your still there and can explain it in simple terms... can you explain time dilation due to the differing graviational pull at different altitudes? if the earth is accelerating and gravity does not exist how is this possible?


This question is left unexplained in FE.

AHA!

The mark of a good theory indeed. :roll:
Proof that the FE model is bogus (read through the thread, or skip to page five for the math):
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7929&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Speed of light
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2007, 09:20:50 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Quote from: Come_on.....
Tom, if your still there and can explain it in simple terms... can you explain time dilation due to the differing graviational pull at different altitudes? if the earth is accelerating and gravity does not exist how is this possible?


Time dilation is caused by moving in a different frame of reference.




your correct, but a satalite in a geostationary orbit, which is not moving relative to a stationary observer will still undergo time dialation

?

Tom Bishop

Speed of light
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2007, 09:25:53 AM »
Quote from: "Come_on....."
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote from: "Come_on....."
Tom, if your still there and can explain it in simple terms... can you explain time dilation due to the differing graviational pull at different altitudes? if the earth is accelerating and gravity does not exist how is this possible?


Time dilation is caused by moving in a different frame of reference.




your correct, but a satalite in a geostationary orbit, which is not moving relative to a stationary observer will still undergo time dialation


Geostationary orbit does not exist in FE as result of a flat earth.

Speed of light
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2007, 09:31:27 AM »
refering to tom statement that geo orbits do not exist in FE....

what if i travelled around the earth relative to the orbit of the satalite so it appeared to me as being geostationary... time dialtion would still occur

Speed of light
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2007, 09:32:51 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote from: "Come_on....."
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote from: "Come_on....."
Tom, if your still there and can explain it in simple terms... can you explain time dilation due to the differing graviational pull at different altitudes? if the earth is accelerating and gravity does not exist how is this possible?


Time dilation is caused by moving in a different frame of reference.




your correct, but a satalite in a geostationary orbit, which is not moving relative to a stationary observer will still undergo time dialation


Geostationary orbit does not exist in FE as result of a flat earth.

Proof??
Its easy to say "doesnt exist"
Everybody can do it, believe me!

?

Tom Bishop

Speed of light
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2007, 09:37:41 AM »
Quote from: "Come_on....."
refering to tom statement that geo orbits do not exist in FE....

what if i travelled around the earth relative to the orbit of the satalite so it appeared to me as being geostationary... time dialtion would still occur


I am maintaining that time dilation would not occur.

Quote
Proof??


Gravity does not exist in most Flat Earth models.

Speed of light
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2007, 09:39:47 AM »
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"
Fear not! All is explained here. This question is raised quite fequently. Just remember that all motion (including the effects produced by this motion) is relative.


Again, you can't pick and choose which parts of relativity you want to agree with. Gravity is an important part of general relativity
Proof that the FE model is bogus (read through the thread, or skip to page five for the math):
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7929&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Speed of light
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2007, 09:57:11 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote
Proof??


Gravity does not exist in most Flat Earth models.


That convinces only the FEs.
You need proof to convince the most people that gravity doesnt exist. Scientific proof..

Speed of light
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2007, 09:57:30 AM »
tom if you are maintaining that time dilation would not occur then you do not understand relativity either.... time dialtion is a proven fact

?

Tom Bishop

Speed of light
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2007, 10:03:51 AM »
Quote from: "silvermoon"
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote
Proof??


Gravity does not exist in most Flat Earth models.


That convinces only the FEs.
You need proof to convince the most people that gravity doesnt exist. Scientific proof..


Due to the General Theory of Relativity, that "gravitational force" you feel could actually be the acceleration of the Earth; you jump up, and the accelerating Earth smashes into you as you lose your acceleration due to air resistance. General Relativity states that accelerating reference frames and frames undergoing gravitational attraction are indistinguishable.

Quote
tom if you are maintaining that time dilation would not occur then you do not understand relativity either.... time dialtion is a proven fact


Time dilation between the earth and a satellite at geostationary orbit is not a proven fact.

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EnragedPenguin

  • The Elder Ones
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Speed of light
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2007, 10:04:16 AM »
Quote from: "timewarp"

Again, you can't pick and choose which parts of relativity you want to agree with. Gravity is an important part of general relativity


Who said anything about General Relativity? Eramus' explanation in that post deals exclusively with Special Relativity.
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

Speed of light
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2007, 10:23:13 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote from: "silvermoon"
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote
Proof??


Gravity does not exist in most Flat Earth models.


That convinces only the FEs.
You need proof to convince the most people that gravity doesnt exist. Scientific proof..


Due to the General Theory of Relativity, that "gravitational force" you feel could actually be the acceleration of the Earth; you jump up, and the accelerating Earth smashes into you as you lose your acceleration due to air resistance. General Relativity states that accelerating reference frames and frames undergoing gravitational attraction are indistinguishable.

This is no scientific proof, its only a thought
Similar, I could make my own and suppose an undiscovered force which acts from heaven to earth and pushes me back on this...In this construct, the earth doesnt need to accelerate..

*

TheEngineer

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Speed of light
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2007, 11:56:48 AM »
Quote from: "Come_on....."

your correct, but a satalite in a geostationary orbit, which is not moving relative to a stationary observer will still undergo time dialation

If the observer is moving at the same rate as the satellite, they will not feel time dialation relative to one another.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Speed of light
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2007, 12:00:36 PM »
they will experience time dialation due to the different graviational pulls observed

Speed of light
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2007, 12:01:40 PM »
that change would be negligible though. the relativist effects of gravity are EXTREMELY small. we couldn't even measure it if the relative velocity is equal

Speed of light
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2007, 12:05:02 PM »
very small indeed but detectable.... have a look at the results of Hefele and Keating's experiment in 1971

Speed of light
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2007, 12:09:32 PM »
awesome, i learn something new every day