If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth

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If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth

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Crutchwater

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  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 03:47:48 AM »
It has a lampshade
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 06:37:40 AM »
It has a lampshade

Or a spot light that always looks like a ball.

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Danang

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  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 06:46:15 AM »
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.
TRY: Phew = 3.17157 (for C) and (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map and Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

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Crutchwater

  • 2139
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 07:11:55 AM »
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.

Demonstrably incorrect.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Danang

  • 3608
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2019, 08:58:06 AM »
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.

Demonstrably incorrect.

Thank you... but please type it correctly >> "In Correct" :')
TRY: Phew = 3.17157 (for C) and (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map and Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 10:49:05 AM »
It has a lampshade
............And the thickness of the atmoplane.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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Stash

  • 3745
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 04:38:13 PM »
If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth

According to this visual, you would see the sun all the time:

No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20113
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2019, 01:56:50 AM »
If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth

According to this visual, you would see the sun all the time:



Nope. Because of light refraction you never see the sun at actual point.



Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2019, 02:01:50 AM »
Nope. Because of light refraction you never see the sun at actual point.
Refraction still allows you to see the sun at a point, but higher than where it should be. This wouldn't prevent people from seeing the sun on a flat Earth.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2019, 03:38:16 AM »
If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
because the sun rotates around it and when it has gone out of view it is because it has gone under the edge.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2019, 12:55:55 PM »
because the sun rotates around it and when it has gone out of view it is because it has gone under the edge.
So you go for the old school FE model where the sun goes below Earth?
In that case everywhere would have the same timezone, whereas in reality the sun is visible at different locations at different times.

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rabinoz

  • 24329
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2019, 02:57:21 PM »
because the sun rotates around it and when it has gone out of view it is because it has gone under the edge.
So you go for the old school FE model where the sun goes below Earth?
In that case everywhere would have the same timezone, whereas in reality the sun is visible at different locations at different times.
That sounds like Sandokhan's "cosmology" from "The Book of the Luminaries":
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1952743#msg1952743

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1651574#msg1651574

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1726000#msg1726000



Many of the chapters of the book of Enoch have been falsified at a later date: the chapters which included the true details about the apocalypse were removed, and replaced with texts which were not part of the original narrative.

True chapters: 4-9 (with the exception of the Mt. Hermon reference), 10, 14-36, 39-63, 66-70, 71-83 (book of the Luminaries), 93-104.
Here's a bit more on Enoch The Book of Enoch and the Flat Earth by Dr. Danny R. Faulkner on March 11, 2018
And the relevant chapter in THE BOOK OF THE COURSES OF THE HEAVENLY LUMINARIES, The Sun. CHAPTER LXXII.
Then more on that ancient cosmology: The Gates Cosmology of the Astronomical Book of Enoch, Eshbal Ratzon Tel Aviv University

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2019, 03:02:54 PM »
Also

Rab already answered this in disput of janes attempt to asnwer.
The discussion involved the thickness of air limiting how far you can see thru the "haze".
Yet we can see stars on the horizon.
Similarly a low moon.
So the whole thing is bunk.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2019, 06:54:17 PM »
Also

Rab already answered this in disput of janes attempt to asnwer.
The discussion involved the thickness of air limiting how far you can see thru the "haze".
Yet we can see stars on the horizon.
Similarly a low moon.
So the whole thing is bunk.

Also

One of the things I do not understand is the issue of the horizon on a flat earth.
I have asked the question several times , but so far I have failed to get answers (especially missing. are any from any FE).
The questions are :
(1) What is the definition or description of what the horizon is on a flat earth ?
(2) Where is the horizon on a flat earth ?
(3) Is the horizon on a flat earth  always at some fixed distance from an observer ?
(4) If the distance to the horizon is not fixed on a flat earth,  what would affect the estimates of measurements and how would they be made ?
One of the problems that puzzle me is this question about the distance an observer could see being limited  by ''the thickness of the atmoplane'' . It would seem it would be impossible to see the horizon on a flat earth.
Any and all answers would be appreciated.From my somewhat limited experience at having been at sea, I have observed the horizon and have answers to what I have seen ,  which is definite proof that the earth is not flat.

In reference to rabinoz  comment on seeing stars at the horizon clearly :
Survivors of the Titanic disaster, seated in their lifeboats, reported they saw. ''Stars rising and setting on the horizon.''
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 07:00:33 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 07:05:59 PM »
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.

What if this is  at sunrise,  on a clear, sunny, cloudless day ?
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 07:12:05 PM »
It has a lampshade

Either  a  Lampshade or some kind of reflector, mirror or lens as in a spotlight .
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2019, 12:53:47 AM »
Dont forget
The haze magically disappears if you go up.
If you were like googlet and you servced navy or were a pirate, then you know the crows nest was up high to see past the curve.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2019, 12:53:57 PM »
Also

Rab already answered this in disput of janes attempt to asnwer.
The discussion involved the thickness of air limiting how far you can see thru the "haze".
Yet we can see stars on the horizon.
Similarly a low moon.
So the whole thing is bunk.

Also

One of the things I do not understand is the issue of the horizon on a flat earth.
I have asked the question several times , but so far I have failed to get answers (especially missing. are any from any FE).
The questions are :
(1) What is the definition or description of what the horizon is on a flat earth ?
(2) Where is the horizon on a flat earth ?
(3) Is the horizon on a flat earth  always at some fixed distance from an observer ?
(4) If the distance to the horizon is not fixed on a flat earth,  what would affect the estimates of measurements and how would they be made ?
One of the problems that puzzle me is this question about the distance an observer could see being limited  by ''the thickness of the atmoplane'' . It would seem it would be impossible to see the horizon on a flat earth.
Any and all answers would be appreciated.From my somewhat limited experience at having been at sea, I have observed the horizon and have answers to what I have seen ,  which is definite proof that the earth is not flat.

In reference to rabinoz  comment on seeing stars at the horizon clearly :
Survivors of the Titanic disaster, seated in their lifeboats, reported they saw. ''Stars rising and setting on the horizon.''
Regarding the horizon: If the atmosphere was completely transparent and the surface of the Earth had no imperfections, and we could resolve tiny things then the horizon would be infinitely far away. However none of these approximations are true. When you look out to sea, the horizon is where the sky appears to meet the water. You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere. Imagine the horizon as consisting of two lines; the theoretical horizon at infinity, and the point on the surface of the sea where the atmosphere starts to affect your view. Between these lines, the atmosphere's effect gradually increases as you go up, creating a blurred effect. Except these lines are normally under 0.01 degrees apart, which our vision can't resolve, so we see a clear line.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2019, 01:39:06 PM »
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2019, 02:37:20 PM »
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2019, 02:43:35 PM »
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
How would sextants work with a flat earth, they use the position of the horizon.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2019, 04:07:51 PM »
Dont forget
The haze magically disappears if you go up.
If you were like googlet and you servced navy or were a pirate, then you know the crows nest was up high to see past the curve.

You can always see things on the surface of the sea as long as they are between you and the horizon. You can see farther to the horizon but only things between you and the horizon, if you are higher up, as in the crow's nest. But you can only see things farther than the horizon if they are higher above the horizon, such as the tops of the masts on a ship or the tops of buildings on the land beyond the horizon.But since you are looking up, you are looking through a small slice of the atmosphere and not across as looking horizontally.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

rabinoz

  • 24329
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2019, 05:03:40 PM »
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
How would sextants work with a flat earth, they use the position of the horizon.
Exactly!
Have a look at this post by a part-time sailor with no axe to grind re flat/Globe issue:
Quote from: mathscinotes
Correcting Sextant Measurements For Dip
altitude
The angular distance of a celestial object above an observer's horizontal plane . There are published tables of the altitudes of various celestial objects. However, it is difficult to obtain a stable horizontal reference on a moving ship. The horizon provides a very stable reference and we can use a sextant to accurately measure the altitudes of celestial objects with respect to the horizon. Figure 2 shows the relationship between the horizontal and the horizon. The are related through the angle called dip.

Figure 2: Illustration of Dip With Respect to Horizontal
dip of the horizon
Dip of the horizon is the the angular depression of the horizon below the horizontal plane. If we were taking sights on a stable land site, we could measure altitudes using  a theodolite with its horizontal established using a bubble level. At sea, however, nothing is stable except the horizon. We use a sextant at sea to measure the altitude of a celestial object with respect to the horizon and then use our dip calculation to change the altitude reference from the horizon to the horizontal.
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Celestial navigators have long known that the horizon falls below the local horizontal by this "angle of dip".
Above a few hundred metres altitude there is no need for sextants or theodolites to observe it.
A good spirit level or even a carefully calibrated smart phone will show it. Here's a video on that but excuse the down under bit.

Critical Think lives near Brisbane, as I do, and can't help his Aussie accent or humour ;):

Globling teaches Antonio Subirats a better lesson in horizon drop by Critical Think
The "nitty-gritty" starts at about 2:15.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2019, 06:36:47 PM »
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.
and at sun set , sun rise under the clouds.
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2019, 05:22:31 AM »
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
The horizon isn't a physical point on the surface of the water, it's a theoretical limit. In a perfect world, the distance to the horizon would be infinity. However, due to surface and atmospheric imperfections, the visible horizon can be either above or below the theoretical horizon. It should be fairly self explanatory as to how it can appear above, but here's a diagram to show how 'dip' is created at sea:

Small ripples nearer to the observer are able to cast incredibly long 'shadows' where the sea's surface is hidden. These allow for the effect of the atmosphere to grow from negligible to the point where sea looks like sky, creating the illusion that there is a clear cut line.
The thousands of ripples in the sea fill in the gaps to the point where the observer sees a solid horizon line. The sky directly above this line is in fact just very blurry sea (and perhaps some mirage effect going on too).

Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2019, 12:04:04 PM »
The horizon isn't a physical point on the surface of the water, it's a theoretical limit. In a perfect world, the distance to the horizon would be infinity. However, due to surface and atmospheric imperfections, the visible horizon can be either above or below the theoretical horizon.
Again, the atmosphere is clearly not the issue. We can clearly see objects beyond the horizon, with the lower sections of them obscured, even with a clear line at the horizon.
If the atmosphere was going to be the cause, we wouldn't see that.

Small ripples nearer to the observer are able to cast incredibly long 'shadows' where the sea's surface is hidden. These allow for the effect of the atmosphere to grow from negligible to the point where sea looks like sky, creating the illusion that there is a clear cut line.
The thousands of ripples in the sea fill in the gaps to the point where the observer sees a solid horizon line. The sky directly above this line is in fact just very blurry sea (and perhaps some mirage effect going on too).
It is actually the distant ripples.
The near ripples are far too close and cast practically no shadow (unless your eyes are below their height). The far more distant ones then have a much smaller angle to them and thus cast long shadows.But they obscure very little height.


Perhaps you can provide a picture of an object, like a boat, beyond the horizon, clearly showing why the bottom is obscured (some times to quite a large extent)?

Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.
and at sun set , sun rise under the clouds.

Above or below the clouds?

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20113
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
The horizon isn't a physical point on the surface of the water, it's a theoretical limit. In a perfect world, the distance to the horizon would be infinity. However, due to surface and atmospheric imperfections, the visible horizon can be either above or below the theoretical horizon.
Again, the atmosphere is clearly not the issue. We can clearly see objects beyond the horizon, with the lower sections of them obscured, even with a clear line at the horizon.
If the atmosphere was going to be the cause, we wouldn't see that.

Again and again, atmosphere is a part of the issue.

If atmosphere would not the part of the issue as I marked with red so why you had mentioned it by the blue line? You are contradicting with yourself. Then you are using so called management to warn me to not mention you.

You are clearly using angry globularist managemet team in your benefits, mister Jackinoz.



Haha
How many simultaneuous battles can rab have with wise?