I researched how GPS works

Because it doesn't work in Oceans mean they are absent.

Again, that is nothing more than your pathetic baseless claim.
Repeating the same baseless claim again and again won't magically make it true.
Until you substantiate your claim of GPS not working in oceans you cannot use it as any part of a rational argument against GPS.

I am not claiming anything. GPS does not work in Oceans.

See that last part?
You know, that part where you say "GPS does not work in Oceans."
That is a claim.
You lying and pretending it isn't a claim doesn't magically make it not a claim.
You are claiming that GPS doesn't work in oceans.
That is your claim and you have the burden of proof to back it up.


Now again, can you actually address the topic, or are you just capable of this childish nonsense?

The Volvo ocean race around the world. They use GPS to track the race, across oceans (plural). I saw one of their boats in Newport RI, pretty intimidating the navigational equipment and readouts they had on board. They are not fooling around. It's kind of life or death out there in certain parts of the oceans and they live it and know it. So if you disbelieve their stories, take it it up with them. They, the crews, are a hardy lot and wouldn't take kindly to your disputing or disparaging the way in which they sail.

Can you please provide details of anyone other than you saying GPS does not work in oceans.

I know that GPS "works across oceans" and across deserts because I have used them in those locations.

Have YOU ever even tried?

The Volvo ocean race around the world. They use GPS to track the race, across oceans (plural). I saw one of their boats in Newport RI, ...

They always use routes close the lands. Whenever they far to oceans then use compass, not the GPS. Prove the opposite.

Quote from: wise on June 17, 2019, 04:23:38 AM

I know that GPS "works across oceans" and across deserts because I have used them in those locations.

Have YOU ever even tried?

It was the talking about startements with Jackblack. Whats happened to Jackblack, have you started to think its being insuffucient to reply me and he need help? I prefer jackblack replies me. If he became ill please let us know this.

Quote from: inquisitive on June 10, 2019, 04:58:11 AM

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 04:55:52 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on June 10, 2019, 04:35:31 AM

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 04:05:55 AM

You are confusing who is asking the questions here. I am the who asking the questions here.

You are confused about where you are.
This is a thread to discuss GPS.

So you have no idea why does not GPS work on inner oceans, right? So you have not an answer so you very well know that they do not work because GPS needs ground for land stations, isn't it?

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 04:05:55 AM

Why does not GPS work on inner side of oceans?

Answer those questions before handle your task to another angry globularist.

Now, stop spreading more BS and answer the question, now!

GPS works on oceans and is used by ships for navigation.  Also by aircraft.

Nope. They are not working on inner oceans. Prove me wrong.

How else does it work when i can see 15 us and russian transmitters even when there is no mobile phone coverage?

Quote from: rabinoz on June 17, 2019, 10:38:29 PM

I know that GPS "works across oceans" and across deserts because I have used them in those locations.

Have YOU ever even tried?

I prefer jackblack replies me. If he became ill please let us know this.

Well, I replied to  you!

But JackBlack was "Last Active: Today at 09:39:27 AM" so why would you think he might be I'll.
He would be at work during the day and possibly went out for the evening - I wouldn't know.
There's no way I'd know if "he became ill" unless he sent a PM and he hasn't.

I prefer jackblack replies me.

Then quit with the childish BS and deal with the topic.
Again, if you want to use GPS allegedly not working in the ocean as an argument against a satellite based system with a RE, then you will need to provide evidence that it doesn't work in the ocean.
Otherwise the discussion of the ocean is completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread, which is the impossibility of faking a RE satellite based system using FE math and ground based transmitters.

I do agree to some extent.
The topic is done.
We have shown that the currently used GPS system cannot be faked.
This means the used GPS system relies upon satellites orbitting a RE.
No one has been able to provide a solution which allows it to be faked on a FE using ground based transmitters, while we have shown that doing so would introduce massive errors or require an insane number of very large transmitters.
This is quite definitive proof that Earth is round.

No one has been able to show any problems with GPS. Instead they have only been able to provide baseless lies about it allegedly not working in some locations.

So yes, the topic is done. FE lost, BIG TIME!

If you would like to try again some time, feel free to come back with evidence or a method of faking GPS.

Say hello to your programmer. Get want him to add you a code that "if wise wants to leave him alone when he want to discuss with somebody (in this example it was zorbakim, you've interrupted our perfect conversation), do what he says and leave him alone in that thread what he talks about. Otherwise he finishes you.

How can GPS work with a single transmitter on a hill? You need to check in the middle of a desert, please let us know. How many transmitters does your GPS show?

I'm a big cry baby

When I said I have shown that the current GPS system can't be faked, I meant absolutely nothing at all to do with oceans.
Again, that is entirely your idea to bring up so the burden of proof is entirely upon you.

Instead the proof was based upon the massive errors faking a satellite based system with a land based system would cause.

But hey, at least you finally managed to admit that your claims about GPS not working in oceans are claims. Sure you still lie and say they are strong rather than baseless, but you took one step towards reality by admitting they are claims.

I'm a big cry baby

You can not deal with me without an admin support, right? It proves you are insuffucient to deal with me. rabinoz was using boydster and you are using the scg. Oh, this was better. You two are not simple members, right? My posts are definitely not too small to read.

gps in the ocean does not work, and also does not work in deserted places. The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims. If you say that your gps system is satellite-based then this should work everywhere. I say it does not work in the ocean because it is terrestrial. This is not a claim until you prove otherwise. you are the claimant, and the burden for proof belongs to you.

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you

Nope.
In this thread I have been discussing the impossibility of faking the current system.
I was not discussing if it works in particular locations.
The first person to bring up claims of GPS working in the ocean or not working in the ocean was you.
As such it is entirely our claim.

So until you prove that GPS does not work in the ocean (or other places), it just remains your baseless claim, and I do not need to admit anything regarding it (other than it being your baseless claim).
And no, you complaining about people not proving you wrong is not proof that you are correct.
Nor is you claiming that it isn't a claim.
Nor is you claiming it.

So either prove that GPS doesn't work in the ocean, or drop the subject as without that proof (which doesn't exist) it cannot be used as any part of a rational against GPS.

If you would like to try addressing the topic, then explain how you can fake a satellite based system using ground based transmitters, proving accuracy to within 3 m, without an absolutely insane number of large, highly directional transmitters.

I will not be responding to any further spam with your baseless claims regarding GPS not working in oceans.
If you want me to respond to such claims any more (at least in this thread) make sure you include proof that it doesn't work in oceans, not just more baseless claims and dodging of the burden of proof.

JackB quote

 will not be responding to any further spam with your baseless claims



HURRAY!

Quote from: JackBlack on June 18, 2019, 01:46:10 PM

I'm a big cry baby

Quote from: wise

You can not deal with me without an admin support, right? It proves you are insuffucient to deal with me. rabinoz was using boydster and you are using the scg. Oh, this was better. You two are not simple members, right? My posts are definitely not too small to read.

gps in the ocean does not work, and also does not work in deserted places. The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims. If you say that your gps system is satellite-based then this should work everywhere. I say it does not work in the ocean because it is terrestrial. This is not a claim until you prove otherwise. you are the claimant, and the burden for proof belongs to you.

Please provide links to the details of a terresterial based system.  How many transmitters does your GPS receiver show? It will also show them moving across the sky.

Where have you shown it is not working in oceans or deserts, please post picture of receiver display.

GPS - GLOBAL Positioning System - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

See https://www.gps.gov/  Disagree?

And explain how it is used to send missiles to their target in a foreign country.

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

And technically GPS should work in all these place because technically the GPS is a satellite based system and you have posted no contrary evidence.

So, these claims that GPS does not work in these places is your claim.

How does GPS work?

The Global Positioning System (GPS) is a network of about 30 satellites orbiting the Earth at an altitude of 20,000 km. The system was originally developed by the US government for military navigation but now anyone with a GPS device, be it a SatNav, mobile phone or handheld GPS unit, can receive the radio signals that the satellites broadcast.

Wherever you are on the planet, at least four GPS satellites are ‘visible’ at any time. Each one transmits information about its position and the current time at regular intervals. These signals, travelling at the speed of light, are intercepted by your GPS receiver, which calculates how far away each satellite is based on how long it took for the messages to arrive.

Once it has information on how far away at least three satellites are, your GPS receiver can pinpoint your location using a process called trilateration.

<< Read the details of  trilateration in the link. >>

All you ever post are you own words simple saying that GPS doesn’t work "in the ocean or in deserted places".

And no, I do not "have to prove I work in these places".
I don't "work in these places" but I have travelled tens of thousands of kilometres through the desert regions of Australia, by aircraft to Europe etc and by ship from England to Norway and parts of the Pacific Ocean.

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

Quote from: rabinoz on June 18, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

Well, for example, airplanes are using it to broadcast their location. That's how such sites work:
https://www.flightradar24.com/51,-2/6
And you can easily confirm their accuracy by using AR app on your phone and watch the sky. I was using it many times to track our company airplane.
You can read more about the system here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

I was playing with GPS long before there was any significant gsm system in Poland (using usb-connected gps). And it was working pretty good.
This is how today a GPS-chip looks like:
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/l80-gps-chip-10436045030.html
https://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/769-66-Channel-LS20031-GPS-Receiver-Module-MT3339-Chipset

There are dozens of manufacturers of these, and you think they all just lie and are also paid by NASA, building GSM receivers and selling them as GPS receivers? And then dozens of cell system providers send GPS signals using their cell towers and also lie to everyone about this? And NASA pays them as well? And then also all of these amateurs who build home-made gps receivers:
http://www.aholme.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/homemade-gps-receiver/
are also paid by NASA?
You do understand, that to calculate the position you need to calculate your distance from each found satellites first? And how would they fake it?
You do realise that you can track them, and in case of good weather conditions even see them with your own eyes:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/satellite-tracker-by-star-walk/id1248172706

Well, if i would be you, i would be afraid to open a refrigerator.

Besides - have you ever had a satellite tv? Where do you think are all these dashes pointed at? At balloons? Airplanes? It's really disturbing if you take into consideration that satellite tv was and still is available for everybody all around the globe as soon as the satellites were launched. You really think that someone built hundreds of radar stations over the night on the whole earth just to bring the tv to everybody?

Quote from: rabinoz on June 18, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

All documentation shows it is Global, clue is in the word,   No details about places about where it does not work, which would be well known.

Quote from: wise on June 24, 2019, 06:08:54 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 18, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

Well, for example, airplanes are using it to broadcast their location. That's how such sites work:
https://www.flightradar24.com/51,-2/6
And you can easily confirm their accuracy by using AR app on your phone and watch the sky. I was using it many times to track our company airplane.
You can read more about the system here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

I was playing with GPS long before there was any significant gsm system in Poland (using usb-connected gps). And it was working pretty good.
This is how today a GPS-chip looks like:
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/l80-gps-chip-10436045030.html
https://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/769-66-Channel-LS20031-GPS-Receiver-Module-MT3339-Chipset

There are dozens of manufacturers of these, and you think they all just lie and are also paid by NASA, building GSM receivers and selling them as GPS receivers? And then dozens of cell system providers send GPS signals using their cell towers and also lie to everyone about this? And NASA pays them as well? And then also all of these amateurs who build home-made gps receivers:
http://www.aholme.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/homemade-gps-receiver/
are also paid by NASA?
You do understand, that to calculate the position you need to calculate your distance from each found satellites first? And how would they fake it?
You do realise that you can track them, and in case of good weather conditions even see them with your own eyes:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/satellite-tracker-by-star-walk/id1248172706

Well, if i would be you, i would be afraid to open a refrigerator.

Besides - have you ever had a satellite tv? Where do you think are all these dashes pointed at? At balloons? Airplanes? It's really disturbing if you take into consideration that satellite tv was and still is available for everybody all around the globe as soon as the satellites were launched. You really think that someone built hundreds of radar stations over the night on the whole earth just to bring the tv to everybody?

Flight radar uses ground bases stations in coastal places, and uses estimation inner oceans.

Quote from: wise on June 24, 2019, 06:08:54 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 18, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

All documentation shows it is Global, clue is in the word,   No details about places about where it does not work, which would be well known.

Clue isn't a proof. There is well details where it is not working. I've gave details. it does not work in the middle of the ocean and in deserted places with no terrestrial transmitters nearby.  transmitters can be found in a place we think is uninhabited. However, this is not the case in the middle of the ocean in the middle of the ocean gps does not work, mobile phone does not work, satellite phone does not work. prove the opposite.

Quote from: kosmacz on June 24, 2019, 11:10:24 AM

Quote from: wise on June 24, 2019, 06:08:54 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 18, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

Well, for example, airplanes are using it to broadcast their location. That's how such sites work:
https://www.flightradar24.com/51,-2/6
And you can easily confirm their accuracy by using AR app on your phone and watch the sky. I was using it many times to track our company airplane.
You can read more about the system here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

I was playing with GPS long before there was any significant gsm system in Poland (using usb-connected gps). And it was working pretty good.
This is how today a GPS-chip looks like:
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/l80-gps-chip-10436045030.html
https://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/769-66-Channel-LS20031-GPS-Receiver-Module-MT3339-Chipset

There are dozens of manufacturers of these, and you think they all just lie and are also paid by NASA, building GSM receivers and selling them as GPS receivers? And then dozens of cell system providers send GPS signals using their cell towers and also lie to everyone about this? And NASA pays them as well? And then also all of these amateurs who build home-made gps receivers:
http://www.aholme.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/homemade-gps-receiver/
are also paid by NASA?
You do understand, that to calculate the position you need to calculate your distance from each found satellites first? And how would they fake it?
You do realise that you can track them, and in case of good weather conditions even see them with your own eyes:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/satellite-tracker-by-star-walk/id1248172706

Well, if i would be you, i would be afraid to open a refrigerator.

Besides - have you ever had a satellite tv? Where do you think are all these dashes pointed at? At balloons? Airplanes? It's really disturbing if you take into consideration that satellite tv was and still is available for everybody all around the globe as soon as the satellites were launched. You really think that someone built hundreds of radar stations over the night on the whole earth just to bring the tv to everybody?

Flight radar uses ground bases stations in coastal places, and uses estimation inner oceans.

Flightradar collects the data from ground stations, sure, but this data is sent from airplanes, collecting it first from GPS system.
You think all of these manufacturers around the world are just faking what are they really producing?


Besides, why cherry picking? Could you elaborate how satellite tv works? Ground stations?

"We Think" is also not proof.
Thanks again for more baseless claims.

Keep working on that gps based map showing flight times (not distances).

Quote from: wise on June 24, 2019, 12:49:23 PM

Quote from: kosmacz on June 24, 2019, 11:10:24 AM

Quote from: wise on June 24, 2019, 06:08:54 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 18, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

Well, for example, airplanes are using it to broadcast their location. That's how such sites work:
https://www.flightradar24.com/51,-2/6
And you can easily confirm their accuracy by using AR app on your phone and watch the sky. I was using it many times to track our company airplane.
You can read more about the system here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

I was playing with GPS long before there was any significant gsm system in Poland (using usb-connected gps). And it was working pretty good.
This is how today a GPS-chip looks like:
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/l80-gps-chip-10436045030.html
https://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/769-66-Channel-LS20031-GPS-Receiver-Module-MT3339-Chipset

There are dozens of manufacturers of these, and you think they all just lie and are also paid by NASA, building GSM receivers and selling them as GPS receivers? And then dozens of cell system providers send GPS signals using their cell towers and also lie to everyone about this? And NASA pays them as well? And then also all of these amateurs who build home-made gps receivers:
http://www.aholme.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/homemade-gps-receiver/
are also paid by NASA?
You do understand, that to calculate the position you need to calculate your distance from each found satellites first? And how would they fake it?
You do realise that you can track them, and in case of good weather conditions even see them with your own eyes:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/satellite-tracker-by-star-walk/id1248172706

Well, if i would be you, i would be afraid to open a refrigerator.

Besides - have you ever had a satellite tv? Where do you think are all these dashes pointed at? At balloons? Airplanes? It's really disturbing if you take into consideration that satellite tv was and still is available for everybody all around the globe as soon as the satellites were launched. You really think that someone built hundreds of radar stations over the night on the whole earth just to bring the tv to everybody?

Flight radar uses ground bases stations in coastal places, and uses estimation inner oceans.

Flightradar collects the data from ground stations, sure, but this data is sent from airplanes, collecting it first from GPS system.
You think all of these manufacturers around the world are just faking what are they really producing?


Besides, why cherry picking? Could you elaborate how satellite tv works? Ground stations?

They are not faking their products. How can you know sure whether they have placed their base stations to ground or space? You can not. it should be more expensive if the base station is in space.  based on this, they charge you more.

Quote from: inquisitive on June 24, 2019, 11:39:38 AM

Quote from: wise on June 24, 2019, 06:08:54 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 18, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:58:54 PM

The claim that GPS works everywhere belongs to you. then you have to prove you work in these places. otherwise, you must admit that you are not working in the ocean or in deserted places. technically this is so. again, these are not my claims.

I know that "GPS works everywhere" that I have tried to use it - in the desert, in mid-oceans in aircraft and on ships.

Nope, lie. Prove its working in everywhere. You can't. So give up childish claims.

All documentation shows it is Global, clue is in the word,   No details about places about where it does not work, which would be well known.

Clue isn't a proof. There is well details where it is not working. I've gave details. it does not work in the middle of the ocean and in deserted places with no terrestrial transmitters nearby.  transmitters can be found in a place we think is uninhabited. However, this is not the case in the middle of the ocean in the middle of the ocean gps does not work, mobile phone does not work, satellite phone does not work. prove the opposite.

You should get details from people who supply the equipment, please let us know what they say.  We know about mobile phone coverage which has short range.  Why do you dismiss satellite operation.  Astra transmit broadcast tv successfully.

How can you know sure whether they have placed their base stations to ground or space?

I already explained that. There are open source GPS recievers, which still use math based upon a RE and a satellite system.
If they were using land based transmitters to fake it you would get massive errors in position.

it should be more expensive if the base station is in space.

Nope.
A space based system is actually a lot cheaper.
It only requires 10s of transmitters to cover the entire globe.
To do the same with land based systems you would need so many it isn't funny, including putting some in the middle of oceans.
The shear number of transmitters would make the cost astronomical.
But if you want to fake a satellite based system using a land based system the number of transmitters skyrockets making it even less practical.