Satellite TV

Reading another topic on satellites and GPS, and how it is proposed (by FE) that satellites dont exist and the signals are actually coming from ground based towers, how is it that you have to point your Sky dish up towards the sky to get a signal?

Surely if the signals were coming from gound level, then you should get a signal with the dish pointed along the ground, but no. If you use a signal detector, you can see that the signal is clearly coming from up above gound in the precise locations of the satellites.

Or have they come up with some way of bending the signals somehow?

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

So if I follow the horizontal direction of the dish, I will find a ground station?

And when you say a few upward, do you mean a few degrees upward? As some dishes need to point up by about 60 degrees to get a signal. This seems a bit high for a ground based signal to get over even tall obstructions. If you were to move that dish down by say 10 degrees you would lose the signal which doesnt seem to follow your reasoning.

My directv dish is in a corner on our upstairs balcony facing the building, and it is pointed up at the sky with just enough clearance to get a signal over the roof. It is surrounded on three sides by the building and the railing on the balcony is solid with fairly thick stucco walls that are roughly 4 feet tall, so it's completely blocked off on all sides except for a small point in the sky where it's aimed/gets signal. It is just my opinion but I don't see how this could be getting tv service from anything other than a satellite. Plus in the winter even a small amount of snow on the dish blocks the signal so I am sure the building is keeping any ground level signals from hitting the dish 

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

No, the vertical direction matters as well. If you change it by any significant amount you lose the signal. This makes no sense for a ground based transmitter.

What land parasites are you referring to?

So if I follow the horizontal direction of the dish, I will find a ground station?

And when you say a few upward, do you mean a few degrees upward? As some dishes need to point up by about 60 degrees to get a signal. This seems a bit high for a ground based signal to get over even tall obstructions. If you were to move that dish down by say 10 degrees you would lose the signal which doesnt seem to follow your reasoning.

Not only are they all point upward but they’re all pointing to the same position in the sky. 

For instance, I have DirecTV.  Every DirecTV dish in America points to the same patch of sky.  Some of those are aimed over the Gulf of Mexico making land based transmitters impossible. 

Further, on a flat plane all these dishes point different locations.  There is no convergence.  However, on a globe they all point to the same point in geostationary orbit where DirecTV has their satellites. 

Here is an excellent video with graphics showing how it’s impossible on a flat earth.



Mike

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

Incorrect. The reception angle (beam width) of a typical 90 cm dish at 14 GHz (in Ku band) is only about 1.6ｰ.
So the dish must be aligned to within about 0.5ｰ to avoid significant signal loss.

Satsig Beam Width Calculator 90 cm dish at 14 GHz From: Satsig Beam Width Calculator.

Where are the ground stations for all the Caravans using satellite TV throughout Central Australia far from any ground stations?

Believe the people that use and install satellite TV systems not those trying to deny the truth.

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

Can you explain this?

Quote from: wise on January 17, 2019, 06:01:23 AM

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

Incorrect. The reception angle (beam width) of a typical 90 cm dish at 14 GHz (in Ku band) is only about 1.6ｰ.
So the dish must be aligned to within about 0.5ｰ to avoid significant signal loss.

Nope. Numbers can not defend you, but only truth. Satellites are so called moving but stationary dishes are not losing the signal. Because they are geting signals from a stationary station. Give up the evilness.

Nope. Numbers can not defend you, but only truth. Satellites are so called moving but stationary dishes are not losing the signal. Because they are geting signals from a stationary station. Give up the evilness.

It is only in your imagination that the dishes are stationary.
In reality, both the dishes and the satellites are moving.

These dishes receive signals from geostationary satellites, i.e. satellites which are stationary relative to Earth. This only makes sense on a rotating round Earth, as that is the only model that allows these satellites to exist.

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

At the equator the dishes point straight up.

If the dish had to point at a ground station you'd be able to find satellite dishes north of the equator pointing north as that's where their nearest transmitter and strongest signal is. Has anyone ever seen a satellite TV dish in Europe, North America or Russia which points north?

Quote from: rabinoz on January 17, 2019, 01:30:46 PM

Quote from: wise on January 17, 2019, 06:01:23 AM

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

Incorrect. The reception angle (beam width) of a typical 90 cm dish at 14 GHz (in Ku band) is only about 1.6ｰ.
So the dish must be aligned to within about 0.5ｰ to avoid significant signal loss.

Nope. Numbers can not defend you, but only truth. Satellites are so called moving but stationary dishes are not losing the signal. Because they are geting signals from a stationary station. Give up the evilness.

No, while the satellites must orbit the earth the ones used to transmit direct satellite TV signals are in geostationary orbits (their orbital period is exactly one sidereal day) and so remain in almost exactly the same place relative to the rotating earth.

Quote from: wise on January 17, 2019, 06:01:23 AM

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

At the equator the dishes point straight up.

If the dish had to point at a ground station you'd be able to find satellite dishes north of the equator pointing north as that's where their nearest transmitter and strongest signal is. Has anyone ever seen a satellite TV dish in Europe, North America or Russia which points north?

Stop to create BS claims and prove what you say. Otherwise everybody can claim everything.

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 01:42:50 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on January 17, 2019, 01:30:46 PM

Quote from: wise on January 17, 2019, 06:01:23 AM

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

Incorrect. The reception angle (beam width) of a typical 90 cm dish at 14 GHz (in Ku band) is only about 1.6ｰ.
So the dish must be aligned to within about 0.5ｰ to avoid significant signal loss.

Nope. Numbers can not defend you, but only truth. Satellites are so called moving but stationary dishes are not losing the signal. Because they are geting signals from a stationary station. Give up the evilness.

No, while the satellites must orbit the earth the ones used to transmit direct satellite TV signals are in geostationary orbits (their orbital period is exactly one sidereal day) and so remain in almost exactly the same place relative to the rotating earth.

Stop to create BS. There is phsics that you don't ever heard. It needs to rotate around the earth whatever they be but want to stay at the orbit. So, since you drawn on it, you will not give up the evilness.

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 01:42:50 PM

Nope. Numbers can not defend you, but only truth. Satellites are so called moving but stationary dishes are not losing the signal. Because they are geting signals from a stationary station. Give up the evilness.

It is only in your imagination that the dishes are stationary.

I don't touch my dish since years. And you are contradicting with rabblack. Because he explains why dishes are not moving.

Which of are you telling true?

a) So dishes can be stationary.

No, while the satellites must orbit the earth the ones used to transmit direct satellite TV signals are in geostationary orbits (their orbital period is exactly one sidereal day) and so remain in almost exactly the same place relative to the rotating earth.

b) dishes can not be stationary.

It is only in your imagination that the dishes are stationary.

But rabblack has same imagination with me. If sat device stays almost same point so dish does not need to move.

Please discuss with yourself each other than sound me with one voice.

I don't touch my dish since years.

Which means it just kept on moving with Earth.

And you are contradicting with rabblack. Because he explains why dishes are not moving.

There is no rabblack here.
If you mean Rabinoz, then no, he said something quite similar to what I did.

Notice how he said the same position relative to Earth?
That doesn't mean they are stationary.
That means they move with Earth.

Again, it is in your imagination that Earth, and thus objects which remain in the same position relative to Earth, are stationary.
In reality, Earth is not stationary and thus objects which remain in the same position relative to Earth are not stationary.

Again, these geostationary satellites only make sense for a rotating Earth.

It needs to rotate around the earth whatever they be but want to stay at the orbit.

The satellites are in an equatorial orbit and that orbit has exactly the same period as the rotational period of the earth.
That is why those direct TV satellites stay in almost exactly the same position relative to earth.

Now I do realise that you lack the intelligence and knowledge needed to understand all that but I assure that it is correct and it provides very good evidence that the earth is a rotating Globe.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 12:41:43 AM

I don't touch my dish since years.

Which means it just kept on moving with Earth.

Its kept moving with earth (this is your claim) means it is stationary compared the earth. But satellites are not. Otherwise they had to get down the earth. Check mat. Shut your childish arguments down now.

The satellites are in an equatorial orbit and that orbit has exactly the same period as the rotational period of the earth.

If they are really has equal orbit with earth it means they are stationary. Because space around the earth can be accepted as moving or stationary isn't change anything. So they are stopping, compared the earth relatively, so they have to down to the earth. Now go return to your kindergarden school and learn more phsics.

Quote from: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 03:02:19 AM

The satellites are in an equatorial orbit and that orbit has exactly the same period as the rotational period of the earth.

If they are really has equal orbit with earth it means they are stationary.

Incorrect! The earth rotates, look a nice sped up image of the earth rotating and the far side of the moon:

NASA SCIENCE, SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: Face of Earth

Source: NASA/NOAA
Published: January 30, 2018
Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite's EPIC maintains a constant view of the fully illuminated Earth as it rotates,
providing scientific observations of ozone, vegetation, cloud height and aerosols in the atmosphere.

About twice a year the camera captures the Moon and Earth together as the orbit of DSCOVR crosses the orbital plane of the Moon.

These images were taken between 3:50 p.m. and 8:45 p.m. EDT showing the moon moving over the Pacific Ocean near North America.
The North Pole is in the upper left corner of the image. It is in the original orientation as taken by the spacecraft.

            This image from the Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite captured
            a unique view of the Moon as it moved in front of the sunlit side of Earth in 2015.
            It shows a view of the farside of the Moon, which faces the Sun,
            that is never directly visible to us here on Earth.
            I found this perspective profoundly moving and
            only through our satellite views could this have been shared.
                                               - Michael Freilich, Director NASA Earth Science Division

Have fun!

Quote from: JackBlack on June 10, 2019, 02:47:23 AM

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 12:41:43 AM

I don't touch my dish since years.

Which means it just kept on moving with Earth.

Its kept moving with earth (this is your claim) means it is stationary compared the earth. But satellites are not. Otherwise they had to get down the earth. Check mat. Shut your childish arguments down now.

Tv broadcast satelllites do not move relative to earth.

Its kept moving with earth (this is your claim) means it is stationary compared the earth.

Yes, it means it remains in the same position relative to Earth.

But satellites are not. Otherwise they had to get down the earth.

Pure BS.
Most satellites do move relative to Earth, but not all.

The condition required for a satellites to orbit Earth in a circular orbit rather than fall down or get higher or go in an elliptical orbit is for the force from gravity to equal the force required to maintain the uniform circular motion, or to word it differently (and get rid of 1 variable) the acceleration due to gravity equals the acceleration required to maintain the orbit.
Both of these follow fairly simple rules.
Gravity has a=G M r^-2.
Uniform circular motion has a=4 π² r T^-2.
This means these circular orbits exist when:
G M r^-2=4 π² r T^-2
or r=(0.25 G M T² π^-2)^1/3

In order for the satellite to remain stationary relative to a planet, it needs to be in such a circular orbit where the period of the orbit (T) is equal to the period of rotation of the planet, and it needs to be in an orbit above the equator.

This means there can be satellites which remain stationary relative to Earth.
More importantly, these satellites can only exist with a rotating Earth (otherwise the period is infinite and thus the radius is infinite).
That means the existence of these satellites, as demonstrated by satellite TV, is proof that Earth rotates.

Because space around the earth can be accepted as moving or stationary isn't change anything.

As Earth is rotating, not simply moving with linear motion, you can only change reference frames between them by using inertial forces, such as the centrifugal force. This simply replaces the acceleration required to maintain uniform circular motion with an outwards with the exact same formula.

Go actually learn physics before you tell others to.
This means for any given body

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:48:20 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 03:02:19 AM

The satellites are in an equatorial orbit and that orbit has exactly the same period as the rotational period of the earth.

If they are really has equal orbit with earth it means they are stationary.

Incorrect! The earth rotates, look a nice sped up image of the earth rotating and the far side of the moon:

Quote

NASA SCIENCE, SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: Face of Earth

Source: NASA/NOAA
Published: January 30, 2018
Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite's EPIC maintains a constant view of the fully illuminated Earth as it rotates,
providing scientific observations of ozone, vegetation, cloud height and aerosols in the atmosphere.

About twice a year the camera captures the Moon and Earth together as the orbit of DSCOVR crosses the orbital plane of the Moon.

These images were taken between 3:50 p.m. and 8:45 p.m. EDT showing the moon moving over the Pacific Ocean near North America.
The North Pole is in the upper left corner of the image. It is in the original orientation as taken by the spacecraft.

            This image from the Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite captured
            a unique view of the Moon as it moved in front of the sunlit side of Earth in 2015.
            It shows a view of the farside of the Moon, which faces the Sun,
            that is never directly visible to us here on Earth.
            I found this perspective profoundly moving and
            only through our satellite views could this have been shared.
                                               - Michael Freilich, Director NASA Earth Science Division

Have fun!

I hope you do not expect I accept this BS.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:47:21 AM

Its kept moving with earth (this is your claim) means it is stationary compared the earth.

Yes, it means it remains in the same position relative to Earth.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:47:21 AM

But satellites are not. Otherwise they had to get down the earth.

Pure BS.
Most satellites do move relative to Earth, but not all.

The condition required for a satellites to orbit Earth in a circular orbit rather than fall down or get higher or go in an elliptical orbit is for the force from gravity to equal the force required to maintain the uniform circular motion, or to word it differently (and get rid of 1 variable) the acceleration due to gravity equals the acceleration required to maintain the orbit.
Both of these follow fairly simple rules.
Gravity has a=G M r^-2.
Uniform circular motion has a=4 π² r T^-2.
This means these circular orbits exist when:
G M r^-2=4 π² r T^-2
or r=(0.25 G M T² π^-2)^1/3

In order for the satellite to remain stationary relative to a planet, it needs to be in such a circular orbit where the period of the orbit (T) is equal to the period of rotation of the planet, and it needs to be in an orbit above the equator.

This means there can be satellites which remain stationary relative to Earth.
More importantly, these satellites can only exist with a rotating Earth (otherwise the period is infinite and thus the radius is infinite).
That means the existence of these satellites, as demonstrated by satellite TV, is proof that Earth rotates.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:48:20 AM

Because space around the earth can be accepted as moving or stationary isn't change anything.

As Earth is rotating, not simply moving with linear motion, you can only change reference frames between them by using inertial forces, such as the centrifugal force. This simply replaces the acceleration required to maintain uniform circular motion with an outwards with the exact same formula.

Go actually learn physics before you tell others to.
This means for any given body

Ahahah how funny! Writing formula from somewhere by copy paste like this: a=4 π² r T^-2. does not magically teaches you the phsics. It is not a proof. You are as ignorant as does not aware writing simpliest formulas as evidence of something. Ahahah how you are funny. 

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:47:21 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on June 10, 2019, 02:47:23 AM

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 12:41:43 AM

I don't touch my dish since years.

Which means it just kept on moving with Earth.

Its kept moving with earth (this is your claim) means it is stationary compared the earth. But satellites are not. Otherwise they had to get down the earth. Check mat. Shut your childish arguments down now.

Tv broadcast satelllites do not move relative to earth.

But they have to move relative to earth. Otherwise the satellites down the earth.

Quote from: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 04:14:20 AM

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:48:20 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 03:02:19 AM

The satellites are in an equatorial orbit and that orbit has exactly the same period as the rotational period of the earth.

If they are really has equal orbit with earth it means they are stationary.

Incorrect! The earth rotates, look a nice sped up image of the earth rotating and the far side of the moon:

Quote

NASA SCIENCE, SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: Face of Earth

Source: NASA/NOAA
Published: January 30, 2018
Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite's EPIC maintains a constant view of the fully illuminated Earth as it rotates,
providing scientific observations of ozone, vegetation, cloud height and aerosols in the atmosphere.

About twice a year the camera captures the Moon and Earth together as the orbit of DSCOVR crosses the orbital plane of the Moon.

These images were taken between 3:50 p.m. and 8:45 p.m. EDT showing the moon moving over the Pacific Ocean near North America.
The North Pole is in the upper left corner of the image. It is in the original orientation as taken by the spacecraft.

            This image from the Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite captured
            a unique view of the Moon as it moved in front of the sunlit side of Earth in 2015.
            It shows a view of the farside of the Moon, which faces the Sun,
            that is never directly visible to us here on Earth.
            I found this perspective profoundly moving and
            only through our satellite views could this have been shared.
                                               - Michael Freilich, Director NASA Earth Science Division

Have fun!

I hope you do not expect I accept this.

Of course you won't accept it! You are simply not smart enough to understand what that photo shows. I pity you, you poor ignorant fellow !

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 04:47:40 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 04:14:20 AM

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:48:20 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 03:02:19 AM

The satellites are in an equatorial orbit and that orbit has exactly the same period as the rotational period of the earth.

If they are really has equal orbit with earth it means they are stationary.

Incorrect! The earth rotates, look a nice sped up image of the earth rotating and the far side of the moon:

Quote

NASA SCIENCE, SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: Face of Earth

Source: NASA/NOAA
Published: January 30, 2018
Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite's EPIC maintains a constant view of the fully illuminated Earth as it rotates,
providing scientific observations of ozone, vegetation, cloud height and aerosols in the atmosphere.

About twice a year the camera captures the Moon and Earth together as the orbit of DSCOVR crosses the orbital plane of the Moon.

These images were taken between 3:50 p.m. and 8:45 p.m. EDT showing the moon moving over the Pacific Ocean near North America.
The North Pole is in the upper left corner of the image. It is in the original orientation as taken by the spacecraft.

            This image from the Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite captured
            a unique view of the Moon as it moved in front of the sunlit side of Earth in 2015.
            It shows a view of the farside of the Moon, which faces the Sun,
            that is never directly visible to us here on Earth.
            I found this perspective profoundly moving and
            only through our satellite views could this have been shared.
                                               - Michael Freilich, Director NASA Earth Science Division

Have fun!

I hope you do not expect I accept this.

Of course you won't accept it! You are simply not smart enough to understand what that photo shows. I pity you, you poor ignorant fellow !

I see its disproving the globe earth theory. Thanks. You show the dark side of the moon in the light. 

But they have to move relative to earth. Otherwise the satellites down the earth.

Incorrect!
They do not move relative to earth and they do not fall "down the earth".
But you wouldn't understand. It's orbital mechanics and a bit beyond professional ditch diggers like yourself.

Those satellites just sit fairly obediently up there just needing an occasional bit of thrust to get the few disobedient ones to sit still .

Quote from: turtles on June 09, 2019, 03:15:44 PM

Quote from: wise on January 17, 2019, 06:01:23 AM

The direction of the dish does not mean the direction of the ground station. Its horizontal direction is important, it is true. But vertical direction has to be a few upward prevent land based parasites.

At the equator the dishes point straight up.

If the dish had to point at a ground station you'd be able to find satellite dishes north of the equator pointing north as that's where their nearest transmitter and strongest signal is. Has anyone ever seen a satellite TV dish in Europe, North America or Russia which points north?

Stop to create BS claims and prove what you say.

Which part do you think isn't true? That dishes on the equator point up? They always point at somewhere on the geostationary orbital path.

How can I prove that a northern hemisphere dish points North, I've never seen one, I don't think they exist. I want you to find one to back up your claim that geostationary TV is actually transmitted from ground antenna.