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Why is it round?

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Username

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Why is it round?
« on: January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM »
Is there any argument for a round earth?
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rabinoz

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 02:02:21 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?
Yes.
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Lonegranger

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 02:02:54 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?


Do you have one for it being flat?
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Username

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 02:05:45 AM »
Quote from: Lonegranger on January 12, 2019, 02:02:54 AM
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?
Well, I did give 142 reasons.

Do you have one for it being flat?
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Lonegranger

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 02:14:49 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 02:05:45 AM
Quote from: Lonegranger on January 12, 2019, 02:02:54 AM
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?
Well, I did give 142 reasons.

Do you have one for it being flat?


The way these things generally work is:


The current generally accepted view of the world is a sphere.  It falls into the same category as the acceptance that water is wet.


You appear to have a belief that the world is not a sphere, which contradicts all accepted scientific knowledge. The implications for a belief such as yours are immense.


The onus is on you to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the world is not a sphere and the solar system works according to accepted scientific knowledge.


It’s not just a question of the earth being flat, that’s just the tip or opening of a very very large can of worms.


The actual opening question here John should be, why don’t you think the earth is a sphere, the whole of science does?.....
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Username

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 02:16:55 AM »
Oh yeah, you are super right about that one. Good argument man.
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Username

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 02:18:03 AM »
Really good job.
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Username

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 02:18:23 AM »
Does anyone have a real argument for why its round?
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Lonegranger

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2019, 02:24:48 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 02:16:55 AM
Oh yeah, you are super right about that one. Good argument man.


I thought this was supposed to be a debate John?


I presented a case


You came back with a shit post!


What’s up?
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Username

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2019, 02:26:07 AM »
FO sho I'll always debate with you.
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Lonegranger

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2019, 02:30:54 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 02:18:23 AM
Does anyone have a real argument for why its round?


I can say....



Go to any observatory on the planet and ask an astronomer. Go into any library and grab a book on the subject. Speak to someone who has been in space. Look at one of the many live feeds from the various satellites out there.


You will no doubt say they are all fake!


But what evidence can you provide for it being flat?
What flat earth astronomer can I ask?
Who can I speak to who has been to the edge?
Do you have any live feeds from the edge?


I have given you a number of things, how about you do the same?
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Username

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2019, 03:32:12 AM »
So your reason is to ask other people? You believe the earth is round because you asked other people.
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Crutchwater

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2019, 03:49:12 AM »
Humans actually have photographs of our globe.

What do you sub-human flatties have??

Is your argument going to be "those photographs are all fake"??


As for first hand evidence, I have been outside when the sun rises and sets.
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rabinoz

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2019, 04:20:09 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 02:18:23 AM
Does anyone have a real argument for why its round?
Because the horizon does not rise to "eye-level" as is claimed in the "FAQ" and the "Wiki".

Flat Earth: Does the horizon really rise to eye level? Rory.
Rory shows a number of simple ways that this can be tested and at the end says, "research it properly and figure it out for yourself".

And the next is from an earlier post and I present it here because Flaxton Gardens are only about 111 km from where I live and I've been there  a number of times.
So here is more evidence that the horizon falls below "eye-level":

Flat Earth? Mountains rising to meet eye-level by Andrew Eddie

Andrew Eddie found that, from Flaxton Gardens (418 m above sea-level), Mount Coolum (208 m above sea-level) lines up with the horizon.
This makes it certain that the horizon is below the local horizontal.

There are numerous more videos in like vein, though many are far less polite to flat-earthers!

« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 05:28:16 PM by rabinoz »
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SomeDutchGuy

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2019, 05:10:03 AM »
I've seen the lunar eclipse in 2015. That can't happen on a flat earth. At least, I have yet to read a good explanation for this.

A lot more often, I see the sun set. I live close to the sea and it does not get smaller. Flat earth can't explain how the sun sets. A spotlight sun is impossible, how would the sun know the direction in which to shine and what blocks it from shining in all directions?

I have also with my own eyes, seen the ISS fly over multiple times. Funny thing is that when you look at it, it somehow stops being visible before it gets to the horizon. That is because it is then in earth's shadow and no longer reflects the sunlight that makes it visible.
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Ski

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2019, 09:21:23 AM »
I've seen a lunar eclipse where the sun and moon were both visible, which is impossible if the earth's shadow was being cast on the moon. What say you?

The sun gets farther away in RET, and never gets smaller either. Why must it get smaller? It's a function of distance that you never notice the difference.
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SomeDutchGuy

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2019, 10:28:27 AM »
Quote from: Ski on January 12, 2019, 09:21:23 AM
I've seen a lunar eclipse where the sun and moon were both visible, which is impossible if the earth's shadow was being cast on the moon. What say you?

The sun gets farther away in RET, and never gets smaller either. Why must it get smaller? It's a function of distance that you never notice the difference.

It is only possible when both are somewhat on the horizon. Do you recall any date on which that was? Lunar eclipses can only happen with a full moon so if you did not see a full moon, it was probably just the phase the moon was in at that moment (ie. waxing crescent).

The sun does not get farther away in RET. At least, not notable on 1 day. Over the course of a whole year the distance varies, but this has nothing to do with sunset or sunrise. The "common" conception in FE as I've read is that the Sun does get smaller as the day comes to an end, but that is not what one observes.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2019, 10:43:14 AM »
Quote from: Ski on January 12, 2019, 09:21:23 AM
I've seen a lunar eclipse where the sun and moon were both visible, which is impossible if the earth's shadow was being cast on the moon. What say you?

Not necessarily.

More details are needed. How high were the sun and moon in the sky? Do you have any reliable evidence that demonstrates this actually happened? Don't forget that even though the sky is blue doesn't mean the sun is up. See "twilight", or, better yet, go outside on a clear day a little after sunset and see for yourself.

Quote
The sun gets farther away in RET, and never gets smaller either.

Do you have any evidence that it never gets smaller (or larger)? Evidence I've seen says that it does.

Here's a sample:

https://earthsky.org/todays-image/composite-image-size-of-sun-aphelion-perihelion

We're still pretty close to perihelion; I'll try to take a picture through the telescope using a solar filter next clear day. We can compare that with photos taken using the same equipment close to aphelion. Mark your calendar for early July and remind me if I don't bring it up around then.

Quote
Why must it get smaller? It's a function of distance that you never notice the difference.

How much does that distance vary compared to the minimum distance? Is it enough to "notice"?
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Ski

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2019, 11:27:32 AM »
It was a little after seven on the morning of 10 December 2011.


Quote from: A2O
Do you have any evidence that it never gets smaller (or larger)?
I think you're missing the point re: sunset/rise
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markjo

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2019, 11:45:51 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?
Just look out your window.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2019, 11:49:28 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 02:18:03 AM
Really good job.
Start a shit low effort thread, and get shit low effort replies.   ::)
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2019, 11:53:37 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?

Yes. It's the only model that fits with all observations.

For a simple example, consider the fact that it can be sunrise New Zealand while the sun is high in the sky in the western US, sunset in France, and midnight in India, all at the same moment.

That's trivially easy to explain if the earth is a globe and the sun is distant relative to the size of the globe so that half of it is directly illuminated.

Here's a 5 1/2-minute video illustrating what the pattern of day, night, and twilight would look like over a period of one year on the north unipolar flat earth:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wLOVb_gVbV0

It would take an interesting "spotlight" to make that happen, especially as the pattern changes from a "pool of darkness" to a "pool of light" and back around the equinoxes! How does that "pool of darkness" happen, anyway?

That's just one of the reasons we know the earth is a globe.
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FlatOrange

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2019, 11:58:47 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?
It's round because that's the simplest form of a 3D object. It's compact, it's efficient. Other shapes get broken and worn down. All of which eventually leads to a sphere. If you think to yourself, well there are flat rocks, realize they haven't been worn down all the way. They'll eventually get there. A grain of sand. Seemingly insignificant, but yet many make a nice beach. And we all love the beach.
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rze

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2019, 12:14:04 PM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 01:53:15 AM
Is there any argument for a round earth?

Yes ,that's how laws of physics work ! A planet's gravity pulls equally from all sides. Gravity pulls from the center to the edges like the spokes of a bicycle wheel. This makes the overall shape of a planet a sphere, which is a three-dimensional circle.There is no point hiding the shape of the Earth.Also if the Earth wasn't a sphere, it would be literally impossible for a lie like this to be kept for so long.So now ,can i ask too, if there is an argument for the Earth being flat ? Is there any scientist than can confirm this or is all your flat earth "knowledge" from Youtube conspiracy videos ? Is there any evidence at all ? Is there a photo of the Flat Earth ,or photo from the edge ?
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rabinoz

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2019, 03:01:36 PM »
Quote from: Ski on January 12, 2019, 09:21:23 AM
I've seen a lunar eclipse where the sun and moon were both visible, which is impossible if the earth's shadow was being cast on the moon. What say you?
I say that you should show your evidence in the form of:
      exactly where you were observing this lunar eclipse from, exactly when you were observed this lunar eclipse and
      photographs of the sun and moon showing their elevations.
A selenelion is not at all that rare but can be observed only in limited areas on earth.

Quote from: Ski
The sun gets farther away in RET, and never gets smaller either. Why must it get smaller? It's a function of distance that you never notice the difference.
Yes, "the sun gets farther away in RET, and never gets smaller either" but it gets further away by at the most the radius of the earth.
Since the average distance to the sun in GET (Globe Earth Theory) is about 150 million kilometres
the fractional change in the sun's angular size is not more than about 0.004% - and so quite indiscernable.

But in FET the sun is supposedly about 5000 km above and circles the North Pole.
I will take the distance from the North Pole to the equator circle as 10,000 km. Other values will cause little difference to the result.

So, on the usual FET model, taking the simple case of someone on the equator at an equinox:
     at solar noon the sun would be directly overhead and 5000 km away but
      six hours later at sunset the sun would be about sqrt(100002 + 100002 + 50002) = 15,000 km away.
So the distance to the sun is three times as far at sunset as it was at sunrise.

Therefore the angular size of a 50 km diameter sun would be expected to vary quite gradually from about 0.57° at noon down to 0.19° at sunset.
Such a variation is not observed.

Observations of the true angular size of the sun can be obscured by the glare around the sun but this can removed by a suitable solar filter.

Similar changes in the angular size of the moon would also be expected and in this case, there is no problem with glare.
Anyone can easily observe and take photos of the moon and demonstrate that no significant angular size change can be seen.

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Lonegranger

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2019, 03:44:33 PM »
Quote from: John Davis on January 12, 2019, 03:32:12 AM
So your reason is to ask other people? You believe the earth is round because you asked other people.


And what tells you it’s flat John.....this goes both ways.
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Lonegranger

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2019, 03:45:52 PM »
Quote from: Here to laugh at you on January 12, 2019, 03:49:12 AM
Humans actually have photographs of our globe.

What do you sub-human flatties have??

Is your argument going to be "those photographs are all fake"??


As for first hand evidence, I have been outside when the sun rises and sets.


I do t think flatinos ever get out from under their bed covers!
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sokarul

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2019, 04:52:38 PM »
This topic was covered long ago. Ski knows what a selenelion eclipse is. He is just playing dumb. Here is the video of the one he saw.


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Smoke Machine

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2019, 12:32:49 AM »
John, do you mean round like a coin or round like a sphere? Both are round.

You've gotta be more specific. There's some flat earthers who think the flat earth shape is a flat square with four corners.
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SomeDutchGuy

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Re: Why is it round?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2019, 02:16:38 AM »
Quote from: sokarul on January 12, 2019, 04:52:38 PM
This topic was covered long ago. Ski knows what a selenelion eclipse is. He is just playing dumb. Here is the video of the one he saw.




I don't see both the Sun and the Moon in that video.
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