Altitude for Satellite

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fjr66

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Altitude for Satellite
« on: December 26, 2018, 09:45:06 PM »
Principal work for many altimeter was using athmospheric pressure that decreasing as we ascend above earth surface. But how about satellite in geostationer orbit. There is no athmosphere in there. How do they determine their altitude? Do they using GPS satellite that orbit below them?

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JackBlack

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2018, 11:32:28 PM »
Principal work for many altimeter was using athmospheric pressure that decreasing as we ascend above earth surface. But how about satellite in geostationer orbit. There is no athmosphere in there. How do they determine their altitude? Do they using GPS satellite that orbit below them?
They have radar.
They can also indirectly determine it by noting how their orbit changes and doing simple math.

Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2019, 12:48:09 PM »
Principal work for many altimeter was using athmospheric pressure that decreasing as we ascend above earth surface. But how about satellite in geostationer orbit. There is no athmosphere in there. How do they determine their altitude? Do they using GPS satellite that orbit below them?

GPS can not use because there is no atmospher.

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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2019, 01:32:38 PM »
Principal work for many altimeter was using athmospheric pressure that decreasing as we ascend above earth surface. But how about satellite in geostationer orbit. There is no athmosphere in there. How do they determine their altitude? Do they using GPS satellite that orbit below them?
They have radar.
They can also indirectly determine it by noting how their orbit changes and doing simple math.

Quote
Antenna acts as transmitter, sending narrow beam of radio waves through the air. Radio waves hit enemy airplane and reflect back. Antenna picks up reflected waves during a break between transmissions. ... Enemy plane shows up on TV radar display with any other nearby targets.


https://www.google.com/search?q=whow+radar+works&oq=whow+radar+works

No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims and complaint my to moderators. Grove up and accept the scams.
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JackBlack

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2019, 03:01:41 PM »
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission.
That has been disproven long ago.
If you wish to claim that radio waves or other forms of electromagnetic radiation requires a medium for propagation, feel free to prove it.
A simple method would be to get a vacuum chamber and show it can't go through it while under vacuum but can while filled with air.

Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2019, 03:09:50 PM »
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims and complaint my to moderators. Grove up and accept the scams.

Surely you're thinking about sound, not electromagnetic radiation.

As Jack says, you can test electromagnetic radiation propagation with a vacuum chamber. You could test this quite cheaply yourself, unless you're afraid of the answer?
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

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Macarios

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2019, 03:16:26 PM »
My apologies, but I must correct your claim:
Air is required for sound, not for electromagnetic waves.

Radio waves and light are both electromagnetic waves, the only difference is wavelength.
The 15 GHz satellite TV carrier (radio wave) has wavelength of 2 centimeters.
Visible light has wavelengths from 760 to 380 nanometers.

If light can propagate through vacuum, so can radio wave.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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Macarios

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2019, 03:28:17 PM »
Principal work for many altimeter was using athmospheric pressure that decreasing as we ascend above earth surface. But how about satellite in geostationer orbit. There is no athmosphere in there. How do they determine their altitude? Do they using GPS satellite that orbit below them?

Distance to satellite is measured from here, from the ground.
We have to know where it is, satellite itself doesn't have to.
One way to measure altitude would be by measuring signal delay.
Measuring angles of elevation and azimuth from multiple ground points would be another.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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rabinoz

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2019, 03:39:46 PM »
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims and complaint my to moderators. Grove up and accept the scams.
Incorrect! Radio signals and other electromagnetic radiation does not need any air "environment for transmission".
Quote from: The Physics Classroom
Propagation of an Electromagnetic Wave
Electromagnetic waves are waves which can travel through the vacuum of outer space. Mechanical waves, unlike electromagnetic waves, require the presence of a material medium in order to transport their energy from one location to another. Sound waves are examples of mechanical waves while light waves are examples of electromagnetic waves.

Electromagnetic waves are created by the vibration of an electric charge. This vibration creates a wave which has both an electric and a magnetic component. An electromagnetic wave transports its energy through a vacuum at a speed close to 3.00 x 108 m/s (a speed value commonly represented by the symbol c). The propagation of an electromagnetic wave through a material medium occurs at a net speed which is less than 3.00 x 108 m/s. This is depicted in the animation below.

<< See the reference for more detail >>

Here is an example of light first propagating in air only and the in air plus a very good near vacuum - note the presence of air makes no apparent difference:

Bowling Ball and Feathers Dropped in Air and then Vacuum by David Leeper


And another but in a much smaller chamber and not such a "good" vacuum but still adequate to let a light feather drop unimpeded:

If You Drop A Feather And A Metal Cube In A Vacuum Chamber Will They Hit At The Same Time? by The Action Lab


Again, you are the one making the claim that "No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a physical environment for transmission" so again the onus is on you alone to prove your case.

If you cannot prove your case we must ignore your claims.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 06:00:39 PM by rabinoz »

Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2019, 05:01:30 PM »
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims
YOU stop the BS claims. Incuding the one that you are a scientist because making such a stupid claim like this one proves you are not.

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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2019, 12:23:57 AM »
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims
YOU stop the BS claims. Incuding the one that you are a scientist because making such a stupid claim like this one proves you are not.

The only BS creators are you and your upper accounts. In a space nothing can move, even radio signals. All spaces are blackholes. Prove the opposite.
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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2019, 12:24:46 AM »
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims
YOU stop the BS claims. Incuding the one that you are a scientist because making such a stupid claim like this one proves you are not.

In a space nothing can move, even radio signals. All spaces are blackholes. Prove the opposite.
Watch tv broadcast from a satellite.

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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2019, 12:29:12 AM »
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims
YOU stop the BS claims. Incuding the one that you are a scientist because making such a stupid claim like this one proves you are not.

In a space nothing can move, even radio signals. All spaces are blackholes. Prove the opposite.
Watch tv broadcast from a satellite.

Get do stop to BS claims. They are land based broadcast since tens of years.
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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2019, 12:31:24 AM »
<BS deleted>

As I many times said, your fetö friends have forbided me to enter youtube one more time. I have no chance to see and reply your posts. Get stop do this childish behaviour and grow up. We are not fighting, we are discussing, at least, theorically.
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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2019, 12:33:22 AM »
My apologies, but I must correct your claim:
Air is required for sound, not for electromagnetic waves.

Radio waves and light are both electromagnetic waves, the only difference is wavelength.
The 15 GHz satellite TV carrier (radio wave) has wavelength of 2 centimeters.
Visible light has wavelengths from 760 to 380 nanometers.

If light can propagate through vacuum, so can radio wave.

Prove radio waves being electro magnetic waves. Magnets use electro magnetic waves, but radio broadcast uses radio waves, not same electo magnetic waves like magnets. They are different things. Prove the opposite.
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JackBlack

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2019, 02:43:56 AM »
Prove the opposite.
We have been over this plenty of times.
That is not how the burden of proof works.
If you make an insane claim, the burden is on you to prove it, not on others to disprove it.

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rabinoz

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2019, 03:12:12 AM »
<BS deleted>
Get stop do this childish behaviour and grow up. We are not fighting, we are discussing, at least, theorically.
You are the childish one when you change my post to "<BS deleted>". I posted a lot more than those YouTube videos and here it is again:
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims and complaint my to moderators. Grove up and accept the scams.
Incorrect! Radio signals and other electromagnetic radiation does not need any air "environment for transmission".
Quote from: The Physics Classroom
Propagation of an Electromagnetic Wave
Electromagnetic waves are waves which can travel through the vacuum of outer space. Mechanical waves, unlike electromagnetic waves, require the presence of a material medium in order to transport their energy from one location to another. Sound waves are examples of mechanical waves while light waves are examples of electromagnetic waves.

Electromagnetic waves are created by the vibration of an electric charge. This vibration creates a wave which has both an electric and a magnetic component. An electromagnetic wave transports its energy through a vacuum at a speed close to 3.00 x 108 m/s (a speed value commonly represented by the symbol c). The propagation of an electromagnetic wave through a material medium occurs at a net speed which is less than 3.00 x 108 m/s. This is depicted in the animation below.

<< See the reference for more detail >>

<< YouTube videos deleted >>

Again, you are the one making the claim that "No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a physical environment for transmission" so again the onus is on you alone to prove your case.

If you cannot prove your case we must ignore your claims.
Now read that and provide a rational and or admit that you have no evidence for you totally unscientific claims.

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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2019, 04:26:47 AM »
Prove the opposite.
We have been over this plenty of times.

You? You and your alt? You did not prove anything but just claimed baseless BS.
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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2019, 04:27:46 AM »
<BS deleted>
Get stop do this childish behaviour and grow up. We are not fighting, we are discussing, at least, theorically.
You are the childish one when you change my post to "<BS deleted>". I posted a lot more than those YouTube videos and here it is again:
No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a phsical environment for transmission. Now stop to BS claims and complaint my to moderators. Grove up and accept the scams.
Incorrect! Radio signals and other electromagnetic radiation does not need any air "environment for transmission".
Quote from: The Physics Classroom
Propagation of an Electromagnetic Wave
Electromagnetic waves are waves which can travel through the vacuum of outer space. Mechanical waves, unlike electromagnetic waves, require the presence of a material medium in order to transport their energy from one location to another. Sound waves are examples of mechanical waves while light waves are examples of electromagnetic waves.

Electromagnetic waves are created by the vibration of an electric charge. This vibration creates a wave which has both an electric and a magnetic component. An electromagnetic wave transports its energy through a vacuum at a speed close to 3.00 x 108 m/s (a speed value commonly represented by the symbol c). The propagation of an electromagnetic wave through a material medium occurs at a net speed which is less than 3.00 x 108 m/s. This is depicted in the animation below.

<< See the reference for more detail >>

<< YouTube videos deleted >>

Again, you are the one making the claim that "No air, no signal. Radio signals are waves need a physical environment for transmission" so again the onus is on you alone to prove your case.

If you cannot prove your case we must ignore your claims.
Now read that and provide a rational and or admit that you have no evidence for you totally unscientific claims.

I did not see any proof here, can you see? Sorry, perhaps your alt can see too.

@jackblack can you see a proof here?
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JackBlack

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2019, 04:37:35 AM »
You? You and your alt?
No, me and you. Were you repeatedly asserted baseless garbage and repeatedly had your ass handed to you.

Now are you going to back up your lies that radio waves need a medium for propagation?

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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2019, 05:12:26 AM »
You? You and your alt?
No, me and you.
No, not me. Me is not in your you's in any ways. So you are calling yourself you and your alts. Stop to say lie anymore.
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JackBlack

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2019, 02:10:22 PM »
No, not me.
Yes you.
"We" Can mean me and you.
We have been over this before.
You not liking the outcome doesn't magically remove it from existence.

Now where is your proof that radio waves cannot propagate through a vacuum?

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wise

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Re: Altitude for Satellite
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2019, 02:01:18 AM »
No, not me.
Yes you.
"We" Can mean me and you.
We have been over this before.
You not liking the outcome doesn't magically remove it from existence.

Now where is your proof that radio waves cannot propagate through a vacuum?

Ahahah. How can it be possible you and me agrees on anything. Either you deny me against all the scientific facts, or I deny your childish claims. But we never agrees on anything. Prove its being we me and you, but not you and your alt rabblack.
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