Intercontinental ballistic missile

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #180 on: January 02, 2019, 08:02:24 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8548
  • Flat like a droplet of water.
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #181 on: January 02, 2019, 08:43:18 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.

Wrong.

When I stop pedaling on a bicycle, I have ceased to provide thrust thus the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the bicycle becomes a dead stick and moves no further in the direction it was heading.

But that isn't what happens.
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #182 on: January 02, 2019, 09:06:18 AM »


Also, You fail to understand that going from zero velocity to "constant" velocity requires ACCELERATION.
The world is analog.
Not digital.
You fail to read what I say.
I mention that once the rocket launches it hits constant velocity in short order, vertically.
In short order is not instant, so yes there would be a brief period from standing start to launch where acceleration has to occur.

You did say "immediate"...
But semantics.
We can move on

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #183 on: January 02, 2019, 09:19:52 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.

So, what you're really saying is, all the thousands of rockets, witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people, eyewitnesses, are not REAL rockets?

Is that what you're saying?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #184 on: January 02, 2019, 09:51:42 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.

Aaaaah, no.
Simply Try googling basic physics formulas on accell and velocity (unless those are conspiracy as well).
Again - accell vs velocity.
Different.

Basically gun-Bullet analogy would be more relevant to a rocket and "immediate" max speed.
Elastics have a very visible acell distance (the stretched length).

Simply There is velocity (m/s) before the dome pushes or decellerates (m/s/s) the rocket back down to the foundation.
A basic analogy
Lets say you have bank account with 0dollars (velocity, stand still).
Every month your work pays you 100dollars/m (thrust acceleration at launch).
After 5months they fire you (fuel spent).
Youve aquired 500dollars of income (full velocity)
Your bills are 10$/m (decelleration via gravity or denpressure).
Simply Your first 5month rate of net income is 90$/m (pay - bills = total net or basically thrust - denP = total accel).
After a few more months you will have depleted your account (velocity) and start aquiring debt (falling).
Basically and simply put - your last statment is incorrect and youre not broke when you lose your job, youre broke when bils overcomes paystubs.

Newton invented this thing called calculus.
Try it out.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #185 on: January 02, 2019, 09:54:02 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.


Wrong.

When I stop pedaling on a bicycle, I have ceased to provide thrust thus the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the bicycle becomes a dead stick and moves no further in the direction it was heading.

But that isn't what happens.
Is your bicycle being pedalled vertically? No it isn't.

Go and try pedalling it up a wall.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #186 on: January 02, 2019, 09:56:08 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.

So, what you're really saying is, all the thousands of rockets, witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people, eyewitnesses, are not REAL rockets?

Is that what you're saying?
Nope.
I'm saying that all the ICBM's and big so called space rockets, are gimmicks. They don't do what we are told. In my opinion.

Missiles are most likely launched regularly.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #187 on: January 02, 2019, 10:12:15 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.

Aaaaah, no.
Simply Try googling basic physics formulas on accell and velocity (unless those are conspiracy as well).
Again - accell vs velocity.
Different.

Basically gun-Bullet analogy would be more relevant to a rocket and "immediate" max speed.
Elastics have a very visible acell distance (the stretched length).

Simply There is velocity (m/s) before the dome pushes or decellerates (m/s/s) the rocket back down to the foundation.
A basic analogy
Lets say you have bank account with 0dollars (velocity, stand still).
Every month your work pays you 100dollars/m (thrust acceleration at launch).
After 5months they fire you (fuel spent).
Youve aquired 500dollars of income (full velocity)
Your bills are 10$/m (decelleration via gravity or denpressure).
Simply Your first 5month rate of net income is 90$/m (pay - bills = total net or basically thrust - denP = total accel).
After a few more months you will have depleted your account (velocity) and start aquiring debt (falling).
Basically and simply put - your last statment is incorrect and youre not broke when you lose your job, youre broke when bils overcomes paystubs.

Newton invented this thing called calculus.
Try it out.
Try another analogy.

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #188 on: January 02, 2019, 10:17:06 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.

So, what you're really saying is, all the thousands of rockets, witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people, eyewitnesses, are not REAL rockets?

Is that what you're saying?
Nope.
I'm saying that all the ICBM's and big so called space rockets, are gimmicks. They don't do what we are told. In my opinion.

Missiles are most likely launched regularly.

And what are we being told they are doing? You can watch a launch in person, whether or not they go into space is irrelevant to your springboard theory. They are still rockets, and they certainly do NOT achieve maximum velocity immediately on ignition.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #189 on: January 02, 2019, 10:23:14 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.

So, what you're really saying is, all the thousands of rockets, witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people, eyewitnesses, are not REAL rockets?

Is that what you're saying?
Nope.
I'm saying that all the ICBM's and big so called space rockets, are gimmicks. They don't do what we are told. In my opinion.

Missiles are most likely launched regularly.

And what are we being told they are doing? You can watch a launch in person, whether or not they go into space is irrelevant to your springboard theory. They are still rockets, and they certainly do NOT achieve maximum velocity immediately on ignition.
Tell me what you've been watching live and show me a video of what you've been watching.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #190 on: January 02, 2019, 10:25:34 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.
How soon after leaving the launch pad does acceleration stop. Define immediately in relation too time.

What happens if there's no launch pad?  e.g. A horizontal launch.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #191 on: January 02, 2019, 10:34:58 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.

So, what you're really saying is, all the thousands of rockets, witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people, eyewitnesses, are not REAL rockets?

Is that what you're saying?
Nope.
I'm saying that all the ICBM's and big so called space rockets, are gimmicks. They don't do what we are told. In my opinion.

Missiles are most likely launched regularly.

And what are we being told they are doing? You can watch a launch in person, whether or not they go into space is irrelevant to your springboard theory. They are still rockets, and they certainly do NOT achieve maximum velocity immediately on ignition.
Tell me what you've been watching live and show me a video of what you've been watching.

Tell me what you've been smoking, and show me a live video of what you've been smoking.

There is mountains of amateur video of launches such as Space Shuttle.

Are you saying you are the only person who knows what really happens at ignition?

How many rockets have you personally witnessed, including your basic Estes models? My guess is zero, yet here you are advancing these wild theories.

I have built and launched dozens, Including multi-stage models. Does that count?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #192 on: January 02, 2019, 11:00:51 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.

Aaaaah, no.
Simply Try googling basic physics formulas on accell and velocity (unless those are conspiracy as well).
Again - accell vs velocity.
Different.

Basically gun-Bullet analogy would be more relevant to a rocket and "immediate" max speed.
Elastics have a very visible acell distance (the stretched length).

Simply There is velocity (m/s) before the dome pushes or decellerates (m/s/s) the rocket back down to the foundation.
A basic analogy
Lets say you have bank account with 0dollars (velocity, stand still).
Every month your work pays you 100dollars/m (thrust acceleration at launch).
After 5months they fire you (fuel spent).
Youve aquired 500dollars of income (full velocity)
Your bills are 10$/m (decelleration via gravity or denpressure).
Simply Your first 5month rate of net income is 90$/m (pay - bills = total net or basically thrust - denP = total accel).
After a few more months you will have depleted your account (velocity) and start aquiring debt (falling).
Basically and simply put - your last statment is incorrect and youre not broke when you lose your job, youre broke when bils overcomes paystubs.

Newton invented this thing called calculus.
Try it out.
Try another analogy.

Fly by dismissal of everyone?

Either way.
Was mine dismissed due its involment of numbers?
Maybe sceotis not a numbers guy.
The anaolgy was solid.

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8548
  • Flat like a droplet of water.
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #193 on: January 02, 2019, 11:10:00 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.


Wrong.

When I stop pedaling on a bicycle, I have ceased to provide thrust thus the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the bicycle becomes a dead stick and moves no further in the direction it was heading.

But that isn't what happens.
Is your bicycle being pedalled vertically? No it isn't.

Go and try pedalling it up a wall.

I can if I have forward momental from being on say a half pipe.
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

*

Stash

  • Ethical Stash
  • 13398
  • I am car!
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #194 on: January 02, 2019, 12:56:25 PM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.

So, what you're really saying is, all the thousands of rockets, witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people, eyewitnesses, are not REAL rockets?

Is that what you're saying?
Nope.
I'm saying that all the ICBM's and big so called space rockets, are gimmicks. They don't do what we are told. In my opinion.

Missiles are most likely launched regularly.

And what are we being told they are doing? You can watch a launch in person, whether or not they go into space is irrelevant to your springboard theory. They are still rockets, and they certainly do NOT achieve maximum velocity immediately on ignition.
Tell me what you've been watching live and show me a video of what you've been watching.

Unfortunately, I saw this one live:


*

JackBlack

  • 21745
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #195 on: January 02, 2019, 01:06:24 PM »
I think I've made it6 more than clear about it all being my opinion.
No you haven't.
You repeatedly assert it as fact then when called out try and hide being it being your opinion.
You even claim that things are backed up by logic.

You are on a debate site. You opinion means basically nothing.
If you can't provide something rational you should stay quite.


You are counterarguing based on your belief that it is all
No, we are arguing based upon knowledge and understanding.
Several of us having personally performed experiments to test and obtain/confirm that knowledge.
Meanwhile you don't even want to go and test yourself.

What is the degree based on?
Proper science degrees will have you performing experiments, not just reading from textbooks.
Proper engineering degrees will be similar, but vary depending upon what type of engineering you are doing, and take a lot of the science as is in some places or be quite similar to science in others.

No, they wont cover everything, because there isn't enough time do to everything.
If you wanted to discard all of science and start from scratch, even with all the technology we have (which you would have to verify anyway) you wouldn't be able to finish before you die.


I personally believe they are fiction until I am shown to be wrong in my reasoning.
And this is why you aren't presenting it as an opinion. If it is just an opinion it isn't based upon reasoning. It would be based upon belief and feelings.
If it was based upon reasoning it would be a claim of a fact.

It actually does.
Again, completely wrong.
Possible and plausible are vastly different. Possible requires any non-0 probability. Plausible requires that the event is actually likely, which as a starting point would be a possibility >0.5.

Fuel to mass ration scupper this nonsense, In my opinion.
If all you have is your opinion, then shut up.
You have previously claimed that they couldn't go more than a few hundred miles. Yet you have absolutely nothing to based that off.
So again, can you provide any form of reasoning to back it up.
Otherwise what you are doing is no better than simply saying you don't think they are real.

A world of supposed terrorism and nobody has went rogue. Not one in all these years.
That is because the terrorists don't have their hands on them.
Instead people who want to live do.

It depends who are the real ignorant people.
I would say those rejecting reality because they think it is silly, with nothing more than their own baseless opinions, who are completely unwilling to do tests themselves to find out the truth and instead just repeatedly demand physical evidence that they aren't willing to obtain themselves and which those they ask have no way to actually provide.


What will I be seeing in action?
Well if you go into model rocketry you can see that your claims about them are pure nonsense.


Absolutely not afraid of seeing anything.
Then why refuse to do the experiments?
Is it because you know it will refute you and thus don't want to do it, or do you think you already know the answer from your baseless beliefs and thus have no "need"?

If the rocket had a throttle and enough thrust to launch and also add extra thrust due to a throttle then I'd agree it could accelerate.
There is no need for a "throttle". If it has more force than is required to counter its weight and air resistance it can continue to accelerate.

The reality in my opinion is
Stop spouting garbage like this.
This is just another pathetic attempt to be able to assert baseless garbage without any evidence.
Either it is reality, or it just your opinion. Pick one.
Is it in reality a rocket does this, or is it in your ignorant opinion it does this?
If the former, provide evidence or some form of justification. If the latter, shut up as I don't give a damn if you don't thinks rockets work like they do in reality.
Simple experiments will prove you wrong, but you are unwilling to do the experiments.

a rocket uses full thrust
Again, "full thrust" would simply be an explosion, where all the fuel is expended instantly.
Instead they use much lower than that for a longer period of time to continue accelerating.

That actually makes no sense in terms of so called space rockets.
Only if you just want your rocket to just go up and then back down.
If you want it to follow an elliptical path to hit a target (such as an ICBM) then you don't want to go straight up. That is a much longer path and much less efficient as you would need to go up and then turn.

If you wanted to put something in orbit it is also extremely inefficient as you would need to go up and then turn.
The more efficient path is to be in a roughly elliptical orbit where you are boosting your perigee.

I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
And you are completely wrong.
An explosively fired projectile (like from a gun) pointing upwards would reach its maximum vertical velocity almost immediately.
A rocket, as long as it's thrust to weight ratio is greater than 1, will continue accelerating.
Again, plenty of people watch these real rockets launch and note that they don't magically accelerate instantly.

Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
We are discussing rockets, with rocket engines, not something fired from a sling.

we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.
Yes, because it doesn't have an engine and instead only has the initial throw to make it move. After which air resistance and gravity accelerate it, with gravity accelerating it downwards and air resistance accelerating it to bring it to a stop relative to the air.
A rocket engine continues to provide thrust allowing it to continue to accelerate.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
Why would it magically stop?
That would be akin to where the stone is released.

If you really want to work that comparison:
The rocket engine corresponds to the elastic band.
The rocket on the launch pad corresponds to the band pulled all the way back.
The engines igniting and pushing the rocket off the pad corresponds to releasing the stone.
The rocket off the pad, but still with its engines on corresponds to the stone still being in the elastic and being pushed forward by the elastic, but not at the maximum extension.
The engines cutting off corresponds to the stone now out of the elastic, coasting along as it is slowed by gravity and air resistance.

It isn't just the launchpad that corresponds to the stone in the elastic. It is the entire time the engine is on.
The launch pad only corresponds to the maximum extension where you are holding the stone back.

The main difference between that and a rocket (other than the obvious) is that the force acting on the stone is reduced as the elastic relaxes, while the force on the rocket remains roughly constant (it can have a little boost at the start due to the ground effect), and the mass of the stone remains constant while the mass of the rocket is reduces as it burns through its fuel. This means the maximum acceleration occurs right at the start for the stone while it can occur right at the end for a rocket (or some point during its burn due to the changing force from air resistance as it increases velocity).

Meanwhile, the nonsense you are claiming corresponds to releasing the stone, having it reach its maximum velocity instantly (i.e. a tiny amount of time compared to the time required to fully relax the elastic), continue going up at a constant velocity while the elastic relaxes, pushing the stone upwards; then once the elastic is relaxed, the stone stops dead and falls.

Is your bicycle being pedalled vertically? No it isn't.
Go and try pedalling it up a wall.
We have been over this before with your prior ignorance on inertia.
When I throw a ball up in the air it doesn't stop as soon as it leaves my hand, even though I stop providing "thrust" to it.
You not understanding inertia doesn't mean it isn't real.

Why should a rocket magically stop dead when its engines stop, but only if vertical?

Also, plenty of stunt people do it all the time. Riding up a vertical jump, yet continuing to go upwards.
People will do it on motor bikes, push bikes, skateboards, sometimes roller blades.
They all continue to go up.

I'm saying that all the ICBM's and big so called space rockets, are gimmicks. They don't do what we are told. In my opinion.
Yet they use a rocket engine, start off slow and continue to accelerate.
You are claiming they shouldn't.
So if not a rocket, just what do you think they are?

Now, like I said, if all you have is your opinion, then it is worthless and you should just stay quiet.

If you want to try convincing any rational person that inertia and other laws of physics are wrong, you will need more than just your opinion and/or baseless assertion.

All the experiments I have ever conducted show that inertia is real and that a rocket will continue to accelerate while its engines are on.
If you are unwilling to accept testimony and video evidence and instead demand real physical evidence then go buy a model rocket kit and test it yourself.
If you are unwilling to do that, and thus are completely unwilling to accept anything to show you are wrong, then just shut up as it is clear you are not interested in debate or truth.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #196 on: January 02, 2019, 01:28:27 PM »
Bank analogy is sound.
Learn to math.
Jane is good at math.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #197 on: January 02, 2019, 02:44:30 PM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.


Every thing you say on this subject is wrong. Go watch a video of any rocket launch and maximum velocity is not achieved instantaneously, that would be impossible. Even in the case of a simple projectile maximum velocity is not achieved instantaneously. Watch this.....the arrow is clearly seen accelerating. 
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« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 02:46:12 PM by Lonegranger »

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #198 on: January 02, 2019, 02:50:15 PM »
What is the degree based on?
Proper science degrees will have you performing experiments, not just reading from textbooks.
Proper engineering degrees will be similar, but vary depending upon what type of engineering you are doing, and take a lot of the science as is in some places or be quite similar to science in others.

No, they wont cover everything, because there isn't enough time do to everything.
If you wanted to discard all of science and start from scratch, even with all the technology we have (which you would have to verify anyway) you wouldn't be able to finish before you die.
He doesn’t care about degrees or anything else for that matter.  I have the degree and 35 years of experience in what he says is impossible.  His only answer is I’m a liar and/or I’ve been duped and I’m too stupid to know. 

IMHO, he knows and at least suspects that he’s outta gas.  It’s why he won’t test a model rocket with the TVC system.  It will disprove him and he isn’t ready for that.  It is the only thing that makes sense.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #199 on: January 02, 2019, 02:54:25 PM »
Simple graph showing flight of a small model rocket. Note how the velocity changes over the first second as its fuel burns. It then decelarates till it’s velocity reaches 0 at three seconds, then it falls.....




http://www.dynamicscience.com.au/tester/solutions1/space%20science/forces1.htm



« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 03:00:18 PM by Lonegranger »

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #200 on: January 02, 2019, 03:10:03 PM »
Simple graph showing flight of a small model rocket. Note how the velocity changes over the first second as its fuel burns. It then decelarates till it’s velocity reaches 0 at three seconds, then it falls.....




http://www.dynamicscience.com.au/tester/solutions1/space%20science/forces1.htm
Not to mention, for a rocket, model or otherwise, to have a constant thrust to not accelerate is literally impossible.
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #201 on: January 02, 2019, 03:22:08 PM »
Simple graph showing flight of a small model rocket. Note how the velocity changes over the first second as its fuel burns. It then decelarates till it’s velocity reaches 0 at three seconds, then it falls.....




http://www.dynamicscience.com.au/tester/solutions1/space%20science/forces1.htm
Not to mention, for a rocket, model or otherwise, to have a constant thrust to not accelerate is literally impossible.

If thrust = 9.81xmass + drag  then net zero.
But woul make for a shtty rocket

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #202 on: January 02, 2019, 04:09:18 PM »
Simple graph showing flight of a small model rocket. Note how the velocity changes over the first second as its fuel burns. It then decelarates till it’s velocity reaches 0 at three seconds, then it falls.....




http://www.dynamicscience.com.au/tester/solutions1/space%20science/forces1.htm
Not to mention, for a rocket, model or otherwise, to have a constant thrust to not accelerate is literally impossible.

If thrust = 9.81xmass + drag  then net zero.
But woul make for a shtty rocket
Except mass is constantly decreasing as fuel is used.  If mass decreases and thrust remains constant the 'a' of 'f=ma'....it must accelerate until all the fuel is used.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #203 on: January 02, 2019, 04:47:25 PM »
Aaah true.
Also drag reduces in upper atmosphere/ space.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #204 on: January 02, 2019, 05:59:42 PM »
Simple graph showing flight of a small model rocket. Note how the velocity changes over the first second as its fuel burns. It then decelarates till it’s velocity reaches 0 at three seconds, then it falls.....

http://www.dynamicscience.com.au/tester/solutions1/space%20science/forces1.htm
And have a look at: National Aeronautics and Space Administration, SPACE SHUTTLE LAUNCH MOTION ANALYSIS.
It's a .pdf file that has to be downloaded.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #205 on: January 03, 2019, 12:11:26 AM »

How soon after leaving the launch pad does acceleration stop. Define immediately in relation too time.
In terms of a real rocket/missile, something like 1 second or so, give or take. I can't give you a better answer than that so accept that for what it is whether you believe it or not.


Quote from: MicroBeta

What happens if there's no launch pad?  e.g. A horizontal launch.

Mike
A rocket propelled dragster type?
Something on wheels?
Or something fired from a fighter jet. A missile or whatever?


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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #206 on: January 03, 2019, 12:15:10 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.

So, what you're really saying is, all the thousands of rockets, witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people, eyewitnesses, are not REAL rockets?

Is that what you're saying?
Nope.
I'm saying that all the ICBM's and big so called space rockets, are gimmicks. They don't do what we are told. In my opinion.

Missiles are most likely launched regularly.

And what are we being told they are doing? You can watch a launch in person, whether or not they go into space is irrelevant to your springboard theory. They are still rockets, and they certainly do NOT achieve maximum velocity immediately on ignition.
Tell me what you've been watching live and show me a video of what you've been watching.

Tell me what you've been smoking, and show me a live video of what you've been smoking.

There is mountains of amateur video of launches such as Space Shuttle.

Are you saying you are the only person who knows what really happens at ignition?

How many rockets have you personally witnessed, including your basic Estes models? My guess is zero, yet here you are advancing these wild theories.

I have built and launched dozens, Including multi-stage models. Does that count?
Models rockets don't count.
I have no issues with genuine model rockets and when I say genuine, I mean any that can be physically verified.

However, we are dealing with the so called ICBM's and the big tax dollar supposed rockets.
You claim to have seen them in action. I'm asking you what you saw and to describe what you saw as in how it launched, etc.

All you've come back with is the above.
By all means do that but it doesn't help you or scupper me.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #207 on: January 03, 2019, 12:16:38 AM »
Fly by dismissal of everyone?

Either way.
Was mine dismissed due its involment of numbers?
Maybe sceotis not a numbers guy.
The anaolgy was solid.
Try another.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #208 on: January 03, 2019, 12:22:28 AM »
So, vehicles like the Saturn V and Space Shuttle, when launched, reached their maximum velocity immediately upon ignition?
Is that what you're saying?

Because literally hundreds of thousands of real people witnessed these launches live and in person over the years. They will all disagree.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying real rockets/missiles reach their maximum vertical velocity immediately after lift off.
Immediately? 
What is immediately?
How soon after liftoff does immediately come into play?

Mike
As soon as the rocket leaves the launchpad.

Look at it another way.
Picture holding a catapult and the stone being the rocket.
You pull back on that elastic and hold it and the stone.

This would be your rocket ready to leave the launch pad. All it needs is to release that stone.
The very instant that stone is released from the elastic it is at maximum velocity (assuming vertical).
 This would be the same with the immediate full thrust of the rocket.


Now then, if the stone could hold that maximum velocity by having constant elastic springboard then it would hold a constant velocity but we know the stone gets one maximum springboard launch and after that it is friction gripped and loses momentum from that point which slows it down to an eventual stop and then it accelerates downwards until it reaches terminal velocity or hits the ground before that.

With a rocket, it holds the thrust at maximum which keeps the rocket at constant velocity until it loses that maximum thrust.
If it loses it slowly, it loses maximum velocity on its way up, until it stops dead and then falls like the stone.

However, if that rocket is at maximum thrust and maximum velocity and then the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the rocket becomes a dead stick and moves no further upwards.
It then becomes like the stone as it falls.


Wrong.

When I stop pedaling on a bicycle, I have ceased to provide thrust thus the thrust is cut dead, immediately, the bicycle becomes a dead stick and moves no further in the direction it was heading.

But that isn't what happens.
Is your bicycle being pedalled vertically? No it isn't.

Go and try pedalling it up a wall.

I can if I have forward momental from being on say a half pipe.
Forward momentum is a springboard start. Of course you will move up it but only from the initial springboard launch by your energy at your max.
From the point of hitting that termination of max momentum you would have to pedal so hard to keep it at that velocity which you know is impossible up a vertical.

The best you could do is to pedal slower due to no higher energy or cease to pedal.
Either way you're stopping and coming back down.

If you cease to pedal after you max momentum is hit, you stop dead and fall.
Do you agree?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #209 on: January 03, 2019, 12:27:02 AM »


Unfortunately, I saw this one live:


If you want to use emotion to try and give you some kind of credence on this then stay out of it.