The End of Buddhism

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Ubuntu

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The End of Buddhism
« on: January 06, 2007, 02:34:22 PM »
“Kill the Buddha,” says the old koan. “Kill Buddhism,” says Sam Harris, author ot The End of Faith, who argues that Buddhism’s philosophy, insight, and practices would benefit more people if they were not presented as a religion.

http://mambo.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2903&Itemid=247

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Erasmus

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Re: The End of Buddhism
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 09:14:30 PM »
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
... Buddhism’s philosophy, insight, and practices would benefit more people if they were not presented as a religion.

Without following up on the link, I think I would agree with this somewhat blanket statement.

However, it should be noted that not all Buddhists present Buddhism as a religion.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Daniel

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Re: The End of Buddhism
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 06:36:38 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
However, it should be noted that not all Buddhists present Buddhism as a religion.


For instance: Buddhism Without Beliefs.

The End of Buddhism
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 05:02:35 PM »
I think that Buddhism isn't inherently a religion, as it does not exclude other religions from it's belief.
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
-Nathaniel Branden

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Ubuntu

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The End of Buddhism
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 05:09:30 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
I think that Buddhism isn't inherently a religion, as it does not exclude other religions from it's belief.


A friend of mine used Buddhism in a sense to escape from Catholicism.

The End of Buddhism
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 05:37:00 PM »
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
Quote from: "Astantia"
I think that Buddhism isn't inherently a religion, as it does not exclude other religions from it's belief.


A friend of mine used Buddhism in a sense to escape from Catholicism.


Escape from, but not to attack it.
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
-Nathaniel Branden

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Ubuntu

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The End of Buddhism
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 05:46:29 PM »
Although he often contemplates papal assassination...

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: The End of Buddhism
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 08:35:56 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
However, it should be noted that not all Buddhists present Buddhism as a religion.


Indeed. I believe in many of the sayings of Buddhism as all-around sayings, and the only thing, really, that separates it from non-religious atheists as a whole is that there are organized sessions contemplating how to better construct their lives.

What I can't say I agree on, though, is "killing Buddhism." What's wrong about being faithful to a person? I see difficulties presenting themselves when blind faith of a greater deity that transcends mortality comes into play, quite assuredly, but basically Buddhism is more "worshipping" a guy because he was a really, really good person, not because he has ultimate power over them. Thus, I figure what's the problem with loyalty to a religion if the religion doesn't worship an almighty God that tells them to kill people? I think that, now, is to the point where it's simply intolerance of any sort of faith in the first place, which is merely nonsensical, really.

~D-Draw

The End of Buddhism
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 12:52:13 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
I think that Buddhism isn't inherently a religion, as it does not exclude other religions from it's belief.


I dont think a prerequisite of religion is the exclusion of other religions.
ny Conspiricy without a secret society more than 1000 years old isn't worth thinking about

The End of Buddhism
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 05:36:28 PM »
Quote from: "Oliwoli"
Quote from: "Astantia"
I think that Buddhism isn't inherently a religion, as it does not exclude other religions from it's belief.


I dont think a prerequisite of religion is the exclusion of other religions.


Then Buddhism is a religion?  What about Agnosticism?  Is that a religion?
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
-Nathaniel Branden

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midgard

  • 1300
The End of Buddhism
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2007, 06:12:11 AM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
I think that Buddhism isn't inherently a religion, as it does not exclude other religions from it's belief.


Quote from: "Oliwoli"
I dont think a prerequisite of religion is the exclusion of other religions.


Quote from: "Astantia"
What about Agnosticism?  Is that a religion?


Nope. Bahaiism (not sure about spelling) is though. That's a religion that's inclusive of other religions and not exclusive.

The End of Buddhism
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2007, 08:29:43 AM »
Bahaii has an awsome symbol. Its like the star of david, but with twice as many points. You can tell they only came up with it to beat the Jews.

I would say that a religion is any belief about Gods or the Afterlife. I would say that ATheism IS a religion, just one that is based on observable things.
ny Conspiricy without a secret society more than 1000 years old isn't worth thinking about

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jk12

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The End of Buddhism
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2007, 02:56:37 PM »
Buddhism is a means is discover ourselves, to achieve enlightenment. Once enlightenment has been found the religious dogma is abandoned, thats if it was ever there for the individual in the first place.
am I the only one here who breaks can openers?

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18C

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Re: The End of Buddhism
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2007, 04:40:35 PM »
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
Quote from: "Erasmus"
However, it should be noted that not all Buddhists present Buddhism as a religion.


Indeed. I believe in many of the sayings of Buddhism as all-around sayings, and the only thing, really, that separates it from non-religious atheists as a whole is that there are organized sessions contemplating how to better construct their lives.

What I can't say I agree on, though, is "killing Buddhism." What's wrong about being faithful to a person? I see difficulties presenting themselves when blind faith of a greater deity that transcends mortality comes into play, quite assuredly, but basically Buddhism is more "worshipping" a guy because he was a really, really good person, not because he has ultimate power over them. Thus, I figure what's the problem with loyalty to a religion if the religion doesn't worship an almighty God that tells them to kill people? I think that, now, is to the point where it's simply intolerance of any sort of faith in the first place, which is merely nonsensical, really.

~D-Draw


Well said.  I see nothing wrong with keeping Buddhism.  Religion is such a touchy subject these days because lots of people are really sensitive to criticism about it.
Drama: The breakfast of champions.

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Dioptimus Drime

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The End of Buddhism
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2007, 05:37:07 PM »
Quote from: "jk12"
Buddhism is a means is discover ourselves, to achieve enlightenment. Once enlightenment has been found the religious dogma is abandoned, thats if it was ever there for the individual in the first place.

Buddhism is a means to become a better person. Enlightenment is secondary (at least in most sects of Buddhism; Zen Buddhism, for example, slightly different as they devote most of their time reaching enlightenment). Nevertheless, I still fail to see how Buddhism can be "harmful" as a religion. I do agree with some of what Mr. Sam Harris says, but that quote is simply intolerant of faith in general.

Personally, I disagree with the idea that faithfulness and fidelity is what we need to get rid of in this world. Faithful ignorance and loyalty to someone who would wish to harm others (a la Christianity and possibly Islam and Hinduism if taken in extreme quantities) are obviously necessary to rid ourselves of, because they simply spark distrust and warring, but what's wrong with faithfulness in general? Should we not trust anybody? Should we live being completely paranoid of any beliefs someone may have, scared that someone might trust in one another too much? That's just going too far, honestly.

~D-Draw

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Ubuntu

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The End of Buddhism
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2007, 05:48:12 PM »
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
Buddhism is a means to become a better person.


We can do this better if we don't treat Buddhism as a religion. The teachings are more useful if they are only one of many pools of thought in your mind and you treat them as fallible and errant.

Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
I do agree with some of what Mr. Sam Harris says, but that quote is simply intolerant of faith in general.


Can you supply any reasons why we should tolerate irrational thinking?

Note that "faith" is not the same thing as "faithfulness." What has to do with believing (usually absurd things) without logic and evidence, and the other, unrelated, is love and loyalty to a person.