Space Travel

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Space Travel
« on: October 25, 2018, 09:11:20 AM »
Why is Space travel impossible on a flat earth?

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 10:19:56 AM »
The flat earth hypothesis needs it to be impossible so the photographs showing a globular can be dismissed as fake.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 10:22:53 AM »
The flat earth hypothesis needs it to be impossible so the photographs showing a globular can be dismissed as fake.

That's not what I said. I asked why in the flat earth model is space travel not possible? and if it is why have no flat earth people tried?

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 10:45:17 AM »
The flat earth hypothesis needs it to be impossible so the photographs showing a globular can be dismissed as fake.

That's not what I said. I asked why in the flat earth model is space travel not possible? and if it is why have no flat earth people tried?

Either lack of resources, conspiracy, or dome are popular dodges.
I would go with "bad at math".


Re: Space Travel
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 11:35:16 AM »
I think his attempt fell flat..

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markjo

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Re: Space Travel
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 11:51:18 AM »
The flat earth hypothesis needs it to be impossible so the photographs showing a globular can be dismissed as fake.

That's not what I said. I asked why in the flat earth model is space travel not possible? and if it is why have no flat earth people tried?
One generally accepted thought among FE'ers is that space flight, in and of itself, is possible.  That is, it is possible to to briefly reach great heights using rockets.  However, sustained space flight (such as orbiting the earth) is impossible because orbits require the satellite to constantly "fall over the curvature" of the earth.  Since the earth is flat, there is no curvature to "fall over".
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 01:50:52 PM »
If you live i the UA-verse you get high enough, the UA would keep you afloat.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Space Travel
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 02:01:12 PM »
Why is Space travel impossible on a flat earth?

It's not. I have no idea why some flatheads think it is. Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, so clearly space travel is possible from a flat Earth. Granted, he only travelled 10,000 miles round trip, not the claimed 500,000, but he was still in space.

Note, strictly speaking, space travel is not possible ON either a flat or a round Earth because if you are ON the Earth you're not in space. But we know the Earth is flat because this is the Flat Earth Society discussion board, and we know that Armstrong walked on the moon because he's an American hero and anybody who calls him a liar is a stink bug.

So, yes, space travel is perfectly compatible with a flat Earth.

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JCM

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Re: Space Travel
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 02:16:52 PM »
Why is Space travel impossible on a flat earth?

It's not. I have no idea why some flatheads think it is. Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, so clearly space travel is possible from a flat Earth. Granted, he only travelled 10,000 miles round trip, not the claimed 500,000, but he was still in space.

Note, strictly speaking, space travel is not possible ON either a flat or a round Earth because if you are ON the Earth you're not in space. But we know the Earth is flat because this is the Flat Earth Society discussion board, and we know that Armstrong walked on the moon because he's an American hero and anybody who calls him a liar is a stink bug.

So, yes, space travel is perfectly compatible with a flat Earth.

If space travel is compatible, then why do flat earthers deny every aspect of space travel?

  If the Earth were flat, then rockets wouldn’t go up and then curve to apparent horizontal as seen in every single space launch I have ever seen.  On a flat Earth with or without gravity, why go horizontal?  On a flat earth I see zero reason to go horizontal.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 06:27:10 AM »
The flat earth hypothesis needs it to be impossible so the photographs showing a globular can be dismissed as fake.

That's not what I said. I asked why in the flat earth model is space travel not possible? and if it is why have no flat earth people tried?

I still think my answer is the correct one. You won't get any actual science as to why from them because that is the reason.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Space Travel
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 07:40:35 AM »
Why is Space travel impossible on a flat earth?

It's not. I have no idea why some flatheads think it is. Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, so clearly space travel is possible from a flat Earth. Granted, he only travelled 10,000 miles round trip, not the claimed 500,000, but he was still in space.

Note, strictly speaking, space travel is not possible ON either a flat or a round Earth because if you are ON the Earth you're not in space. But we know the Earth is flat because this is the Flat Earth Society discussion board, and we know that Armstrong walked on the moon because he's an American hero and anybody who calls him a liar is a stink bug.

So, yes, space travel is perfectly compatible with a flat Earth.

If space travel is compatible, then why do flat earthers deny every aspect of space travel?

  If the Earth were flat, then rockets wouldn’t go up and then curve to apparent horizontal as seen in every single space launch I have ever seen.  On a flat Earth with or without gravity, why go horizontal?  On a flat earth I see zero reason to go horizontal.

Flat-Earthers all agree that the Earth is flat, but are widely divided on other aspects of the theory. Some flat-Earthers have, for reasons that mystify me, latched onto ideas that are contradicted by the facts. I don't think you will find a flat-Earther who will deny that not all agree on every aspect of the theory. Some FE-ers do (again for reasons that mystify me) deny space travel or even space itself. Some deny that humans have walked on the moon. But these odd notions have nothing to do with the flat Earth. Some round-Earthers believe in astrology or homeopathy or crystal power or the transubstantiation of the Eucharist. And some flat-Earthers believe that space does not exist or that the moon landings were a hoax. But all of this is beside the point of the shape of the Earth.

As for rockets "curving toward the horizon" how else would they go anywhere other than straight up? How else would they go around to the underside? Even with the moon only 5,000 miles away, it's helpful for the rocket to go under the Earth a few times to get a bit of an extra boost.

We flat-Earthers have to reject those variations on FET that don't agree with observable facts, and stick with the central truth of the Earth's shape. Don't make up theories that are unnecessary for our basic premise.

Space travel is real. Armstrong and others walked on the moon. And the Earth is flat. Well, except for mountains. And valleys. And the sea floor. And when bits move around during an earthquake.

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rabinoz

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Re: Space Travel
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2018, 08:07:17 PM »
Flat-Earthers all agree that the Earth is flat, but are widely divided on other aspects of the theory. Some flat-Earthers have, for reasons that mystify me, latched onto ideas that are contradicted by the facts. I don't think you will find a flat-Earther who will deny that not all agree on every aspect of the theory. Some FE-ers do (again for reasons that mystify me) deny space travel or even space itself.
Possibly because space travel has proved evidence that is hard to deny that the earth is really a rotating Globe. Such as this post that you seem to have ignored:
But I accept all of modern science.
So you "accept all of modern science".
But modern science not only accepts space missions as possible but accepts that photographs from those space missions are valid evidence.

For example: NASA SCIENCE, MARS Mars Exploration Program: Mars Before and After Dust Storm

So, presumably you also accept photos from other spacecraft such as:
Quote
NASA SCIENCE, SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: Face of Earth

Source: NASA/NOAA
Published: January 30, 2018
Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite's EPIC maintains a constant view of the fully illuminated Earth as it rotates, providing scientific observations of ozone, vegetation, cloud height and aerosols in the atmosphere.

About twice a year the camera captures the Moon and Earth together as the orbit of DSCOVR crosses the orbital plane of the Moon.
These images were taken between 3:50 p.m. and 8:45 p.m. EDT showing the moon moving over the Pacific Ocean near North America.
The North Pole is in the upper left corner of the image. It is in the original orientation as taken by the spacecraft.

This image from the Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite captured a unique view of the Moon as it moved in front of the sunlit side of Earth in 2015.
It shows a view of the farside of the Moon, which faces the Sun. I found this perspective profoundly moving and only through our satellite views could this have been shared.

                                             
- Michael Freilich, Director NASA Earth Science Division
And photos like this seem to imply that the earth is certainly a rotating Globe.

Quote from: magellanclavichord
Some deny that humans have walked on the moon. But these odd notions have nothing to do with the flat Earth. Some round-Earthers believe in astrology or homeopathy or crystal power or the transubstantiation of the Eucharist. And some flat-Earthers believe that space does not exist or that the moon landings were a hoax. But all of this is beside the point of the shape of the Earth.

As for rockets "curving toward the horizon" how else would they go anywhere other than straight up?
You ask, "How else would they go anywhere other than straight up?
They go "curving toward the horizon" because for a satellite to orbit the earth
         it is not simply "going up into space", that's easy but
         it must gain as well as gain elevation it must gain the needed horizontal velocity to orbit at the required altitude.
For many space missions, the spacecraft are first put into a Low Earth Orbit so that the orbital parameters can be precisely ascertained.
In many cases, this LEO is at about 200 km for which the orbital velocity is 7784 m/s (28,023.3 km/hr or 17413 mph).
Only about 11% of the energy expended to orbit is expended "gaining altitude" the rest is achieving orbital velocity.
Have a look at: ROCKET SCIENCE: Ascent Trajectories and the Gravity Turn.

"Flat gravity turn" and, in red, the Falcon 9's initial "steep gravity turn" to assist in the first stage "boostback".

Quote from: magellanclavichord
How else would they go around to the underside? Even with the moon only 5,000 miles away, it's helpful for the rocket to go under the Earth a few times to get a bit of an extra boost.
And "how else would they go around" the Globe.

I thought that the flat-earth moon was about 3000 miles away and a rocket could fly straight there.

Quote from: magellanclavichord
We flat-Earthers have to reject those variations on FET that don't agree with observable facts, and stick with the central truth of the Earth's shape. Don't make up theories that are unnecessary for our basic premise.

Space travel is real. Armstrong and others walked on the moon. And the Earth is flat. Well, except for mountains. And valleys. And the sea floor. And when bits move around during an earthquake.
But Newtonian gravitation would crush a finite flat earth into a spherical shape and gravitation.
Then Newtonian mechanics would prohibit the sun, moon, planets and stars simply circling above a flat earth unless you can show some "mechanism" to hold them up and keep them in  roughly circular orbits.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Space Travel
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2018, 12:59:25 PM »
Sorry. I didn't mean to ignore the post. I just don't have an answer. There are lots of things I don't have answers for, so I didn't consider it too big a deal that I don't have one for this. But earlier I was trying to explain to my fellow flatheads that their rocket arguments don't disprove the existence of space or of space travel. It will take smarter people than me to answer the questions in the post I failed to reply to. But I didn't want to remain silent, because denying space or the moon landings does nothing to strengthen the argument for a flat Earth. When FE-ers accuse someone of the stature and integrity of Neil Armstrong of lying, they make all us flatheads seem like cranks.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 01:06:56 PM »
Sorry. I didn't mean to ignore the post. I just don't have an answer. There are lots of things I don't have answers for, so I didn't consider it too big a deal that I don't have one for this. But earlier I was trying to explain to my fellow flatheads that their rocket arguments don't disprove the existence of space or of space travel. It will take smarter people than me to answer the questions in the post I failed to reply to. But I didn't want to remain silent, because denying space or the moon landings does nothing to strengthen the argument for a flat Earth. When FE-ers accuse someone of the stature and integrity of Neil Armstrong of lying, they make all us flatheads seem like cranks.

If yu havnt already done so, As a person who belives in basic science, but admittedly doesnt know all, why do you believe the earth flat?
New threa req'd.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Space Travel
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2018, 05:04:26 PM »
If yu havnt already done so, As a person who belives in basic science, but admittedly doesnt know all, why do you believe the earth flat?
New threa req'd.

Yeah, I think that would be off the topic of this thread, and I'm not sure but I think the moderators are pretty strict about that kind of thing. If you want to link to a "Why do you think the Earth is flat?" thread I'll see if I can post something cogent. All I see under FE Debate are a lot of "I can prove you're wrong" and What's your evidence" type threads.

I'm going on a trip in a few days, though, and will be off line for a while. Not running away or leaving the FES discussion board, just not active on the internet for a while. Not sure I'll have time to start a whole new topic before I'm back on line. But it seems like a good topic for when I get back.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2018, 09:29:21 AM »
Look forward to it. Why you believe something is the basis for any theory.