Space Travel

  • 76 Replies
  • 6459 Views
Space Travel
« on: October 25, 2018, 08:25:24 AM »
Elon Musk launched the falcon heavy not long ago, the event was watched by the thousands of people in attendance and millions of TV. If this is fake then did they get thousands of people to lie about it? and if space travel is impossible how can a rocket visibly launch into high orbit?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 08:32:24 AM by Dirty Globalist »

*

Bullwinkle

  • The Elder Ones
  • 20133
  • Standard Idiot
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 08:34:58 AM »
.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 08:43:10 AM »
.


This is an illution with a doll for people on a stage in a controlled space and has nothing to do with my quetions. Are you saying that the Elon Musk some how made the illution of a rocket? and if so can you give some explanation for how that is remotely possible? or evidence? Are you saying that Elon built the largest Rocket in history costing billions of dollars to fake a take off? and he somehow made a massive object have a massive explotion under it then have it fly into orbit and then he made it magically disapear? none of this makes any sence.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 09:09:45 AM by Dirty Globalist »

?

dutchy

  • 2366
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 12:05:18 PM »
Elon Musk launched the falcon heavy not long ago, the event was watched by the thousands of people in attendance and millions of TV. If this is fake then did they get thousands of people to lie about it? and if space travel is impossible how can a rocket visibly launch into high orbit?



As clearly seen in the footage...... those rockets are going anywhere but space as claimed in this image :
The moment the rocket leans into a more in horizontal mode, the rocket should be some 120 km /393700 ft up in the skies.
That is over four times the altitude a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird has for an altitude record (26 km)


Now look at the SpaceX rocket footage and you see a rocket at modest height flying way to horizontal to ever reach space according to the NASA imagery propaganda.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42013
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 01:10:58 PM »
Elon Musk launched the falcon heavy not long ago, the event was watched by the thousands of people in attendance and millions of TV. If this is fake then did they get thousands of people to lie about it? and if space travel is impossible how can a rocket visibly launch into high orbit?



As clearly seen in the footage...... those rockets are going anywhere but space as claimed in this image :
The moment the rocket leans into a more in horizontal mode, the rocket should be some 120 km /393700 ft up in the skies.
Clearly?  Nonsense.  There really isn't any way to accurately determine the speed and direction that a distant object is moving when you're looking at it from below and an odd angle.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 02:11:07 PM »
... if space travel is impossible how can a rocket visibly launch into high orbit?

Rather than double-posting, here's a link to where I answered your question in your other thread:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=78201.msg2111024#msg2111024

Short version: Space travel is easier from a flat Earth than from a round one. Armstrong is not a liar. Armstrong went to the moon and Elon Musk's rockets go into space.  It baffles me why some flat-Earthers think we can't have space travel.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 03:25:10 PM »
As clearly seen in the footage...... those rockets are going anywhere but space as claimed in this image :
The moment the rocket leans into a more in horizontal mode, the rocket should be some 120 km /393700 ft up in the skies.
That is over four times the altitude a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird has for an altitude record (26 km)


Now look at the SpaceX rocket footage and you see a rocket at modest height flying way to horizontal to ever reach space according to the NASA imagery propaganda.

That "image" is an explanatory graphic illustrating the sequence of major events in the launch timeline. It clearly isn't to scale; for a hint, look at the altitude - you seem to have picked up on the fact that it's provided - compared with the representation of the earth and the size of the equipment in the illustration. Compared to the radius of the earth (~6,800 km), 189 km is "modest".

Did you really not know this, or are you intentionally trying to misrepresent what that graphic is showing? I'll use Hanlon's Razor and presume that you're just being obtuse instead of lying.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 03:59:48 PM »
Elon Musk launched the falcon heavy not long ago, the event was watched by the thousands of people in attendance and millions of TV. If this is fake then did they get thousands of people to lie about it? and if space travel is impossible how can a rocket visibly launch into high orbit?



As clearly seen in the footage...... those rockets are going anywhere but space as claimed in this image :
The moment the rocket leans into a more in horizontal mode, the rocket should be some 120 km /393700 ft up in the skies.
That is over four times the altitude a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird has for an altitude record (26 km)


Now look at the SpaceX rocket footage and you see a rocket at modest height flying way to horizontal to ever reach space according to the NASA imagery propaganda.
No, you do not "see a rocket at a modest height flying way too horizontal to ever reach space"!
Here's an example with telemetry for you to work on:

SpaceX Falcon 9 SES-9 launch, footage from Cocoa Beach with telemetry

As with all flat-earthers you have no understanding of the perspective view of objects moving away especially over a globe. Even you patron saint, Dr Samuel Birley Rowbotham undesstands it better the you!
Quote
CHAPTER IX.
CAUSE OF SUNRISE AND SUNSET.
ALTHOUGH the sun is at all times above the earth's surface, it appears in the morning to ascend from the north-east to the noonday position, and thence to descend and disappear, or set, in the north-west. This phenomenon arises from the operation of a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective. A flock of birds, when passing over a flat or marshy country, always appears to descend is it recedes; and if the flock is extensive, the first bird appears lower or nearer to the horizon than the last, although they are at the same actual altitude above the earth immediately beneath them. When a balloon sails away from an observer, without increasing or decreasing its altitude, it appears to gradually approach the horizon. In a long row of lamps, the second--supposing the observer to stand at the beginning of the series---will appear lower than the first; the third lower than the .second; and so on to the end of the row; the farthest away always appearing the lowest, although each one has the same altitude; and if such a straight line of lamps could be continued far enough, the lights would at length descend, apparently, to the horizon, or to a level with the eye of the observer, as shown in the following diagram, fig. 63.

FIG. 63.

Now, dutchy, you have made the categorical claim,
"Now look at the SpaceX rocket footage and you see a rocket at modest height flying way to horizontal to ever reach space according to the NASA imagery propaganda."
So now it is up to YOU to prove your case!

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2018, 10:19:04 AM »
A couple of months ago I did a course on Astro photography in Wales. The leader of the group took a wonderful long exposure shot that included the ISS whizzing along. The image made it appear like a comet, really cool. In true Zetetic tradition I observed it with a pair of ordinary low tech X10 binoculars and marvelled at its speed across the sky, many times faster than any aircraft. The leader of the group knew to almost the second of when it would come into view and exactly where it would be using a phone app. The question here is about space travel, that can be easily answered by using true Zetetic principles. Get an app that predicts where the ISS will pass a location near where you live. Go to that location armed with a pair of binoculars and see for yourself.....job done. No need for any conspiracy you can either prove it to be true or false for yourself.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2018, 12:40:55 PM »
I was on a live-aboard dive boat once when one of the other divers told us the ISS was going to pass overhead that evening shortly after dark. The crew helpfully turned off the lights and we all went to the upper deck and watched it pass overhead. Of course its actual speed cannot be determined from its apparent speed without knowing its altitude, but it was pretty cool that we could actually see it. I think for best viewing you want the ISS in sunlight while it's dark at your location. NASA's web site has a page where you can get sighting times and directions for your location if you don't want to bother downloading an app.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2018, 01:47:49 PM »
I was on a live-aboard dive boat once when one of the other divers told us the ISS was going to pass overhead that evening shortly after dark. The crew helpfully turned off the lights and we all went to the upper deck and watched it pass overhead. Of course its actual speed cannot be determined from its apparent speed without knowing its altitude, but it was pretty cool that we could actually see it. I think for best viewing you want the ISS in sunlight while it's dark at your location. NASA's web site has a page where you can get sighting times and directions for your location if you don't want to bother downloading an app.

So what’s you opinion on the images of the earth taken from the ISS like this one?


Being in a lowish orbit of only 408 Km an image of the whole earth is not quite possible, though images like this one do suggest that the world is a globe. It also calls into question both the dome and the ice wall. No matter how hard you look you will never see an image that suggests an ice wall and with the ISS in otbit it blows away the idea of the existance of a dome.

The whole idea of a Zetetic approach to questioning the universe is very much one favoured by flat earth thinkers. If you want more info on that ask John Davis as he is, I believe, a self proclaimed Zetetic scientist and leader of this very flat earth society. There may also be info on their Q&A or on their Wiki.

*

rvlvr

  • 2142
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2018, 01:12:56 AM »
The question here is about space travel, that can be easily answered by using true Zetetic principles. Get an app that predicts where the ISS will pass a location near where you live. Go to that location armed with a pair of binoculars and see for yourself.....job done. No need for any conspiracy you can either prove it to be true or false for yourself.
But it is so hard! And it might not fit the narrative :(

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2018, 02:05:55 AM »
The question here is about space travel, that can be easily answered by using true Zetetic principles. Get an app that predicts where the ISS will pass a location near where you live. Go to that location armed with a pair of binoculars and see for yourself.....job done. No need for any conspiracy you can either prove it to be true or false for yourself.
But it is so hard! And it might not fit the narrative :(

Which part of it do you consider hard? As for fitting the narrative you have really hit the nail on the head. If you spend all your time trying to make all the evidence fit a firmly held  narrative you will firstly have to create elaborate alternatives along with a number of conspiracies to explain away inconviences plus a list of things you simply just deny.
Space travel from the FE perspective requires a mixture of all three with a villain thrown in for good measure. Just read any past thread on Space X or the ISS for example.
I’ve seen the ISS go whizzing by, its shape is easily made out and instantly recognisable. There is a live feed on YouTube along with info on its course. Rockets go up to re-supply and change personnel, that’s when they work! Look what happened to the recent Soyuz mission!

https://www.space.com/42097-soyuz-rocket-launch-failure-expedition-57-crew.html

To explain away all the above requires the creation of a very complex alternative narrative that lacks any facts but is big on story. Read any thread on the topic of space travel and you will see them all come into play.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 02:09:07 AM by Lonegranger »

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2018, 05:17:41 AM »
A couple of months ago I did a course on Astro photography in Wales. The leader of the group took a wonderful long exposure shot that included the ISS whizzing along. The image made it appear like a comet, really cool. In true Zetetic tradition I observed it with a pair of ordinary low tech X10 binoculars and marvelled at its speed across the sky, many times faster than any aircraft. The leader of the group knew to almost the second of when it would come into view and exactly where it would be using a phone app. The question here is about space travel, that can be easily answered by using true Zetetic principles. Get an app that predicts where the ISS will pass a location near where you live. Go to that location armed with a pair of binoculars and see for yourself.....job done. No need for any conspiracy you can either prove it to be true or false for yourself.
That’s the problem with many FE’ers, they read “zetetic” as “only trust your own senses” and discard any technology, telemetrics, measurements, observations made by reliable sources with advanced tools. This, of course, is a very useful mindset if you believe in something like a pizza shaped earth.
Be gentle

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2018, 06:45:50 AM »
I was on a live-aboard dive boat once when one of the other divers told us the ISS was going to pass overhead that evening shortly after dark. The crew helpfully turned off the lights and we all went to the upper deck and watched it pass overhead. Of course its actual speed cannot be determined from its apparent speed without knowing its altitude, but it was pretty cool that we could actually see it. I think for best viewing you want the ISS in sunlight while it's dark at your location. NASA's web site has a page where you can get sighting times and directions for your location if you don't want to bother downloading an app.

So what’s you opinion on the images of the earth taken from the ISS like this one?


Being in a lowish orbit of only 408 Km an image of the whole earth is not quite possible, though images like this one do suggest that the world is a globe. It also calls into question both the dome and the ice wall. No matter how hard you look you will never see an image that suggests an ice wall and with the ISS in otbit it blows away the idea of the existance of a dome.

The whole idea of a Zetetic approach to questioning the universe is very much one favoured by flat earth thinkers. If you want more info on that ask John Davis as he is, I believe, a self proclaimed Zetetic scientist and leader of this very flat earth society. There may also be info on their Q&A or on their Wiki.

In the picture, I see a flat disk. Very much like a pancake or a dime or a cookie.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't really know what "zetetic" means, or if "zetetic scientist" is a real thing or an oxymoron. I don't know John Davis, but I suspect that we could have some interesting conversations if we met over a beer. I'm not a formal member of the FES, so I really know nothing about the Society. I came here to this discussion board to read and talk about ideas, and one of the things I've learned is that I disagree with a lot of flatheads on many of the details of FET.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 11:04:35 AM »
I was on a live-aboard dive boat once when one of the other divers told us the ISS was going to pass overhead that evening shortly after dark. The crew helpfully turned off the lights and we all went to the upper deck and watched it pass overhead. Of course its actual speed cannot be determined from its apparent speed without knowing its altitude, but it was pretty cool that we could actually see it. I think for best viewing you want the ISS in sunlight while it's dark at your location. NASA's web site has a page where you can get sighting times and directions for your location if you don't want to bother downloading an app.

So what’s you opinion on the images of the earth taken from the ISS like this one?


Being in a lowish orbit of only 408 Km an image of the whole earth is not quite possible, though images like this one do suggest that the world is a globe. It also calls into question both the dome and the ice wall. No matter how hard you look you will never see an image that suggests an ice wall and with the ISS in otbit it blows away the idea of the existance of a dome.

The whole idea of a Zetetic approach to questioning the universe is very much one favoured by flat earth thinkers. If you want more info on that ask John Davis as he is, I believe, a self proclaimed Zetetic scientist and leader of this very flat earth society. There may also be info on their Q&A or on their Wiki.

In the picture, I see a flat disk. Very much like a pancake or a dime or a cookie.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't really know what "zetetic" means, or if "zetetic scientist" is a real thing or an oxymoron. I don't know John Davis, but I suspect that we could have some interesting conversations if we met over a beer. I'm not a formal member of the FES, so I really know nothing about the Society. I came here to this discussion board to read and talk about ideas, and one of the things I've learned is that I disagree with a lot of flatheads on many of the details of FET.

If it indeed were a disc  this shot would look very different, as would how it’s lit by the sun, just think about it. Do you not also think given the number of people who have been up in orbit that someone may have noticed and mentioned it, “oh by the way the earth is flat”. Of course the ISS is only one of many orbiting craft that have taken images from numerous nations, what about those that quite clearly show the earth to be a sphere just like  all the other planets and moons. This is where the conspiracy kicks in. The claim the earth is flat has no evidence or credibility. But in the end people can believe what they wish.

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2018, 12:38:29 PM »

In the picture, I see a flat disk. Very much like a pancake or a dime or a cookie.

No, you don't.

I get it. You can be whoever you want to to be on the internet. But at least be honest with YOURSELF!

I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2018, 01:50:33 PM »
Elon Musk has no rockets, he can't even make Tesla right and you talking about Space travel? LOL The guy is just another spoiled rich kid inspired by George Lucas.
JJA voted for Pedro

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2018, 02:12:31 PM »
To mag

How far out to sea did your dive boat take you?

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2018, 02:14:57 PM »
To mag

And IF you believe the photo real, and flat like a disk, how you figure the land mass is up near the edge?

Those there would be able to see down into the abyss.
There is a faint light of a city.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 03:46:37 PM »
Elon Musk has no rockets,
Well he doesn't have this one any more! He sent it off to space with his red Tesla Roadster on board:I hope you note that it was broadcast by the "TWiT Netcast Network", obviously escpecially for people like you!

Quote from: New Earth
he can't even make Tesla right
Really? Go and ask David McLeod what he thinks of his Tesla!

Beach? Who needs a Pickup. $TSLA MS with air suspension set very high,
all wheel drive, traction control and slip start engaged. No problems beach driving on Kangaroo Island Australia.

Of course Elon Musk has one less ten-year-old Tesla! Here it is:

Elon Musk's Tesla and Falcon Heavy Fairing.
         


Elon Musk's Tesla, "lost" in space.

Quote from: New Earth
and you talking about Space travel?
Yes, we're "talking about Space travel" and SpaceX and dozens of other organisations are doing just that!

Quote from: New Earth
LOL The guy is just another spoiled rich kid inspired by George Lucas.
Maybe he " is just another spoiled rich kid", but that is totally irrelevant to the reality of space missions.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2018, 04:14:09 PM »
Elon Musk has no rockets, he can't even make Tesla right and you talking about Space travel? LOL The guy is just another spoiled rich kid inspired by George Lucas.

You say Elon Musk has no rockets! Have you never heard of his company Space X that regularly launches rockets! In fact they have launched 62 rockets as of Oct 8th.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2018, 04:31:34 PM »
Elon Musk has no rockets, he can't even make Tesla right and you talking about Space travel? LOL The guy is just another spoiled rich kid inspired by George Lucas.

Well, he doesn't personally have any rockets, but he's the CEO of a company that builds and launches rockets. And I can tell you that my Tesla Model 3 is the coolest car there is, surpassed only by the higher trim lines of the same car than I got. That is, the dual-motor performance Model 3 is cooler than my RWD Model 3.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2018, 04:36:18 PM »
To mag

How far out to sea did your dive boat take you?

The one where we saw the ISS sailed from Florida (Ft. Lauderdale, IIRC, but not sure) to the U.S. Virgin Islands. Nowhere near the edge. FWIW, the diving was not as good there as in either Cozumel or Little Cayman or Long Caye, Glover's Reef, Belize, which was a couple of hours' boat ride from the mainland. I usually try to avoid long sea voyages because I get seasick.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2018, 04:43:07 PM »
To mag

And IF you believe the photo real, and flat like a disk, how you figure the land mass is up near the edge?

Those there would be able to see down into the abyss.
There is a faint light of a city.

The picture is not real size. It's probably actually pretty far to the edge from any city. It would have to be or all the people would fall off. And to clarify: Just because the Earth is flat, doesn't mean there's a square edge. No globehead would say the Earth is a perfect sphere, and no flathead will say it's perfectly flat with a perfect vertical drop at the edge. Now, I've never been there so I don't know what the edge is like, but for all I know there could be a rounded edge so that you cannot actually see over the edge until you're standing on such a slope that you'd slip off and never be able to report your findings to anyone.

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2018, 06:45:40 PM »
Can you imagine how much people would pay to bungee jumping the edge of the Earth?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2018, 05:59:34 AM »
Can you imagine how much people would pay to bungee jumping the edge of the Earth?

What if there's no air there? You'd need a space suit. Or what if the "edge" is actually so gradual that it takes a mile of bungee cord to get from where you can actually stand to where you're falling free? Or what if gravity is (as modern physics says) directed toward the center of mass so that close to the edge you're actually pulled back in, rather than off into space? Or what if the edge is all ocean like Discworld and it's all just water going off the edge? In that case, you'd just fall until you landed on another planet, and maybe there would be no chocolate there. Or what if gravity gets so strong as you go off the edge that no bungee cord is strong enough and you just fall forever into the abyss?

I'd suggest finding out what's actually there and how the edge works before bungee jumping off.

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2018, 07:16:38 AM »
What if sharks had chainsaws for teeth?

How scary would THAT be??
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

Re: Space Travel
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2018, 07:21:45 AM »
If you believe the ISS exists and that it can be accurately predicted as to where it appears at a given time. How do you explain on the Flat Earth the smooth transition that predicted and observed path takes from country to country, trans-hemisphere, without some sudden break in the smooth path in order to double back round the underside of the earth?

?

JCM

  • 245
Re: Space Travel
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2018, 09:05:47 AM »
If you believe the ISS exists and that it can be accurately predicted as to where it appears at a given time. How do you explain on the Flat Earth the smooth transition that predicted and observed path takes from country to country, trans-hemisphere, without some sudden break in the smooth path in order to double back round the underside of the earth?

Exactly..  you can even pretend the ISS is a blimp and no one is on it.  The fact is, IT IS THERE.

1. ISS is real, or at least something is there, and it’s man made
2. It is moving incredibly fast, faster then anything else on the planet
3. It is perfectly predictable and traceable
4. Its velocity is exactly the same all day every day
5. On a Mercator projection, its path is perfectly serpentine in motion
6. It orbits the planet in 90 minutes approximately day in and out

Now, let’s think about this a little bit.  How does a man made object flying with the same velocity fly a perfect serpentine path at incredible speeds over a flat earth?  We don’t see any deviation from that confirmed path.  Are we to believe that NASA has something which propels itself at incredible speed constantly changing vectors North then South then North every 45 minutes every single day for years.  Why doesn’t it run out of fuel or make a mistake and speed up or slow down or “miss a turn”? 

The answer of course is incredibly simple.  The Earth is a sphere and the ISS or whatever object is there, is traveling in a “straight” line curving around the Earth.  Projecting the straight line orbit on the spinning sphere onto a flat Mercator projection you get the serpentine path we see the ISS object fly every single day orbiting the planet 18 times a day.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 09:16:44 AM by JCM »