When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?

  • 72 Replies
  • 6148 Views
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2018, 10:38:10 AM »
I think the reasoning was that they had guilt for the lie whih manifested in the poor press conference.
Or, maybe they just thought that press conferences were a giant pain in the arse.
The F1 driver Kimi Räikkönen is one of those people. He likes to drive, not sit in front of, well, idiots. I'd imagine the astronauts were not that different.

Ever watch a post game press conference?

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 7116
  • Flatness as in the shape of a water droplet.
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2018, 06:32:18 PM »
I think the reasoning was that they had guilt for the lie whih manifested in the poor press conference.
Or, maybe they just thought that press conferences were a giant pain in the arse.
The F1 driver Kimi Räikkönen is one of those people. He likes to drive, not sit in front of, well, idiots. I'd imagine the astronauts were not that different.

Ever watch a post game press conference?

Rabinoz RIP

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2018, 01:14:39 AM »
When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?

Hard to give any factual answer to this other than to speculate.
Possibilities are.

1. He was trained along with others (not just him. buzz and Collins) and done all of the stuff that was set up  on a pretence of going to the moon.
It's possible that all men were under strict instructions not to divulge anything to others outside of their crew. A sort of compartmentalisation of sorts.
They done all the tests and all of the mock up stage stuff that supposedly emulated the moon, with a supposed mock up of the lander and what not.
The only thing they didn't get to sample was the rocket launch until the day came where they were ready to do just that.
It's minutely possible they were duped up until that point and then the plug was pulled from under them when launch day was upon them.
And just like the film, capricorn 1, they get told it's all a big hoax and their goal is to play it out against the Russians, in order for America to look like they are back into the so called space race and now gaining massive headway.
In that scenario it becomes a case of military mindset of "we're not doing a bad thing and duping the American public, we're doing it for the American public, to save face."

That way it gives the so called astronauts the get out of jail free cards at the time, in terms of them knowing they're doing it for their country as a need from which their patriotic military duty ensures it's a guilt free thing, until it becomes a bit more than that as time goes on.

This would explain why they were all so cagey in press conferences and why Armstrong (in particular) looked to be carrying so much guilt.
That man looked a tortured soul and found it hard to cover himself in daily coatings of guilt proof titanium that other so called astronauts managed to do and even embrace it in a fashion.

Do I blame Armstrong and the rest for going along with this stuff?
In part I do but overall I actually feel sorry for some of them for what they ventured into, only to find that a long life of tortured conscience is arguably worse than death by a thousand lashes.


The other scenario might have been them doing it and knowing it was a dupe but being told they will become heroes and have fame and fortune for them and their families to enjoy for the rest of their ,lives.
Maybe most accepted it, even reluctantly and maybe some didn't and paid the price.
Possible?
 I think anything is possible in that scenario but none of what I said could be anywhere near correct. It might be something entirely different.

What's not in dispute...for me, at least....is.... nobody went up in a big rocket to the moon and nobody has ever went up in a big rocket into space of any kind. But that's just my opinion.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2018, 02:19:43 AM »
Right.

1) "It's minutely possible they were duped up until that point and then the plug was pulled from under them when launch day was upon them."

Which might stand up as one of the wilder tin hat speculations except, as you know (I hope) 8 years went by between the first alleged manned launch and Apollo 11.

2) "nobody has ever went up in a big rocket into space of any kind."

So where did they go, then?

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2018, 03:12:46 AM »
Right.

1) "It's minutely possible they were duped up until that point and then the plug was pulled from under them when launch day was upon them."

Which might stand up as one of the wilder tin hat speculations except, as you know (I hope) 8 years went by between the first alleged manned launch and Apollo 11.
Kaysing's theory of how the Moon landing was faked
Quote
Original theory from We Never Went to the Moon: America's Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle (1976)
The launch preparation was normal. Since the Rocketdyne F-1 engines in the first stage of the Saturn V rocket were "totally unreliable," a cluster of "five booster engines of the more dependable B-1 type as used in the C-1 cluster for the Atlas missile"[16] were secretly installed, one inside each of the Saturn V's five F-1s. The five smaller rocket engines together would produce only one-half the thrust of a single F-1. The public see the astronauts enter the Apollo spacecraft, but then they disembark before liftoff via a high-speed elevator to a duplicate of the spacecraft. During this transition period, television coverage is "lost accidentally." The rocket launch appears normal, although the weight of the fueled Saturn V on the launchpad is less than one-twentieth of its original design specification, according to Kaysing. The second and third stages of the Saturn V are equipped with "mock" Rocketdyne J-2 engines. The third stage puts Apollo into a parking orbit. The astronauts are flown to a Moon set in Nevada, 80 miles from Las Vegas. Fake signals from Apollo are sent to tracking stations. The Apollo spacecraft is jettisoned into the south Polar Sea. The astronauts are comfortable in Nevada, free to wander about Las Vegas with showgirls, except for some check-ins with Mission Control. They partake of the excellent buffet served on the 24th floor of the Sands Hotel and watch color television broadcasts from a private Telstar satellite. The astronauts fake the landing and moonwalk on the Moon set. The simulated reentry of the Apollo Command Module is really a drop from a Lockheed C-5 Galaxy transport aircraft; the astronauts are flown to Hawaii, where they enter the Apollo Command Module, which is dropped out of sight of the recovery ship.

Revised theory from Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? (2001)
Quote from: Bill Kaysing
The astronauts were launched with the Saturn V. Then, in order to account for their disappearance, they simply orbited the Earth for eight days and in the interim they showed these fake pictures of the astronauts on the Moon. But on the eighth day the command console separated from the vehicle and descended to Earth as, of course, was shown in the films.
What amazes me us that virtually all of these lunar hoax conspiracists believe in the conventional heliocentric Globe.
As far as I know all seem to accept space flight and even crewed space flight to LEO.

Quote from: Didymus
2) "nobody has ever went up in a big rocket into space of any kind."

So where did they go, then?
Much of the evidence claimed by these lunar mission hoaxers relies at least on space flight and some even on crewed LEO space flight.

So flat earthers seem to be totally hypocritical to claim evidence against the reality of the lunar landings from sources like
Bill Kaysing's book We Never Went to the Moon: America's Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle and
Bart Sibrel's – 2001 film, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2018, 05:18:58 AM »
Right.

1) "It's minutely possible they were duped up until that point and then the plug was pulled from under them when launch day was upon them."

Which might stand up as one of the wilder tin hat speculations except, as you know (I hope) 8 years went by between the first alleged manned launch and Apollo 11.
Compartmentalisation between so called astronauts. A need to know. Official secrets act and all the rest of it.
Basically loose lips sink ships or families, potentially.


Quote from: Didymus
2) "nobody has ever went up in a big rocket into space of any kind."

So where did they go, then?
  Maybe to a place where they stay away from the outside world until such a time is decided when to place them in a capsule at sea that is dropped from a plane, earlier.
Any rocket launch could be  a ballistic missile that simply goes into the drink (sea), which is why they arc very quickly towards it...is one guess.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2018, 06:23:45 AM »
Maybe really isn't good enough considering the strength of conviction conspiracy theorists have in discrediting something which is built on robust actuals.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2018, 08:00:14 AM »
What amazes me us that virtually all of these lunar hoax conspiracists believe in the conventional heliocentric Globe.

Which is why I call on my fellow flat-Earthers to reject the round-Earth moon hoax conspiracy theory. The belief that the moon landings were a hoax was perpetrated by round-Earthers, and we flat-Earthers need to see through it and reject it.

There is no reason why space travel should be impossible. To deny the moon landings is to claim that an American hero and Navy test pilot is a liar, and as I've already said, anybody who says Neil Armstrong is a liar is a stink bug. So we flat-Earthers need to recognize that the moon landings were real. And there's no reason for us not to realize this. There is no reason why a flat Earth would preclude space travel. If the moon were actually a quarter of a million miles away, it might be reasonable to ask how could anybody build a rocket that could go so far. But since it's really only 5,000 miles away, it's well within the grasp of American ingenuity.

Armstrong never "found out" that it was a hoax because it wasn't a hoax.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42013
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2018, 10:05:17 AM »
When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?

Hard to give any factual answer to this other than to speculate.
Possibilities are.
Don't forget the possibility that Neil Armstrong, et al., went to the moon just like they said they did.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2018, 01:58:06 PM »
When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?

Hard to give any factual answer to this other than to speculate.
Possibilities are.
Don't forget the possibility that Neil Armstrong, et al., went to the moon just like they said they did.
I don't regard that as anything like a possibility.
You know my reasons for that, but fair comment if you genuinely believe he went.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2018, 04:14:05 PM »
One might wish to look at this question from a slightly different perspective. Why would a group of people wish to believe that a hoax was perpetrated on the whole population of the planet? At the time it was the biggest news story around with the whole world watching, especially the Russians. What would these people have to gain from maintaining that one of the most significant achievements in human history was a fraud?

?

frenat

  • 3680
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2018, 04:34:26 PM »
Compartmentalisation between so called astronauts. A need to know. Official secrets act and all the rest of it.
Basically loose lips sink ships or families, potentially.

Astronauts that trained together constantly and if they weren't on the mission or a backup for the mission they were part of the mission control running it at Houston. Please provide evidence of this supposed "compartmentalisation between astronauts" that you claim existed

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2018, 04:51:17 PM »
Don't forget the possibility that Neil Armstrong, et al., went to the moon just like they said they did.
I don't regard that as anything like a possibility.
You know my reasons for that, but fair comment if you genuinely believe he went.
All we know is your opinions which hardly count as reasons in my opinion :D at least.
You, like all other flat earthers, simply assume that the earth is flat then claim that all contrary evidence is fake and part of some imagined conspiracy,.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2018, 10:45:57 PM »
Compartmentalisation between so called astronauts. A need to know. Official secrets act and all the rest of it.
Basically loose lips sink ships or families, potentially.

Astronauts that trained together constantly and if they weren't on the mission or a backup for the mission they were part of the mission control running it at Houston. Please provide evidence of this supposed "compartmentalisation between astronauts" that you claim existed
Understand what speculation is and you won't feel the need to ask for evidence.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2018, 10:47:32 PM »
Don't forget the possibility that Neil Armstrong, et al., went to the moon just like they said they did.
I don't regard that as anything like a possibility.
You know my reasons for that, but fair comment if you genuinely believe he went.
All we know is your opinions which hardly count as reasons in my opinion :D at least.
You, like all other flat earthers, simply assume that the earth is flat then claim that all contrary evidence is fake and part of some imagined conspiracy,.
It's ok I'm absolutely well aware my thoughts mean nothing to people like yourself. I'm happy enough with that because I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I know your stance.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2018, 10:56:43 PM »
Compartmentalisation between so called astronauts. A need to know. Official secrets act and all the rest of it.
Basically loose lips sink ships or families, potentially.

Astronauts that trained together constantly and if they weren't on the mission or a backup for the mission they were part of the mission control running it at Houston. Please provide evidence of this supposed "compartmentalisation between astronauts" that you claim existed

Common. You know these Zetetics don't do proof. They make a conclusion first then look for an explanation to support that conclusion no matter how improbable it is.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2018, 11:10:16 PM »
It's ok I'm absolutely well aware my thoughts mean nothing to people like yourself. I'm happy enough with that because I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I know your stance.
That's OK. I know that evidence means nothing to you and that nothing can shift you from your own reality.

Understand what speculation is and you won't feel the need to ask for evidence.
Speculation is fine when faced with an unknown and apparently inexplicable situation but confirming evidence is needed before that hypothesis can accepted as a theory.

So many flat earthers seem to simply pile speculation on top of speculation without bothering whether it fits with known theories.

I'm sorry but before I'll accept the result of speculation I need to see confirming evidence.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:20:23 PM by rabinoz »

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2018, 01:33:33 AM »
Compartmentalisation between so called astronauts. A need to know. Official secrets act and all the rest of it.
Basically loose lips sink ships or families, potentially.

Astronauts that trained together constantly and if they weren't on the mission or a backup for the mission they were part of the mission control running it at Houston. Please provide evidence of this supposed "compartmentalisation between astronauts" that you claim existed

Common. You know these Zetetics don't do proof. They make a conclusion first then look for an explanation to support that conclusion no matter how improbable it is.

I’m not sure if you are strictly  correct on that one. I think the Zetetic method itself is not at fault it’s more the way any results are interoperated. More often or not no method at all is used in forming beliefs, as it’s often more like much repeated heresy. Things like the ice wall or dome for example. These are two things that no flat earther have ever seen with their own eyes nor have never they ever been confirmed using any known Zetetic methodology.

?

frenat

  • 3680
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2018, 05:31:09 AM »
Compartmentalisation between so called astronauts. A need to know. Official secrets act and all the rest of it.
Basically loose lips sink ships or families, potentially.

Astronauts that trained together constantly and if they weren't on the mission or a backup for the mission they were part of the mission control running it at Houston. Please provide evidence of this supposed "compartmentalisation between astronauts" that you claim existed
Understand what speculation is and you won't feel the need to ask for evidence.
In this case it seems that speculation is something you needed to make up which had no evidence backing it up. But thanks for admitting you have nothing backing up your BS.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 05:35:02 AM by frenat »

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2018, 07:34:21 AM »
Don't forget the possibility that Neil Armstrong, et al., went to the moon just like they said they did.
I don't regard that as anything like a possibility.
You know my reasons for that, but fair comment if you genuinely believe he went.
All we know is your opinions which hardly count as reasons in my opinion :D at least.
You, like all other flat earthers, simply assume that the earth is flat then claim that all contrary evidence is fake and part of some imagined conspiracy,.

Sadly, your generalization does apply to the majority of FE-ers, but not to all of us. I assume that the Earth is flat, but I do not believe that any of the evidence is fake. Rather, I say that FET must be refined, like any other theory, to be consistent with the evidence. Just as Relativity is correct but incomplete because it appears to be incompatible with quantum mechanics, so present-day FETs are incomplete because they appear to contradict the evidence. The solution is not to reject the central premise or the evidence, but rather to discover the explanation for the apparent contradictions. Physicists have not yet discovered the Unified Field Theory and flat-Earthers have not yet discovered the theory that allows a flat Earth to conform to the evidence. The Law of Entropy means that Hell must freeze over eventually, and eventually we will understand the apparent contradictions between the observed facts and the flatness of the Earth. Always keeping in mind that we don't deny the existence of mountains and valleys. There are certainly bumps and wiggles on the flat Earth.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2018, 09:38:08 AM »

Sadly, your generalization does apply to the majority of FE-ers, but not to all of us. I assume that the Earth is flat, but I do not believe that any of the evidence is fake. Rather, I say that FET must be refined, like any other theory, to be consistent with the evidence. Just as Relativity is correct but incomplete because it appears to be incompatible with quantum mechanics, so present-day FETs are incomplete because they appear to contradict the evidence. The solution is not to reject the central premise or the evidence, but rather to discover the explanation for the apparent contradictions. Physicists have not yet discovered the Unified Field Theory and flat-Earthers have not yet discovered the theory that allows a flat Earth to conform to the evidence. The Law of Entropy means that Hell must freeze over eventually, and eventually we will understand the apparent contradictions between the observed facts and the flatness of the Earth. Always keeping in mind that we don't deny the existence of mountains and valleys. There are certainly bumps and wiggles on the flat Earth.

The problems with FET are on a completely different scale to not having a unified field theory.  While it’s true that there is currently no model that completely combines relativity and quantum mechanics, both are at the extreme ends of what can be observed and well outside every day human experience.

Meanwhile no one has a flat earth model that can explain simple observations like where the sun and moon appear in the sky or a working map.

I’m afraid the flat earth has a much bigger problem than needing some refinement.  Right now the various conflicting ideas are all utterly broken.  Possibly worse is that prominent flat earthers don’t seem that interested in addressing the huge problems.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2018, 10:02:41 AM »
Don't forget the possibility that Neil Armstrong, et al., went to the moon just like they said they did.
I don't regard that as anything like a possibility.
You know my reasons for that, but fair comment if you genuinely believe he went.
All we know is your opinions which hardly count as reasons in my opinion :D at least.
You, like all other flat earthers, simply assume that the earth is flat then claim that all contrary evidence is fake and part of some imagined conspiracy,.

Sadly, your generalization does apply to the majority of FE-ers, but not to all of us. I assume that the Earth is flat, but I do not believe that any of the evidence is fake. Rather, I say that FET must be refined, like any other theory, to be consistent with the evidence. Just as Relativity is correct but incomplete because it appears to be incompatible with quantum mechanics, so present-day FETs are incomplete because they appear to contradict the evidence. The solution is not to reject the central premise or the evidence, but rather to discover the explanation for the apparent contradictions. Physicists have not yet discovered the Unified Field Theory and flat-Earthers have not yet discovered the theory that allows a flat Earth to conform to the evidence. The Law of Entropy means that Hell must freeze over eventually, and eventually we will understand the apparent contradictions between the observed facts and the flatness of the Earth. Always keeping in mind that we don't deny the existence of mountains and valleys. There are certainly bumps and wiggles on the flat Earth.

I don’t think even the fullness of time Will ever see your wish of a flat earth become true. Your main problem, leaving aside conspiracy, is that you currently have no verifiable evidence, and all the current evidence availible  points to the earth being somewhat spherical.  Even if you apply a Zetetic approach in trying to solve this conundrum I fear you will still draw a blank. Even the question posed by the op is reliant on there being a conspiracy for which there is no evidence.
What is interesting is you refer to  the 2nd law of thermodynamics which was arrived at using the scientific method and not by any Zetetic way of thinking. I may we’ll be wrong but I don’t think the Zetetic approach has ever been used to define a currently accepted and verified theory. As for relativity, aspects of that have been verified by both predictions and experimentation. While it doesn’t currently line up with quantum theory that just shows there are aspect of both areas are not fully understood. I’m not sure how that would apply to our current knowledge regarding the shape of the earth.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42013
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2018, 10:11:20 AM »
Compartmentalisation between so called astronauts. A need to know. Official secrets act and all the rest of it.
Basically loose lips sink ships or families, potentially.

Astronauts that trained together constantly and if they weren't on the mission or a backup for the mission they were part of the mission control running it at Houston. Please provide evidence of this supposed "compartmentalisation between astronauts" that you claim existed
Understand what speculation is and you won't feel the need to ask for evidence.
Without evidence, speculation is nothing but a wild guess.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

magellanclavichord

  • 897
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2018, 12:50:21 PM »
I make no bones about the fact that we are further away from a solid FET than we are from unraveling some of the other mysteries of the world, though the Grand Unified Field Theory does seem to be an especially knotty problem, yet scientists have not given up the search.

As for a Zetetic approach, I never made reference to that, and to be entirely honest, I'm not quite sure what the word means. I support the scientific approach. I believe that in the course of time we will know the true shape of the Earth as long as we do not give up the search.

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2018, 03:09:03 PM »
The scientific approach has already shown the true shape of the Earth.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2018, 05:32:11 PM »
Within a few meters, anyway.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

*

Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2018, 07:07:11 PM »
Within a few meters, anyway.

Well... I guess I'll call that close enough!

Flatties, how accurate is YOUR model?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2018, 10:47:26 PM »
Within a few meters, anyway.

Well... I guess I'll call that close enough!

Flatties, how accurate is YOUR model?
Try 5000 thousand kilometers out over a distance of 3700 km ;D.

Most flat-earthers seem to claim that the earth looks like the Ice Wall map or Gleason's map - essentially the same thing.

And those maps make the width of Australia at 30°S about 135% too large as in:
To see what I mean about the E-W distances being grossly stretched on the Gleason's Map just look at these two maps of Australia.  The one on the left is from Gleason's and the one on the right on Google Earth.  I used the Google Earth as a quick way to get the shape right, but the measurement shown are from my Garmin Navigator map. I have checked this numerous times, both with map (surveyed) distances between towns and the car's odometer, which I know is not more than 1% out (not all cars are that close - maybe Landcruisers are not that bad!).


Australia Size on Ice Wall Map,
E-W 8,700 km and N-S 3,300 km
       

Australia on Gleason's Map,
E-W 8,700 km and N-S 3,200 km
       
Australia on Google Earth,
E-W 3,700 km and N-S 3,200 km

Measurement   
   Ice Wall   Gleason's   Garmin Nav
West-East 30° Lat   
   8,700 km   8,700 km   3,700 km
Cape Yk-Wils Prom   
   3,300 km   3,200 km   3,200 km
As you can see the on both the "Ice Wall Map" and the "Gleason's Map" the shape of Australia is grossly distorted, with the East-West distance on the "Ice Wall Map" and "Gleason Map" being 8,700 km compared to a more accurate distance of 3,700 km. The distances on the "Ice Wall Map" and  "Gleason's Map" are estimated by comparing the lengths with the Equator to North Pole taken as 10,000 km.
The North-South distances agree very well, but E-W distances are grossly in error - All the distances have been rounded to the nearest 100 km.

If anyone complains that these distances are from that "terrible" Google Earth, here is an map surveyed the hard way before 1855.

Map of Australia 1855
All I can do on that map is to measure distances the old way - measure distances from the map, but the same distances are close with 3659 km along the 30° parallel of latitude.

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2018, 01:26:47 AM »
There are just too many people who would have to be in on a conspiracy, most of them not even Americans or Westerners for such a conspiracy to be possible. I mean, this super secret organisation that controls the world is so good at hiding the shape of the earth, so good that in 200 years no one has come out to claim to be a part of this conspiracy, or at least in the last 500 years, but this same conspiracy cannot hide the fact that the US president left cum stains on an intern's dress? Come on!

Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax?
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2018, 06:06:44 AM »
There are just too many people who would have to be in on a conspiracy, most of them not even Americans or Westerners for such a conspiracy to be possible. I mean, this super secret organisation that controls the world is so good at hiding the shape of the earth, so good that in 200 years no one has come out to claim to be a part of this conspiracy, or at least in the last 500 years, but this same conspiracy cannot hide the fact that the US president left cum stains on an intern's dress? Come on!
From the Rosenbergs to Watergate, from Iran Contra to White Water, from Valerie Plame to Abu Ghraib to Wikileaks.  Throughout history people have never been able to keep secrets and bigger the secret the more likely it is to be leaked  With Wikileaks someone could leak anything they wanted to and the dumps would be happening for years before anyone found out who the leaker was; it we found out at all.  Yet to this day there has never been a single leak.

There currently 73 government space agencies.  There are six capable of launching and routinely do launch satellites.  There are three with the ability to launch humans into space.  There are hundreds of private contractors providing equipment and services to all these agencies.  Additionally, there are eight private spaceflight companies.

Collectively, all these agencies and companies have employed millions over the decades.  Not a single leak...no deathbed confessions, no one over hearing a conversation they shouldn't have, nobody finding a stray document, recording, or video they shouldn't have.  Even with tight compartmentalization you’d still be looking at tens of thousands over those decades and yet nothin’ but crickets.

Not to mention universities and colleges.  If we consider only astrophysics/cosmology; every university department would have to be in on it, every university doing research would have to “read in” every professor and grad student involved in that research, and every graduating PhD in history would have to be involved at some level.  How many other degrees would involve some aspect of outer space that would require at least some small portion of the graduates needing to be “read in” on the conspiracy?

The number of people who would have to be in the know over all this time is staggering.  Yet, somehow, we’re to believe this has been successfully kept secret for centuries without even a inkling that anything was ever leaked.

This is just a small segment of those areas that would need to be involved.  It stretches credibility to the breaking point.

My 2¢ FWIW.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.