I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏

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Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2018, 02:34:35 PM »
I'm getting the impression that other flatheads feel they understand how everything works, and some believe there's some kind of huge coverup
I think it is more a case of they don't want to admit there are any problems because doing so weakens their justification for FE. They need the massive coverup to explain why basically everyone supports a RE. If there wasn't a massive conspiracy, and the evidence supported a FE, most people would be supporting a FE.

It looks to me more like two competing groups of theories, RE theories and FE theories
It is more akin to there being 2 competing groups. There are the REers, with a single RE theory, and then FEers, with numerous contradictory FE models to try and explain various parts of reality.

It's a pitfall that's easy to fall into when you adhere to a minority theory, to say that everyone else knows you're right but are maliciously refusing to admit it.
It is better characterised as cognitive dissonance, which effects people regardless of how widely held the belief is. If you get conflicting evidence or people claiming they don't believe you find some way to dismiss it.
This even applies to beliefs held by very large groups of people, such as the plenty of religious people that assert everyone knows their particular god exists (or at least some god) and those that claim otherwise are simply denying it.
It allows them to escape having to justify their claims or thinking there is not sufficient reason to believe it.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2018, 02:38:10 PM »
JackBlack is literally the Grinch who stole Christmass. 

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magellanclavichord

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Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2018, 03:47:29 PM »
JackBlack is literally the Grinch who stole Christmass.

I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)

I'm getting the impression that other flatheads feel they understand how everything works, and some believe there's some kind of huge coverup
I think it is more a case of they don't want to admit there are any problems because doing so weakens their justification for FE. They need the massive coverup to explain why basically everyone supports a RE. If there wasn't a massive conspiracy, and the evidence supported a FE, most people would be supporting a FE.

We flatheads do face serious problems with our theory, but rather than crying about conspiracies and posting videos on YouTube that make us seem like weirdos, we're better off admitting that we don't have all the answers.

It looks to me more like two competing groups of theories, RE theories and FE theories
It is more akin to there being 2 competing groups. There are the REers, with a single RE theory, and then FEers, with numerous contradictory FE models to try and explain various parts of reality.

It's true that we are a diverse group with very different theories, but round-Earthers have lots of different theories also. Theirs are certainly less diverse than ours, but they don't agree, for example, on what the center of the supposed ball is like, or what causes the magnetic field. And in my lifetime they changed their minds about tectonic plates, and in cosmology they changed their minds about things like expansion and even the idea that there are other galaxies. They still have no idea what dark energy is, though it apparently comprises 70% (?), 80% (?) of the universe, and they don't even have any idea what dark matter is, though it is 95% of what's left. With uncertainties like that, it makes sense to believe that the Earth is flat, and that when they finally figure out dark energy and the Grand Unified Field theory they'll understand why.

It's a pitfall that's easy to fall into when you adhere to a minority theory, to say that everyone else knows you're right but are maliciously refusing to admit it.
It is better characterised as cognitive dissonance, which effects people regardless of how widely held the belief is. If you get conflicting evidence or people claiming they don't believe you find some way to dismiss it.
This even applies to beliefs held by very large groups of people, such as the plenty of religious people that assert everyone knows their particular god exists (or at least some god) and those that claim otherwise are simply denying it.
It allows them to escape having to justify their claims or thinking there is not sufficient reason to believe it.

So cognitive dissonance can affect us all, flatheads and globeheads alike.

Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2018, 05:45:43 PM »
I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)
But for added fun with English, literally can mean figuratively.
Isn't it great?

We flatheads do face serious problems with our theory, but rather than crying about conspiracies and posting videos on YouTube that make us seem like weirdos, we're better off admitting that we don't have all the answers.
The issue is that when you do that, people will ask then why should people think Earth is flat? (especially with your latter justification for FE).

It's true that we are a diverse group with very different theories, but round-Earthers have lots of different theories also. Theirs are certainly less diverse than ours, but they don't agree, for example, on what the center of the supposed ball is like, or what causes the magnetic field. And in my lifetime they changed their minds about tectonic plates, and in cosmology they changed their minds about things like expansion and even the idea that there are other galaxies. They still have no idea what dark energy is, though it apparently comprises 70% (?), 80% (?) of the universe, and they don't even have any idea what dark matter is, though it is 95% of what's left.
The issue is how these are connected to shape.
REers just have the one globe, with the continents and cities and the like in the one set of positions. Sure, there are various versions of accuracy, such as a perfect sphere or an oblate spheroid, but no one claims the sphere is perfect rather than simply an approximation.
FEers have multiple different models. Some have the NP at the centre. Others have the south pole. Others have roughly 0,0.
The expansion of the universe is basically irrelevant to if Earth is round or not. Yes, there are issues with how people like tying RE to basically all of science with FE having lots of different aspects going against mainstream science, but a lot is still relevant to the shape of Earth.

Yes over time they improve the theory, but it is one consistent theory which is improved and then accepted (note this even basically works for the first RE model being developed from the ancient FE model). For FE, they basically throw out one model and start again with a completely different one.

With uncertainties like that, it makes sense to believe that the Earth is flat, and that when they finally figure out dark energy and the Grand Unified Field theory they'll understand why.
No it doesn't. Firstly, this ties back into FEers not having all the answers.
Your argument is effectively:
There are 2 competing models, X and Y.
X can't explain Z.
Therefore Y is true.

The issue is that Y can't explain it either.

In order for that to be a valid argument you need Y to actually be able to explain it.
In all cases that I know of, RE explains things which FE can't, rather than the other way around.
That is why it makes sense to accept Earth is round and no sense to accept Earth is flat, and why FEers are so opposed to admitting there are issues with the FE model or things FE can't explain.

If you think you have the answer, feel free to provide it.

So cognitive dissonance can affect us all, flatheads and globeheads alike.
Yes. Even REers can make an argument they think is good while being horribly flawed, and then completely ignore the issues with it pretending the FEers just reject it because they don't want to admit Earth is round.

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rabinoz

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Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2018, 06:56:15 PM »
JackBlack is literally the Grinch who stole Christmass Christmas ;).
And I thought I was? I'm so disappointed. I'll try harder.

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2018, 08:57:08 PM »
JackBlack
- I was disappointed in your last responses. Very much I was disappointed. You as that Don Quixote fighting against windmills.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2018, 06:32:02 AM »


We flatheads do face serious problems with our theory, but rather than crying about conspiracies and posting videos on YouTube that make us seem like weirdos, we're better off admitting that we don't have all the answers.
The issue is that when you do that, people will ask then why should people think Earth is flat? (especially with your latter justification for FE).

Why should people think the Earth is flat? Because they like the idea. If they don't like the idea, they shouldn't think it. I'm not here to convince anybody. I actually came here to chat with other flat-Earthers, but it turned out that most of them are either incomprehensible, or limit themselves to short quips. Some of their posts don't seem to have any grammatical meaning. One or two show signs of mental illness in the disjointed character of their posts. And some go off on irrelevant tangents like moon-landing denial and conspiracy theories. Turns out, the globeheads are more interesting to talk to.

If you think you have the answer, feel free to provide it.

Good heavens, no! I have no answers. I think I admitted that before. (Maybe in a different thread?)

Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2018, 11:05:03 AM »
I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)
But for added fun with English, literally can mean figuratively.


No, just no.

Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2018, 05:43:49 AM »
I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)
But for added fun with English, literally can mean figuratively.


No, just no.

Iím with you on this one. 

I get that language changes over time, as common usage deviates from the dictionary definition.

But taking the one God damned word we use to distinguish between the two and flipping it is a crime against communication. Rhetorically speaking.