Cui Bono? Who benefits?!

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Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« on: March 11, 2018, 12:07:03 AM »
I have never had one person on the side of the flat earth explain to me who benefits from keeping the largest secret in human history from the entire world.
From what I’ve learned while doing research on this subject is that the majority of flat earthers believe in god, and I am assuming a Christian god. Here is what I don’t understand... If the US govt is keeping this a secret, would it not benefit them to prove its flat thus showing the muslims that their religion is the “one true religion” and dealing a huge blow to the Muslim religion. With all of the conflicts between The United States and almost every Muslim based landmass, one would think that any way to get an upper hand be it psychologically or through brute force would help. So again, my question is, who benefits from keeping this a secret and why not use this to their advantage to show religious superiority because if the earth is flat, then the bible must be true, which shows Muslim’s the false ness of their religion and their ways, and a surrender... sorry for the long post.
Thanks a bunch..
~Science is God~

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JackBlack

  • 21558
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2018, 01:04:48 AM »
I have never had one person on the side of the flat earth explain to me who benefits from keeping the largest secret in human history from the entire world.
From what I’ve learned while doing research on this subject is that the majority of flat earthers believe in god, and I am assuming a Christian god. Here is what I don’t understand... If the US govt is keeping this a secret, would it not benefit them to prove its flat thus showing the muslims that their religion is the “one true religion” and dealing a huge blow to the Muslim religion. With all of the conflicts between The United States and almost every Muslim based landmass, one would think that any way to get an upper hand be it psychologically or through brute force would help. So again, my question is, who benefits from keeping this a secret and why not use this to their advantage to show religious superiority because if the earth is flat, then the bible must be true, which shows Muslim’s the false ness of their religion and their ways, and a surrender... sorry for the long post.
Thanks a bunch..
~Science is God~
The big problem with that is the Abrahamic faiths are quite interlinked.
Just like Christianity indicates Earth is flat, so does Islam, so does Judaism.

Having Earth be flat and having the religion match that doesn't magically make the religion true.

After all, you have memes like this circulating:


So the US proving Earth is flat doesn't magically make Christianity true and Islam false.

But that does provide the only even remotely sane idea, that it is the devil trying to lead people away from God to make them burn, doing it purely to make people suffer.
But that ignores the fact that in Christianity Satan/the devil is vastly superior (in terms of moral) to God and it would be more likely to be God just screwing with people; and there is no reason at all to think any of them are real.

Science is not God.
Science is vastly superior to God.
It can be shown to be real and produces useful results.
Calling science God is an insult to science.

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Cahaya

  • 420
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 01:52:50 AM »
The US government has a constitutional duty under the 1st amendment to protect freedom of religion. That includes Islam. The US is not at war with Islam in the same way as back in WWII it wasn't at war with German religion. It might be at war with some people who are Muslim but that isn't the same thing.

Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2018, 01:53:30 AM »
Because you are an unbeliever. Praise the lord. We have a book written by people that can't be traced, has travelled the world via plague bearers'.

The 'word of god' needs no book. He has the power. We should be hearing the same stories from lost tribes. But alas he doesn't care, or doesn't exist. Quite pointless worshipping one who doesn't care because of tradition.

Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2018, 03:11:01 AM »
I have never had one person on the side of the flat earth explain to me who benefits from keeping the largest secret in human history from the entire world.
From what I’ve learned while doing research on this subject is that the majority of flat earthers believe in god, and I am assuming a Christian god. Here is what I don’t understand... If the US govt is keeping this a secret, would it not benefit them to prove its flat thus showing the muslims that their religion is the “one true religion” and dealing a huge blow to the Muslim religion. With all of the conflicts between The United States and almost every Muslim based landmass, one would think that any way to get an upper hand be it psychologically or through brute force would help. So again, my question is, who benefits from keeping this a secret and why not use this to their advantage to show religious superiority because if the earth is flat, then the bible must be true, which shows Muslim’s the false ness of their religion and their ways, and a surrender... sorry for the long post.
Thanks a bunch..
~Science is God~

That is a complex question, who benefits?  In my opinion it gives individuals who have a propensity to believe in non mainstream ideas some outlet, therefore the flat earth believing individual is the beneficiary.  FE belief, going by the individuals on this site, is often augmented by a raft of other either new age or conspiracy beliefs. Research into such phenomena often throws up the idea that the individual is given some sense of reflected power or persona boost by knowing things that others don’t.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/talking-apes/201801/why-do-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5724570/

Even the way they refer to non believers as bots, sheeple, shills or other dehumanising tags is a clear indication of their classic inverted superiority.
Even the way they present their arguments is designed to elevate their own position. In another thread John Davis interestingly cited Thomas Kuhn. Kuhn who was both a physicist, philosopher and scholar of the history of science, certinally not a flat earth believer, wrote extensively on how differing theories could be evaluated. He used terms such as commensurability and incommensurable when concidering differing theories. FE belief when compared to reality is obviously incommensurable in that the two frameworks are totally incompatible. For the Flat Earther to engage with reality what they have to do is undermine and call into question the very components that make up reality, hence their extensive and unbelievable raft of bolt on conspiracies required. This deconstruction of reality allows them in their own minds to feel they are on an even footing and as such can enter into a commensurabele debate. This is of course an illusion, just like the beliefs they cling on to.
Look through the threads on this forum and you will see every scientific principle and the very scientists themselves called into question. John Davis himself even stated that 100% of all scientific theories are wrong. A vain attempt,to somehow in his own mind, level the playing field, to ultimately elevate himself. That’s why I maintain that FE belief is an attempt by individuals to make up their own feelings of inadequacy by adopting the position of I know something you don’t.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74589.0
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 03:17:39 AM by Lonegranger »

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Macarios

  • 2093
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2018, 08:32:00 AM »
I have never had one person on the side of the flat earth explain to me who benefits from keeping the largest secret in human history from the entire world.
...

You are putting it upside down.
"The largest secret in human history" is not kept from the entire world.
It is the other way around:
Entire world is keeping "the largest secret in human history" from Flat Earthers.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2018, 11:13:58 AM »
It's a conspiracy with over 99% agreeing to maintain it. That should tell you all you need to know.

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2018, 11:40:54 AM »
It's a conspiracy with over 99% agreeing to maintain it.
That would mean that over 99% know that it's a conspiracy. 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2018, 02:18:11 PM »
Because you are an unbeliever. Praise the lord. We have a book written by people that can't be traced, has travelled the world via plague bearers'.

The 'word of god' needs no book. He has the power. We should be hearing the same stories from lost tribes. But alas he doesn't care, or doesn't exist. Quite pointless worshipping one who doesn't care because of tradition.
I have never had one person on the side of the flat earth explain to me who benefits from keeping the largest secret in human history from the entire world.
From what I’ve learned while doing research on this subject is that the majority of flat earthers believe in god, and I am assuming a Christian god. Here is what I don’t understand... If the US govt is keeping this a secret, would it not benefit them to prove its flat thus showing the muslims that their religion is the “one true religion” and dealing a huge blow to the Muslim religion. With all of the conflicts between The United States and almost every Muslim based landmass, one would think that any way to get an upper hand be it psychologically or through brute force would help. So again, my question is, who benefits from keeping this a secret and why not use this to their advantage to show religious superiority because if the earth is flat, then the bible must be true, which shows Muslim’s the false ness of their religion and their ways, and a surrender... sorry for the long post.
Thanks a bunch..
~Science is God~
The big problem with that is the Abrahamic faiths are quite interlinked.
Just like Christianity indicates Earth is flat, so does Islam, so does Judaism.

Having Earth be flat and having the religion match that doesn't magically make the religion true.

After all, you have memes like this circulating:


So the US proving Earth is flat doesn't magically make Christianity true and Islam false.

But that does provide the only even remotely sane idea, that it is the devil trying to lead people away from God to make them burn, doing it purely to make people suffer.
But that ignores the fact that in Christianity Satan/the devil is vastly superior (in terms of moral) to God and it would be more likely to be God just screwing with people; and there is no reason at all to think any of them are real.

Science is not God.
Science is vastly superior to God.
It can be shown to be real and produces useful results.
Calling science God is an insult to science.
I meant that there is no god, that science literally is the only truth, that no god exists hence science is god.

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Macarios

  • 2093
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2018, 03:13:56 PM »
I meant that there is no god, that science literally is the only truth, that no god exists hence science is god.

We understand.
You are trying to say "the pedestal is empty, there is no old God to stand there, so the only thing that can be on it is science".
But what we are trying to tell you is beyond that.

The "pedestal" is not just empty.
There is no pedestal.
There is you, people you love now, people you will love in the future, and your goals in life.

Science is not something you worship, or believe in.
You don't put it in some position "above you".
There is no such thing.

Science is a tool.
You use it.
It is there so we can give ourselves directions how to achieve desired result with the least damage to the rest.
And the tool is still crude.
Our knowledge is shallow and things to discover or understand endless.
Some of our theories are incorrect, but they do the job until we build better ones.
Every tool requires to know how to use it.
And every tool needs sharpening, hardening, or some redesign.

Old Dogma was forbidden to question. Nobody was allowed to replace bad parts.
The advantage of science is in the ability to change and improve, replace and remove anything that is not good enough.
If you know what are you doing, you don't have to have title or status, or to be member of some "elite".
Use science, shake it, look at it from every possible angle, squeeze it, question it.
Don't light candles in front of it.
Explore and understand.
Find flaws.
Don't pretend it is perfect when it is not even close.
There is still long way ahead.

Science is not God and will never be.
It is our set of blueprints for progress, something like our "child" that will grow with us.

------------------------------------

This post was not only for you.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 03:35:45 PM by Macarios »
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2018, 03:19:38 PM »
Science is not God and will should never be.
Fixed that for you.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Macarios

  • 2093
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2018, 03:36:32 PM »
Science is not God and will should never be.
Fixed that for you.

Meanings are different, but both are correct.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

*

JackBlack

  • 21558
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2018, 01:10:52 AM »
I meant that there is no god, that science literally is the only truth, that no god exists hence science is god.
But science isn't actually truth. It is the best method we have for distinguishing between fact and fiction.
While it can determine that something is wrong, it can never determine that something is actually true rather than an approximation which holds for what we have experienced.
It is not to be worshipped and its statements are not to be just taken as fact as people often do with God.
Instead it is to be used, with results obtained with it taken as a good approximation, but not necessarily reality; results which can be improved upon.

No god existing doesn't make science god, it simply means there is no god.
Don't try to fill the void with something that doesn't belong.
Leave the void empty and let it disappear.

Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2018, 07:40:52 AM »
I have never had one person on the side of the flat earth explain to me who benefits from keeping the largest secret in human history from the entire world.
From what I’ve learned while doing research on this subject is that the majority of flat earthers believe in god, and I am assuming a Christian god. Here is what I don’t understand... If the US govt is keeping this a secret, would it not benefit them to prove its flat thus showing the muslims that their religion is the “one true religion” and dealing a huge blow to the Muslim religion. With all of the conflicts between The United States and almost every Muslim based landmass, one would think that any way to get an upper hand be it psychologically or through brute force would help. So again, my question is, who benefits from keeping this a secret and why not use this to their advantage to show religious superiority because if the earth is flat, then the bible must be true, which shows Muslim’s the false ness of their religion and their ways, and a surrender... sorry for the long post.
Thanks a bunch..
~Science is God~
To ask the same Question again. I am new to the Flat Eath Society and don't really see yet, who is profiting from holding up the conspiracy ? Could someone please explain me that ?! Thanks in advance :D ;D

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2018, 02:14:37 PM »
Because you are an unbeliever. Praise the lord. We have a book written by people that can't be traced, has travelled the world via plague bearers'.

The 'word of god' needs no book. He has the power. We should be hearing the same stories from lost tribes. But alas he doesn't care, or doesn't exist. Quite pointless worshipping one who doesn't care because of tradition.
All of which is unrelated to the OP or the shape of the earth.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2018, 03:22:26 PM »

To ask the same Question again. I am new to the Flat Earth Society and don't really see yet, who is profiting from holding up the conspiracy ? Could someone please explain me that ?! Thanks in advance :D ;D

Nobody is profiting!
Though Flat Earthers pretend that NASA somehow profits. For the life of me, I cannot see the logic in this when:
  • NASA were not the first to launch sub-orbital flights (that was in 1944) and satellites (that was the Russions) and
  • a dozen nations and dozens of organisations now launching sub-orbital, orbital and deep-space missions.

For many decades space missions have been able to show direct evidence of the shape of the earth by photographs and personal reports.
Hence the earth's being a rotating globe is now obvious to even the most unobservant and scientific illiterate that some story had to be invented.

One of the earliest claims of the Globe being a conspiracy and space missions being faked seems to be: Flat Earth Society Wiki, Charles K Johnson with more in:
Quote
The Flat-out Truth: Earth Orbits? Moon Landings? A Fraud! Says This Prophet
The idea of a spinning globe is only a conspiracy of error that Moses, Columbus, and FDR all fought...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
"You can't orbit a flat earth," says Mr. Johnson. "The Space Shuttle is a joke—and a very ludicrous joke."

His soft voice carries conviction, for Charles Johnson is on the level. He believes that the main purpose of the space program is to prop up a dying myth—the myth that the earth is a globe.

"Nobody knows anything about the true shape of the world," he contends. "The known, inhabited world is flat. Just as a guess, I'd say that the dome of heaven is about 4,000 miles away, and the stars are about as far as San Francisco is from Boston."
Copyright 1980 Robert J. Schadewald

This is worth reading about how ridiculous the idea of this conspiracy really is Place of the Conspiracy in FET

In other words the idea of a conspiracy was invented simply prop up the idea that "The FET (Flat Earth Theory) is an obvious truth".

Re: Cui Bono? Who benefits?!
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2018, 03:55:06 PM »
I have never had one person on the side of the flat earth explain to me who benefits from keeping the largest secret in human history from the entire world.
From what I’ve learned while doing research on this subject is that the majority of flat earthers believe in god, and I am assuming a Christian god. Here is what I don’t understand... If the US govt is keeping this a secret, would it not benefit them to prove its flat thus showing the muslims that their religion is the “one true religion” and dealing a huge blow to the Muslim religion. With all of the conflicts between The United States and almost every Muslim based landmass, one would think that any way to get an upper hand be it psychologically or through brute force would help. So again, my question is, who benefits from keeping this a secret and why not use this to their advantage to show religious superiority because if the earth is flat, then the bible must be true, which shows Muslim’s the false ness of their religion and their ways, and a surrender... sorry for the long post.
Thanks a bunch..
~Science is God~
To ask the same Question again. I am new to the Flat Eath Society and don't really see yet, who is profiting from holding up the conspiracy ? Could someone please explain me that ?! Thanks in advance :D ;D

The idea that people unknown are profiting from some widespread conspiracy is one of the bullworks of FE belief and fits in well with their whole Zetetic driven belief system. From their perspective the earth is flat, therefore the fact that mainstream belief teaches otherwise follows that there must be a widespread conspiracy hiding the real truth going on. To understand how FE belief is constructed you need to get to grips with the whole Zetetic methodology and mind set. I would look up their explanation of Zetetic principles in their Wiki. Once you get to grips with it, it makes the whole FE position more understandable.
The problem is it makes debate with someone from a FE belief standpoint very difficult as it is pretty much out of kilter with the scientific method.