Happy Equinox, Be Happy and Don't Cry Over The Miserable Table of Sun Realities

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Danang

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It's time for getting a joy athmoplane. Now forget about globe's non existent claim of 'prediction capability', various daytime durations, failed timing of sunrise and sunset.
Forget about the equinox table that is so miserable, especially if viewed from globe theories.
Every place in the world should have had 12 hours of daytime, sunrise at 6.00 AM etc etc.
Why those ain't occur?
Owh forget about it in this happy day for a while. It's time to rejoice.  :o 8)
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Space Cowgirl

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Happy equinox to you too, Danang!

I hope the feeling of fall arrives soon. I don't feel much like celebrating when it's still in the 90s everyday.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Danang

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Yeah SCG... the view is certainly so gorgeous.  8)
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rabinoz

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It's time for getting a joy athmoplane. Now forget about globe's non existent claim of 'prediction capability', various daytime durations, failed timing of sunrise and sunset.
Forget about the equinox table that is so miserable, especially if viewed from globe theories.
Why?
The "equinox table" works out exactly as expected for the Globe earth.

Quote from: Danang
Every place in the world should have had 12 hours of daytime, sunrise at 6.00 AM etc etc.
No, not exactly! The 12 hours would be:
     if there were no refraction and
     if the daylight were be timed from when the centre of the sun rose to the horizon and set to the horizon.

Have a look at the Effect of atmospheric refraction on the times of sunrise and sunset. The Hong Kong Weather Observatory ought to know about this sort of thing.
This says:
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The actual altitude of the centre of the Sun is about -0°50’ (negative value means below the horizon). About -0°16’ of this actual altitude is the apparent radius of the Sun. The remaining -0°34’[2] is the effect of atmospheric refraction under average atmospheric condition, leading to the apparent effect of advanced sunrise and delayed sunset. For example in Hong Kong, the atmospheric refraction causes the sunrise and sunset to appear about 2 minutes early and late respectively when compared to the situation without the atmospheric refraction. In fact, the times of sunrise and sunset announced by the Hong Kong Observatory have already included the effect of the atmospheric refraction so that users do not need to calculate the times by themselves.

So the Globe earth model predicts that
       there is about 4 minutes more than 12 hours of daytime not far from the equator at the equinoxes and
       progressively more towards the poles till close to each pole the days are 24 hours long.
Have a look at the predicted length on the day this morning in this part of the world.
Location
   
Latitude
     
Sun Rise - Sunset
     
Day Length
Casey Station Antarctica
   
66° S
     
6:22 am (92°) - 6:39 pm (268°)
     
12hr 17min
Macquarie Island
   
55° S
     
6:12 am (91°) - 6:23 pm (269°)
     
12hr 11min
Brisbane, QLD (here)
   
27° S
     
5:36 am (90°) - 5:44 pm (269°)
     
12hr 7min
Denpasar, Bali
   
9° S
     
6:08 am (90°) - 6:14 pm (270°)
     
12hr 6min

The Globe is very happy at the equinox as it is a time to show that none of the flat earth models can possibly be correct.
The clock-time of sunrise and sunset depends on the local time-zone and the exact longitude.

Quote from: Danang
I don't know what the sun does on your topsy-turvy flat earth but on the usual ice-wall lay-out with the sun circling over the equator
How does the sun manage to rise almost exactly due east at either equinox on any flat earth model with the sun circling above the equator - you work that one out.

Quote from: Danang
Owh forget about it in this happy day for a while. It's time to rejoice.  :o 8)

Yes and a happy equinox day to you up there too.

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Danang

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Yeah, Rab, it's time to dance while twisting the body, not twisting the evidence. :o  8)
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frenat

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Yeah, Rab, it's time to dance while twisting the body, not twisting the evidence. :o  8)
But twisting the evidence is all you ever do.

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rabinoz

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Yeah, Rab, it's time to dance while twisting the body, not twisting the evidence. :o  8)
I don't dance and don't twist the evidence.

All I did was show actual predictions based on the Globe earth and those predictions match what I see here.
This morning here near Brisbane the sun rose as close to 90° (due East) as my real compass could measure.
And you did,it hope, note that TimeandDate.com did predict a sunrise at 90° from here.

And what did you post in the way of predictions? Nothing! But I'm sure that the :) scenery up there is beautiful ;).

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faded mike

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Darn it! I slept through it... AAGGGHHH
i'll wake up on time tomorrow
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

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faded mike

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Happy Equinox!
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

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rabinoz

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Darn it! I slept through it... AAGGGHHH
i'll wake up on time tomorrow
:) Don't worry the sun will rise in almost the same direction and at almost the same time tomorrow and the next day :), for example here, near Brisbane, Queensland:
Date
     
Sun Rise - Sunset: Time (dir)
     
Day Length
Sept 23, 2018
     
5:36 am (90°) - 5:44 pm (269°)
     
12 hrs 07 min
Sept 24, 2018
     
5:35 am (91°) - 5:44 pm (269°)
     
12 hrs 09 min
Sept 25, 2018
     
5:34 am (91°) - 5:45 pm (269°)
     
12 hrs 11 min
These are from timeanddate.com, sun for, :( horror of horrors, the Globe earth :( but I think you'll find that they match OK.

Of course, they are for the sun rising over the sea or similar, so there might be some error if your horizon is above (as here at home) or below your location.

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dutchy

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Happy Equinox.....

Equinox...capable of all sorts of outer wordily sounds and natural phenomena when words are no longer sufficient to describe the event.
 ::) ;D

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faded mike

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I just got back an hr ago from my bike ride to watch the day after the equinox sunrise, cloudy of course. And I unfortunately just remembered to check the sky every few minutes....was the earth flat?
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

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rabinoz

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I just got back an hr ago from my bike ride to watch the day after the equinox sunrise, cloudy of course. And I unfortunately just remembered to check the sky every few minutes....was the earth flat?
I imagine it looked pretty flat.

Video of Sunrise across Black Sea - looks pretty flat.
     
Sunrise from here - hard to tell if it's flat or not.
::) But I always do wonder how that sun some 5000 km above the flat earth appears to come up from behind the horizon ::).

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Danang

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Equinox table is unrefutable.
Be happy, play music, the earth is flat.

And you know what?

Firmament gives such  'unique' view of celestial bodies. Those who don't believe in firmament should repent ASAP  :o  8)
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Danang

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Ushuaia sunrise failed time?? Beyond 7.00 AM??
Not really.  8)
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/argentina/ushuaia
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Danang

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Rabinoz showed up here. I should have taken an Australia's town for an example.

But please forgive me, I was just afraid in case anyone would question me about the existence of Australia. :(

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rabinoz

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Ushuaia sunrise failed time?? Beyond 7.00 AM??
Not really.  8)
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/argentina/ushuaia
So sorry, no fail at Ushuaia either! Clock time means nothing. It's solar time that matters.

Look: Sunrise: 7:21 am at 91°, sunset: 7:31 pm at 269° and day length 12 hrs 10 min.
Solar noon in Ushuaia is at 1:25 pm by the clock so sunrise is 6 hrs 6 mins before solar noon and sunset is 6 hrs 4 mins after solar noon.

Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this.


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frenat

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Ushuaia sunrise failed time?? Beyond 7.00 AM??
Not really.  8)
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/argentina/ushuaia
Exact sunrise time varies based on where you are in the time zone. Not every place can be exactly 7 am. You prove, yet again, only that you have no clue of what you are talking about.

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Danang

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'Good Combination' :

1. Nearly all theory & Explanation from school have no basis in reality.
2. Students regard everything coming from school as 'scientific'. They follow all theories by inadequate, even hoaxed explanations from teachers.

By this miserable way, I'd ask: when will you get the true independence??

Wake up!  ;D
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Danang

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"Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."

>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going.  ;)
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BM2

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"Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."

>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going.  ;)

How are you typing and using words if you have refuted all information you have ever been taught?  Literally everything you do is something you learned from somebody else.  Being incapable of understanding the difference between credible information and complete bullshit is not a sign of intelligence...in fact just the opposite.  Since there is no way you will ever be able to discover and learn anything significant on your own, who will you trust to teach you?

In order for information to be considered valid in your silly world, do you have to agree with all of it?

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Danang

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"Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."

>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going.  ;)

How are you typing and using words if you have refuted all information you have ever been taught?  Literally everything you do is something you learned from somebody else.  Being incapable of understanding the difference between credible information and complete bullshit is not a sign of intelligence...in fact just the opposite.  Since there is no way you will ever be able to discover and learn anything significant on your own, who will you trust to teach you?

In order for information to be considered valid in your silly world, do you have to agree with all of it?

After unlearning into zero school knowledge, starting to select and accept things under own verification, as well as to form new concepts  8)
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rabinoz

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"Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."

>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going.  ;)

How are you typing and using words if you have refuted all information you have ever been taught?  Literally everything you do is something you learned from somebody else.  Being incapable of understanding the difference between credible information and complete bullshit is not a sign of intelligence...in fact just the opposite.  Since there is no way you will ever be able to discover and learn anything significant on your own, who will you trust to teach you?

In order for information to be considered valid in your silly world, do you have to agree with all of it?

After unlearning into zero school knowledge, starting to select and accept things under own verification, as well as to form new concepts.
Which unfortunately do not work! Tough about that, Danang, but your ideas don't work and the heliocentric Globe does.

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Tom Bishop

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Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.

We have never seen any sort of documented observation of this eastwards rising sun phenomenon from the equator.

Furthermore, the length of day varies to be more or less than 12 hours throughout the year. There are two days when the length of day reaches about 12 hours. It is of no surprise that there are a couple of days which reflect these values and which historically represent the changing of the seasons that are defined by the length of the days.

While this 12 hour day is logically reasonable, we have not seen evidence that it holds for all points on earth worldwide.

This "equinox proof" is completely hypothetical. Every year it comes up, and every year you guys fail to provide evidence for your premise, and continue to make baseless claims without evidence.

Lets make it clear: If you have no evidence, there is no reason to amuse your claims at all.

Based on the last ten years, here is what will follow in this thread: We will see further claims and appeals to authority and incredulity, but we will see no actual evidence in any form.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 07:27:35 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Alpha2Omega

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Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.

This is not correct, Tom. The celestial equator (CE) intersects the geometric horizon at points due east and due west of an observer anywhere on the surface of the spherical earth except at the poles (but at the poles, the CE is the geometric horizon, and east and west have no meaning). At the moment of the equinox, the center of the sun is on the CE (that's what defines an equinox), therefore, geometrically, the center of the sun rises due east and sets due west for an observer on the surface of the spherical earth at the moment of an equinox (except at the poles).

If sunrise or sunset at your location is not at the exact moment of the equinox, the center of the sun will be a little north or south of the CE at sunrise or sunset. Is that what you're questioning? That's going to be the case whether you're on the equator or not. It's irrelevant, anyway. If you're working at that level of detail, then your point is moot because the sun isn't rising or setting at the equinox everywhere on earth, only at two particular longitudes.

You will get some additional slop because the CE intersects the horizon at an angle if you're not on the equator, and atmospheric refraction causes the sun to appear above the horizon when it's actually just below it geometrically, but that is not very significant in low and mid latitudes unless you're taking very precise measurements; if you are taking precise measurements close to the horizon, you need to account for refraction anyway. At high latitudes this will become very significant.

The slightly non-spherical shape of the real earth and presence of the atmosphere add complications, but the spherical-earth model itself predicts exactly that.

Quote
We have never seen any sort of documented observation of this eastwards rising sun phenomenon from the equator.

Apparently you haven't looked.

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Furthermore, the length of day varies to be more or less than 12 hours throughout the year. There are two days when the length of day reaches about 12 hours. It is of no surprise that there are a couple of days which reflect these values and which historically represent the changing of the seasons that are defined by the length of the days.

While this 12 hour day is logically reasonable, we have not seen evidence that it holds for all points on earth worldwide.

It doesn't. At (or even very close to) the poles, the sun will slowly emerge above or settle below the horizon over a period of a few dozen hours, and stay above or below the horizon for months at a time. It takes about 36 hours for the center of the sun to move from 1/4 degree on one side of the CE to 1/4 degree on the other. Since the apparent diameter of the sun is about 1/2 degree, it takes that long for the entire sun to cross the CE, and, similarly, to completely emerge above or disappear below the geometric horizon at a pole.

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This "equinox proof" is completely hypothetical. Every year it comes up, and every year you guys fail to provide evidence for your premise, and continue to make baseless claims without evidence.

You could easily check for yourself, you know. Since you deny that it happens, you must either be refusing to, or are confused about what direction is due east or due west.

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Lets make it clear: If you have no evidence, there is no reason to amuse your claims at all.

Based on the last ten years, here is what will follow in this thread: We will see further claims and appeals to authority and incredulity, but we will see no actual evidence in any form.

You've been making this appeal to incredulity for ten years and never even once tried to see if it's true? Wow! You've had 40 opportunities to do so in that length of time!
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Tom Bishop

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Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.

This is not correct, Tom. The celestial equator (CE) intersects the geometric horizon at points due east and due west of an observer anywhere on the surface of the spherical earth except at the poles (but at the poles, the CE is the geometric horizon, and east and west have no meaning). At the moment of the equinox, the center of the sun is on the CE (that's what defines an equinox), therefore, geometrically, the center of the sun rises due east and sets due west for an observer on the surface of the spherical earth at the moment of an equinox (except at the poles).

No. Read more.

From the Permaculture Research Institute we read the following:

Quote
Why is the equinox important for permaculture?

One of the first questions my PDC instructor posed to us was, “where does the sun rise?" Well everyone knows the answer to that; the sun rises in the east. No brainer. Alas, we were wrong. Unless you live at the equator, the sun does not rise directly in the east.

I skipped over the rest of your post because I am certain it is just more nonsense from someone who does not know how astronomy works on his own model.

Provide evidence for your claims. Either put up or shut up. You need to prove and provide documented observations for each and every one of your assumptions which you believe to be true. You clearly do not know what your own model even predicts, let alone have evidence that those predictions hold true.

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sokarul

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Context matter. Seems the article is talking about year round.

Try this. Maybe we all can work out the truth.
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/AO/sunrise.html
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Tom Bishop

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Context matter. Seems the article is talking about year round.

No. It is not. It is the sentence right below the heading of "Why is the equinox important for permaculture?"

In the Round Earth model the sun does not rise from directly east on the equinox day, except at the equator.

If you are located on the Tropic of Cancer why would the sun come out of the earth from a direction that is directly Eastwards on the day when the sun is located over the equator? The sun would only come out of the horizon directly Eastwards when the sun was over the Tropic of Cancer.

It's a myth.

Here is another myth: The length of day and night is the same everywhere on earth during equinox.

In 2015 Deborah Scherrer of the Standford Solar Center provided a document titled Ancient Observatories - Timeless Knowledge. On page 39 we see the following:

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Calculating the Equinoxes

Most dictionaries erroneously define the equinox as: “the time or date (twice each year) at which the Sun crosses the celestial equator, when day and night are of equal length (about September 22 and March 20)”. However, there is no place on Earth where the day and night are of equal length on the given days.

Latitude Determines Day Length

In fact, latitude determines day length. Even if day and night aren’t exactly equal on the day of the equinox, there are days when day and night are both very close to 12 hours. However, this date depends on the location’s latitude, and can vary by as much as several weeks. The table shows approximate dates for when day and night are as similar as possible according to latitude.



As we can see, the equal days and equal nights on equinox does not really happen at all. In fact, closer to the equator the time of equal day and equal night (the "equilax") is separated from the date of the equinox by several weeks.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:19:14 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Alpha2Omega

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Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.

This is not correct, Tom. The celestial equator (CE) intersects the geometric horizon at points due east and due west of an observer anywhere on the surface of the spherical earth except at the poles (but at the poles, the CE is the geometric horizon, and east and west have no meaning). At the moment of the equinox, the center of the sun is on the CE (that's what defines an equinox), therefore, geometrically, the center of the sun rises due east and sets due west for an observer on the surface of the spherical earth at the moment of an equinox (except at the poles).

No. Read more.

From the Permaculture Research Institute we read the following:

Quote
Why is the equinox important for permaculture?

One of the first questions my PDC instructor posed to us was, “where does the sun rise?" Well everyone knows the answer to that; the sun rises in the east. No brainer. Alas, we were wrong. Unless you live at the equator, the sun does not rise directly in the east.

That's a site devoted to sustainable agriculture, not astronomy. Their description of the location of sunrise and sunset is simply incorrect. That's all.

The hand-drawn diagram is wrong, too. The arc for summer solstice is correct, showing the sun rising and setting north of due east and west, but the other two are not; the artist mixed up the setting point for winter solstice with the setting point for the equinoxes. As drawn, she has the sun setting further south at the equinoxes than the (northern) winter solstice, which does not happen. Note where the sun sets now, and compare that with where it sets in late December. If you dare!

Here's a better diagram:



And this illustrates what happens as described in my previous post:



Here's what a real astronomy site has to say:

Irrespective of where you are on the globe, the Sun will always rise exactly East and set exactly West on two days: March 21 and September 21 which are the two equinoxes.

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I skipped over the rest of your post because I am certain it is just more nonsense from someone who does not know how astronomy works on his own model.

Provide evidence for your claims.

Either put up or shut up. You need to prove and provide documented observations for each and every one of your assumptions which you believe to be true.

You didn't read the post. How do you know there is no evidence there?

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You clearly do not know what your own model even predicts, let alone have evidence that those predictions hold true.

Again, how do you know, since you didn't read what I wrote?

You could see for yourself, Tom, but it seems that you won't. It would be simple, but you'd rather pontificate and bluster about incorrect descriptions you read somewhere than actually see what happens in the real world.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Tom Bishop

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Those are illustrations, not proof. Where is the evidence?

The equinox is full of myth.

How can you maintain that an observer at the Tropic of Cancer would see the sun come out of the horizon directly eastwards both on the day the sun is over the Tropic of Cancer and when the the day that the sun is over the equator on Equinox day? That is an egregious error. The sun is rising from Northeastern to Southeastern positions throughout the year, and it makes that back and fourth pattern only once per year.

The "equal day and night on Equinox" is a myth as well, as we saw in my last post. Dictionaries, astronomy websites, all wrong. The Stanford Solar Observatory scientist said it herself.

How about proving your assertions?

After every post I will ask for evidence. You will continue to have no evidence, and due to this lack of evidence, you will continue to lose this debate. Beating you guys is very easy. It is getting to be trivial and boring. If truth were on your side you would have mountain of evidence to show us.