Flight times, also WW2

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Flight times, also WW2
« on: October 11, 2018, 04:27:00 PM »
why does it take 10 hours to fly from the UK to Miami USA. but only 8 hours to fly from Hawaii to Japan, when on a flat map, hawaii is on the far left, and Japan on the far right... so all the way across the whole world from left to right.


also, during WW2 Japan bombed pearl harbour, in hawaii. again, why did japan choose to bomb pearl harbour which is all the way across the other side of the world, probably the furthest point away they could choose. and why did nobody see them coming, as they would have had to fly across the USA to get to pearly harbour. also, im guessing during WW2 japan bombers couldn't stop for fuel in other countries, so youre saying they, in the 1940's, japan bombers flew on 1 tank of fuel, all the way across the world over every continent, bombed pearl harbour, did a U turn, and flew all the way back.... on 1 tank of fuel?

also surely the pilots must be in on the round earth "conspiracy" as well then, as they would know the world is flat because they have to fly over the whole world to get to pearl harbour, which on a round earth is right next to them.

i believe many conspiracy theories, but lets face it, the flat earth one is total sh*t. so many people would have to be in on it, the flight times are impossible, and the thing that confuses me most of all.... what do they get out of the lie? what benefit is it to the government to lie and say the earth is round when its really flat. they get nothing out of it..... nobody lies unless it is to their benefit, especially when the lie would involve so many people, as the flat earth lie would.


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Tausami

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Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 04:46:55 PM »
Dude, the bombers didn't fly from Japan to Hawaii. They used aircraft carriers

Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 04:51:48 PM »
where were the aircraft carriers based at the time of the bombings? where where they when the planes set off from them?

also could you answer my other points?

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Tausami

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Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 05:13:22 PM »
So to be clear, your approach to this conversation is to insult us and then ask us to prove ourselves wrong because you're too lazy to do it yourself? You must have a lot of friends

Which is an unnecessarily rude way of saying, if you want someone to do that math you're gonna have to do it yourself. Or maybe Rabinoz will do it for you, they're pretty dedicated

It's not clear to me what your other points are, but if you're willing to clarify that for me I'd be happy to try to approach them
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 05:15:37 PM by Tausami »

Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 05:25:28 PM »
that was slightly confrontational hahahaha. i couldn't find where the aircraft carriers were at the time of the attack.

my other points are very clear...why does it take 10 hours to fly from the UK to Miami USA. but only 8 hours to fly from Hawaii to Japan, when on a flat map, hawaii is on the far left, and Japan on the far right... so all the way across the whole world from left to right?

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rabinoz

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Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 05:59:55 PM »
why does it take 10 hours to fly from the UK to Miami USA. but only 8 hours to fly from Hawaii to Japan, when on a flat map, hawaii is on the far left, and Japan on the far right... so all the way across the whole world from left to right.
Quote
Flight time from Miami to London
Non-Stop flight duration from MIA to LHR is 8 hours 20 minutes (Operated by Finnair)
Quote from: joshpills
also, during WW2 Japan bombed pearl harbour, in hawaii. again, why did japan choose to bomb pearl harbour which is all the way across the other side of the world, probably the furthest point away they could choose. and why did nobody see them coming, as they would have had to fly across the USA to get to pearly harbour. also, im guessing during WW2 japan bombers couldn't stop for fuel in other countries, so youre saying they, in the 1940's, japan bombers flew on 1 tank of fuel, all the way across the world over every continent, bombed pearl harbour, did a U turn, and flew all the way back.... on 1 tank of fuel?
Answered by Tausami and certainly, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour from aircraft carriers.

"x" marks roughly the location of the Japanese fleet when Pearl Harbour was bombed.

And
Quote
Flight time from Honolulu to Tokyo
Non-Stop flight duration from HNL to HND is 8 hours 10 minutes (Operated by Japan Airlines)
About the same as Miami to London.

According to my calculations the flight distances are approximately:
Miami, Florida to London, England on the Flat Earth map about 7700 km and on the Globe, 7100 km and
Tokyo, Japan to Honolulu, Hawaii on the Flat Earth map about 7,200 km and on the Globe, 6200 km.

Not vast differences.

Quote from: joshpills
also surely the pilots must be in on the round earth "conspiracy" as well then, as they would know the world is flat because they have to fly over the whole world to get to pearl harbour, which on a round earth is right next to them.
I'll let some "conspiracy" expert handle that.

PS: Try the Southern Hemisphere air routes, say Johannesburg to/from Perth, Australia (SA Airlines),
      Johannesburg to/from Sydney (QANTAS) and Sydney to/from Santiago, Chile (QANTAS) ;).

Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 06:05:11 PM »
do you have a detailed image of the flat earth map, with clear labels of the countries.

i was unaware there was a completely different map the flat earthers used.

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rabinoz

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Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 07:53:19 PM »
do you have a detailed image of the flat earth map, with clear labels of the countries.

i was unaware there was a completely different map the flat earthers used.
The usual "ice-Wall" FE map is only a version North Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the Globe. Another version of this AEP is "Gleason's Map.





FE Ice Wall Map
     
1892 New Standard Map of the World - Gleason's Map
The only significant difference between them is the orientation.

I have a 4773 x 6794 pixels version but I won't link it here. It can be downloaded from: Gleason's new standard map of the world - Digital Commonwealth
On the right, there is a link to download the full resolution ".tif" file - all 92.8 MB of it or a ".jpeg" version at the same resolution - "only" 7.79 MB.
Distances can be estimated fairly well by simply scaling the map based on 24,900 miles (or 40,000 km) overall diameter though I calculate them from lat/long.

I wrote up quite a bit on its origin in Flat Earth General / Re: Time Zones Message by rabinoz on August 29, 2018, 10:42:16 PM
Alexander Gleason was an ardent American Flat Earther but could hardly patent his map as " ;) Gleason's new Flat Earth map of the world ;)" so he patented it as a "Time Chart".
The AEP map couldn't be patented because it had been used possibly for millennia:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Azimuthal equidistant rojection
History

While it may have been used by ancient Egyptians for star maps in some holy books, the earliest text describing the azimuthal equidistant projection is an 11th-century work by al-Biruni.

The projection appears in many Renaissance maps, and Gerardus Mercator used it for an inset of the north polar regions in sheet 13 and legend 6 of his well-known 1569 map. In France and Russia this projection is named "Postel projection" after Guillaume Postel, who used it for a map in 1581. Many modern star chart planispheres use the polar azimuthal equidistant projection.

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Stash

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Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 11:43:22 PM »
where were the aircraft carriers based at the time of the bombings? where where they when the planes set off from them?

To follow on to Rab's map, I found this one a while ago:


Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 06:33:23 PM »
i was unaware there was a completely different map the flat earthers used.

There are many different ways to project the globe onto a flat surface to make a flat map. All projections will be distorted, and each type will have different limitations, so different projections are used for different purposes.

The Flat Earth Society promotes the idea that the earth is actually flat, instead of a globe. If that were true, making maps would be much simpler; there would be no need for projections, just expand or contract the scale, cropping as needed to keep the size of an individual map sheet manageable, and there would be no distortion. Alas, that's not possible.

I hope you came here for knowledge rather than just to be confrontational. Apparently you succeeded in gaining knowledge: there are different map projections - that's good! If you came to be confrontational, you got your ass handed to you by people on both sides of the flat-earth/globe-earth argument.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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robintex

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Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 07:49:49 PM »
why does it take 10 hours to fly from the UK to Miami USA. but only 8 hours to fly from Hawaii to Japan, when on a flat map, hawaii is on the far left, and Japan on the far right... so all the way across the whole world from left to right.


also, during WW2 Japan bombed pearl harbour, in hawaii. again, why did japan choose to bomb pearl harbour which is all the way across the other side of the world, probably the furthest point away they could choose. and why did nobody see them coming, as they would have had to fly across the USA to get to pearly harbour. also, im guessing during WW2 japan bombers couldn't stop for fuel in other countries, so youre saying they, in the 1940's, japan bombers flew on 1 tank of fuel, all the way across the world over every continent, bombed pearl harbour, did a U turn, and flew all the way back.... on 1 tank of fuel?

also surely the pilots must be in on the round earth "conspiracy" as well then, as they would know the world is flat because they have to fly over the whole world to get to pearl harbour, which on a round earth is right next to them.

i believe many conspiracy theories, but lets face it, the flat earth one is total sh*t. so many people would have to be in on it, the flight times are impossible, and the thing that confuses me most of all.... what do they get out of the lie? what benefit is it to the government to lie and say the earth is round when its really flat. they get nothing out of it..... nobody lies unless it is to their benefit, especially when the lie would involve so many people, as the flat earth lie would.
To answer one question.:
The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor because that was where the American Pacific Fleet was based.  They reasoned that they could make a quick surprise attack , destroy the Fleet , and they could eliminate the American threat to their expansion plans and the United States would be willing to make concessions that were favorable to Japan. However, I think it was Admiral Yamamoto (spelling ?) who said "When we bombed Pearl Harbor we lost the war."

There is quite a lot of other history involved in the attack on Pearl Harbor. The attack fleet included a large number of all types of ships beside the aircraft carriers. They left from a secret port in Japan and observed strict radio silence. They kept to a route to avoid all of the common shipping routes to avoid being spotted, which was all part of the success of their surprise attack on Pearl Harbor .

Much of the rest of your post has been answered.

I think joshpills is making fun of the flat earth if he is basing his comments on the so-called "flat earth map" (which is actually the North Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the globe.)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:15:30 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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robintex

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Re: Flight times, also WW2
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 09:04:53 PM »
where were the aircraft carriers based at the time of the bombings? where where they when the planes set off from them?

also could you answer my other points?

You, Sir ! Are either playing the dumb act, or if not , you need to read a little history !😆
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !