Proof for a flat earth is all around us

For thousands of years, people knew that the earth was flat. Then Efimovich created his organization and starting formulating the lie that is the mythically spherical earth. No matter what we throw at them, the round-earthers change what the say just to hang on to the dying belief that the earth is a three-dimensional circle (which isn't the lowest energy shape in space, by the way). At least flat-earthers place their beliefs on evidence and THEIR OWN OBSERVATIONS.

I have read the most recent fifteen or so posts on these forums in their entirety, and I can honestly say my opinion has been swayed even more to the flat-earth side. The round-earthers just can't stand to give up their BELIEF that the earth is round. So far, round-earthers have not been able to explain the observed world as well as the arguments of those who know the earth is flat.

If you can show me just one, ONLY ONE example showing the round-earth model explaining something the obviously correct flat-earth model can't, I will renounce the flat-earth model and embrace the round-earth model. Good luck.

You Sir are correct and wise in your thinking.  The truth is there is NO direct proof for a round earth but there is for a flat one. Round earthers read their textbooks and then say with all certanty that they are correct. Your eyes dont lie, not with something this important

Okay. Let me tell you my OWN beliefs from my OWN observations.

1. The horizon line curves. It wouldn't if the earth was flat.

2. If the earth was flat, I would be able to see farther than I do. Object moving away from me in the distance gradually fall below the horizon line, therefore, the world is curved, not flat.

3. if the world is flat, and the sun is above it, then the earth would be lighted all at once, or not at all. People I personally trust, who live in different time zones than me have nightfall before me. Therefore, the earth is AT LEAST curved.

4. constellations shift as you move along the earth, therefore, it is at least curved.


here's some nice resources:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_087.html

And also

The border of the shadow of Earth on the Moon during the partial phase of a lunar eclipse is always circular, no matter how high the Moon is over the horizon. Only a sphere casts a circular shadow in every direction, a circular disk casts an elliptical shadow in most directions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

BTW I don't know who this "Efimovich" guy is, but the idea of a flat earth came from early Greece.


The fact is, there's no reason for a compiracy that the earth is a sphere. It simply is, and it has been widely known for centuries and centuries.

1. The horizon line curves. It wouldn't if the earth was flat. -- Many parts of the 'earth' have broken away since it creation many thousands of years ago. We believe the landmass is shaped like a disc (the most natural shape in space, actually). But what you are talking about likely isn't due to the earth's pancakedness. Likely it is because of the natural atmospheric fogging that happens over considerably long distances (many miles on a very clear day). You'll notice that due to the way light works and atmospherics plays out that the fog leads you to see in a vast circle around yourself. That's a CIRCLE, not a SPHERE, proven by my view of the stars not being obstructed by these atmospheric effects.

2. If the earth was flat, I would be able to see farther than I do. Object moving away from me in the distance gradually fall below the horizon line, therefore, the world is curved, not flat. -- These are almost the same exact effects talked about on the previous point. Try again, please.

3. if the world is flat, and the sun is above it, then the earth would be lighted all at once, or not at all. People I personally trust, who live in different time zones than me have nightfall before me. Therefore, the earth is AT LEAST curved. -- Perhaps your mindset is stuck in the MYTH that the sun is **NINETY-THREE MILLION MILES** away. It is, in fact, barely several dozen miles away. Due to the natural (and DIRECTLY OBSERVABLE) dissipation of light at the rate of 1/d^2, it makes it ever more likely that flat-earth hypothesis is the RIGHT ONE. Round-earthers can't even explain this as well as flat-earthers, and yet they try to use it against us?

4. constellations shift as you move along the earth, therefore, it is at least curved. -- Yeah, and it works on a flat-earth, too. When the pancake is thousands of miles wide with stars only a few hundred miles above, it's quite easy and MUCH more reasonably understood. I'm sorry, but I can't take your word on stars being quadrillions of miles away. Maybe if you made some REASONABLE ARGUMENTS, I would be more interested in your belief system.

4. constellations shift as you move along the earth, therefore, it is at least curved. -- Yeah, and it works on a flat-earth, too. When the pancake is thousands of miles wide with stars only a few hundred miles above, it's quite easy and MUCH more reasonably understood.

Yes but it's not just that they shift, according flat earth theorys the north pole is the center of the earth and the south pole is an ice wall around the edge, now if two people were to stand at a random spots on the north pole they would both see basicaly the same stars, that works for both theorys, however if two people were to stand at random spots at the south pole, according to the flat earth theory (south pole being an ice wall around the edge) they should both see different stars, but you don't, you see the same stars from any where on the south pole, in other words you are standing in the same generall location, if the south pole goes all the way around the earth shouldn't you be saperated by hundreds of miles?

Next, why would all the planets in the intire solar system be round (spherical) but the earth isn't? you say that the most naturall shape in space is a disk, then why is most everything (comets stars planets asteroids) in space a spherical shape?

1. The horizon line curves. It wouldn't if the earth was flat. -- Many parts of the 'earth' have broken away since it creation many thousands of years ago. We believe the landmass is shaped like a disc (the most natural shape in space, actually). But what you are talking about likely isn't due to the earth's pancakedness. Likely it is because of the natural atmospheric fogging that happens over considerably long distances (many miles on a very clear day). You'll notice that due to the way light works and atmospherics plays out that the fog leads you to see in a vast circle around yourself. That's a CIRCLE, not a SPHERE, proven by my view of the stars not being obstructed by these atmospheric effects.

What? I thought this thread was about personal observations, not some "we believe" mumbo jumbo. Even on a clear day, when you can see the horizon line, it curves, and there's clear definition between the sky and the water.

2. If the earth was flat, I would be able to see farther than I do. Object moving away from me in the distance gradually fall below the horizon line, therefore, the world is curved, not flat. -- These are almost the same exact effects talked about on the previous point. Try again, please.

Mmmhmmm ...

3. if the world is flat, and the sun is above it, then the earth would be lighted all at once, or not at all. People I personally trust, who live in different time zones than me have nightfall before me. Therefore, the earth is AT LEAST curved. -- Perhaps your mindset is stuck in the MYTH that the sun is **NINETY-THREE MILLION MILES** away. It is, in fact, barely several dozen miles away. Due to the natural (and DIRECTLY OBSERVABLE) dissipation of light at the rate of 1/d^2, it makes it ever more likely that flat-earth hypothesis is the RIGHT ONE. Round-earthers can't even explain this as well as flat-earthers, and yet they try to use it against us?

Right, of course! How could I be so DUMB?! The dissapation of light is 1/d^2! You proved me so so so wrong!

To be serious, I don't believe you at all. I don't know much about dissapation and such, but I can see the sun revolve around the earth. It comes from one end, and continues to the next. That would have to be one curved disc you're talking about.

4. constellations shift as you move along the earth, therefore, it is at least curved. -- Yeah, and it works on a flat-earth, too. When the pancake is thousands of miles wide with stars only a few hundred miles above, it's quite easy and MUCH more reasonably understood. I'm sorry, but I can't take your word on stars being quadrillions of miles away. Maybe if you made some REASONABLE ARGUMENTS, I would be more interested in your belief system.

So acording to you, the earth is a flat disc, and the sun, moon and stars are all hanging above it? So if you believe all that, then the moon, sun and all the stars would be viewable from the flat earth. Your explaination only works if you could only see a certain area right above you. And yeah, what EnragedPenguin said.


Also, you said nothing of my quote from wikipedia.

The border of the shadow of Earth on the Moon during the partial phase of a lunar eclipse is always circular, no matter how high the Moon is over the horizon. Only a sphere casts a circular shadow in every direction, a circular disk casts an elliptical shadow in most directions.

Also, if the earth incredibly big, and the moon is teenie, then why would the earth have a shadow on the moon at all. Especially since the sun is also above the earth.

Believe, no matter what you say about the earth being flat they will try to throw down your facts. U and I know that the Earth is flat, and you are not alone my brother.  As the famous philosopher Rene Descartes put it
"I think therefore I am"  Use your mind not the textbook

Believe, no matter what you say about the earth being flat they will try to throw down your facts. U and I know that the Earth is flat, and you are not alone my brother.  As the famous philosopher Rene Descartes put it
"I think therefore I am"  Use your mind not the textbook

Umm.... right, you keep believing what you want in the face of real fact. By the way, I was homeschooled and through most of my schooling no textbooks were used. I interacted in my world to learn, and even I know that the world is round. And I think you have to be completely loopy to think otherwise.

... and I'll keep believing that the world is round in the face of pure "fact" that the flat-land believers have manufactured.

I think therefore I am.





You know, if you can't tell people why you believe in it, you don't really know yourself.

....in other words you are standing in the same generall location, if the south pole goes all the way around the earth shouldn't you be saperated by hundreds of miles?

I don't think you realize just how big the Earth is.  The measured radius is approximately 3963.2 miles, slightly more than just a few hundred.  And using that measurement it is easy to determine just how much the Earth would curve using pythagorean's theorem x^2 + y^2 = z^2

using the radius as the hypotenuse z, and a horizontal change for x, it can be determined the vertical change y per unit x, for which I'll use one mile

x^2 + y^2 = z^2
(3963.2^2 - 1^2)^.5 = y
3963.11987 = y

about a change of .000126 miles for a horizontal distance of one mile
this converts to about 8 inches

hmmm, I really find it difficult for anyone to be able to visibly notice a change of 8 inches over the course of a mile.   Even with farther visibility of ten miles, there is only a 66 foot change, which is hardly noticeable.

Oh yeah, and "scienctific proof" is NOT BASED ON OBSERVATIONS.

the round-earthers change what the say just to hang on to the dying belief that the earth is a three-dimensional circle (which isn't the lowest energy shape in space, by the way).

Ha! I know this one's definitely a joke. Dying belief? I think you gave yourself away there.
But anyway...

I'm not sure what you mean by 'energy efficient' but a sphere is the shape that naturally results from gravity acting on massive objects. This is because only a sphere allows every point on its surface to have the same distance from the centre, so that no part of the object can further 'fall' toward its centre.

Also you talk about backing up claims? Well I'd like to see you back these up.

Many parts of the 'earth' have broken away since it creation many thousands of years ago.

Prove it.

Likely it is because of the natural atmospheric fogging that happens over considerably long distances (many miles on a very clear day). You'll notice that due to the way light works and atmospherics plays out that the fog leads you to see in a vast circle around yourself. That's a CIRCLE, not a SPHERE, proven by my view of the stars not being obstructed by these atmospheric effects.

Or perhaps its because the Earth is a sphere?

Perhaps your mindset is stuck in the MYTH that the sun is **NINETY-THREE MILLION MILES** away. It is, in fact, barely several dozen miles away. Due to the natural (and DIRECTLY OBSERVABLE) dissipation of light at the rate of 1/d^2, it makes it ever more likely that flat-earth hypothesis is the RIGHT ONE. Round-earthers can't even explain this as well as flat-earthers, and yet they try to use it against us?

Perhaps your mindset is stuck in the concept of a flat Earth. These effects can also be explained by the 'round Earth hypothesis'. What you have been offerring are not proofs, just alternative explanations which are not necessarily valid.

Your post says that the "round-earthers" are not providing any information. HA
     READ THE POSTS.  Almost every post that has been backed up by information has been by a non-retard, as you call them "round-earthers"

So the sun is only a couple of dozen miles away from Earth eh? If that's a comeback for proving the world is flat, then it proves that it isn't. How come no planes have crashed into the sun.... more to the point how come they haven't melted? Also, if the world was flat, a plane could travel around the world in a straight line. However, it can't, because the world is round, therefore it has to travel in a reality.

So the sun is only a couple of dozen miles away from Earth eh? If that's a comeback for proving the world is flat, then it proves that it isn't. How come no planes have crashed into the sun....

Planes don't typically fly dozens of miles above the earth.

more to the point how come they haven't melted?

The sun is smaller and, therefore, produces less energy than mainstream science would have you believe.  But it's also closer, so the end result on Earth is the same.

Also, if the world was flat, a plane could travel around the world in a straight line. However, it can't, because the world is round, therefore it has to travel in a reality.

A plane can travel "around the world" in the same sense that a record player's needle can travel around a record.  You start off in one place, travel in a circle around the earth's central pole, and end up back where you started from.

you guys are ####### nuts... the earth is round... haven't you seen pics from space?and if it is flat why can't you fall off the edge???

Daniel i don't believe any of your baloney for one second. David Icke speaks more sence.... and that's saying something!

How are there volcanic eruptions if the earth is flat? if the earth is flat there would be no core. If there was no core, how is there molten lava and shit?

You say that the Sun is far closer to the Earth than round-earthers believe and that it has a far lower intersity.  You also ask for proof from the round earthers, whilst refuting that mathematics can prove anything (physics being simply applied mathematics).

I therefore set a challenge in the same vein as the one that started this thread and using your own applied restrictions; prove, without using mathematics, the exact distance from the Earth and intensity of the Sun.  Once this is proven irrefutably, then maybe round-earthers will begin to be swayed.[/quote]

You say that the Sun is far closer to the Earth than round-earthers believe and that it has a far lower intersity.  You also ask for proof from the round earthers, whilst refuting that mathematics can prove anything (physics being simply applied mathematics).

I therefore set a challenge in the same vein as the one that started this thread and using your own applied restrictions; prove, without using mathematics, the exact distance from the Earth and intensity of the Sun.  Once this is proven irrefutably, then maybe round-earthers will begin to be swayed.

[/quote]

Okay, guys, there are no flat earthers. They are putting you on. And it's only mildly funny. Don't you guys have jobs? Probably not.

The only hoax is the existence of people who understand math and science AND also believe in a flat earth. Sorry, I don't buy it. Nice fake site, though.

No matter what we throw at them, the round-earthers change what the say just to hang on to the dying belief that the earth is a three-dimensional circle (which isn't the lowest energy shape in space, by the way).

umm.....actually, it is.
let's think about this rationally.  All energy, according to intropy, uses itself up over a period of time.  How long an amount of energy can be exerted over a length of time before losing potency is called it's decay rate.  for our purposes, we'll imagine that these can be symbolized as a line that extends for the distance a certain energetic particle can move in one second.  acknowledging that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, and that space can be described using three dimensions, we see that a sphere is in fact the lowest energy spatial figure; all points on the surface are equidistant from the center point of the sphere.  to even insinuate[i/] that it is not is to ignore the basic realities of the universe.  please note, flat-foots, i'm not relying on any "academic institution" learning.  this is all very logical and doesn't need to be taught.

Also, this one's been bugging me: why did the governments of every nation in the world decide to go in on this?  there is no material gain and, evidently, no psychological gain either.  When we question them, they don't throw it in our faces, so it serves no purpose.

You Sir are correct and wise in your thinking.  The truth is there is NO direct proof for a round earth but there is for a flat one. Round earthers read their textbooks and then say with all certanty that they are correct. Your eyes dont lie, not with something this important

Ever heard of an optical illusion?

Tool.

Do us a favor, find the edge of the earth, and jump off.

Also, this one's been bugging me: why did the governments of every nation in the world decide to go in on this?  there is no material gain and, evidently, no psychological gain either.  When we question them, they don't throw it in our faces, so it serves no purpose.[/i]

I asked that in another thread and he said that he "wasn't sure"

like at first i thought it was just a satirical page. But then i started reading all this stuff you guys have written.

I was a round "earther" guy but then i saw some of your reasoning. And i was immidiatly converted.  Like you guys are geniuses. Your smarter than Copernicus, Galileo and Newton combined.

But then i read further and saw flaws in your arguement. Like you say that a flat earth fullfills all the evidence as a round earth (and in some cases moreso). I totally agree. A flat earth is so much more obvious. But a donut shaped earth is even better.
 
like seriously i could use all of your reasoning and prove that the earth is in the shape of a giant Jay Leno chin.

no joke.
you guys should actually start some kind of comedy act.
this is possilby the funniest thing I've ever seen.

i have one question which i want you to answer. you seem to have gotten around the whole "weather", "time zone", "gravity" and "other planets are round" arguements. How about this arguement.

Here is an experiment. I have a boat and a compass. Actually scratch that. No compass. Cos you guys will probably dont believe in north or south either. Ok I have a boat. And I sail i one direction. And I do this for like months. Why then do I end up where I started? I'm pretty sure people have tried this before. Like all those boat/plane/balloon adventuring ppl. If you think they are conspiring too then you must also think every international airline is conspiring. And if you think they are conspiring you pretty much don't believe anyone but your self. In other words you are a psyco. So either, by this simple reasoning, you belive my experiement exists and works, or your a psyco. You chose.

Anyway from this experiment we don't nessecarily prove the earth is round. But we have narrowed it down. We hav eshown that if you go in one direction you will eventually end up where you came from. Here are some possible reasons why.

1. The earth is a tyre shape and we live on the tread
2. The earth flat but it is like a videogame of snake. If you go through a wall on the right, you come out on the left.
3. The earth is a ball (i.e.) round


Read this next bit if your a pro-flater and you are going to reply.

I do not propose the earth is round. I propose the earth is one of the above 3 options. We do not need to regard weather, climate, icecaps, timezones or stars. We simply need to consider my experiment. Because if we can prove the earth is not flat from this experiment then we need not prove it non-flat otherwise.

I am suprised there is no "Tyre Earth Society Forum" as it would be equally as legitimate.

So yeah, prove to me how i get back to where i started without some kind of teleportation device on the edge of the flat earth.

(also, just for personal amusment answer me some more questions.
how flat are we? Like envelope thickness? Or are we infintismilly flat like a line in the number plane? Are there people on the other side of the flat earth? Or are there some roots hanging down? How does GPS work?  What do you guys do when you catch a plan across the "globe". Have you gone to school? I understand many of you disregard textbooks which i personally applaud. But how educated are you? Do you have PhD science degrees? How much pot do you smoke weekly? please answer these truthfully cos i really want to know.  Personally I am a 17 year old high school student studying maths chemistry and physics and have PhD teachers for all.  I read textbooks and dont smoke pot. Im only here because Im bludging my homework. Rock on you crazy crazy legends. I applaud your open thinking but dont think you should try and mix science and belief. Your way way out of your depth its fucking hilarious. Just kidding. But seriously, make a movie. You make serious moolah!!

Orbital Spaceflight, the south pole, circumnavigations by ships and airplanes are three things that prove a spherical earth.  A spherical earth also allows for sattelites of all kinds, which provide for communications, and imagry of the earth. A spherical Earth is the only possible explaination for accurate GPS systems to work.  As that is more than the just one example of something that a spherical earth can explain that the originator of the thread required, he should abandon his horribly ignorant view point and accept science for what it is-- science

Orbital Spaceflight, the south pole, circumnavigations by ships and airplanes are three things that prove a spherical earth.  A spherical earth also allows for sattelites of all kinds, which provide for communications, and imagry of the earth. A spherical Earth is the only possible explaination for accurate GPS systems to work.  As that is more than the just one example of something that a spherical earth can explain that the originator of the thread required, he should abandon his horribly ignorant view point and accept science for what it is-- science

You're really not helping the round Earth view with this, especially the "only possible explanation" bit.  Have you even tried coming up with alternate explanations?

-Erasmus

Likely it is because of the natural atmospheric fogging that happens over considerably long distances (many miles on a very clear day).

So if I were to look out at the horizon with my own eyes and see that it is flat, as many, many flat-earthers believe, wouldn't my eyes just be clouded by atmospheric fogging?

So what explains the satellite imagery of Earth that can show any angle of the obvious spherical shape that we see?

Are these supposed to be fake?

Oh yeah, and "scienctific proof" is NOT BASED ON OBSERVATIONS.

It isn't? I thought scientific proof was entirely based on observation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

Your eyes dont lie, not with something this important

Likely it is because of the natural atmospheric fogging that happens over considerably long distances (many miles on a very clear day). You'll notice that due to the way light works and atmospherics plays out that the fog leads you to see in a vast circle around yourself.

I see a slight contradiction here...

You Sir are correct and wise in your thinking.  The truth is there is NO direct proof for a round earth but there is for a flat one. Round earthers read their textbooks and then say with all certanty that they are correct. Your eyes dont lie, not with something this important

You sir are an idiot. There is incredible amounts of proof for a round Earth, and the only proof of a flat Earth is you peoples crazy, unrealistic, moronic statements, which contain no proof backing it.

(I didn't read anything else other then this statement)