Rojava

So there's a region in northern Syria that revolted against Assad in 2011 and gained autonomy, establishing a secular Kurdish democracy. It's commonly known as Rojava, the official name being Democratic Federation of North Syria. What's interesting about it is its system. It's a form of libertarian socialism inspired by Ocalan, utilising direct democracy to a great extent, and values tolerance and diversity. This is evidenced by the fact that multiple different ethnic and religious groups live in the area with equal rights and free of persecution, such as Kurds, Arabs, Turkmens and Asyrians, Muslims, atheists, Orthodox and Catholic Christians. Additionally, they have made great efforts to bring gender equality to an extent unique to the area. Their stated goal is to create a federalized Syria that follows their model. I urge you to research the subject a bit more for yourselves.

What are your thoughts? Keep in mind that I only recently learned about the situation and I don't know much about it, so I'm interested in people's opinions and whether I'm missing something important.

Sounds interesting. It would be nice to let it go to see what comes of us. It sounds like something that's probably going to get crushed by every country surrounding it though.

Sounds like what happens when people are free to choose.
I wish them well. It will not be easy for them.

Sounds fake.

Rojave has been created with support of jihadist groups and ISIS. First ISIS has entered there and occupied the terriroty. After that, before Syrian army resqued there, before them terrorist YPG/PKK has occupied there from ISIS and declared their independence. I don't believe their sincere. They are just pawn who are being used by satanic United States CIA. Their cost is relevant with USA's giving them the value. When USA give up to support them, they will finish how ISIS has done.

Sounds interesting. It would be nice to let it go to see what comes of us. It sounds like something that's probably going to get crushed by every country surrounding it though.

Agreed, but it has already lasted 6 years which is more than I would expect, so maybe it's here to stay for a bit lonfer.

PYD/PKK/SDF has displaced Kurds from North Syria, not the ISIS. How can they talk about freedom of Kurds? Impossible. They are just pawns.

PYD/PKK/SDF has displaced Kurds from North Syria, not the ISIS. How can they talk about freedom of Kurds? Impossible. They are just pawns.

They're literally Kurds, why would they displace Kurds in the area? I'm not sure what you're talking about, do you have a source? I know you're probably biased, since your country has imprisoned Ocalan and has banned PKK and PYD, and you probably agree with that, but if you have something concrete I want to hear the other side of the argument.

Quote from: wise on September 04, 2018, 09:41:11 AM

PYD/PKK/SDF has displaced Kurds from North Syria, not the ISIS. How can they talk about freedom of Kurds? Impossible. They are just pawns.

They're literally Kurds, why would they displace Kurds in the area? I'm not sure what you're talking about, do you have a source? I know you're probably biased, since your country has imprisoned Ocalan and has banned PKK and PYD, and you probably agree with that, but if you have something concrete I want to hear the other side of the argument.

I'm not a biased person. I've lost 5 of my close friends under bomb of ISIS. I've many knowledge about Kurdish movements. They have displaced other Kurds whose are not agreed them. This is a political issue. They are politically pawn of USA and displaced whose did not agreed being dog of USA. Ocalan has killed more than 30K. people are under pressure and carrying ocalan's posters at the cost are payed by americans. but if the state is dominated in a place, the name ocalan that is there is not spoken anymore.

I don't need any other source except myself. I'm already here, I have many Kurd friends, I've stayed somewhere theres and more reliable than all other sources. I'm a flat earth knower and flat earthers never lie. 

Quote from: Pezevenk on September 04, 2018, 10:26:09 AM

Quote from: wise on September 04, 2018, 09:41:11 AM

PYD/PKK/SDF has displaced Kurds from North Syria, not the ISIS. How can they talk about freedom of Kurds? Impossible. They are just pawns.

They're literally Kurds, why would they displace Kurds in the area? I'm not sure what you're talking about, do you have a source? I know you're probably biased, since your country has imprisoned Ocalan and has banned PKK and PYD, and you probably agree with that, but if you have something concrete I want to hear the other side of the argument.

I'm not a biased person. I've lost 5 of my close friends under bomb of ISIS. I've many knowledge about Kurdish movements. They have displaced other Kurds whose are not agreed them. This is a political issue. They are politically pawn of USA and displaced whose did not agreed being dog of USA. Ocalan has killed more than 30K. people are under pressure and carrying ocalan's posters at the cost are payed by americans. but if the state is dominated in a place, the name ocalan that is there is not spoken anymore.

I am well aware that a lot of people have been killed, but that is something that usually happens when nations are trying to gain independence. I really don't know about your claim of 30k. I also know that they do have some support from the US, since they're against Assad, and, well, if they have the US' support, that's good for them I guess, it means they probably won't get bombed by them and annihilated. But they're also fighting against ISIS which is a good thing in my book. I'm not sure what most of the rest of your comment means, it's a bit confusing.

I don't need any other source except myself. I'm already here, I have many Kurd friends, I've stayed somewhere theres and more reliable than all other sources. I'm a flat earth knower and flat earthers never lie. 

"Because I say so" is never a very good source.

Quote from: wise on September 04, 2018, 11:58:52 AM

Quote from: Pezevenk on September 04, 2018, 10:26:09 AM

Quote from: wise on September 04, 2018, 09:41:11 AM

PYD/PKK/SDF has displaced Kurds from North Syria, not the ISIS. How can they talk about freedom of Kurds? Impossible. They are just pawns.

They're literally Kurds, why would they displace Kurds in the area? I'm not sure what you're talking about, do you have a source? I know you're probably biased, since your country has imprisoned Ocalan and has banned PKK and PYD, and you probably agree with that, but if you have something concrete I want to hear the other side of the argument.

I'm not a biased person. I've lost 5 of my close friends under bomb of ISIS. I've many knowledge about Kurdish movements. They have displaced other Kurds whose are not agreed them. This is a political issue. They are politically pawn of USA and displaced whose did not agreed being dog of USA. Ocalan has killed more than 30K. people are under pressure and carrying ocalan's posters at the cost are payed by americans. but if the state is dominated in a place, the name ocalan that is there is not spoken anymore.

I am well aware that a lot of people have been killed, but that is something that usually happens when nations are trying to gain independence. I really don't know about your claim of 30k. I also know that they do have some support from the US, since they're against Assad, and, well, if they have the US' support, that's good for them I guess, it means they probably won't get bombed by them and annihilated. But they're also fighting against ISIS which is a good thing in my book. I'm not sure what most of the rest of your comment means, it's a bit confusing.

Quote

I don't need any other source except myself. I'm already here, I have many Kurd friends, I've stayed somewhere theres and more reliable than all other sources. I'm a flat earth knower and flat earthers never lie. 

"Because I say so" is never a very good source.

You are confusing because you were wrong informed by media about PKK/SDF/YPG. They are in Turkey a well known terrorist organization killing thoussnds since 80's or earlier. We have grown with wathing genocides made by PKK for years. Their modt known action type is village raid and massacre. South east of Turkey is hilly and residants are rare. Security is less so. PKK has massacred all these people for years. They have kidnapped childs from their villages. Most if their militants are suns of these kidnapped people. Against PKK's raid to villages, Turkey have started to use a method is known as self-guard. In other say, a system depends on armed the villagers and give them ability to defend themselves. After self-guard system happened, PKK has started to be more active in Iraq and Syria as military/terrorist group, and has started to do politics in Turkey. I'm sure they are still doing massacres in Iraq ans Syria. But because of both mefia disinformation company it doesn't leaking the public. On the other hand, another manipulation about ISID continues. They are both USA backed terrorist group. They are not fighting themselves but against only legal government.

Pkk's fighting against ISIS is a lie, is a media disinformation, a manipulation and an effort tender the Pkk as a cute organization.

Do not wash! We know what the s.o.w'es they are!

I said I know they are involved in an armed conflict against Turkey, and they've done some pretty bad stuff. But, on the other hand, Turkey has done some pretty bad things against Kurds as well. Calling rebellious groups terrorist has become an easy way of villifying them and many people don't think that their countries often only became independent thanks to similar "terrorists".

I said I know they are involved in an armed conflict against Turkey, and they've done some pretty bad stuff. But, on the other hand, Turkey has done some pretty bad things against Kurds as well. Calling rebellious groups terrorist has become an easy way of villifying them and many people don't think that their countries often only became independent thanks to similar "terrorists".

I don't think so.

You don't think what?

I don't agree with you.

Ok.

'The West' used to call what is now ISIS 'rebels'. Despite all the ghastly shit they were doing, they were against Assad, so they were 'the underdog'. 'Rebels' fighting an oppressive regime so all the western nations media were falling over themselves to give these hard done by people a good plug. But now we call them ISIS. The most hideous terrorist group to ever operate. In reality, nothing has changed with this group but there barbarism could not be hid forever.

Now with the Kurds, I don't know a great deal amount of but I do know that Turkey is a legitimate sovereign state. And if someone wants to pick up arms and kill people, especially innocent people, they are not 'freedom fighters'. They are not mere 'rebels', they are terrorist thugs, even if they are oppressed or discriminated - violence and murder of innocent people is not the way to peace so I have zero sympathy for those that believe killing innocent people is a useful tool for change.

wise lives in Turkey so I prefer wise as a source of information in the region than our own incredibly biased and dodgy MSM outlets that peddle us filtered and 'alternate facts'.

This Rojava sounds like it was born out of violence. It is not recognised as a sovereign state existing in its own right and Assad will probably want it back under his rule. I dont think America will defend it too hard either. Once they are done with it, they will wash their hands of it.

Well according to your definition Australia was also founded by "terrorist thugs", not to mention the USA. Plus they have stopped making attacks against innocents since the 1980s as far as I know. Do you know many countries not born out of violence? I'm not sure how you expect them to gain independence non-violently, do you think if they make puppy eyes and say please with a very cute voice Erdogan will say "fine, I'll leave you alone"? Besides, they are calling for peace with Turkey...

I don't know why you think that because he lives in Turkey he has unbiased information, he lives nowhere close to the area and the Turkish media are way more biased, and he has admitted this without realizing it in the past.

I have admitted media are way more biased, but I am not at all. Even about Rojava. It is a sad a Greek suppors some terrorists fight against Turkey, but I don't talk about their Macedonia problem. I think this is our difference.

Pezevenk. In one hand, you are denying a country call themselves as Macedonia because you have an area has same name. I do not agreee or disagree with this, although they have that right, but I do not care this problem because Greece is our neighbour. On the other hand, you are using all possiblities for targeting Turkey, including support a terrorist group and claim they are freedom fighters. In meanwhile some FETÖ terrorists are living in Greece whose tried a coup and killed tens.

It is corrected. Greece is a terrorist supporter country and you a greek clearly using all possiblity to support the terrorism. because we are more and more stronger than your little country, you hate us and you know you have an only chance that only, supporting the terrorism.

You are lucky that we do not agree Greece as an enemy. If it was so, so we could occupy the all Greece in about 6-12 hours. You are lucky. I hope you consider to use your luck as well. unfortunately, your little country is spending its credits day by day.

This Rojava sounds like it was born out of violence.

Yes, that's how all states are born.  How do you think it works?  Put the appropriate forms in to a committee?

Turkey itself was only born 100 years ago out of the extreme violence of WWI and atrocities such as the Armenian genocide, assembling itself from the wreckage of the Ottoman empire.  And how do you think the Ottoman's got to control so much territory and become a "legit sovereign state" in the first place?  Asked everyone nicely?

And if someone wants to pick up arms and kill people, especially innocent people, they are not 'freedom fighters'. They are not mere 'rebels'

Name me a rebel group, freedom fighter or "legitimate sovereign state" who hasn't killed innocent people.

so I prefer wise as a source of information

Good luck with that.

'The West' used to call what is now ISIS 'rebels'. Despite all the ghastly shit they were doing, they were against Assad, so they were 'the underdog'. 'Rebels' fighting an oppressive regime so all the western nations media were falling over themselves to give these hard done by people a good plug. But now we call them ISIS.

The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend, but they can sometimes be useful as a tool.