Poll

Pi or Phew?

Pi=3.14159
12 (92.3%)
Phew=3.17157
1 (7.7%)
Still not sure
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Voting closed: September 21, 2018, 01:52:10 AM

Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157

  • 225 Replies
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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #90 on: September 18, 2018, 12:24:38 AM »
2. Accept Phew.  8)
If you want any sane person to accept phew, provide a compelling argument for why someone should. Show how this number comes to be with a direct link to the circumference of a circle, not a diagonal. Also, stop claiming such nonsense as the tangent is magically shorter than the arc for small angles.
People have done that for pi. It isn't that complicated.
You could do it yourself if you really wanted to and come up with reasonable limits for pi.

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MicroBeta

  • 2490
  • +1/-0
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #91 on: September 18, 2018, 01:43:58 AM »
Suggestion for DavidOrJohn:
1. Use one username for one person, not two.
2. Accept Phew.  8)
You've had your ass handed to you so many times on this subject.  It's been proven that phew doesn't work for any real world calculation.  Yet you keep making up scenarios and lose every time and keep aiming these posts at a few individuals...almost like a troll does.

Mike
Since it costs 2.72¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 5.44¢.

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2018, 02:55:50 AM »
Phew is not only clear as the sun, but also powerful as Hercules to beat the failed Pi.
I can't believe Jack and Mike haven't yet repented after months of Pi vs Phew debate.
 
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2018, 04:02:22 AM »
Phew is not only clear as the sun, but also powerful as Hercules to beat the failed Pi.
I can't believe Jack and Mike haven't yet repented after months of Pi vs Phew debate.
Anyone paying attention with an IQ greater than a rock can easily believe it.
You have had your ass handed to you each time you have brought up your Phew nonsense.
No sane person would accept your nonsense.

It requires a circular sector which fits inside a triangle to be larger than the triangle.
It requires a shortcut to be longer than a longer path.
It literally makes no sense.

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frenat

  • 3752
  • +0/-2
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2018, 05:04:17 AM »
Phew is not only clear as the sun, but also powerful as Hercules to beat the failed Pi.
I can't believe Jack and Mike haven't yet repented after months of Pi vs Phew debate.
You haven't shown that Pi has failed. You've NEVER shown a single case where phew works at all.  You're either trolling or delusional or both.

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Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • +0/-0
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #95 on: September 18, 2018, 09:17:15 AM »
Phew is not only clear as the sun, but also powerful as Hercules to beat the failed Pi.
I can't believe Jack and Mike haven't yet repented after months of Pi vs Phew debate.
You haven't shown that Pi has failed. You've NEVER shown a single case where phew works at all.  You're either trolling or delusional or both.

Trollusional?? 😂😂
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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MicroBeta

  • 2490
  • +1/-0
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #96 on: September 18, 2018, 03:11:10 PM »
Phew is not only clear as the sun, but also powerful as Hercules to beat the failed Pi.
I can't believe Jack and Mike haven't yet repented after months of Pi vs Phew debate.
You haven't shown that Pi has failed. You've NEVER shown a single case where phew works at all.  You're either trolling or delusional or both.

Trollusional?? 😂😂
Yeah, he can't make comments like that unless he is actually nothing but a common troll.  It's the only logical answer.

Mike
Since it costs 2.72¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 5.44¢.

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2018, 08:02:05 PM »
Arch segmen length for X° = sinX° + (tanX°)^2 * 0.29289^2

For 30° >> 0.52859
For 45° >> 0.79289

For other angles?
Let me research it first.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 08:04:59 PM by Danang »
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2018, 08:08:25 PM »
Phew is not only clear as the sun, but also powerful as Hercules to beat the failed Pi.
I can't believe Jack and Mike haven't yet repented after months of Pi vs Phew debate.
You haven't shown that Pi has failed. You've NEVER shown a single case where phew works at all.  You're either trolling or delusional or both.

Trollusional?? 😂😂

>> SENSASITIONAL \o/
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2018, 10:56:41 PM »
Arch segmen length for X° = sinX° + (tanX°)^2 * 0.29289^2
Anyone with even a basic knowledge of trig knows this is BS.
Everyone knows that as X approaches 90 degrees, tan increases without bounds (i.e. tends towards infinity).
Meanwhile the arc length is a mere pi/2.

How about this, provide a derivation for the value of "PHEW" from first principles.
Noting that by definition it is nothing more than the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #100 on: September 19, 2018, 06:44:10 AM »
"Anyone with even a basic knowledge of trig knows this is BS."

>> My workshop and analysis so far is on the territory of Phew/4.
While Phew can show real calculation & equation, Pi is still trapped in series, a world of speculation and misperception about arch segment that is actually independent from tan & sin.
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2018, 02:03:24 PM »
While Phew can show real calculation & equation, Pi is still trapped in series
That is because pi is transcendental.
So far all your "real calculations and equations" haven't been for pi/phew.
Instead it has been for completely unrelated crap.

p.s. the value of sqrt 2 is also calculated via a series.

Now can you show a derivation for phew from the length of an arc segment or the circumference of a circle?
If not, all you have is pure garbage.

Meanwhile, there are several derivations of pi.

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2018, 09:58:34 PM »
"Meanwhile, there are several derivations of pi."

>> Whuz dat? You still resemble straight line reality with curved reality.
Thumbs up, Jack!  8)
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #103 on: September 19, 2018, 10:07:31 PM »
"Now can you show a derivation for phew from the length of an arc segment or the circumference of a circle?"

IF the exact phew meassurement been founded, why too bother to find more difficult method?

Just devide the angle with certain total angle, either 45° or 90° or 180° and then time it with the arch's total length for the arch.

Example:
Length for an arch of 30°=(30°:45°)*0.79289 = 0.52859.
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #104 on: September 19, 2018, 10:29:12 PM »
IF the exact phew meassurement been founded, why too bother to find more difficult method?
You haven't found it.
Instead you have found a completely unrelated number which you pretend is it.

I am not asking for you to provide a more difficult method, I am asking for you to show a derivation.

You have failed to provide a derivation for the value of C/D, where D is the diameter of a circle and C is its circumference.
Instead you have just pulled a number out of your ass and claimed it is that.

Now can you show a derivation for the value of C/D?
As part of this derivation you can show that this will be equal to something else and show what that something else is equal to (or bounded by), but you can't just start at that something else?

Now can you do that, or do you need me to do it for you?

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #105 on: September 20, 2018, 01:05:05 AM »
Go for it.
By the way, Phew is Mathgasm~
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2018, 01:36:20 PM »
Go for it.
Then let's go step by step. Rather than post one step each time I will post a few and see where you disagree.
1 - First we define π as C/D.
2 - This can equivalently be written as C=2πr, where r is the radius of the circle.
3 - Now this is great for a complete circle, but what about an arc of a circle which only subtends some angle x?
Well, the circle is similar all around, so the arc length for x will be a fraction of the circumference, with that fraction dependent upon the angle.
4 - But what to use for the angle? Some people might immediately jump to degrees, but lets pretend we have never heard of them and need to make up our own.
We might be tempted to use an angle of 1 to indicate a complete revolution, but lets try a more natural approach.
We know that the arc length should be dependent upon x as:
l=k*x*C=k*x*2*π*r; where k is some constant of proportionality depending upon the angle, which is the inverse of a revolution. For example, if x was in degrees, then k would be 1/360 degrees.
5 - But what value should we use for k? Well, as we want to look at arc lengths, why don't we focus on the latter part of the equation and try to get rid of as many constants as possible?
That means we have l=k*x*2*π*r. What if we let k=1/2π? Then we have:
l=x*2*π*r/2π=x*r.
That sure looks a lot nicer.
6 - So we define our unit of angle as a revolution having an angle of 2π, or equivalently, that a circular arc of length 1, with a radius of 1 (or of length y with a radius of y) will subtend an angle of 1.

All this sound reasonable so far?

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MicroBeta

  • 2490
  • +1/-0
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #107 on: September 20, 2018, 02:26:19 PM »
Arch segmen length for X° = sinX° + (tanX°)^2 * 0.29289^2
Anyone with even a basic knowledge of trig knows this is BS.
Everyone knows that as X approaches 90 degrees, tan increases without bounds (i.e. tends towards infinity).
Meanwhile the arc length is a mere pi/2.

How about this, provide a derivation for the value of "PHEW" from first principles.
Noting that by definition it is nothing more than the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.
Didn't he already try that...and failed miserably?

Mike
Since it costs 2.72¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 5.44¢.

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #108 on: September 21, 2018, 12:25:36 AM »
This food may be served on the streets, but in Middle East countries is served in five stars hotels.

It's kinda like the story of PHEW 8)


• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #109 on: September 21, 2018, 12:28:50 AM »
Arch segmen length for X° = sinX° + (tanX°)^2 * 0.29289^2
Anyone with even a basic knowledge of trig knows this is BS.
Everyone knows that as X approaches 90 degrees, tan increases without bounds (i.e. tends towards infinity).
Meanwhile the arc length is a mere pi/2.

How about this, provide a derivation for the value of "PHEW" from first principles.
Noting that by definition it is nothing more than the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.
Didn't he already try that...and failed miserably?

Mike

 8)
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #110 on: September 21, 2018, 12:29:26 AM »
Go for it.
Then let's go step by step. Rather than post one step each time I will post a few and see where you disagree.
1 - First we define π as C/D.
2 - This can equivalently be written as C=2πr, where r is the radius of the circle.
3 - Now this is great for a complete circle, but what about an arc of a circle which only subtends some angle x?
Well, the circle is similar all around, so the arc length for x will be a fraction of the circumference, with that fraction dependent upon the angle.
4 - But what to use for the angle? Some people might immediately jump to degrees, but lets pretend we have never heard of them and need to make up our own.
We might be tempted to use an angle of 1 to indicate a complete revolution, but lets try a more natural approach.
We know that the arc length should be dependent upon x as:
l=k*x*C=k*x*2*π*r; where k is some constant of proportionality depending upon the angle, which is the inverse of a revolution. For example, if x was in degrees, then k would be 1/360 degrees.
5 - But what value should we use for k? Well, as we want to look at arc lengths, why don't we focus on the latter part of the equation and try to get rid of as many constants as possible?
That means we have l=k*x*2*π*r. What if we let k=1/2π? Then we have:
l=x*2*π*r/2π=x*r.
That sure looks a lot nicer.
6 - So we define our unit of angle as a revolution having an angle of 2π, or equivalently, that a circular arc of length 1, with a radius of 1 (or of length y with a radius of y) will subtend an angle of 1.

All this sound reasonable so far?

 :o
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #111 on: September 21, 2018, 12:41:48 AM »
:o
I figured I would put it up in pieces rather than all at once.
Do you accept what I have written up so far?
If not, what part don't you accept?

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #112 on: September 21, 2018, 12:57:49 AM »
Pi is something to figure out with real meassurement, not series.
Pi is not a default taken for granted from the very beginning.
You didn't search pi, you only did algebra.
Try again, Jack  8)
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

MicroBeta

  • 2490
  • +1/-0
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #113 on: September 21, 2018, 01:42:28 AM »
Pi is something to figure out with real meassurement, not series.
Pi is not a default taken for granted from the very beginning.
You didn't search pi, you only did algebra.
Try again, Jack  8)
And that's why you continually fail to at finding the right value.  You don't understand why you can't just use measure the number. 

Something everyone else figured out millennia ago.  Your lack of understanding is the reason can't get your silly number to work in the real world, the reason why you had to back peddle and change posts because you realized too late that it was wrong, the reason each of these threads are all utter failures, etc....

Mike
Since it costs 2.72¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 5.44¢.

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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #114 on: September 21, 2018, 02:35:04 AM »
Pi is something to figure out with real meassurement, not series.
No it isn't.
It is a mathematical constant.
This is best to calculate by pure math.
Doing it with math allows easy determination of errors and allows known limits to be applied (i.e. an upper and lower bound with certainty).

Measurements will be prone to significant measurement error.
This will provide significant limitations on the accuracy of the value and thus significant limitations on the usefulness of it.

Pi is not a default taken for granted from the very beginning.
That is right, it is a constant, with a specific definition.

You didn't search pi, you only did algebra.
That is because we already know what it is, so all we need to do is the math to calculate it.
I am not trying to find pi or search for it. I am showing how to derive its value.

Also note that that is part of what you do.
All you have done is made numbers up by just pulling them from nowhere and asserting they are correct or doing math involving sqrt(2).
No where have you even attempted to get anything even resembling pi.

Now, I will ask again:
Do you accept what I have written up so far?
If not, what part don't you accept?
Be explicit with exactly what part you disagree with and why. Note, that includes providing a number for exactly what point you disagree with.

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Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #115 on: September 21, 2018, 02:39:49 AM »
In repeated experiments, pi is a bit shorter, and it's hard to result 3.14159. The result is generally above that number. The experiments tend to point out phew's 3.17157. And it does so.
A 12 cm diameter CD is a good tool to knock pi out and introduce the power of Phew.~
Try again, Mike.
(Try again? Owwh... he didn't even present a calculation at all.)  8)
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2018, 02:51:08 AM »
When sin points out vertically to the arch segment's pointer edge, and tan is what the pointer faces at the coordinate X line,
according to school's math, how do you meassure the difference between tan and sin, or the tanX°-sinX°?
Exp.: the difference for 30° = tan30° - sin30°= 0.57735-0.5= 0.07735
Is there an equation for such length?

Let me check whether it is similar to my finding about it. (I'll post after the reply).
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

Danang

  • 5990
  • +28/-16
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2018, 02:56:20 AM »
Now I felt bad to say repeatedly "try again, Jack".
Even though he still needs to try again till really finding the true Pi, which is named "Phew"~
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2018, 03:48:17 AM »
In repeated experiments, pi is a bit shorter
No it isn't.

A 12 cm diameter CD is a good tool to knock pi out and introduce the power of Phew.~
No it isn't. Again, there is far too much error in the measurement to be able to rule out pi.

Now I felt bad to say repeatedly "try again, Jack".
Is that because your repeated dishonesty is finally getting to you?
I'm not the one that has repeatedly failed, you are. You are the one that needs to try again, not me.

Now, can you actually answer the question?
WHAT POINT DO YOU THINK IS WRONG?
If you don't disagree with any of the points raised, then we continue.

?

frenat

  • 3752
  • +0/-2
Re: Tangent & C Relation: 3.14159 vs Phew's 3.17157
« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2018, 05:07:15 AM »
Pi is something to figure out with real meassurement, not series.
Pi is not a default taken for granted from the very beginning.
You didn't search pi, you only did algebra.
Try again, Jack  8)
and you prove AGAIN that you don't understand pi. At least your delusions are entertaining.