Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition

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Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« on: August 30, 2018, 01:40:14 AM »
Hey all.

I am trying to think of an experiment that will help prove / disprove flat earth.

So of course I first went to the Ship "falling" over the horizon experiment but added a little something.
Let me know if you can add more so it will be better

So the claim I saw about the ship is that you see less and less of it because of "law of perspective" that distorts the image of the ship.
and If you use a telescope then it will pop into normal view again.

I thought of doing the following:

Use a ship and a helicopter (the ship need to be larger than the helicopter)so that the ship is on the same level with the helicopter.
Position yourself on the shore so that the Ship now hide the helicopter from view.

https://ibb.co/eMysJU

OR

https://ibb.co/g1cSJU

?

Now the ship need to start sailing away from you.
At some point the ship will go far enough that it starts "falling" from view.

The thing is , the helicopter must remain in "stand still" mode all that time.
if the ship is just getting smaller because of the "law of perspective" there is no way you will be able to see the Helicopter after it!
it is still in the same line of the ship.
but if the earth is a globe, the ship will indeed go down the curvature and the helicopter will come into sight.
 
Globe:
https://ibb.co/np2cJU

Vs.
Flat earth:
https://ibb.co/hyEPyU

What do you think?
Did I assume something wrong?

Actually it will even begin being clear much before.
If the flat earth is true the helicopter will have to be at sea level so that the ship will hide it from view. if it will be higher in the air the viewer should see it.
If the earth is round, it can even be higher in the air and still the ship will hide it from view.

P.S. I know that in the globe model, the curvature is much less steep. but I had to make the picture small enough and still pass my point.
Will any sight enhancement be needed for this? or the helicopter will be visible to the "naked eye" unless the ship was there?
Maybe a drone can be used with an altitude measuring gear on it to assure it will stay in place?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 01:54:42 AM by mmab »

*

napoleon

  • 913
  • The Earth is not round, nor flat. It is a Donut...
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 02:07:55 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

Never argue with an idiot...
First they will drag you down to their own level,
and then they beat you by experience...

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 02:39:46 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

P.S. my experiment is cooler :P
You can actually see the result with your eyes.
Your is more simple, but it will require assumptions about the star that I am sure at least one FE will give you an alternative answer on.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 02:49:06 AM by mmab »

*

napoleon

  • 913
  • The Earth is not round, nor flat. It is a Donut...
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 02:48:22 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

They must agree on that...because it is mere an observation. no one ever can claim that the polar star shifts through the sky during the night months or year.

It does shifts slightly, but this cycle takes many many years....you will not observe it within one year.
So, if no one ever observed it shifts through the sky, then they have to agree that the polar star is always at the same point...right?

every other star rotates around the polar star...so the polar star must be in the center or very very near to the center...which is straight above the north pole...right?
Never argue with an idiot...
First they will drag you down to their own level,
and then they beat you by experience...

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 02:59:13 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

They must agree on that...because it is mere an observation. no one ever can claim that the polar star shifts through the sky during the night months or year.

It does shifts slightly, but this cycle takes many many years....you will not observe it within one year.
So, if no one ever observed it shifts through the sky, then they have to agree that the polar star is always at the same point...right?

every other star rotates around the polar star...so the polar star must be in the center or very very near to the center...which is straight above the north pole...right?

I really can't comment on FEers.
I am just here out of interest on what they have to say and gain scientific knowledge / interest.
So for example I was trying to find the experiment that will be agreed upon both sides beforehand.
I am sure you will get a comment at some point (even better open a new thread and wait for a response on that)

*

napoleon

  • 913
  • The Earth is not round, nor flat. It is a Donut...
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 03:17:23 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

They must agree on that...because it is mere an observation. no one ever can claim that the polar star shifts through the sky during the night months or year.

It does shifts slightly, but this cycle takes many many years....you will not observe it within one year.
So, if no one ever observed it shifts through the sky, then they have to agree that the polar star is always at the same point...right?

every other star rotates around the polar star...so the polar star must be in the center or very very near to the center...which is straight above the north pole...right?

I really can't comment on FEers.
I am just here out of interest on what they have to say and gain scientific knowledge / interest.
So for example I was trying to find the experiment that will be agreed upon both sides beforehand.
I am sure you will get a comment at some point (even better open a new thread and wait for a response on that)

No, I really suggested this multiple times...no FE-er dares to give an explanation on this ever.
It is such an easy experiment that everyone can do it, anytime and anywhere. you do not even have to travel for this purpose.
if you are on holiday somewhere, or you are travelling for work...just go find the polar star and measure its angle.
it only requires taking your sextant with you. you can buy it on amazone for less than 100 dollars.
if you do not have a sextant, you can use your fist. stretch out your arm in front of you and count the amount of fists between horizon and polar star. one fist should be around 10 degrees.
you will see for round earth, it makes perfectly sense...for flat earth however, the observations do not match calculation.

no FE-er ever agreed, nor disagreed with this experiment...because they know there is no FE-explanation for it...it just gets ignored.
Never argue with an idiot...
First they will drag you down to their own level,
and then they beat you by experience...

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 03:21:55 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

They must agree on that...because it is mere an observation. no one ever can claim that the polar star shifts through the sky during the night months or year.

It does shifts slightly, but this cycle takes many many years....you will not observe it within one year.
So, if no one ever observed it shifts through the sky, then they have to agree that the polar star is always at the same point...right?

every other star rotates around the polar star...so the polar star must be in the center or very very near to the center...which is straight above the north pole...right?

I really can't comment on FEers.
I am just here out of interest on what they have to say and gain scientific knowledge / interest.
So for example I was trying to find the experiment that will be agreed upon both sides beforehand.
I am sure you will get a comment at some point (even better open a new thread and wait for a response on that)

No, I really suggested this multiple times...no FE-er dares to give an explanation on this ever.
It is such an easy experiment that everyone can do it, anytime and anywhere. you do not even have to travel for this purpose.
if you are on holiday somewhere, or you are travelling for work...just go find the polar star and measure its angle.
it only requires taking your sextant with you. you can buy it on amazone for less than 100 dollars.
if you do not have a sextant, you can use your fist. stretch out your arm in front of you and count the amount of fists between horizon and polar star. one fist should be around 10 degrees.
you will see for round earth, it makes perfectly sense...for flat earth however, the observations do not match calculation.

no FE-er ever agreed, nor disagreed with this experiment...because they know there is no FE-explanation for it...it just gets ignored.

Well... I will wait a day or two before agreeing with you they can't give any solution to this.
So far they commented on every post I posted here.
I want to be come a believer (hence the name mmab = make me a believer)
But for that they will have to give answers to those basic questions and need to help me understand this new model.
If I, a non-science average guy can see this is not answered they will not have a lot of luck with the rest of the people.

*

napoleon

  • 913
  • The Earth is not round, nor flat. It is a Donut...
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 03:52:39 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

They must agree on that...because it is mere an observation. no one ever can claim that the polar star shifts through the sky during the night months or year.

It does shifts slightly, but this cycle takes many many years....you will not observe it within one year.
So, if no one ever observed it shifts through the sky, then they have to agree that the polar star is always at the same point...right?

every other star rotates around the polar star...so the polar star must be in the center or very very near to the center...which is straight above the north pole...right?

I really can't comment on FEers.
I am just here out of interest on what they have to say and gain scientific knowledge / interest.
So for example I was trying to find the experiment that will be agreed upon both sides beforehand.
I am sure you will get a comment at some point (even better open a new thread and wait for a response on that)

No, I really suggested this multiple times...no FE-er dares to give an explanation on this ever.
It is such an easy experiment that everyone can do it, anytime and anywhere. you do not even have to travel for this purpose.
if you are on holiday somewhere, or you are travelling for work...just go find the polar star and measure its angle.
it only requires taking your sextant with you. you can buy it on amazone for less than 100 dollars.
if you do not have a sextant, you can use your fist. stretch out your arm in front of you and count the amount of fists between horizon and polar star. one fist should be around 10 degrees.
you will see for round earth, it makes perfectly sense...for flat earth however, the observations do not match calculation.

no FE-er ever agreed, nor disagreed with this experiment...because they know there is no FE-explanation for it...it just gets ignored.

Well... I will wait a day or two before agreeing with you they can't give any solution to this.
So far they commented on every post I posted here.
I want to be come a believer (hence the name mmab = make me a believer)
But for that they will have to give answers to those basic questions and need to help me understand this new model.
If I, a non-science average guy can see this is not answered they will not have a lot of luck with the rest of the people.

Or, let us do it differently.
let every self respecting FE-er measure the angle of the polar star at the location where they are and post it here together with the name of the city they are in or ar close to.

I will do the calculations and post it here...that way no one has to travel...we just share our observations...

There are so many possibilities here to do this experiment...yet no one dares to join.
a clear challenge for everyone...if you want to know the truth, then join this experiment.
Never argue with an idiot...
First they will drag you down to their own level,
and then they beat you by experience...

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 04:00:30 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

They must agree on that...because it is mere an observation. no one ever can claim that the polar star shifts through the sky during the night months or year.

It does shifts slightly, but this cycle takes many many years....you will not observe it within one year.
So, if no one ever observed it shifts through the sky, then they have to agree that the polar star is always at the same point...right?

every other star rotates around the polar star...so the polar star must be in the center or very very near to the center...which is straight above the north pole...right?

I really can't comment on FEers.
I am just here out of interest on what they have to say and gain scientific knowledge / interest.
So for example I was trying to find the experiment that will be agreed upon both sides beforehand.
I am sure you will get a comment at some point (even better open a new thread and wait for a response on that)

No, I really suggested this multiple times...no FE-er dares to give an explanation on this ever.
It is such an easy experiment that everyone can do it, anytime and anywhere. you do not even have to travel for this purpose.
if you are on holiday somewhere, or you are travelling for work...just go find the polar star and measure its angle.
it only requires taking your sextant with you. you can buy it on amazone for less than 100 dollars.
if you do not have a sextant, you can use your fist. stretch out your arm in front of you and count the amount of fists between horizon and polar star. one fist should be around 10 degrees.
you will see for round earth, it makes perfectly sense...for flat earth however, the observations do not match calculation.

no FE-er ever agreed, nor disagreed with this experiment...because they know there is no FE-explanation for it...it just gets ignored.

Well... I will wait a day or two before agreeing with you they can't give any solution to this.
So far they commented on every post I posted here.
I want to be come a believer (hence the name mmab = make me a believer)
But for that they will have to give answers to those basic questions and need to help me understand this new model.
If I, a non-science average guy can see this is not answered they will not have a lot of luck with the rest of the people.

Or, let us do it differently.
let every self respecting FE-er measure the angle of the polar star at the location where they are and post it here together with the name of the city they are in or ar close to.

I will do the calculations and post it here...that way no one has to travel...we just share our observations...

There are so many possibilities here to do this experiment...yet no one dares to join.
a clear challenge for everyone...if you want to know the truth, then join this experiment.

Sounds good, but will they trust your calculations?
Also, how do you know someone will not "fake" or give a wrong data?

*

napoleon

  • 913
  • The Earth is not round, nor flat. It is a Donut...
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 04:08:48 AM »
a better and easier suggestion:

find the polar star...the polar star is always at the same point in the sky.

Measure the angle of the polar star with the horizon and determine the coordinates of your position (position 1)
travel 1000km south, measure the angle again and detrmine the coordinates (position 2)

from the results of position 1 and 2, the angle of the polar star on position 3 (1000km south of position 2) can be easily calculated for a flat earth.

travel to position 3 and check your results.

If the earth is flat, then the calculation will match perfectly with reality.

if it does not match, the earth is not flat.

now compare the measured angle with the latitude part of our coordinates.

If the earth is round, the angle of the polar star should match with the latitude part of the coordinate: 0 degrees on the equator, 90 degrees on the north pole, and 45 degrees at 45 degrees north.

I am sure it was done before and showed the results in favor of round earth.
What is the FE explanation here?

I don't know what they say about stars in general. are you sure they agree that the polar star is always at the same point in the sky?

They must agree on that...because it is mere an observation. no one ever can claim that the polar star shifts through the sky during the night months or year.

It does shifts slightly, but this cycle takes many many years....you will not observe it within one year.
So, if no one ever observed it shifts through the sky, then they have to agree that the polar star is always at the same point...right?

every other star rotates around the polar star...so the polar star must be in the center or very very near to the center...which is straight above the north pole...right?

I really can't comment on FEers.
I am just here out of interest on what they have to say and gain scientific knowledge / interest.
So for example I was trying to find the experiment that will be agreed upon both sides beforehand.
I am sure you will get a comment at some point (even better open a new thread and wait for a response on that)

No, I really suggested this multiple times...no FE-er dares to give an explanation on this ever.
It is such an easy experiment that everyone can do it, anytime and anywhere. you do not even have to travel for this purpose.
if you are on holiday somewhere, or you are travelling for work...just go find the polar star and measure its angle.
it only requires taking your sextant with you. you can buy it on amazone for less than 100 dollars.
if you do not have a sextant, you can use your fist. stretch out your arm in front of you and count the amount of fists between horizon and polar star. one fist should be around 10 degrees.
you will see for round earth, it makes perfectly sense...for flat earth however, the observations do not match calculation.

no FE-er ever agreed, nor disagreed with this experiment...because they know there is no FE-explanation for it...it just gets ignored.

Well... I will wait a day or two before agreeing with you they can't give any solution to this.
So far they commented on every post I posted here.
I want to be come a believer (hence the name mmab = make me a believer)
But for that they will have to give answers to those basic questions and need to help me understand this new model.
If I, a non-science average guy can see this is not answered they will not have a lot of luck with the rest of the people.

Or, let us do it differently.
let every self respecting FE-er measure the angle of the polar star at the location where they are and post it here together with the name of the city they are in or ar close to.

I will do the calculations and post it here...that way no one has to travel...we just share our observations...

There are so many possibilities here to do this experiment...yet no one dares to join.
a clear challenge for everyone...if you want to know the truth, then join this experiment.

Sounds good, but will they trust your calculations?
Also, how do you know someone will not "fake" or give a wrong data?
easy
You cannot argue against a simple calculation...it is either right or wrong...I am not using complicated formulae...just the basic stuff everyone learned at school.
about the faking part: the person who is lying knows that he / she is lying...I can easily pick the fake ones out just by googling the coordinates of the city...if the given angle does not match the latitude of the city, then the given info is fake...everyone can check that for themselves.
Never argue with an idiot...
First they will drag you down to their own level,
and then they beat you by experience...

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2018, 04:12:19 AM »

easy
You cannot argue against a simple calculation...it is either right or wrong...I am not using complicated formulae...just the basic stuff everyone learned at school.
about the faking part: the person who is lying knows that he / she is lying...I can easily pick the fake ones out just by googling the coordinates of the city...if the given angle does not match the latitude of the city, then the given info is fake...everyone can check that for themselves.
[/quote]

Well, let us wait for people to respond.

Waiting for both your experiment comments and the one I suggested as well :)

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2018, 08:12:30 AM »
I can easily pick the fake ones out just by googling the coordinates of the city...if the given angle does not match the latitude of the city, then the given info is fake.

Excellent example of begging the question.

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 08:40:23 AM »
I can easily pick the fake ones out just by googling the coordinates of the city...if the given angle does not match the latitude of the city, then the given info is fake.

Excellent example of begging the question.

I didn't like that suggestion that much either.
but what do you say of my original post? the ship and the helicopter.
Will that work to prove / disprove a flat earth?

*

Danang

  • 5583
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 10:24:07 AM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.
• South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 11:08:56 AM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.

But then the helicopter behind the ship will also be hidden behind the waves.
I am saying that if you can see the helicopter the ship is actually going lower. agree?

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 11:49:16 AM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.

Some questions  for flat earthers :
If this is a question of the curvature of the earth in relation to the "ship" and its appearance as it comes in or out of view as is comes over or passes over the horizon.......Have you ever been to sea and observed this by yourself ?
If you have never been to sea , have you ever talked to anyone about this who has ever been to sea ?
This observation is best done in the middle of the ocean on a clear, calm day....Especially on a clear day when there are none or very small waves.
I will refrain from any comments about the curvatute of the earth and let you find out the truth for yourself.
It is really very simple !
Cheers ! And best wishes !

P.S. You don't have to go to sea do this. You can do this just as well by looking out to sea from the shore or the beach.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 12:09:55 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2018, 11:57:43 AM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.

Some questions  for flat earthers :
If this is a question of the curvature of the earth in relation to the "ship" and its appearance as it comes in or out of view as is comes over or passes over the horizon.......Have you ever been to sea and observed this by yourself ?
If you have never been to sea , have you ever talked to anyone about this who has ever been to sea ?

I don't think they will trust anyone (he might be goverment issued to keep the secret)
Regarding seeing the ship emerge they will think the waves hid it before and now they are gone, or the "law of perspective" taking place so when something is far away it looks smaller.
but please let them answer my question.
Can the experiment I suggested prove / disprove the flat earth theory or not?

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2018, 01:09:35 PM »
Can the experiment I suggested prove / disprove the flat earth theory or not?
No.

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2018, 01:18:07 PM »
Can the experiment I suggested prove / disprove the flat earth theory or not?
No.

What is the reason the answer is no?

*

JackBlack

  • 21558
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2018, 02:08:17 PM »
What is the FE explanation here?
The closest I have seen to an "explanation" is the same as for the sun.
Either magic perspective or magic bendy light.

*

JackBlack

  • 21558
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2018, 02:12:46 PM »
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.
If that was the case you would see those waves beyond the ship.
You would also see it gradually start disappearing as it sails away, instead of waiting until the horizon.
Why do the waves magically get bigger then?

It would also mean the ship would be obscured on the open ocean and all they would see is massive waves surrounding the ship.

None of that matches reality.

P.S. the ocean is typically much calmer than near the shore.

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2018, 02:38:46 PM »
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.
If that was the case you would see those waves beyond the ship.
You would also see it gradually start disappearing as it sails away, instead of waiting until the horizon.
Why do the waves magically get bigger then?

It would also mean the ship would be obscured on the open ocean and all they would see is massive waves surrounding the ship.

None of that matches reality.

P.S. the ocean is typically much calmer than near the shore.

I would still like to hear the FE folk explain to me if my experiment is good or not.
and if not , what is the problem with it?

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2018, 02:59:55 PM »
Can the experiment I suggested prove / disprove the flat earth theory or not?
No.

What is the reason the answer is no?

1. Your "experiment" assumes light always travels in straight lines.
2. Your "experiment" is valid over a minuscule fraction of the earth's surface, and in one direction only.
3. Reading topics on this web site is sufficient to show considerable disagreement about what is seen at distance, including on the ocean.
4. Reading topics on this web site is sufficient to show considerable disagreement about what form the flat earth takes.
5. A single experiment is rarely justification to "prove" a physical phenomenon.

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2018, 03:35:08 PM »
Can the experiment I suggested prove / disprove the flat earth theory or not?
No.

What is the reason the answer is no?

1. Your "experiment" assumes light always travels in straight lines.
2. Your "experiment" is valid over a minuscule fraction of the earth's surface, and in one direction only.
3. Reading topics on this web site is sufficient to show considerable disagreement about what is seen at distance, including on the ocean.
4. Reading topics on this web site is sufficient to show considerable disagreement about what form the flat earth takes.
5. A single experiment is rarely justification to "prove" a physical phenomenon.

What does it have to do with light moving in straight lines? if someone is in front of another thing it will block you view of it. unless you suggest somehow the light will bounce in one direction then another with an ending result of you able to see an object behind another one and not the object nearer to you (so in my example you can see the helicopter but not the ship. will it be seen in a different locations? both of them in sight?)
I will be very happy to see something like this happening. do you have any experiment where something like that occurs?

it is valid everywhere if the curvuture exist as round earthes think. and will be valid anyways on sea as the water always find level and if the earth is flat all the way.
one direction is for the line of sight, but you can repeat multiple times. it should always give the same result on a flat earth (unless you say there are many places where it isn't flat, meaning you need an adjusted theory for a "nearly" flat earth.

it doesn't matter what is seen at distance. the fact that one object will hide from view the one far from it is always true (can you see what is right behine a wall or a building? even if they are very far away?)

I thought that flat earth means the earth is.... well... flat. Can you please show me what is the form you are talking about?

single sure. maybe there was a mistake of some sort. do it multiple times at multiple places. now will it hold?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 03:37:16 PM by mmab »

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2018, 03:38:34 PM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.

You are aware that this experiment has been done over large lakes countless numbers of times, right?  The earth is round.

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2018, 03:48:33 PM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.

You are aware that this experiment has been done over large lakes countless numbers of times, right?  The earth is round.

I know it was done with ships. but nothing behind them.
So there were alternative explanations like "law of perspective" and waves obscuring the ship and maybe others.
I thought no one will argue against one thing hiding another that is in front of it... but there you have it.

I find this all very interesting but can't seem to get an orgnized knowledge.


Tomorrow I will post and ask for an experiment to prove the FE. until then need to get some sleep.

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2018, 03:56:44 PM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.

Some questions  for flat earthers :
If this is a question of the curvature of the earth in relation to the "ship" and its appearance as it comes in or out of view as is comes over or passes over the horizon.......Have you ever been to sea and observed this by yourself ?
If you have never been to sea , have you ever talked to anyone about this who has ever been to sea ?

I don't think they will trust anyone (he might be goverment issued to keep the secret)
Regarding seeing the ship emerge they will think the waves hid it before and now they are gone, or the "law of perspective" taking place so when something is far away it looks smaller.
but please let them answer my question.
Can the experiment I suggested prove / disprove the flat earth theory or not?


mmab, You are first in line .
FE's - Please answer mmab first.
Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 03:59:55 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2018, 04:12:27 PM »
Can the experiment I suggested prove / disprove the flat earth theory or not?
No.

What is the reason the answer is no?

1. Your "experiment" assumes light always travels in straight lines.
2. Your "experiment" is valid over a minuscule fraction of the earth's surface, and in one direction only.
3. Reading topics on this web site is sufficient to show considerable disagreement about what is seen at distance, including on the ocean.
4. Reading topics on this web site is sufficient to show considerable disagreement about what form the flat earth takes.
5. A single experiment is rarely justification to "prove" a physical phenomenon.

What does it have to do with light moving in straight lines? if someone is in front of another thing it will block you view of it. unless you suggest somehow the light will bounce in one direction then another with an ending result of you able to see an object behind another one and not the object nearer to you (so in my example you can see the helicopter but not the ship. will it be seen in a different locations? both of them in sight?)
I will be very happy to see something like this happening. do you have any experiment where something like that occurs?

Ever see a mirage?


it is valid everywhere if the curvuture exist as round earthes think. and will be valid anyways on sea as the water always find level and if the earth is flat all the way.
one direction is for the line of sight, but you can repeat multiple times. it should always give the same result on a flat earth (unless you say there are many places where it isn't flat, meaning you need an adjusted theory for a "nearly" flat earth.


So you're arguing that proving an arc over a tiny distance proves a full circle? Or now you're moving the goalposts by changing the experiment from one instance to ten? A hundred? A thousand? A hundred thousand? A million?

it doesn't matter what is seen at distance. the fact that one object will hide from view the one far from it is always true (can you see what is right behine a wall or a building? even if they are very far away?)

I'd suggest you read the numerous topics here about how various people interpret what is seen at distance.

I thought that flat earth means the earth is.... well... flat. Can you please show me what is the form you are talking about?

I don't think you'll find a single poster here who thinks the earth is so flat uniformly that a ship could not be visually hidden by another portion of the earth.


single sure. maybe there was a mistake of some sort. do it multiple times at multiple places. now will it hold?

How many? Where? Under what conditions? You haven't given this a bit of thought. Ugh. You asked whether your "experiment" was sufficient to prove / disprove flat earth. I told you some reasons why it wasn't. Now comes the infinite moving goalposts to try to fix a bad proposition.

*

JackBlack

  • 21558
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2018, 05:21:20 PM »
What does it have to do with light moving in straight lines? if someone is in front of another thing it will block you view of it.
Lets assume light doesn't travel in straight lines and instead curves upwards, just for magic.
Now your helicopter is no longer at the same level as the boat.
The light from the helicopter starts off high going downwards and then curves upwards, going past the boat and then to your eyes.
As the boat sails away, it is no longer in the path.
Additionally, in order for the light to reach your eyes from the boat it would need to head down, and start curving up, passing through Earth in the process, making it appear to sink below the horizon.

Basically, this magic bendy light predicts the exact same results as a round Earth, it is just instead of Earth curving, light does.
Likewise, magic perspective does the same (and would require bendy light).

?

frenat

  • 3752
Re: Ship "Curvature" experiment with an addition
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2018, 07:05:30 PM »
When the object is far enough from the shore, and it looks 'sink', it's not because of 'curvature'.
It's because the sea waves around the object (between the object and the observer on the shore) are higher than at around the shore. Such high sea waves block the bottom part of the object.
As long as the observer is higher than the waves  then waves can only block up to their own height. What you propose would not work with observer in buildings that are a few stories high.

It's better doing such experiment on a large lake. There is no wave distortion in a lake.
You mean like this?


Globe earth wins again.