Jordan Peterson... thoughts?

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2020, 04:26:20 PM »
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

It is super weird. I kind of have a feeling that the marketing folks at Random House conjured up the whole scheme: "Let's have a 'town hall' regarding the publishing of a controversial author who we know some of our workers will get all avocado toast about and throw a fit and fall in it. We'll leak that event and subsequent turmoil to the press and we'll get the awareness about the book out there just like that...for free...on the backs of the woke..."

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #61 on: November 25, 2020, 05:09:28 PM »
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

It is super weird. I kind of have a feeling that the marketing folks at Random House conjured up the whole scheme: "Let's have a 'town hall' regarding the publishing of a controversial author who we know some of our workers will get all avocado toast about and throw a fit and fall in it. We'll leak that event and subsequent turmoil to the press and we'll get the awareness about the book out there just like that...for free...on the backs of the woke..."

Normally I would agree, but this is like the fourth book the crybullies have tried to ban this year. The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2020, 05:23:03 PM »
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

It is super weird. I kind of have a feeling that the marketing folks at Random House conjured up the whole scheme: "Let's have a 'town hall' regarding the publishing of a controversial author who we know some of our workers will get all avocado toast about and throw a fit and fall in it. We'll leak that event and subsequent turmoil to the press and we'll get the awareness about the book out there just like that...for free...on the backs of the woke..."

Normally I would agree, but this is like the fourth book the crybullies have tried to ban this year. The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).

I guess it's always complicated and even case by case. But it's like when a controversial speaker has an engagement at a University. The crybullies try to stop it as it is giving a voice, a platform to the individual. I'm all for protesting against said individuals and their views if that's your thing, but I'm against trying to bully the administration to stop the voice from being heard. It's a fine line.
In the case here, if you're an employee against the author, you can make your stance known, even quit if so inclined. But if the pressure is meant to stop the publishing, suppress the speech, I have a hard time with that. Again, maybe it's a case by case thing.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #63 on: November 25, 2020, 05:39:27 PM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2020, 02:26:00 AM »
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

What you posted was people working at Penguin not wanting to publish the book. Not wanting to publish and banning a book is very, very different. It's such a tired tactic at this point for them to pretend to be persecuted because people don't want to publish them or whatever.

This happens all the time with controversial authors in publishing houses. It's just that now it is publicized because playing victim is JP's whole shtick, and the publisher saw dollar signs. The town hall thing is so transparent lol
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 03:54:56 AM by Pezevenk »
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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2020, 02:28:43 AM »
That book cover is... very weird. So many strange decisions.
Graphic design is my passion.
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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2020, 04:52:00 AM »
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2020, 05:22:42 AM »
Yeah, like, banning something used to mean something being made illegal to sell or publish or arresting people for reading it/owning it/whatever, but now apparently it means someone saying "I don't want the company I work for to print this trash" and then their company doing a shitty publicity stunt by setting up a bullshit "town hall" and taking advantage of them to promote said trash.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 05:25:12 AM by Pezevenk »
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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2020, 05:31:38 AM »
That book cover is... very weird. So many strange decisions.

Graphic design is my passion.

Graphic design was my entire career.
I don't care what you think.

You just see shit.

I tell you how to feel.     




Show some pro art . . . . . . .










take you're  time  .  .  .  .












.
















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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2020, 05:35:09 AM »
That book cover is... very weird. So many strange decisions.

Graphic design is my passion.

Graphic design was my entire career.
I don't care what you think.

You just see shit.

I tell you how to feel.     




Show some pro art . . . . . . .










take you're  time  .  .  .  .












.

Graphic design is my passion is a common phrase to mock terrible graphic design by people who don't know what they're doing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/graphic-design-is-my-passion
https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-if-someone-says-graphic-design-is-my-passion
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 05:36:53 AM by Pezevenk »
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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2020, 06:23:07 AM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.


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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2020, 06:54:30 AM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2020, 07:18:44 AM »
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.

That is not the point. I didn't say his book was never published, only that the tactics worked. Hachette declined to publish his book after employees protested.

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2020, 07:41:17 AM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2020, 07:48:41 AM »
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.

That is not the point. I didn't say his book was never published, only that the tactics worked. Hachette declined to publish his book after employees protested.
You said it worked in the context of "banning" books:

Quote
Normally I would agree, but this is like the fourth book the crybullies have tried to ban this year. The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir

In what sense did they work?  The book was published and lots of extra publicity was generated.   The book wasn't banned.

I don't agree with the employees in either case  - it's just another dumb self help book, who gives a shit?  However they are just exercising their free speech, right to protest etc.  What do you want to do?  Ban them?
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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2020, 07:56:32 AM »
I feel like you are pretending not to understand what I posted. Perhaps I could have been more precise, but this is a conversation and I'm just a regular person.

I don't want to ban anyone. I don't want corporate censorship to be based on whatever is considered woke at the moment. The Woody Allens of the world can always find another publisher, but most people aren't that lucky.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2020, 08:06:03 AM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2020, 08:38:30 AM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Quite right.  I phrased that badly.  I do have the right to demand to be published and they have the right to tell me to fuck off.

Quote
Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.

So does that mean they have to let anyone speak who wants to?  I could just rock up at a university and expect to address a bunch of students on my favorite 80s sci-fi TV shows?  And if they donít let me, I can whinge that Iím being no platformed?



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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2020, 08:45:30 AM »
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.

That is not the point. I didn't say his book was never published, only that the tactics worked. Hachette declined to publish his book after employees protested.
OK but why does that matter? Shouldn't employees of a publishing house be entitled to have a say in what gets published? Their bosses already do. It's not like anyone can just walk up to a publisher and give them something to publish and then boom, they do it. Allen is a sex creep, I understand someone not wanting to publish his stuff.

"Handing over the censorship to the companies" is what already happens by default.
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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2020, 08:50:48 AM »
I feel like you are pretending not to understand what I posted. Perhaps I could have been more precise, but this is a conversation and I'm just a regular person.
Fair enough, it's just you are using the word "ban" which has has a particular meaning and connotations, as in:

"officially or legally prohibit (something)." 

That is clearly not happening - nobody is banning these books and I doubt anyone even called for an actual ban.

Quote
The Woody Allens of the world can always find another publisher, but most people aren't that lucky.
Are you kidding?  It's literally easier to publish your work than any time in human history. You can just self publish to Amazon eBooks for free.  Or straight to your own website that you can set up for a few dollars.    You don't even need a publisher to publish any more.

In the past, unless you were already famous (like Woody Allen), or got lucky, the chances are you'd never get your work published and nobody would ever read it.  Traditional publishing is an expensive and marginal business and publishers were very risk averse - most books never made any money.  Now anybody can knock something out and have it available all over the world in minutes.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2020, 08:52:01 AM »
I feel like you are pretending not to understand what I posted. Perhaps I could have been more precise, but this is a conversation and I'm just a regular person.

I don't want to ban anyone. I don't want corporate censorship to be based on whatever is considered woke at the moment. The Woody Allens of the world can always find another publisher, but most people aren't that lucky.
Most people aren't lucky enough to get any publisher whatsoever anyways lol, do you think anyone can just go to Hachette and say "pls publish my stuff"? If anything it is way easier now to publish something. Heck, you can even just dump it on the Internet as a last resort.

It's like people who desperately want to be persecuted somehow only now discovered that publishers can chose what they publish and they won't just publish whatever you give them, and they may chose not to for millions of reasons. It's such a tired trope at this point, idk how some people still fall for it.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2020, 11:47:28 AM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Quite right.  I phrased that badly.  I do have the right to demand to be published and they have the right to tell me to fuck off.

Quote
Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.

So does that mean they have to let anyone speak who wants to?  I could just rock up at a university and expect to address a bunch of students on my favorite 80s sci-fi TV shows?  And if they donít let me, I can whinge that Iím being no platformed?

No, speakers are invited by students and student groups, usually. So, if the sci-fi nerd society invited you to talk about your favorite 80s sci-fi tv shows, then you would definitely have the right to speak on campus. Now, if the fantasy nerd society protested against you, you'd still have the right to speak, unless the fantasy nerds threaten violence and the university feels it can't keep you safe. That's the kind of no-platforming people generally "whinge" about. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2020, 12:23:05 PM »
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Quite right.  I phrased that badly.  I do have the right to demand to be published and they have the right to tell me to fuck off.

Quote
Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.

So does that mean they have to let anyone speak who wants to?  I could just rock up at a university and expect to address a bunch of students on my favorite 80s sci-fi TV shows?  And if they donít let me, I can whinge that Iím being no platformed?

No, speakers are invited by students and student groups, usually. So, if the sci-fi nerd society invited you to talk about your favorite 80s sci-fi tv shows, then you would definitely have the right to speak on campus. Now, if the fantasy nerd society protested against you, you'd still have the right to speak, unless the fantasy nerds threaten violence and the university feels it can't keep you safe. That's the kind of no-platforming people generally "whinge" about.

Did the Penguin employees threaten violence? 

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2020, 12:28:25 PM »
No, they just cried.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #84 on: November 26, 2020, 01:56:43 PM »
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #85 on: November 26, 2020, 02:32:11 PM »

No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Actually, Every "school" which accepts money from taxpayers is obligated to allow free speech.



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markjo

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #86 on: November 26, 2020, 02:53:22 PM »
Not all speech is free speech,
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #87 on: November 26, 2020, 03:12:10 PM »

No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Actually, Every "school" which accepts money from taxpayers is obligated to allow free speech.
Really? Where does it say that? Do you think just anyone can go and speak in a university? Why is everyone acting like they JUST now figured out you can't speak whenever and wherever you want? Why is it even such a big issue that someone can't be invited speak in any particular university? Can't they live without the prestige? Like, this is not universities kicking out students or professors for their views, we're talking about guests who were disinvited because students didn't want them around. Like, they're just guests. They can just speak wherever. All speaking at a university would achieve for them is the prestige that saying "I was invited to speak at a university" carries with it, and they know it, and that's why they do it, and that's why others don't want them to have it if they don't like them. It's not the end of the world for anyone. Not being platformed here and there happens to everyone all the time, and for much more significant issues than this shit, but it's only a very particular group of people that constantly make a big stink about it, evidently even if they get their way after all ("coincidentally" these same people also seem to have a massive spotlight in their faces and a thousand other places where they can and do find platforms). The persecution complex has no end.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #88 on: November 26, 2020, 03:27:51 PM »
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
« Reply #89 on: November 26, 2020, 03:33:23 PM »
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)