The sun is under the clouds?

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The sun is under the clouds?
« on: August 07, 2018, 12:52:10 AM »
According to FEers, sunrises and sunsets only look the way they are due to perspective. They say that the sun only moves further away and looks like it is dipping below the horizon. So, if that is true the sun would always be above the clouds and never go below them. However, the sun does dip below the clouds during sunrises and sunsets. There have been many observations of the sunlight shining UNDERNEATH the clouds.



The only FE explanation I heard about this so far, is that it's just refraction, however, there are no further explanations about how or why it occurs in different weather conditions. Even if it were refraction, how does the sunlight shine under clouds when there is no water in sight. How does the sunlight viewed from ground level look consistent when different weather conditions are affecting the refraction in different areas?

Even if sunlight was just refracted back up to the clouds that doesn't explain why we see the sun literally appearing like it's under the clouds. If the sun just moves further away and the sun would look smaller then appear to go under the clouds due to perspective. However, around the 0:50 min mark the sun appears to at a huge size, too big to just appear to go under the clouds. Whether rising or setting, the sun always appears to come and go underneath the clouds.

This is easily explained in the heliocentric model but how does this on a flat earth?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 08:19:51 PM by ThatsInteresting »
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 10:51:14 PM »
...
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 08:38:39 PM »
Hmm, no responses yet?
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 08:16:10 AM »
Hmm, no responses yet?

There are probably at least 100 threads on this topic already. Please don't spam in the Debate section.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 03:41:35 PM »
Hmm, no responses yet?

There are probably at least 100 threads on this topic already. Please don't spam in the Debate section.
None of which have plausible explanations. All that is presented are guesses like "the sunlight must be reflecting off something".
This falls flat when one considers the upward slanting shadow at sunrise from Mt Rainier.
There are no suitable large bodies of water south-east of Mt Rainier and the rising sun can be seen on the horizon of some photos.

This only happens during the fall and winter when the sun rises farther to the south,
and is in the exact position where Mount Rainier blocks the first rays of morning light.
This particular image was shot on the morning of October 26th, 2011. Photo by Nick Lippert

That photo and many others like it can be found in, The Shadow of Mount Rainier by Kaushik.

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 07:22:52 PM »
There are probably at least 100 threads on this topic already. Please don't spam in the Debate section.

At least 100?! Wow, really?! Could you please share one of these "100"s?

Spam? I'm asking a question. I posted this about a week ago, at least 100 people saw it yet no one gave an answer.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 07:25:49 PM by ThatsInteresting »
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 09:49:30 PM »
There are probably at least 100 threads on this topic already. Please don't spam in the Debate section.

At least 100?! Wow, really?! Could you please share one of these "100"s?

Spam? I'm asking a question. I posted this about a week ago, at least 100 people saw it yet no one gave an answer.
How interesting! I searched for "sun under clouds" and found your thread and:
Hello,

Why is it sometimes possible to see sunlight under clouds? If the sun rotates above the clouds, or if it is directly in the firmament, how is this possible?

Have a nice day.
And
I'd like to believe in FE, but I can't quite comprehend what's going on in this video here. Isn't the sun supposed to be way above the earth at all times? How can a simple airplane fly higher than the sun? I don't think explaining it as perspective works here, because the sun appears to be below the horizon? Someone, please explain this to me!  :-\


Maybe someone can search better that I?

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 10:14:27 PM »
Hmm, how interesting indeed...
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

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Shifter

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 11:13:43 PM »
Hmm, no responses yet?

There are probably at least 100 threads on this topic already. Please don't spam in the Debate section.
None of which have plausible explanations. All that is presented are guesses like "the sunlight must be reflecting off something".
This falls flat when one considers the upward slanting shadow at sunrise from Mt Rainier.
There are no suitable large bodies of water south-east of Mt Rainier and the rising sun can be seen on the horizon of some photos.

This only happens during the fall and winter when the sun rises farther to the south,
and is in the exact position where Mount Rainier blocks the first rays of morning light.
This particular image was shot on the morning of October 26th, 2011. Photo by Nick Lippert

That photo and many others like it can be found in, The Shadow of Mount Rainier by Kaushik.

What a load of rubbish. The sun is at least 150,000,000km away. The clouds are what? Around 10 maybe? The sun is NEVER below the clouds. What a load of nonsense.

Even IF you accepted the flat earth argument that the sun is only a few thousand km away, it is still valid to say that the sun never goes below the clouds


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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 11:26:16 PM »
What a load of rubbish. The sun is at least 150,000,000km away. The clouds are what? Around 10 maybe? The sun is NEVER below the clouds. What a load of nonsense.
So I take it you don't understand direction?
For the individual taking the photo, and the mountain, they have a relative frame of reference with a relative up and down. In this frame, the sun has a lower height than the clouds, even though it is 150 000 000 km away.

It is a round Earth which allows a sun below the clouds, because "below" is relative.
For a FE, the sun would need to be extremely close to Earth to get below the clouds.

For the common FE, the sun never goes below the clouds.
For a RE, the sun frequently goes below the clouds and below you, at least relative to you.

P.S. the sun is frequently less than 150 000 000 km away.

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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2018, 12:43:37 AM »
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
None of which have plausible explanations. All that is presented are guesses like "the sunlight must be reflecting off something".
This falls flat when one considers the upward slanting shadow at sunrise from Mt Rainier.
There are no suitable large bodies of water south-east of Mt Rainier and the rising sun can be seen on the horizon of some photos.

This only happens during the fall and winter when the sun rises farther to the south,
and is in the exact position where Mount Rainier blocks the first rays of morning light.
This particular image was shot on the morning of October 26th, 2011. Photo by Nick Lippert

That photo and many others like it can be found in, The Shadow of Mount Rainier by Kaushik.

What a load of rubbish. The sun is at least 150,000,000km away. The clouds are what? Around 10 maybe? The sun is NEVER below the clouds. What a load of nonsense.

Go and try your misleading deceptive tactics on someone else.

I never claimed that "The sun is below the clouds". Go back to primary school and learn how to read.

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Shifter

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2018, 12:49:16 AM »
I never claimed that "The sun is below the clouds". Go back to primary school and learn how to read.

Your rebuttal of SCG in defence of the OP said enough. I notice you didn't rebut his sun 'under the clouds' nonsense... Not sunlight. But the sun. What nonsense!


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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 01:00:55 AM »
I never claimed that "The sun is below the clouds". Go back to primary school and learn how to read.
;D ;D ;D Your rebuttal of SCG in defence of the OP said enough. ;D ;D ;D
Go troll someone who cares!

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Shifter

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 01:18:08 AM »
I never claimed that "The sun is below the clouds". Go back to primary school and learn how to read.
;D ;D ;D Your rebuttal of SCG in defence of the OP said enough. ;D ;D ;D
Go troll someone who cares!

I am Mr Ignorer of Mark Twain. I am  ;)


Rabinoz = Coronoz. Australias corona virus super spreader


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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2018, 03:17:09 AM »

At least 100?! Wow, really?! Could you please share one of these "100"s?


Wow, really?!  Search function too complicated for you?


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=68390.msg1838002#msg1838002
So do you any plausible answer in that thread?
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67675.0
I see no real answers there, do you?.
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12606.msg187629#msg187629
;D ;D ;D I see no real answers there, do you ;D ;D ;D?.
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=16214.msg267445#msg267445
How about why are clouds lit underneath?  The only answer I've ever gotten is that elves hold up mirrors. ???
Are you suggesting that, " ;D ;D ;D that elves hold up mirrors ;D ;D ;D."
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=41509.msg1033439#msg1033439
Looks like there's not much help there. So, Mr Bullwinkle, do you have an answer?

?

totallackey

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2018, 03:39:24 AM »
Hmm, no responses yet?

There are probably at least 100 threads on this topic already. Please don't spam in the Debate section.
None of which have plausible explanations. All that is presented are guesses like "the sunlight must be reflecting off something".
This falls flat when one considers the upward slanting shadow at sunrise from Mt Rainier.
There are no suitable large bodies of water south-east of Mt Rainier and the rising sun can be seen on the horizon of some photos.

This only happens during the fall and winter when the sun rises farther to the south,
and is in the exact position where Mount Rainier blocks the first rays of morning light.
This particular image was shot on the morning of October 26th, 2011. Photo by Nick Lippert

That photo and many others like it can be found in, The Shadow of Mount Rainier by Kaushik.
Not a guess Geoff...

You and every other roundy here know full well the earth and various surfaces on it are highly reflective!

And you know full well (even in your often inebriated state) that reflected light is fully capable of producing shadows.

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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2018, 03:58:29 AM »
You and every other roundy here know full well the earth and various surfaces on it are highly reflective!
No, while water surfaces might cause such reflections the ground surface could not.

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totallackey

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2018, 04:10:59 AM »
You and every other roundy here know full well the earth and various surfaces on it are highly reflective!
No, while water surfaces might cause such reflections the ground surface could not.
So, the area around Rainier is full of such surfaces!

Five major rivers!

The most glaciated peak in the contiguous 48!

Thanks for admitting your error!

There may be hope for you after all!

Another victory for FE!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 04:14:03 AM by totallackey »

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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2018, 05:39:18 AM »
You and every other roundy here know full well the earth and various surfaces on it are highly reflective!
No, while water surfaces might cause such reflections the ground surface could not.
So, the area around Rainier is full of such surfaces!

Five major rivers!
Rivers are not large enough for such reflections.

Quote from: totallackey
The most glaciated peak in the contiguous 48!
So what? The sun would need to be far to the south-east of Mt Rainier so glaciers on the mountain could not cause a shadow like that.

Look at this one. You can see where the sun is just above the horizon:
Try harder!

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totallackey

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2018, 06:33:40 AM »
Rivers are not large enough for such reflections.
Writes who????

Nobody, that's who.
Quote from: totallackey
The most glaciated peak in the contiguous 48!
So what? The sun would need to be far to the south-east of Mt Rainier so glaciers on the mountain could not cause a shadow like that.
Look at this one. You can see where the sun is just above the horizon:
Try harder!
Good thing at sunrise the sun happens to be far to the southeast then...

Try not to suck so bad Geoff!

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Bullwinkle

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2018, 09:40:39 AM »

At least 100?! Wow, really?! Could you please share one of these "100"s?


Wow, really?!  Search function too complicated for you?


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=68390.msg1838002#msg1838002
So do you any plausible answer in that thread?
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67675.0
I see no real answers there, do you?.
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12606.msg187629#msg187629
;D ;D ;D I see no real answers there, do you ;D ;D ;D?.
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=16214.msg267445#msg267445
How about why are clouds lit underneath?  The only answer I've ever gotten is that elves hold up mirrors. ???
Are you suggesting that, " ;D ;D ;D that elves hold up mirrors ;D ;D ;D."
Quote from: Bullwinkle
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=41509.msg1033439#msg1033439
Looks like there's not much help there. So, Mr Bullwinkle, do you have an answer?

He was too lazy to search for himself.
I searched for him.

Move along . . .

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2018, 02:48:32 PM »
You and every other roundy here know full well the earth and various surfaces on it are highly reflective!
And you know full well (even in your often inebriated state) that reflected light is fully capable of producing shadows.
Yes, various surfaces on Earth can be highly reflective, primarily water and man-made rivers.
However, they are not capable of producing the effects seen here, especially since there isn't water in an adequate location to do so.

Writes who????
Every sane person that understands reflections.
Go get a mirror, thentry reflecting a light. Notice how the light reflected is the shape of the mirror (with the exception of it being projected from 3D to 2D)?
If it was going to be a river causing the reflection you would see the shape of the river in the clouds with a break from the mountain. That isn't what happens.

Good thing at sunrise the sun happens to be far to the southeast then...
You clearly didn't understand what he said.
The point is the position of the sun means it isn't reflecting off the glaciers.

Try not to suck so bad
Good advice, you should try following it sometime.

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rabinoz

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2018, 03:00:23 PM »

He was too lazy to search for himself.
I searched for him.

Move along . . .
Sure and now you can explain how the sun can appear to light under the clouds and cast upward slanting shadows while not lighting the tops of the clouds as in:

Sun rise under the clouds at FL280, exceljet. In flight Cessna Citation VII flying at FL 280

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2018, 07:14:14 PM »

Wow, really?!  Search function too complicated for you?


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=68390.msg1838002#msg1838002

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67675.0

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12606.msg187629#msg187629

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=16214.msg267445#msg267445

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=41509.msg1033439#msg1033439

Yeaaaaa, I'm not gonna go through posts that have over 500 replies on it. Plus these posts were merely just discussions about the topic at hand, not actual proofs of it.

If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

*

Bullwinkle

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2018, 07:36:22 PM »

Yeaaaaa, I'm not gonna go through posts that have over 500 replies on it.

You asked for links, you got links.
Did you really think there would be no reading involved?

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2018, 07:51:45 PM »
You asked for links, you got links.
Did you really think there would be no reading involved?

Like I said before, these posts you provided are just discussions they didn't give a definitive answer with proof. Some of the links you provide aren't even related to the question I asked in the beginning.

Since you provided the links, you probably look at the discussions that happened. So, you would know the answers provided in the posts. Why don't you share this answer with me?

If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

*

Shifter

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2018, 07:58:43 PM »
You asked for links, you got links.
Did you really think there would be no reading involved?

Like I said before, these posts you provided are just discussions they didn't give a definitive answer with proof. Some of the links you provide aren't even related to the question I asked in the beginning.


Since you provided the links, you probably look at the discussions that happened. So, you would know the answers provided in the posts. Why don't you share this answer with me?

If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

You asked in the beginning about the sun going 'below the clouds'. No one, globe or flat earther alike believes this


Rabinoz = Coronoz. Australias corona virus super spreader

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Bullwinkle

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Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2018, 08:00:46 PM »
You asked for links, you got links.
Did you really think there would be no reading involved?

Like I said before, these posts you provided are just discussions they didn't give a definitive answer with proof. Some of the links you provide aren't even related to the question I asked in the beginning.

Since you provided the links, you probably look at the discussions that happened. So, you would know the answers provided in the posts. Why don't you share this answer with me?

If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.

Like I said before, you asked for links, you got links.

Re: The sun is under the clouds?
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2018, 08:16:52 PM »
You asked in the beginning about the sun going 'below the clouds'. No one, globe or flat earther alike believes this

Appear, you left out the word appear. How about you read my question again?
If the answer is so clear and simple, I don't see why it takes all of this back and forth nonsense. Just give an answer with valid proof behind it.