Poll

What qualifies as consent in a normal sexual encounter (meaning not in a context where the potential victim has been intimidated/coerced/forced into sex etc.)

Pfff consent is not needed... Rape away!
0 (0%)
You generally should stop at "no", but sometimes depending on the context it may mean yes.
2 (18.2%)
No means no, but in some cases it's not rape unless you get an explicit no, or something similar.
6 (54.5%)
An explicit yes is always needed, anything else is rape.
1 (9.1%)
An explicit yes is not enough, it's got to be enthusiastic and constantly reaffirmed, otherwise it's rape.
0 (0%)
It's rape regardless of consent if the victim did not enjoy it.
2 (18.2%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Consent

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Pezevenk

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Consent
« on: July 23, 2018, 06:54:50 AM »
So there are a few different opinions on what should constitute consent, and I wanted to see the opinions different people have on the subject. Please explain your reasons for having that opinion. I hope I have included all the main options that people usually pick and I'm not leaving anything out.
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DuckDodgers

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Re: Consent
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2018, 07:21:04 AM »
I think a positive confirmation is needed when it's with a new partner or under stressful situations with a regular partner (such as after a fight), but not needed under normal circumstances with a regular partner. However, if the partner says no, then it should stop regardless of what stage of the encounter it's uttered.

If there is a power dynamic going on, then I lean toward positive consent every time.
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Crouton

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Re: Consent
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2018, 07:52:28 AM »
I think a positive confirmation is needed when it's with a new partner or under stressful situations with a regular partner (such as after a fight), but not needed under normal circumstances with a regular partner. However, if the partner says no, then it should stop regardless of what stage of the encounter it's uttered.

If there is a power dynamic going on, then I lean toward positive consent every time.

Reasonable and well said. I suspect most people share this opinion. Well maybe not people in college. There's some weird things going on there. Or so the news would have me believe. It could almost be completely normal there.

The poll doesn't address the issue with intoxication though. As best as I can figure, 1 person is drunk = any sexual encounter is automatically rape. If both people are drunk then is it double rape or do the rapes cancel out? And if its a double rape. Then does that mean that anyone who jerks off while drunk is raping himself?
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2018, 07:57:56 AM »
Yeah, DuckDodgers nailed it. I don't know why people think the consent issue is so complicated.

Crouton is also correct, being intoxicated muddies things up. If one person is drunk and the other is not, the one who is not shouldn't try to pressure the drunk one into sex.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Consent
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 08:06:14 AM »
The problem is some people are too selfish to care about others.

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deadsirius

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Re: Consent
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 08:36:49 AM »
I like the idea of "constant reaffirmation".

"I would like your consent to thrust again."

"Yes, I consent!"

"Wonderful.  Was that thrust good for you?"

"Yes, I can confirm that as of now, I am satisfied with this sexual encounter."

"Splendid.  May I now thrust again?"

"Yes, I consent to that."

"I'm sorry...could you repeat that but a little more enthusiastically?"

Seriously though...it's not something that really breaks down well into codified rules (beyond the obvious).  Consent is not always enthusiastic--sometimes people just want to have sex even if they're not super excited about who they're doing it with.  Consent (like enthusiasm) is not necessarily verbal.

Everyone wants different things from different sexual encounters--use some common sense and basic empathy in all cases and relax.

"As best as I can figure, 1 person is drunk = any sexual encounter is automatically rape"

That is a bit scary.  I get there are extremes but in general this seems kind of blind to how real people are in the real world.  Not to say this is particularly healthy, but many people want to get drunk and sleep with someone...it's all part and parcel with a lifestyle common to many people in their young adult years
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Crouton

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Re: Consent
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2018, 08:44:46 AM »
I like the idea of "constant reaffirmation".

"I would like your consent to thrust again."

"Yes, I consent!"

"Wonderful.  Was that thrust good for you?"

"Yes, I can confirm that as of now, I am satisfied with this sexual encounter."

"Splendid.  May I now thrust again?"

"Yes, I consent to that."

"I'm sorry...could you repeat that but a little more enthusiastically?"


Way ahead of you.  I use a pair of two way radios with proper radio etiquette.    Not during the missionary position, that would be ridiculous.  Just during doggy style and reverse cowgirl.  I also give a ten second countdown when I'm close to the "main event".  Okay sometimes I'm off by a few seconds.
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Crouton

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Re: Consent
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2018, 08:51:28 AM »

"As best as I can figure, 1 person is drunk = any sexual encounter is automatically rape"

That is a bit scary.  I get there are extremes but in general this seems kind of blind to how real people are in the real world.  Not to say this is particularly healthy, but many people want to get drunk and sleep with someone...it's all part and parcel with a lifestyle common to many people in their young adult years

I was kind of joking about the college rape situation but I didn't sufficiently clarify it. 

http://time.com/4855492/betsy-devos-candice-jackson-campus-sexual-assault-accusations/

The thing about the discussion of consent is that it's mostly a college age thing.  Adults usually have a pretty clear idea about what crosses the line.  And affirmative constant consent... these people can have fun dying a virgin I guess. 
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markjo

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Re: Consent
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2018, 09:08:53 AM »
Is it still rape if she's on top?
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markjo

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Re: Consent
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2018, 09:15:57 AM »
Crouton is also correct, being intoxicated muddies things up. If one person is drunk and the other is not, the one who is not shouldn't try to pressure the drunk one into sex.
Then what was the point of getting her drunk in the first place?  :P

But seriously, an intoxicated person isn't legally capable of giving consent to sex.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Crouton

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Re: Consent
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 09:24:12 AM »
Crouton is also correct, being intoxicated muddies things up. If one person is drunk and the other is not, the one who is not shouldn't try to pressure the drunk one into sex.
Then what was the point of getting her drunk in the first place?  :P

But seriously, an intoxicated person isn't legally capable of giving consent to sex.

It depends on how intoxicated someone is I think.  Maybe a little on if they're experienced at being intoxicated.  If they're so drunk they're passed out then obviously they can't consent.  Other than that, I don't know, being drunk really doesn't alter my attraction to someone.
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DuckDodgers

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Re: Consent
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2018, 09:37:46 AM »
I feel if you're drunk and initiate sex, it can't be rape no matter how drunk you were. If someone else tries to initiate it with you while you're drunk, they should seek positive affirmation that your drunken self desires sex with them, which could simply be "do you want to sex with me?" Or "are you sure you want to make with the sex?"
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Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 11:11:57 AM »
If you find a girl passed out behind a dumpster, don't put your dick in her.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Consent
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
If you find a girl passed out behind a dumpster, don't put your dick in her.
What if a girl finds me passed out behind a dumpster? Can she put her dick in me?
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 11:28:47 AM »
If you find a girl passed out behind a dumpster, don't put your dick in her.
What if a girl finds me passed out behind a dumpster? Can she put her dick in me?

I think that is allowed.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Consent
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2018, 11:37:27 AM »
Yeah, DuckDodgers nailed it. I don't know why people think the consent issue is so complicated.

Crouton is also correct, being intoxicated muddies things up. If one person is drunk and the other is not, the one who is not shouldn't try to pressure the drunk one into sex.
Yeah, by saying "normal circumstances" I also meant to eliminate circumstances where there's intoxication stuff at play.

I was thinking about the subject because I was conversing with someone on Reddit who thought that unless there was an "enthusiastic yes" that's reaffirmed frequently and unless your partner seems super into it the whole time, it can't be considered consent. Also if it took convincing it's also not consent. All that seemed pretty weird to me and I wanted to see if everyone thinks like that, since my posts questioning her were getting downvoted, and I wanted to see if it's as common an opinion as it seemed.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Consent
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2018, 11:41:18 AM »
If you pay up front it's not rape.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2018, 11:45:37 AM »
Yes, it is.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: Consent
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 11:51:27 AM »
Yeah, DuckDodgers nailed it. I don't know why people think the consent issue is so complicated.

Crouton is also correct, being intoxicated muddies things up. If one person is drunk and the other is not, the one who is not shouldn't try to pressure the drunk one into sex.
Yeah, by saying "normal circumstances" I also meant to eliminate circumstances where there's intoxication stuff at play.

I was thinking about the subject because I was conversing with someone on Reddit who thought that unless there was an "enthusiastic yes" that's reaffirmed frequently and unless your partner seems super into it the whole time, it can't be considered consent. Also if it took convincing it's also not consent. All that seemed pretty weird to me and I wanted to see if everyone thinks like that, since my posts questioning her were getting downvoted, and I wanted to see if it's as common an opinion as it seemed.

The whole thing about affirmative consent is that it's really only necessary when someone is so unfamiliar with their partner that they'd need to constantly check to make sure that it's consensual.  But if they were really that uncomfortable and that unsure then it seems that the best thing to do would be to shelf sex until they build more of a relationship.  I mean, constantly having to ask, "hey I'm not raping you am I?" seems like a thoroughly unpleasant sexual encounter.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Consent
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2018, 11:55:18 AM »
Crouton is also correct, being intoxicated muddies things up. If one person is drunk and the other is not, the one who is not shouldn't try to pressure the drunk one into sex.
Then what was the point of getting her drunk in the first place?  :P

But seriously, an intoxicated person isn't legally capable of giving consent to sex.
What happens if both are intoxicated? Stuff gets a bit confusing then (assuming neither were borderline passed out). What stops the other person of claiming they were the ones who were raped instead back at them? They couldn't give consent either. Well I guess it's a question of who "initiated" it, but if both sides expressed willingness to have sex, I don't think it makes that much difference. And the judments of both sides are impaired, so why is the "rapist" held to a higher standard than when sober, when the "victim" is held to a lower standard than when sober? I don't know. It seems a bit weird to me. I'm not doing it anyways, but it seems people do it somewhat frequently without anyone complaining. But I guess the subject of birth control also enters the conversation there, because when people are drunk, they may take risks that they wouldn't otherwise take.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Consent
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2018, 11:57:24 AM »
Yeah, DuckDodgers nailed it. I don't know why people think the consent issue is so complicated.

Crouton is also correct, being intoxicated muddies things up. If one person is drunk and the other is not, the one who is not shouldn't try to pressure the drunk one into sex.
Yeah, by saying "normal circumstances" I also meant to eliminate circumstances where there's intoxication stuff at play.

I was thinking about the subject because I was conversing with someone on Reddit who thought that unless there was an "enthusiastic yes" that's reaffirmed frequently and unless your partner seems super into it the whole time, it can't be considered consent. Also if it took convincing it's also not consent. All that seemed pretty weird to me and I wanted to see if everyone thinks like that, since my posts questioning her were getting downvoted, and I wanted to see if it's as common an opinion as it seemed.

The whole thing about affirmative consent is that it's really only necessary when someone is so unfamiliar with their partner that they'd need to constantly check to make sure that it's consensual.  But if they were really that uncomfortable and that unsure then it seems that the best thing to do would be to shelf sex until they build more of a relationship.  I mean, constantly having to ask, "hey I'm not raping you am I?" seems like a thoroughly unpleasant sexual encounter.
Isn't most people's first time pretty weird and awkward though? I mean, according to her definition, it probably qualifies as rape...
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DuckDodgers

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Re: Consent
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2018, 11:59:56 AM »
There is your problem, never trust Reddit with SJW type stuff. In the real world, permission is granted with both words and actions and is maintained until withdrawn. Also, reluctant consent is still consent. If you truly don't want to have sex with someone, then asking multiple times won't change your mind.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2018, 12:05:38 PM »
If you're trying to be a decent human being and you sense that the consent is reluctant you would stop. If you don't know that the consent was reluctant, then you're not a rapist, it's just unfortunate. The person giving the reluctant consent probably doesn't know how to say no. People are weird.

And, yeah I imagine first time sex is awkward for everyone. If you have to stop and get enthusiastic consent every step of the way it would be even more awkward.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Consent
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2018, 12:20:35 PM »
The person giving the reluctant consent probably doesn't know how to say no.
Oh yeah, that's a thing I've heard many times, and I'm genuinely curious as to why. I know why some inexperienced guys do it (especially little boys, they are told to do something sexual and they just do it because they feel they're supposed to because there's this whole "you're dumb if you refuse sex because you lose something" mentality that some teenagers have), and I guess that applies to a certain extent to teenage girls too. But I would expect that especially for women, this wouldn't be as much of a problem lately.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2018, 12:25:10 PM »
Girls are trained not to say no, not to stand up for themselves, etc. To be pleasing. If they are afraid to say no it would be because they don't want the guy to not like them. They don't realize that if he doesn't like them for saying no, he didn't like them in the first place.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Consent
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2018, 12:39:48 PM »
Girls are trained not to say no, not to stand up for themselves, etc. To be pleasing. If they are afraid to say no it would be because they don't want the guy to not like them. They don't realize that if he doesn't like them for saying no, he didn't like them in the first place.
Well, yeah, I get that that's a thing that used to happen a lot, but does it still happen that much? From my experience, it seems like the newer generations are a lot more sensitive about those subjects and care a lot more about consent etc.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2018, 12:45:19 PM »
You out there banging lots of chicks? lol

In about 10 years you will have enough experience to know that you need a lot more experience.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Consent
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2018, 12:52:08 PM »

From my experience, it seems like the newer generations are a lot more sensitive about those subjects and care a lot more about consent etc.

Can you define 'newer' generations without sounding creepy? 

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Consent
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2018, 12:54:31 PM »
I think he's talking about collage sjws, but in the real world women are pressured to make the sex.

Teen Vogue - hey teenage grils, here's how to have anal sex.
Cosmo - put a donut on his dong!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: Consent
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2018, 01:13:12 PM »
In about 10 years you will have enough experience to know that you need a lot more experience.
Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.