Force?

  • 16 Replies
  • 2094 Views
Force?
« on: January 07, 2007, 03:03:15 PM »
Where does the energy pushing the Earth up accelerating at 1g come from?
Energy can’t just “appear” (Conservation of Energy).

EDIT: This is in favour of RE for once.

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Force?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2007, 03:11:29 PM »
Where does the energy pulling me down at an acceleration of 1g come from?

What the heck is energy, anyway, and how does it push and pull on things?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Force?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 03:43:02 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Where does the energy pulling me down at an acceleration of 1g come from?

What the heck is energy, anyway, and how does it push and pull on things?

In RE, gravity is what attributes to your 1g acceleration.

In the case FE, I can imagine some sort of rocket engine propelling the whole Universe upward.

Force?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 03:58:20 PM »
shfooooooom        floam!
he kinds of equations that they have now are the kinds of equations you would get in an approximation scheme to some underlying theory, but nobody knows what the underlying theory is.

discover magazine

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Force?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 04:06:29 PM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Where does the energy pulling me down at an acceleration of 1g come from?

What the heck is energy, anyway, and how does it push and pull on things?

In RE, gravity is what attributes to your 1g acceleration.


How does that address the issue of energy?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Force?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 04:16:27 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Where does the energy pulling me down at an acceleration of 1g come from?

What the heck is energy, anyway, and how does it push and pull on things?

In RE, gravity is what attributes to your 1g acceleration.


How does that address the issue of energy?

Gravity is not a force, it’s “a manifestation of curved space and time.” Therefore, all it needs is mass (Introduction to general relativity). I’m under the impression that relativity is generally accepted within FE, so I can use it as an explanation.

The question is, how does FE accomplish it?

?

GeoGuy

Force?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 04:24:05 PM »
That doesn't answer the energy question either Dragon.

Force?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 05:50:30 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
That doesn't answer the energy question either Dragon.


I guess you could say: it doesn’t. It doesn’t use energy in the first place.

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Force?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2007, 06:27:54 PM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
I guess you could say: it doesn’t. It doesn’t use energy in the first place.


On the contrary: the article you link says

Quote from: "WP"
Furthermore, mass is a form of energy in relativity


I don't know what exactly you mean by "it doesn't use energy"; it's not clear to me how any theory uses energy to begin with.  What exactly are you asking?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Force?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2007, 06:56:17 PM »
The question was, where does the energy needed for the UA come from. Why don't you guys just answer the question?
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

?

GeoGuy

Force?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 07:02:55 PM »
To which we replied "Where does the energy pulling me down at an acceleration of 1g come from?

What the heck is energy, anyway, and how does it push and pull on things?"
Why don't you answer our questions?

Force?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2007, 07:53:29 PM »
conservation of energy only applies if there is no external force.  in this flat earth model, there is an external force, namely, the one pushing the earth up.  

There is no energy pulling you down, there is a force.  in RE that force is the gravitational force, which is equal to G((mM)/r^2).

or in words, the gravitational constant(6.67*10^-11) times the mass of the first times the mass of the second object, divided by the distance between the centers of mass for both objects squared.

in FE, this force arises from the upwards acceleration of the earth, which would come from Newton's second law, F=ma. or force equals mass times acceleration.

energy is the ability to do work.
quot;But I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them."
-Galileo Galilei

*

TheEngineer

  • Planar Moderator
  • 15483
  • GPS does not require satellites.
Force?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 08:52:59 PM »
Quote from: "clockworkmonk"

or in words, the gravitational constant(6.67*10^-11) times the mass of the first times the mass of the second object, divided by the distance between the centers of mass for both objects squared.

I love it when RE'ers regurgitate a science book which does nothing to answer the question.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Force?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2007, 09:01:34 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "clockworkmonk"

or in words, the gravitational constant(6.67*10^-11) times the mass of the first times the mass of the second object, divided by the distance between the centers of mass for both objects squared.

I love it when RE'ers regurgitate a science book which does nothing to answer the question.


IM waiting for one of them to prove RE wrong. :roll:
quote="DiegoDraw"]"And Moses said unto his brethren: 'The Earth is flat!...biznatches,'" [/quote]
DOT INFO

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Force?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2007, 09:14:55 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
To which we replied "Where does the energy pulling me down at an acceleration of 1g come from?

What the heck is energy, anyway, and how does it push and pull on things?"
Why don't you answer our questions?


Indeed; where does the energy that powers your mysterious and eternal "gravity" come from?  You're telling me it has been operational for billions of years without running out of juice?  Come on.  WHERE DOES ALL THE ENERGY COME FROM THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Force?
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2007, 11:06:27 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
To which we replied "Where does the energy pulling me down at an acceleration of 1g come from?

What the heck is energy, anyway, and how does it push and pull on things?"
Why don't you answer our questions?


Indeed; where does the energy that powers your mysterious and eternal "gravity" come from?  You're telling me it has been operational for billions of years without running out of juice?  Come on.  WHERE DOES ALL THE ENERGY COME FROM THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.

The energy comes from the Earth’s mass, I think.

I’m not prepared enough to do a good debate on Energy/Force. Please forgive my un-educated-ness as a hypothetical, temporary RE’r.

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Force?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2007, 07:47:14 AM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
The energy comes from the Earth’s mass, I think.


Mass is converted to energy by the processes of nuclear fusion and fission.  To my knowledge, no RE scientists believe that this is occurring in the Earth's core, or for that matter inside any other non-star bodies that seem to emit a gravitational field (such as the moon, small asteroids, or the lead balls in Cavendish's experiment).

The problem is that you are thinking of energy as something that batteries have in a finite amount, and which is expended as the batteries get used.  Not so.  Energy is a useful mathematical object for predicting how systems will evolve over time.

In the case of RE gravity, many problems can be solved easily if you define a "gravitational potential energy field" (i.e. every point in space has a number "in" it); objects always move from places with higher energy to lower energy, and the amount of gravitational potential energy they lose has to be converted to something other form of energy, like heat or light or speed.  

In the case of FE gravity, you can just define another potential energy field in space, the "UA potential energy field" or something, where "up" gets you into lower potentials than "down".

The "energy" doesn't make objects fall or the FE accelerate; it just describes the kinematics of how these processes take place.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?