Poll

What do you think about Hunting

I LOVE Hunting. I am a big player in the rhino horn and elephant ivory trade!
0 (0%)
I just hunt non endangered animals like deer, ducks and BullWinkles
5 (26.3%)
Hunting is despicable as a sport. It should only be done out of a neccessity for food or survival
9 (47.4%)
Killing animals is wrong. There is never any justification.
0 (0%)
I don't hunt but I support those that do (clarify what level you support)
5 (26.3%)

Total Members Voted: 19

What do you think about Hunting?

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2018, 04:09:10 AM »
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

Sure, that's exactly what I said.   ::)
Well I thought you're being ironic.
But still, your point doesn't make sense. So because animals die anyway we may just kill them? Huh? Dafuq m8?
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Bullwinkle

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2018, 04:30:30 AM »
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

Sure, that's exactly what I said.   ::)
Well I thought you're being ironic.
But still, your point doesn't make sense. So because animals die anyway we may just kill them? Huh? Dafuq m8?


Nobody is going to force you to butcher meat.
Feel free to buy it pre-dressed by the pound.

It's only an animal if you see it's eyes, right?   ;D

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Bullwinkle

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2018, 04:32:48 AM »
Do you know what McNuggets are made of? 

OK, bad example, nobody knows what they're made of.   :)

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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2018, 04:43:55 AM »
Hunters don't murder the mommies and babies.
They typically take the old males that have been relieved of their siring duties by younger males.
So what you're saying is that he can come and kill you  ;)

Also I'm not convinced they do indeed only kill those ones, and even if that were true, it still is not a very good point.

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Wolves and lions and disease get their share and are much less selective.
Well why not leave it to them then? Even if they only kill the old and diseased ones (which is not an excuse), they are depriving predators and scavengers of their food. They were evolving fine together before humans hacked the system. Plus your point about the old ones could only ever apply to some mammals. For birds they mostly just shoot whatever.
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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2018, 04:44:57 AM »
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

Sure, that's exactly what I said.   ::)
Well I thought you're being ironic.
But still, your point doesn't make sense. So because animals die anyway we may just kill them? Huh? Dafuq m8?


Nobody is going to force you to butcher meat.
Feel free to buy it pre-dressed by the pound.

It's only an animal if you see it's eyes, right?   ;D
Did you miss the rest of the thread? Everyone knows how meat is made.
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JerkFace

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2018, 05:54:46 AM »
So why are you distinguishing between farmers and hunters?   What factor is determining your attitude?
For one it's a way to make a living, for the other it's a sport. For one it's a necessity, for the other it's just because they like killing animals. Also extra shittiness points if their hunting endangeres species. But not all farmers are saints either, some treat the animals in their farms awful and large scale farming is just as bad for the environment. I don't really like these people either.

Ok, so it's only bad in your mind if the animal is killed because the person doing it likes killing?   What about insisting on humane practices,  or even some spiritual connections like halal requires.  Making sure the animal doesn't suffer unecessarily would seem to outweigh the other considerations you are raising.


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So why is it relevant that I don't hunt for my food?

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.
Where's the hypocrisy? It would be hypocritical if I was a hunter and still called them out.

Huh?  I thought I explained this already.   You can either accept that an animal has been killed to provide you with food or not, If you accept it, then you no longer have moral standing to complain about the people who do the killing on your behalf.   To accept the food, and then complain about the killing that provided it, is hypocritical.

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Yeah, that's also a false equivalency. Even though I don't think people who hunt because it's their job or something are bad in general, I still think they're bad if what they're doing impacts the ecosystem in a negative way.

No it is in fact equivalent,  an animal is killed to provide meat in both cases.  You can't object to killing in one case and not the other.

I agree on your ecosystem comment.
Well if you agree, why do you still think it's equivalent?

The ecosystem is a separate question,  there is no coorelation between hunting per se, and negative ecosystem impacts.
The equivalency is the argument I've already outlined. 

If you don't like people killing animals for meat,  then don't eat meat.   If you eat meat then don't complain that someone had to kill an animal.   You can't have both.

I doubt I can make it any simpler.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 05:56:48 AM by JerkFace »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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boydster

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2018, 06:08:36 AM »
What's amazing about all of this is that there seems to be one side saying "people need to eat meat, dummy" and another saying "sport killing is not cool, you asshole" and those activities are different entities so the arguments just don't mesh very well. On the sport-hunting side, I get the impression we're envisioning a safari hunter riding in a Jeep with a guide that's taking him to all the places he knows the lions like to hang out. And on the survival/people-eat-meat side, we're talking about something like hunting deer and having a freezer full of venison that will actually get eaten.

Am I missing something?

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Bullwinkle

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2018, 06:22:32 AM »

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

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boydster

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2018, 06:56:13 AM »
I am pro venison freezer. I have hunters in my family. We ate wild animals. Some of those animals now have their racks mounted. And I have absolutely zero problem with any of that.

I usually catch-and-release when I fish. Sometimes I catch-and-eat. I've also harvested and eaten clams and mussels.

People are apex predators. The top of the food chain. Other animals are our food. Nature ain't purty. If someone wants to eat veggies, more power to you, but that's the exception and not the rule.

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2018, 07:04:54 AM »
Quote
The top of the food chain.
Strong argument  ::)
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boydster

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2018, 07:07:10 AM »
Quote
The top of the food chain.
Strong argument  ::)

Obvious troll is obvious.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2018, 07:20:48 AM »
What's amazing about all of this is that there seems to be one side saying "people need to eat meat, dummy" and another saying "sport killing is not cool, you asshole" and those activities are different entities so the arguments just don't mesh very well. On the sport-hunting side, I get the impression we're envisioning a safari hunter riding in a Jeep with a guide that's taking him to all the places he knows the lions like to hang out. And on the survival/people-eat-meat side, we're talking about something like hunting deer and having a freezer full of venison that will actually get eaten.

Am I missing something?

Yes, I think this what has happened with the thread.

Trophy hunting is bad, imo.
Hunting for the purpose of eating is good, imo.

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2018, 07:25:47 AM »
Ok, so it's only bad in your mind if the animal is killed because the person doing it likes killing?
No, I think it's bad, period. But the reason or justification one has to do a bad thing makes a difference in my mind. When one hunts for fun, what that shows me is a desensitization to violence towards animals to the point of enjoying it. That's a quality I don't like in a person. I'm not obloged to like what they're doing.

Quote
  What about insisting on humane practices,  or even some spiritual connections like halal requires.  Making sure the animal doesn't suffer unecessarily would seem to outweigh the other considerations you are raising.
Humane practices are good. But in the end of the day you're still killing it.

Quote
Huh?  I thought I explained this already.   You can either accept that an animal has been killed to provide you with food or not, If you accept it, then you no longer have moral standing to complain about the people who do the killing on your behalf.   To accept the food, and then complain about the killing that provided it, is hypocritical.

First of all, hunters don't do any killing for my behalf. Second, I already explained that even if you acknowledge something has to be done, it doesn't necessarily mean you like the person who has chosen to do it. Third, I also said I don't generally have an issue with farmers. Fourth, as I also said, me eating animals is not something I'm proud of and I'm trying to change it and have already done progress, so don't accuse me of being hypocritical when I say I believe it's wrong.

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The ecosystem is a separate question,  there is no coorelation between hunting per se, and negative ecosystem impacts.
The equivalency is the argument I've already outlined. 
But I said it's not equivalent for these situations where it does have a negative impact (which is many situations).

Quote
If you don't like people killing animals for meat,  then don't eat meat.   
Thanks for the suggestion,  if only I had thought about it sooner  ::)

Also you're trying to make hunting equivalent to purchasing meat but it's just not, for many reasons, some of which I've outlined.
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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2018, 07:27:37 AM »

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.
What?
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Bullwinkle

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2018, 08:41:35 AM »

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

What?

Bambi.

People don't think twice about spraying poison on little ugly creatures but want to protect the big cute animals.


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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #75 on: July 07, 2018, 10:38:32 AM »

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

What?

Bambi.

People don't think twice about spraying poison on little ugly creatures but want to protect the big cute animals.
That has absolutely nothing to do with Bambi. I've never seen Bambi. I did watch a bunch of movies with anthropomorphic insects and I still don't give a fuck about them. It's not a matter of cuteness either.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #76 on: July 07, 2018, 10:43:10 AM »

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

What?

Bambi.

People don't think twice about spraying poison on little ugly creatures but want to protect the big cute animals.
That has absolutely nothing to do with Bambi. I've never seen Bambi. I did watch a bunch of movies with anthropomorphic insects and I still don't give a fuck about them. It's not a matter of cuteness either.

You just kill at random?

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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2018, 12:05:15 PM »
You just kill at random?
Lol I kill mosquitoes at random! Fuck them!
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JerkFace

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2018, 05:54:46 PM »

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

I blame Alex Anderson.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #79 on: July 08, 2018, 01:26:54 AM »

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

I blame Alex Anderson.
Who is that?
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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JerkFace

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Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Pezevenk

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2018, 02:09:32 AM »
Ooooh I get it now.
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deadsirius

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2018, 08:59:50 AM »
Interesting topic.  I've never hunted--it's not that I absolutely would refuse to...more just a general sense that I personally would not gain anything from it.

I am 100% against causing animals unneeded suffering.  But philosophically, I'm not sure I believe that the death of an individual animal really...matters.  I guess I'm saying I don't see it as fundamentally tragic in the way that human death is.

When my dad was living out west he routinely shot rattlesnakes, groundhogs, and anything else on the property that was a clear and present danger to the people or animals living there (groundhog holes break horse legs).  This I see no issue with.

Generally I think hunting for the hell of it is kind of dumb, but my opinion took a bit of a u-turn fifteen years ago when I totaled my 86 Buick on an unlucky deer at about 60 mph.  That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal, but the point is whitetail deer are the opposite of endangered in North America.  Some moderated population control is fine with me.

Now you could argue that us having our roads and cars going through their ancestral habitat is the real problem here, but that's for another thread...
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2018, 09:06:27 AM »
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That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal
It's not just anectotal, it's plain stupid.


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The Real Celine Dion

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2018, 09:08:47 AM »
Hey, I love farm animals. Especially love eating them.
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2018, 09:11:12 AM »
Hey, I love farm animals. Especially love eating them.
We all know you hate all living creatures except for yourself - although I'm not sure if we could consider your empty existance 'living'.
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deadsirius

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2018, 09:11:30 AM »
Quote
That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal
It's not just anectotal, it's plain stupid.




You'll have to forgive me but reading through this thread I find it a little hard to take you seriously on the subject.

At any rate, I was there and you weren't, so you'll have to take my word for it when i say the bullet would've been much more humane
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2018, 09:25:42 AM »
Quote
That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal
It's not just anectotal, it's plain stupid.




You'll have to forgive me but reading through this thread I find it a little hard to take you seriously on the subject.

At any rate, I was there and you weren't, so you'll have to take my word for it when i say the bullet would've been much more humane
It's not that single scenario that is 'plain stupid', it's about the conclusions you are implying. Of course, for that one deer it might have been better to get shot than run over (and even that is your opinion and not a fact). But there is no way to forsee the future and know which deers would get run over and which not. So, you obviously can't kill all deer and other animals that could possibly run in front of your car. Therefore it's just a very silly argument, I'm sorry but that's my opinion.
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DuckDodgers

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2018, 09:33:45 AM »
You can control the population to reduce the possibility of deer crossing roads due to foraging though. More deer means they have to go further to find food, increasing the chances of crossing roadways.
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What do you think about Hunting?
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2018, 09:43:59 AM »
You could also control the human population, and reduce the chance of a human running over a deer, while greatly reducing pollution.

Or we could just not kill and find morally correct solutions.
But I get it - those are not as simple & easy as taking your gun out and go shooting.
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