Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?

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bullhorn

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« on: January 06, 2007, 11:20:10 PM »
I wonder if we are at a full stop, is there something slower?

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 11:23:45 PM »
In terms of velocity, going backward is negative velocity, which is less than 0.

In terms of speed, I donít think so.

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Erasmus

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2007, 11:26:27 PM »
By the usual definitions of "stop" and "slower", no, there is no speed slower than a full stop.
Why did the chicken cross the MŲbius strip?

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 12:49:10 AM »
Unless you go backwards in time. Which under Quantum Mechanics, various anti-matter particles canÖ

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TheEngineer

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 07:29:42 AM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
In terms of velocity, going backward is negative velocity, which is less than 0.

In terms of speed, I donít think so.

Negative velocity indicates a direction, not a speed less than zero.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 01:39:45 PM »
unless you go into the space/time continum.
he kinds of equations that they have now are the kinds of equations you would get in an approximation scheme to some underlying theory, but nobody knows what the underlying theory is.

discover magazine

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 02:13:36 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "zaudragon"
In terms of velocity, going backward is negative velocity, which is less than 0.

In terms of speed, I donít think so.

Negative velocity indicates a direction, not a speed less than zero.

I never said so. Thatís why I said the second sentence; to say that I was not talking about speed, but velocity.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 02:26:47 PM »
Unless you want to count the possibility of traveling backwards in time, no. But then traveling backwards in time is almost assuredly impossible.


Basically: No.

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TheEngineer

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2007, 02:55:16 PM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
In terms of velocity, going backward is negative velocity, which is less than 0.


Which is not true.  Velocity cannot be less than zero.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2007, 02:56:08 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "zaudragon"
In terms of velocity, going backward is negative velocity, which is less than 0.


Which is not true.  Velocity cannot be less than zero.

Isnít that the definition of ďnegativeĒ?

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Nomad

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 03:49:55 PM »
I think what Engineer is saying is that there is no such thing as "negative" velocity.  There is negative acceleration, which I think may be what you are confusing here, but nothing such as negative velocity.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.
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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2007, 03:53:28 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I think what Engineer is saying is that there is no such thing as "negative" velocity.  There is negative acceleration, which I think may be what you are confusing here, but nothing such as negative velocity.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.


Nope, Iím saying velocity can be negative.

I go 10m/s this way -------------------> My velocity is 10m/s
I go 10m/s this way <------------------- My velocity is -10m/s relative to the first velocity.

I guess you can argue that there is no negative velocity when you just have one object moving.

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 04:00:27 PM »
whichever way you go the air pressure forces you back, but in space there is no air pressure i dont get that why isn't there air in outerspace how would we be alive!??
he kinds of equations that they have now are the kinds of equations you would get in an approximation scheme to some underlying theory, but nobody knows what the underlying theory is.

discover magazine

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GeoGuy

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2007, 04:27:30 PM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"


Nope, Iím saying velocity can be negative.

I go 10m/s this way -------------------> My velocity is 10m/s
I go 10m/s this way <------------------- My velocity is -10m/s relative to the first velocity.



Not at all Dragon. Velocity is a vector quantity. Meaning you need a speed and direction. Your graph should read:

I go 10m/s east----------------> My velocity is 10m/s east
I go 10m/s west <-------------- My velocity is 10m/s west

There is no "negative velocity".

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Nomad

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2007, 04:38:52 PM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I think what Engineer is saying is that there is no such thing as "negative" velocity.  There is negative acceleration, which I think may be what you are confusing here, but nothing such as negative velocity.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.


Nope, Iím saying velocity can be negative.

I go 10m/s this way -------------------> My velocity is 10m/s
I go 10m/s this way <------------------- My velocity is -10m/s relative to the first velocity.

I guess you can argue that there is no negative velocity when you just have one object moving.


No.  That is still just "velocity in the other direction".  Call it "negative velocity" if you will, but it isn't really proper.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.
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TheEngineer

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2007, 04:56:44 PM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I think what Engineer is saying is that there is no such thing as "negative" velocity.  There is negative acceleration, which I think may be what you are confusing here, but nothing such as negative velocity.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.


Nope, Iím saying velocity can be negative.

I go 10m/s this way -------------------> My velocity is 10m/s
I go 10m/s this way <------------------- My velocity is -10m/s relative to the first velocity.

I guess you can argue that there is no negative velocity when you just have one object moving.

So tell me, is the velocity of this vector <-10,2,1> less than zero?


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BOGWarrior89

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2007, 05:09:08 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I think what Engineer is saying is that there is no such thing as "negative" velocity.  There is negative acceleration, which I think may be what you are confusing here, but nothing such as negative velocity.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.


Nope, Iím saying velocity can be negative.

I go 10m/s this way -------------------> My velocity is 10m/s
I go 10m/s this way <------------------- My velocity is -10m/s relative to the first velocity.

I guess you can argue that there is no negative velocity when you just have one object moving.

So tell me, is the velocity of this vector <-10,2,1> less than zero?


Vector quantities don't equal scalar quantities; that's like setting an apple equal to a Subaru.

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2007, 05:49:24 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I think what Engineer is saying is that there is no such thing as "negative" velocity.  There is negative acceleration, which I think may be what you are confusing here, but nothing such as negative velocity.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.


Nope, Iím saying velocity can be negative.

I go 10m/s this way -------------------> My velocity is 10m/s
I go 10m/s this way <------------------- My velocity is -10m/s relative to the first velocity.

I guess you can argue that there is no negative velocity when you just have one object moving.


No.  That is still just "velocity in the other direction".  Call it "negative velocity" if you will, but it isn't really proper.  Velocity in any direction is still positive.

Velocity is a vector, as people have said before. You need direction to define it. Negative velocity is therefore going in the opposite direction. Although, 10m/s North/South/East/West would be less ambiguous.

Velocity is change in position/change in time. Now, if you moved from 0 to -3 in 10 seconds ((0,0) to (-3,10) with x as position and y as time) your velocity would be -3/10 or -0.3m/s.

I used Wikipedia.

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BOGWarrior89

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2007, 06:07:32 PM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Velocity is a vector, as people have said before. You need direction to define it. Negative velocity is therefore going in the opposite direction. Although, 10m/s North/South/East/West would be less ambiguous.

Velocity is change in position/change in time. Now, if you moved from 0 to -3 in 10 seconds ((0,0) to (-3,10) with x as position and y as time) your velocity would be -3/10 or -0.3m/s.

I used Wikipedia.


That is an exploitation of your coordinate system.

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TheEngineer

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2007, 06:14:21 PM »
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"

Vector quantities don't equal scalar quantities; that's like setting an apple equal to a Subaru.

You think?  That was my point.


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BOGWarrior89

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2007, 06:17:12 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"

Vector quantities don't equal scalar quantities; that's like setting an apple equal to a Subaru.

You think?  That was my point.

I already knew that was your point.

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2007, 10:42:34 PM »
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"
Quote from: "zaudragon"
Velocity is a vector, as people have said before. You need direction to define it. Negative velocity is therefore going in the opposite direction. Although, 10m/s North/South/East/West would be less ambiguous.

Velocity is change in position/change in time. Now, if you moved from 0 to -3 in 10 seconds ((0,0) to (-3,10) with x as position and y as time) your velocity would be -3/10 or -0.3m/s.

I used Wikipedia.


That is an exploitation of your coordinate system.

True. But then again, this happens in all coordinate systems in some direction.

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2007, 04:08:13 AM »
Personally i believe that the better question is not "is there a speed lower than no speed at all" but is instead " is there such a thing AS no speed at all" considering even if you are at rest on the Earth surface you are still in motion, so is it actually possible to be totally at rest?

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2007, 06:46:49 AM »
Quote from: "DrQuak"
Personally i believe that the better question is not "is there a speed lower than no speed at all" but is instead " is there such a thing AS no speed at all" considering even if you are at rest on the Earth surface you are still in motion, so is it actually possible to be totally at rest?


Not only that, but due to the expansion of the Universe, your frame of reference would be constantly changing.

I would say a velocity of exactly 0 in any direction would be quite improbable, but not mathematically impossible.
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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2007, 01:32:34 AM »
he has a strong point right there

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beast

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2007, 02:59:50 AM »
Quote from: "zaudragon"

Velocity is a vector, as people have said before. You need direction to define it. Negative velocity is therefore going in the opposite direction. Although, 10m/s North/South/East/West would be less ambiguous.

Velocity is change in position/change in time. Now, if you moved from 0 to -3 in 10 seconds ((0,0) to (-3,10) with x as position and y as time) your velocity would be -3/10 or -0.3m/s.

I used Wikipedia.


I'm sorry, you're officially an idiot.  There is no mention of negative velocity in that wikipedia article and I don't think it's actually relevant at all.  Sure you can do an equation regarding velocity and end up with a negative number, but that's clearly a completely separate issue to actually having negative velocity.  I'd be curious to know what you're study level in physics is, because it is blatantly obvious that in a true sense of the word "negative" such as it is being used in the context of this discussion, you cannot have negative velocity, it just doesn't make sense.

edit: And just to be clear - the negative number you receive in a velocity calculation is based on an arbitary decision of which direction is positive and which is negative - it simply refers to the opposite direction as the one the person doing the calculation decide was the positive direction.  It does not have any bearing on reality.

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Erasmus

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2007, 01:16:53 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
I would say a velocity of exactly 0 in any direction would be quite improbable, but not mathematically impossible.


It's possible to have a zero velocity relative to some other object; it is not meaningful to talk about velocities unless it is specified what the velocities are relative to.
Why did the chicken cross the MŲbius strip?

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EvilToothpaste

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2007, 12:05:01 PM »
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
Unless you want to count the possibility of traveling backwards in time, no.


Are you sure that would result in a negative speed?

Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2007, 01:56:39 AM »
Quote from: "EvilToothpaste"
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
Unless you want to count the possibility of traveling backwards in time, no.


Are you sure that would result in a negative speed?


I was going to raise that question to.

How would traveling backwards in time define a speed of less then 0?

If time travels forward at 1 second per second, then wouldn't traveling backwards in time be defined in exactly the same manor? As in you travel backwards in time 1 second every second. Obviously you would have to define an actual speed and form of measurement for time which is impossible because time is relative to the human mind. Unlike other objects in our reality time can be different for two people in the same room.
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Raist

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Is there such a speed slower than no speed at all?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2007, 10:12:47 PM »
Your looking at this the wrong way. If an object is going 10 m/h in a west direction isn't that -10m/h east?