Mountain of evidence

  • 17 Replies
  • 5499 Views
?

NoPetrol

Mountain of evidence
« on: November 30, 2005, 06:57:08 PM »
Why are there time zones?  Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time?

Why is it that as you move away from a tall structure its top disappears first?

Why is it that when you look out into the ocean the horizon appears curved?  

The reason that the earth appears flat when you look at only a small area is because the earth is so large that the curve in a small area is negligible.  If you look at a large area, like the ocean, or if you look out from a tall structure or aircraft, the curve is obvious.  

Why is it not possible to see the Washington Monument from the top of the Empire State Building with binoculars?  

I see satellites up in the sky at night.  How would they be able to orbit a flat Earth?

*

bullhorn

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 622
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2005, 12:48:49 AM »
Why are there time zones? Because they are man made and created by man.
Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time?  This is due to atmospheric conditions
Why is it that as you move away from a tall structure its top disappears first? Because it is due to atmospheric conditions
Why is it that when you look out into the ocean the horizon appears curved?It doesent to me this could be due to the fact that light refracts under certain conditions.
The reason that the earth appears flat when you look at only a small area is because the earth is so large that the curve in a small area is negligible. If you look at a large area, like the ocean, or if you look out from a tall structure or aircraft, the curve is obvious. ? This can be explaned by the above
Why is it not possible to see the Washington Monument from the top of the Empire State Building with binoculars? Particles in the air similar to how you cant see 100 feet on a fogy day
I see satellites up in the sky at night. How would they be able to orbit a flat Earth? How do you know they are satalites

?

Dr_Bill

Ok bullhorn
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2005, 09:15:11 PM »
bullhorn .... You make sense .... bloody twisted sense

.........

Mountain of evidence
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2005, 11:37:34 AM »
Your answers to everything arent answers at all.  You just throw three words in but dont explain them, that is why science is real and your theories are not.

It's like someone asking me why I wasn't at class today and I said "atmospheric conditions"... it COULD be true, but if i dont explain it it makes no sense.

Of course I think you understand this very well, you just dont HAVE any information to back up your "explanations"

Oh and how are time zones "mane-made" ?  Have you ever flown from one time zone to another?  You can out run the sunrise.

Mountain of evidence
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2005, 10:06:25 PM »
Quote
Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time? This is due to atmospheric conditions


I think it might be a good idea, bullhorn, to explain how and what atmospheric condititions are responsible for the production of day and night on such a regular basis, versus the irregularity of the weather in general.

Mountain of evidence
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2005, 10:52:58 AM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time?
So you are saying that these atmospherical conditions are always occuring??? Three words. . .EARTH IS ROUND!!!
he Earth is round!!!!

Mountain of evidence
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2005, 08:38:29 AM »
May I ask what kind of 'atmospheric conditions' manage to block out all of the light from the Sun? That must be a lot of dust!  Yet, apparantly it is dust with holes in, so that we can see the stars.

One small aside.  According to the general theory of relativity, it is true that the Earth is flying upwards with an acceleration of 9.8ms^-2... this is called gravity.

?

6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2005, 07:21:10 PM »
I'm not going to belabour the point that bullhorn using "atomospheric conditions" without explaining what these conditions ore is completely retarded, but I would like to point out that bullhorn is being a complete hypocrite:

Bullhorn, in another topic, you overapplied Ockham's razor, saying your belief is more valid because it's simpler, now I'd like you to apply this same logic to these thoughts;

Why are there time zones? Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time?

Why is it that as you move away from a tall structure its top disappears first?

Why is it that when you look out into the ocean the horizon appears curved?

Why is it not possible to see the Washington Monument from the top of the Empire State Building with binoculars?

I see satellites up in the sky at night. How would they be able to orbit a flat Earth?

Look, the earth being round explains all of these, and your solution takes several different explanations, ergo, by your own logic of over aplication of Ockham's razor, the earth is round.

Also, you say that a lot of these are simply due to optical illusions, decieving us, rendering us incapable of believing our own eyes, but you then cite that we can easily see that the earth is flat, simply by looking around...but then isn't it possible (and I ask this rhetorically because it is not only possible but a fact) that what you're seeing is in fact an optical illusion, and not all these other things, which can be explained as a result of accepting that what you claim as fact is an optical illusion?

Mountain of evidence
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2005, 04:50:37 PM »
Very well said.
efore making fun of someone, walk a mile in their shoes. Then your a mile away and you have their shoes.

?

6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2005, 07:14:42 PM »
Thanks, and you'll notice how after my tremendously valid point bullhorn and all other flat-earthers will avoid this topic like the plague?

?

pspunit

  • The Elder Ones
  • 98
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2005, 08:38:47 PM »
indeed...bullhorn, RESPOND TO THIS CHAP'S REMARKS, YOU PANZY!!!
Three people of different nationalities walk into the bar. Two of them say something smart, and the third one makes a mockery of his fellow countrymen by acting dumb."

*

bullhorn

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 622
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2005, 10:40:35 PM »
Question:  Why are there time zones? Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time?  

Answer: I donít know why there are time zones, that was created my man, as to the question of why there is day and night. That question, I will have to more research in depth. One could assume that they were created to help business.

Question: Why is it that as you move away from a tall structure its top disappears first?

Answer: I assume it has to do with the same principal when you move away from an object it gets smaller

Question: Why is it that when you look out into the ocean the horizon appears curved?


Answer: I assume it has to do with the refraction of the water


Question: Why is it not possible to see the Washington Monument from the top of the Empire State Building with binoculars

Answer: The answer would be atmosphere dust and fog similar to a foggy day


Question: I see satellites up in the sky at night. How would they be able to orbit a flat Earth?


Answer: How do you know they are satellites?


You see these answers can all be explained by Occams razor. They are the most simple explanations to the problems.

?

pspunit

  • The Elder Ones
  • 98
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2005, 06:46:26 AM »
these answers are simple because they are hardly, if at all, answers. They're all assumptions. How do you know that there are not satellites? If they are not, what are they? How could boat's bottoms disappearing first work on the same principle as them getting smaller.
Three people of different nationalities walk into the bar. Two of them say something smart, and the third one makes a mockery of his fellow countrymen by acting dumb."

Mountain of evidence
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2005, 06:51:08 AM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
Answer: I donít know why there are time zones, that was created my man, as to the question of why there is day and night. That question, I will have to more research in depth. One could assume that they were created to help business.


We did create time zones, but we are not able to simultaneous cause half of the earth to be darkened on a planar earth.

Quote from: "6strings"
Question: Why is it that as you move away from a tall structure its top disappears first?


I guess you're saying that the top rotates away from the viewer, but I can't see what you mean.

Quote from: "bullhorn"
Answer: I assume it has to do with the refraction of the water


Please present a visual diagram of both what he saw and how it'd work.

Quote from: "6strings"
Question: Why is it not possible to see the Washington Monument from the top of the Empire State Building with binoculars


The Washington Monument is approximately 206.56 miles (332.42 kilometers) away from the Empire State Building. What is the maximum visibility so far as we've found it to be on a clear day? This document may assist you.
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/085/mwr-085-04-0121.pdf

Quote from: "bullhorn"
Answer: The answer would be atmosphere dust and fog similar to a foggy day


If the maximum visibility, as stated, is accurate, then "atmospheric dust" would have no further influence on the distance mentioned above.

Quote from: "bullhorn"
Answer: How do you know they are satellites?


You can neither confirm nor deny what they are as well. Please use valid reasoning.

Quote from: "bullhorn"
You see these answers can all be explained by Occams razor. They are the most simple explanations to the problems.


"Multiples should not be used if not needed."
"Given two equally predictive theories, choose the simpler."
-Wikipedia

Provide a specific layout of "facts" and "opinions" that reveals a why your answer is simpler.

*

bullhorn

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 622
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2005, 11:25:31 AM »
I think it is clear, I have answered all your questions. The fact that they are not answered to your satisfaction is not my problem. They were answered with a scientific basis.  Its interesting that the webiste you quoted me was a government website.

Mountain of evidence
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2005, 09:29:04 PM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
I think it is clear, I have answered all your questions. The fact that they are not answered to your satisfaction is not my problem. They were answered with a scientific basis.  Its interesting that the webiste you quoted me was a government website.


I didn't ask for bludgeon answers. I asked for reasoning. I'm sorry that wasn't clear enough.

I don't care that sticks burn because I put a lit match next to it though it helps. Telling why they burn using on an atomic level - now that's what we all want here. So don't use answers like the fired match got close to the stick, the fire made the stick become hotter until it burned, the stick lost more moister, etc.

This isn't faith in the invisible minus gravity and it's theoried gravitons. This is supposed to be science.

Please explain how your answer work using information that fits into experiments or this is all just a simple work of philosophy. I know that you can only explain the world to a certain extent. It happens. I'll be responding to your future post(s) to point out where I think we need more insight.

?

6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2005, 12:57:45 PM »
Alright, that's actually just stupid.  Bullhorn, I'm going to take a page out of Lykos's book and dissect your disgustingly inadequate answers one by one, and explain to you why they aren't answers at all, or why they are woefully wrong.

Quote
Question: Why are there time zones? Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time?

Answer: I donít know why there are time zones, that was created my man, as to the question of why there is day and night. That question, I will have to more research in depth. One could assume that they were created to help business.

Alright, while this is a valid answer as to why there are timezones, you're actually just avoiding the actualy question which is: Why does the sun to be in different positions depending on where you are on the planet, and why do all these places experience the same perception of the spatial positioning of the sun and different times?

Quote
Question: Why is it that as you move away from a tall structure its top disappears first?

Answer: I assume it has to do with the same principal when you move away from an object it gets smaller

Firstly, you can't tell me what you assume, because I can tell you I know it's because the earth is round.  And the principal by which an object gets smaller as you move away from it is called distance, Bullhorn,  spatial awareness, that's why they get smaller.  It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with why as you move away from a tall structure its top disappears first.

Quote
Question: Why is it that when you look out into the ocean the horizon appears curved?


Answer: I assume it has to do with the refraction of the water

Sadly, this is actually you most sensible answer, but still false, the principal of water refraction is just that, water refracts light, it doesn't bend it, at least not when it's reflected back from the water, and in any case, the water level of the ocean is level, even according to your ridiculous flat-earth theory, and so all the water would refract the light evenly, so there would be no curve.  So we see that simply by your own logic you are proven false.

Quote
Question: Why is it not possible to see the Washington Monument from the top of the Empire State Building with binoculars

Answer: The answer would be atmosphere dust and fog similar to a foggy day

No.  Just no.  See then your vision would simply stop, and you'd see an opaque substance, like you do on a foggy day.  You know that grey stuff you see?  It's fog.  But that's not what you see when you stand on the empire state building, you see a horizon, where the land meet the sky.

Quote
Question: I see satellites up in the sky at night. How would they be able to orbit a flat Earth?


Answer: How do you know they are satellites?

Actually, this is a fairly valid point, but all you're doing is answering a question with another question.  But I get your meaning, I can't prove that there are satelites orbiting our earth.  However, I'm going to then ask you what those things I see flying through the sky at nigt are.  Note that you also have to explain why they would pass through the same path every night at the same time, and why they flash rythmically.  And don't you dare say aliens, because every world government has publically denied the existance of aliens, and your entire theory hinges on world governments being able to cover virtually everything up without any problems.

Quote
You see these answers can all be explained by Occams razor. They are the most simple explanations to the problems.

No, no they can't and they aren't, and as I poimted out earlier, this is an overapplication of Ockham's Razor, as it doesn't fulfilled the criteria for Ockham's Razor to be apllied.  Which was actually the point I was trying to make in the first place, that you overapplied Ockham's razor in another discussion, so your point was invalid.  But apparently that went way over your head.

There, are you happy now?  I've rendered all of you "answers" invalid, if you can't disprove these, or fail to, you are actually wrong, and can just shut the hell up, because if you can't explain these phenomena in terms that would make sense in a flat earth, a flat earth cannot exist, as these phenomena do occur.

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Mountain of evidence
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2006, 04:46:45 PM »
Bullhorn said
Quote
Question: Why are there time zones? Why is it that some areas experience night time while some experience day time?

Answer: I donít know why there are time zones, that was created my man, as to the question of why there is day and night. That question, I will have to more research in depth. One could assume that they were created to help business.


Well while 6string is right and bullhorn is dodging the issue I felt I should point out the history of time zones just to be safe. This article will illustrate that time zones are a man made standardisation caused by a pre existing natural phenomenon. Man did not creat time zones to make the sun be at different places in the sky at different places on the ROUND earth. They were created due to the fact that  the sun is at different places in the sky at different places on the ROUND earth and that this caused confusion.

Quote
Time Zone, any of 24 geographic areas into which the earth is divided for the purpose of maintaining a standard time system (see Time). Clocks within a given time zone are set to the same time, which is generally one hour later than the zone immediately to the west. Each time zone is defined by its distance east or west of Greenwich, England.

Until the late 1800s most towns and cities set clocks based upon the rising and setting of the sun. Because of the earthís rotation, dawn and dusk occur at different times at different places, but time differences between distant locations were barely noticeable because of long travel times and the lack of long-distance communications.

With the growth of rapid locomotive travel and long-distance telegraph communications during the 1830s, schedule and message conflicts began to arise. For example, because each train station set its own clock, it was difficult to coordinate train schedules. In the 1870s American railroads maintained 50 different time zones. Technology had created a need for a unified time-keeping system.

Cleveland Abbe, an American meteorologist, developed a system of weather reporting and forecasting using the telegraph to share information between weather stations. In order to compile his information, Abbe required a time-keeping system that was consistent between the stations. To accomplish this he divided the United States into four standard time zones. In 1883 Abbe convinced North American railroad companies to adopt his time zone system. In 1884 Britain, which had already adopted its own standard time system for England, Scotland, and Wales, helped gather international consensus for global time zones.

Since the earth rotates 15 degrees of longitude per hour, the earthís 360 degrees were divided into 24 zones, each measuring about 15 degrees in width. The 0į longitude line, or meridian, was defined as a line running through the old Greenwich Observatory in Greenwich, England. Time in each of the 12 zones east of Greenwich increases one hour for each zone. Time in each of the 12 zones to the west of Greenwich decreases by one hour. The International Date Line lies at the 180į meridian on the opposite side of the earth from Greenwich and divides the eastern and western time zones. The time difference between each side of the International Date Line is 24 hours. Thus, a traveler heading west across the date line loses one day while a traveler headed east gains a day.

Major variations in time zone boundaries exist to follow physical, geographical, and political boundaries and to avoid bisecting highly populated areas. The state of Georgia, for example, was originally divided into two time zones; the boundary was subsequently moved west to run along the Alabama-Georgia border. China, which spans about 50 degrees of longitude, observes a single time zone based upon the time in the eastern part of the country. Guyana, Liberia, Mongolia, and Saudi Arabia still use their own local time systems. The International Date Line bends around the Bering Strait so that all of eastern Russia lies within the same dayís time. Under the 1966 Uniform Time Act, the Department of Transportation administers and adjusts time zones within the United States.

The time in any given time zone or country may shift by one hour for certain periods of the year to gain maximum daylight hours and balance these hours from morning to evening. One such system is Daylight Savings Time in the United States.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

If you claim the above is propaganda you still cant discount the main point which is that time  the sun be at different places in the sky at different places on the orund earth.
Explain the atmospheric effects that cause this fully and give me and experiment I can do that proves the principles you use to explain them OR shut the hell up
An enraged
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom